Uncle Sam Will Pay $450 Billion This Year Just to Cover Interest on National Debt

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=40861

A November Treasury Department report states that the interest payment on the federal debt for Fiscal Year 2009 will be about $450 billion, making it the fourth largest expense in the federal budget behind Medicare-Medicaid, Social Security and defense spending.

The federal fiscal year runs from Oct. 1 through Sept. 30. The Treasury Department report presents the budget estimates for the full fiscal year 2009, which the interest payment and federal department budget projections are based upon.

If President-elect Barack Obama and the Democratic congressional leadership enact a proposed $1 trillion stimulus plan in early 2009, it could add about $50 billion to those annual interest payments, budget experts told CNSNews.com on Monday.

According to the Treasury Department report, released on Dec. 10, the federal government expects to pay $449,070,000.00 in interest on Treasury debt securities for FY 2009.

The Health and Human Services budget, which includes Medicare and Medicaid, will cost $739,241,000.00 for the fiscal year; Social Security Administration, $699,976,000.00; and the Defense Department-Military budget, $656,722,000.00. (Estimates by the White House’s Office of Management and Budget are nearly identical.)

Chris Edwards, director of tax policy studies at the libertarian Cato Institute, told CNSNews.com on Monday that the money paid by the Treasury for interest is different than other expenditures, because it does not directly benefit taxpayers.

“It represents money that can’t be used for tax reduction or spending programs,” said Edwards.

If the Obama administration is able to enact a $1 trillion stimulus package, taxpayers can expect to see $50 billion added to the annual payment, because the federal government usually borrows at an interest rate of about 5 percent, said Edwards and Brian Riedel, the latter who is a senior policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation.

The Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday that Obama's team is considering a stimulus package for the faltering U.S. economy that could reach $1 trillion over two years.

“The fact that we are borrowing a trillion dollars means that someone has to pay that back,” said Edwards. “The economic fact is that while Americans are consuming a trillion more in stuff this year, people in later years will have to pay for it.”

FEDERAL RESERVE BANK SCAM

http://www.fdrs.org/federal_reserve_owners.html

Have you ever wondered who the Federal Reserve owners are?

The first thing to understand is that even though the Fed's name makes it sound like a government organization, it's not.

Take a peek in your phone book. Instead of being listed in the government pages, the Federal Reserve is listed right next to another private corporation in the business section called Federal Express.

That's right, the Fed is actually a private corporation run in secret by a few high level international bankers.

FEDERAL RESERVE OWNERS ARE THE BANKSTERS
Can we nail down who is in this little group of powerful Federal Reserve owners?

Here's a look into who was involved in setting up the Federal Reserve in 1913.

Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin (Rothschild and world economy)
Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris
Israel Moses Sieff Banks of Italy
Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
Lehman Brothers Bank of New York
Goldman Sachs Bank of New York
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (Controlled By the Rockefeller Family Tree)

Uncle Sam better start listening to the Dave Ramsey Show

Preserved due to ignorance

cosmiverse said: FEDERAL RESERVE BANK SCAM

http://www.fdrs.org/federal_reserve_owners.html

Have you ever wondered who the Federal Reserve owners are?

The first thing to understand is that even though the Fed's name makes it sound like a government organization, it's not.

Take a peek in your phone book. Instead of being listed in the government pages, the Federal Reserve is listed right next to another private corporation in the business section called Federal Express.

That's right, the Fed is actually a private corporation run in secret by a few high level international bankers.

FEDERAL RESERVE OWNERS ARE THE BANKSTERS
Can we nail down who is in this little group of powerful Federal Reserve owners?

Here's a look into who was involved in setting up the Federal Reserve in 1913.

Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin (Rothschild and world economy)
Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris
Israel Moses Sieff Banks of Italy
Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
Lehman Brothers Bank of New York
Goldman Sachs Bank of New York
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (Controlled By the Rockefeller Family Tree)

Now lets look at Wikipedia and see what we can find on the fed. usually Wikipedia is a better source of information than the tin-foil hat sites frequented by the tin-foil hat loving users who post this stuff...

