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                               Limits         Fees    Unwithdrawn
Bank/FI           # Linked   Min    Max      Out  In   Trial Dep    Days  Notes               
Bank of America       ?       $10    ?       $3   $0       Y         ?
Charles Schwab        -       $0     ?       $0   $0       Y         ?
Chase                 ?       $0     ?       $3   $0       N         ?
GMAC                  -       $0     ?       $0   $0       Y         1
ING Direct            ?       $0     ?       $0   $0       Y         ?
Key Bank              -       ?      ?       $0   $0       Y         ?
M&T                   -       $0     ?       $0   $0       Y         ?
PayPal                ?       $0     ?       $0   $0       Y         ?     $25 min for recurring transfers
TD Ameritrade         5       $0     ?       $0   $0       ?         ?
Wachovia              ?       $10    ?       $3   $0       N         ?
WaMu                  5       $1     ?       $0   $0       N         ?


Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
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SegaRob (May. 08, 2010 @ 9:28p) |

I updated the entry for Alliant to reflect that they changed their ACH system and it now only takes 1 day instead of 2.

ThePessimist (May. 21, 2010 @ 1:44p) |

Raised the limit for HSBC.

bobbyvescolives (May. 22, 2010 @ 12:25a) |

PLEASE UPDATE !

Column explanations:
Debit days: how long it takes for funds to be debited from source account
Post days: how long it takes for funds to be credited to destination account
(These are both measured from the day the transfer is initiated. Unless otherwise specified, this is measured in business days, meaning a transfer over a weekend will take two days longer.)
Keep trial deposit: Do you get to keep money deposited when you establish a linked account? Y=yes, N=deposits are withdrawn back, N/A means no trial deposit.

                                          Outgoing       Incoming       Keep
                              Limits          Debit Post     Debit Post Trial   
Bank/FI           # Linked Min     Max    Fee Days  Days Fee Days  Days Dep   Notes               
Alliant Credit Union    ?  $0     $10k    $0  0     1    $0   1     1    N    Recurring transfers limited to 99 times.
Ally                    ?  $0     ?       $0  0     2    $0   2     1    Y    $10 fee after 1st 6
American_Express        3  $1     $250K   $0  0     1    $0   1     0    ?    6 days hold on all deposit.
Bank of America         ?  $10    ?       $3  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    Y    Can be approved for overnight
Bank of the West        ?                                                N
BECU                    ?  $0     $2000   $0  1     3    $0   ?     ?    Y    $2000 daily limit per account, $5000 monthly
Chase                   25 $0     $10k    $3  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    N
Chesapeake Bank         3  $0     $50k    $0  1     2    $0   1     1    Y    Inbound limit is $100k. May be up to 11 days hold for deposit over 5k. 
Citibank                -  $10    ?       $0  ?     3    $0   ?     3    Y
Citizens Bank (RBS)     ?  $0     ?       $3  1     ?    $0   ?     ?    ?         
CNBBankDirect           1  ?0     $1MM    $0  2     2    $0   2     2    N
Coulee                  -  $0     N/A     $0  1     1    $0   1     1   N/A   No online interface 
DiscoverBank            ?
E*Trade                50  $0     $100k   $0  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    Y    External accts remain in system even when deleted; Bad business practices;  Will close your account without warning causing your checks to bounce
Emigrant Direct         2  ?      ?       ?   ?     ?    ?    ?     ?    ?    Reverses ACH pulls from external bank.
EverBank	       99  $0     $15K    $0  1     5    $0   ?     ?    N
Fidelity Investments    ?  $10    $100K   $0  0     1    $0   1     0   N/A   Available immediately, but sweeps to MMF until next day. No recurring.
Flagstar                ?   ?     $2k     $0  1     3    $0   ?     ?    ?    Daily limit in:2k & out:15K; monthly limit in:5k & out:25K.
HSBC                    ?  $10    $350k   $0  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    N    4MM per month inbound or outbound
Incredible              3  $1     $200k   $0  0     1    $0   1     1    Y    Daily limit in: $200k, out: $10k
ING Direct              3  $0     ?       $0  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    Y
Key Bank                -  $1     ?       $0  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    N
M&T                     -  $0     ?       $0  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    Y
OnBank                  ?  $0     $20k    $0  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    N
Options Express         ?  $0     ?       $0  0     1    $0   ?     ?    N    No recurring tx option
PayPal                  ?  $0     ?       $0  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    Y    $25 min for recurring
PenFed                  ?  $0     ?       $0  0     2    $0   0     2    Y    Regular Share account reverses ACH pulls from external account.; incoming only
PNC                     ?  $0     $2000   $0  1     3    $0   ?     ?    N    $2K daily/$5K monthly/3-day hold between transfers
ProvidentNJDirect       ?  $0     ?       $0  ?     ?    $0   1     1    N
Schwab Brokerage        -  $1     $100K   $0  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    Y    Call for recurring tx, limit 1 recurring tx per linked account; Requires paper sign-up for each linked acct
TD Ameritrade           5  $0     ?       $0  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    N    Max frequency is bi-weekly
USAA                    ?  $1     ?       $0  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    Y    Requires paper sign-up for each linked acct
Wachovia                ?  $10    ?       $3  ?     ?    $0   ?     ?    N    Merged into Wells Fargo

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The info there is pretty limited..