Fed Reserve
Federal Reserve Banks

The Federal Reserve System (also the Federal Reserve; informally The Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. Created in 1913 by the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act, it is a quasi-public (government entity with private components) banking system that comprises (1) the presidentially appointed Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System in Washington, D.C.; (2) the Federal Open Market Committee; (3) twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation acting as fiscal agents for the U.S. Treasury, each with its own nine-member board of directors; (4) numerous private U.S. member banks, which subscribe to required amounts of non-transferable stock in their regional Federal Reserve Banks; and (5) various advisory councils. As of February 2006, Ben Bernanke serves as the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System.

There are 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks (not to be confused with the "member banks") with 25 branches, which serve as the operating arms of the system. Each Federal Reserve Bank is subject to oversight by a Board of Governors. Each Federal Reserve Bank has a board of directors, whose members work closely with their Reserve Bank president to provide grassroots economic information and input on management and monetary policy decisions. These boards are drawn from the general public and the banking community and oversee the activities of the organization. They also appoint the presidents of the Reserve Banks, subject to the approval of the Board of Governors. Reserve Bank boards consist of nine members: six serving as representatives of nonbanking enterprises and the public (nonbankers) and three as representatives of banking. Each Federal Reserve branch office has its own board of directors, composed of three to seven members, that provides vital information concerning the regional economy.

When we couldn't repay our debt, we can nuke our creditor if they dare to collect the debt .

.....

if they nuke us back too, then we help solve the world's over population problem

OTOH, now people are lending us money at 0%, so that cuts the interest payments a bit.

I can't believe how many people come out of the woodwork to defend the fed. Seriously, what is it you like more manipulated soaring bubbles or the devastating crashing? Or is it the ubiquitous devaluation of your savings and wages? Maybe it's the never ending cycles of debt that have ensnared most people and governments on all levels?

And shut up that with the myth that the government has any control or oversight as to the behavior of the fed... The fed is refusing to disclose where they lent 2 TRILLION DOLLARS.. How's that for transparency and accountability? Just ask Greenspan, the fed does not answer to anyone but itself. END THE FED.

I think that the $450 billion in interest is tax-deductable

I declare federal bankruptcy!
There that takes care of that, what's next?

Fact is, the Federal Reserve IS private, charges the US billion$ to borrow it's own money, & creates $ out of thin air. These are facts I only recently learned and important info the fatwallet community needs to know. Here's the Consumer Price Index (CPI) 1800 to present. Ask yourself, why was there no virtually no inflation from 1800 from to 1913 (& tremendous prosperity I might add)? After creation of the FED in 1913 and then moving off the silver/gold standard we've had steady inflation. A 2008 dollar buys about 9 cents worth of an 1800 dollar, amounting to a hidden tax thru inflation.
Educate yourself, here's a few links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV9yDLhKbjg
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2002/cr091002b.htm
http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin2.htm
http://endthefed.us/
Thankfully someone is buying T-Bills, otherwise the whole house of paper dollars might collapse.

JTFH said: I can't believe how many people come out of the woodwork to defend the fed. Seriously, what is it you like more manipulated soaring bubbles or the devastating crashing? Or is it the ubiquitous devaluation of your savings and wages?Nonsense. Have you looked at volatility or studied the lack of economic progress made by this country (and the world, for that matter) before the Federal Reserve came to be? The economy of the 1800s was much closer to the economy of 2000 BC than the economy of today (source), and it was marked by extreme swings between bust and boom. You whine about the "devaluation" of the dollar, yet ignore that our wages and income have grown faster than inflation.

I'll take the relative stability and predictable inflation that the Fed has brought any day, thankyouverymuch.

Nationwide said: Fact is, the Federal Reserve IS private, charges the US billion$ to borrow it's own money, & creates $ out of thin air.You forgot to mention that the Fed returns all profit to the Treasury every year. THOSE BASTARDS!
These are facts I only recently learned and important info the fatwallet community needs to know.Let me guess- you stumbled across some blogs and videos on youtube and got all huffy thinking you now have some special inside insight into our monetary policy?
Here's the Consumer Price Index (CPI) 1800 to present.Once again, you are ignoring wages. CPI alone is pretty meaningless.
Ask yourself, why was there no virtually no inflation from 1800 from to 1913 (& tremendous prosperity I might add)?Tremendous prosperity? Surely you jest. Real US GDP per capita (in 2000 dollars) grew from ~$1200 to $4900 between 1800 and 1900 (a factor of 4x). In 2007, real GDP per capita (again, 2000 dollars) was $38k- a factor of close to 10x from 1900 (source). The United States did not become a major player in the global economy until WWI, and didn't become an economic superpower until after WWII.
After creation of the FED in 1913 and then moving off the silver/gold standard we've had steady inflation. A 2008 dollar buys about 9 cents worth of an 1800 dollar, amounting to a hidden tax thru inflation.Good thing our income has grown by even more than that. Phew.

xmatrikx said: cosmiverse said: FEDERAL RESERVE BANK SCAM

http://www.fdrs.org/federal_reserve_owners.html

Have you ever wondered who the Federal Reserve owners are?

The first thing to understand is that even though the Fed's name makes it sound like a government organization, it's not.

Take a peek in your phone book. Instead of being listed in the government pages, the Federal Reserve is listed right next to another private corporation in the business section called Federal Express.

That's right, the Fed is actually a private corporation run in secret by a few high level international bankers.

FEDERAL RESERVE OWNERS ARE THE BANKSTERS
Can we nail down who is in this little group of powerful Federal Reserve owners?

Here's a look into who was involved in setting up the Federal Reserve in 1913.

Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin (Rothschild and world economy)
Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris
Israel Moses Sieff Banks of Italy
Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
Lehman Brothers Bank of New York
Goldman Sachs Bank of New York
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (Controlled By the Rockefeller Family Tree)

I don't understand that when someone posts something like this, people jump on them and call them stupid? The people who believe that the fed isnt' corrupt are the real sheeple. And the fact that the same banks who setup the fed back in 1913, are now some of the banks who recieved billions in federal aid, being controlled by an ex-ceo of goldman sachs... Ok people, keep your blinders on.

You forgot Colonel Sanders

click here

Bankgeek said: I might add that some of the things the Feds buy will last 20 or maybe 50 years. So why should it be paid for in just one year? If a building or maybe a weapon system--whatever--is going to last 5 years or 50 than why should we have to pay for it in just one year? It should be financed over its useful life.

I might add that some of the things we buy will last 2 or maybe 5 years. So why should it be paid for in just one year? If a LCD TV or maybe a car--whatever--is going to last 2 years or 5 than why should we have to pay for it in just one year? It should be financed over its useful life.

As a casual observer of the tinfoil hat crowd (hey, everyone has their hobbies), the whole "OMGWTFBBQ THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS TEH EVIL!!!!!111" comes into vogue every single recession or economic slump. People want to explain the world around them and why they are not happy in life. At its core its an attempt to explain a very complex world where people cannot process the fact that the economy is mostly a result of billions of individual actors pursuing their own self interests. This realistic view of the world is too complex and hard to understand. Instead, it is much easier to process a world view where you believe that a selected few individuals conspire to control world events - always to the detriment of the population - which easily explains why you are not happy with where you are in life. That way, your life circumstances are not your fault but the product of a evil global cabal who is conspiring against you and everyone else. If you go back 200 years you could take the federal reserve conspiracy mythology and replace the word "federal reserve" with "the jews" and get almost the exact same theory.

By the way, to the OP: I never knew that Federal Express had a board of directors appointed by the government! Or did you forget to research that and educate yourself on the facts before buying conspiracy theory whole sale? The federal reserve is not a private bank, it is a quasi-public institution because its board is appointed by the government.

If anyone wants to entertain themselves, that site the OP links to is quite hilarious (and a bit sad, too). Its a for profit debt collection scam that is preying on conspiracy theorists - which as a business model is very wise, since people who believe this stuff are pretty gullible to begin with. My favorite part:

Tinfoil Hat Site said: The legend of Atlantis plays a big part in the history of the Freemasons. According to the Masons, Atlantis has passed down an ancient mystery called the "Great Plan". The Great Plan is the forming of a World Government, or the modern New World Order. According to the Freemasons, Atlantis was flourishing about 10,000 years before the great Greek civilization. Ten kings, known as the Atlantic League, ruled the land. Around 10,000 B.C., seven of the kings, who presided over the seven islands of Atlantis, decided they would conquer the three kings who ruled over Africa, Europe, and Asia. This angered Zeus to such an extent that he sunk Atlantis into the sea, killing all 60 million of its citizens.

I suppose over the years someone in my lodge forgot to mention that we found Atlantis and were using it to create a New World Order. Oh well, the bi-weekly dinner is worth it even if I somehow never find out about the conspiracy for world domination.

moneyisnteverything said: Good point. Who else would want our debt?Uh, have you checked the treasury market lately?Very soon, we will become a AA rated nation, joining the ranks of Japan, coincidentally the second-biggest economy in the world.Very soon, eh? I love these wild assertions that people throw around like facts...

The problem is the national debt is growing much faster than GDP. If the trend doesn't get reversed, and I am not saying it won't, the US will lose the ability to borrow in its own currency.

National debt is supposed to increase in a recession via deficit spending, and reduce in good times from budget surplus. GWB inherited a surplus in 2000. Instead of paying down the debt, he used the surplus and borrowed whole bunch more money to pay for the tax cuts and more spending. Imo most of his stimulus went to the real estate bubble, i.e., squandered.

theboogeyman said: I have a question for the economincs experts here. Why is the national debt bad or even important? I understand that the US treasury sells bonds to finance deficit spending. If the economy keeps growing faster than the debt and productivity keeps rising (along with wages), can't the government just keep rolling over the debt to the next generation of bond holders.

Our debt can be rolled over into infinity, we never have to repay it. Also the repayment of debt in itself is contractionary.

There are some morons in the forum who even dont know what is a federal reserve is ?

I am guessing the morons defending the federal reserve work for them or part of their lobby.

No wonder our economy is in bad shape.

please watch the video what a congressman has to say about this

Link

cosmiverse said: There are some morons in the forum who even dont know what is a federal reserve is ?

No wonder our economy is in bad shape.

please watch the video what a congressman has to say about this

Link

didn't you Ron Paul guys figure out already that the election is over and you were overwhelmingly rejected by the American people? or are you getting ready to worm up again in a few years in a different party? give it a rest ... Obama is the president-elect

Nationwide said: cheezedawg said: Because the Federal Reserve returns most of that back to the Treasury?

By the way, the scene has changed A LOT over the past year. Here is an interesting overview of the Fed's latest release of their balance sheet.No, that's miniscule. But yes that's a better econbrowser link. Look, whoever owns the govt securities receives the interest. When government borrows more money, it has the fed create money in return for US securities (bonds,T-Bills). But who gets these securities? Well other countries & individuals purchase some, which I have no problem with (aside from the huge amount of borrowing) but most of them go the PRIVATE CENTRAL BANKS. They're receiving the interest payments. They are receiving our tax payments! They are profiting off the American worker. This is the unnecessary piece. The 1984 Grace Commission report states: "With two-thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government."The fact the govt has to issue bonds (because it overspends its revenues) could be a bad thing. But it makes absolutely no difference who owns the bonds and collects the interest payments after they are issued.
Yes, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve are appointed by the president (some say he's handed a list of approved picks), but look at where all these people come from, the top banks & investment houses. Talk about putting foxes in charge of the henhouse! There's no 'governing' going on here - this is Wall Street looking out for it's own.
The Federal Reserve's Board of Governors Incestuous RelationsHmmm. Since the Fed serves a BANKING function, I guess it would be better to load up the Board of Governors with stock boys and gas station attendants. Who the hell do you think are the best candidates for a top BANKING position, if not people with high-level BANKING experience?