Lots of info in the FW archives including:
ACH Push and Pull Thread by burgerwars
Which High Yield Savings Accounts Have FAST ACH transfers? by somdave2005

random stuff about ACH:
Greg Thatcher's List of Bank Routing Numbers

More info in the push/pull thread, but slightly outdated. Is anyone else interested in maintaining a record of these in a neat format?

If someone does assemble a list, it'd be great if it also listed how long it takes to do push and pull for each bank.

ThePessimist said: If someone does assemble a list, it'd be great if it also listed how long it takes to do push and pull for each bank.
Agreed. That's the most important info for me actually.

I also would suggest putting the list in the Quick Summary so it can be updated.

I'm not sure why you need a 'account type' column. For example, Wachovia's checking and savings both offer the same ACH services except for the restrictions that apply to all savings accounts regarding number of transactions per month.

beethovengirl said: ThePessimist said: If someone does assemble a list, it'd be great if it also listed how long it takes to do push and pull for each bank.
Agreed. That's the most important info for me actually.

I also would suggest putting the list in the Quick Summary so it can be updated.


Ditto.

sushiosushi said: I'm not sure why you need a 'account type' column. For example, Wachovia's checking and savings both offer the same ACH services except for the restrictions that apply to all savings accounts regarding number of transactions per month.Well, there are differences in some cases. Chase for instance has fee-free transfers for their Premier Platinum accounts, but there's a $3 fee for the basic account. Would you prefer to leave out the account type and have people annotate in the "Notes" column?

I'm happy to put the table in the QuickSummary and I'm open to suggestions about what columns of info to add. It'd be great if people could fill in info for whatever they know. Let's finalize the organization and then I'll copy the table to the QS.

Citibank is also pretty liberal. 0 in, 0 out for transfers and no minimum required to maintain.

NorthStar2020 said: Citibank is also pretty liberal. 0 in, 0 out for transfers and no minimum required to maintain.The "minimum amount" is minimum amount required to transfer, not to maintain the account.

You should also have a column for maximum - either per transaction, per day, per month. Some banks are very restrictive.

By now you have enough information, go on and populate the table to the QS...I wish I would know how to do it.

OK, I put your suggestions into place.

For the trial deposits please indicate if pulled back.

ANightShopper said: For the trial deposits please indicate if pulled back. That's what "unwithdrawn" means (or the opposite of pulled back). Some banks don't even have trial deposits, so I put it as unwithdrawn for banks that do trial deposits and don't withdraw them.

We need definitions of each metric so that values will be accurate and comparisons may be made. For example, the "days" column is ambiguous. It could be used to either denote the number of days of lost interest, the number of days before the transfered funds are available at the destination bank, or the number of days between placing a transfer request and receiving the funds in the destination account. Each of these would yield different numbers. Here are some examples: CNBBankDirect will not allow you to complete a same-day transfer, but the funds arrive in the destination account the same day they are withdrawn from the source account, so there is no lost interest. I've listed this as 0 in the chart but if your definition is time between scheduling the transfer and receiving the funds, that would be inaccurate. Similarly, WaMu only offers transfers on certain days of the week, which means it may be 2-3 days between the time the transfer is scheduled and initiated.

mttatkns said: We need definitions of each metric so that values will be accurate and comparisons may be made. For example, the "days" column is ambiguous. It could be used to either denote the number of days of lost interest, the number of days before the transfered funds are available at the destination bank, or the number of days between placing a transfer request and receiving the funds in the destination account. Each of these would yield different numbers. Here are some examples: CNBBankDirect will not allow you to complete a same-day transfer, but the funds arrive in the destination account the same day they are withdrawn from the source account, so there is no lost interest. I've listed this as 0 in the chart but if your definition is time between scheduling the transfer and receiving the funds, that would be inaccurate. Similarly, WaMu only offers transfers on certain days of the week, which means it may be 2-3 days between the time the transfer is scheduled and initiated.Good point. What should we do? Some banks say they take 3 business days but they debit on day 1 and deposit on day 3. How many days is that? How should we clarify this?

SegaRob said: mttatkns said: We need definitions of each metric so that values will be accurate and comparisons may be made. For example, the "days" column is ambiguous. It could be used to either denote the number of days of lost interest, the number of days before the transfered funds are available at the destination bank, or the number of days between placing a transfer request and receiving the funds in the destination account. Each of these would yield different numbers. Here are some examples: CNBBankDirect will not allow you to complete a same-day transfer, but the funds arrive in the destination account the same day they are withdrawn from the source account, so there is no lost interest. I've listed this as 0 in the chart but if your definition is time between scheduling the transfer and receiving the funds, that would be inaccurate. Similarly, WaMu only offers transfers on certain days of the week, which means it may be 2-3 days between the time the transfer is scheduled and initiated.Good point. What should we do? Some banks say they take 3 business days but they debit on day 1 and deposit on day 3. How many days is that? How should we clarify this?Well, we can have multiple columns (e.g. business days from scheduling immediate transfer to receiving funds in recipient account, business days of lost interest, length of hold after transfer), or you can pick one that best encapsulates your intent. It's your thread so you get to make the decision

mttatkns said: SegaRob said: mttatkns said: We need definitions of each metric so that values will be accurate and comparisons may be made. For example, the "days" column is ambiguous. It could be used to either denote the number of days of lost interest, the number of days before the transfered funds are available at the destination bank, or the number of days between placing a transfer request and receiving the funds in the destination account. Each of these would yield different numbers. Here are some examples: CNBBankDirect will not allow you to complete a same-day transfer, but the funds arrive in the destination account the same day they are withdrawn from the source account, so there is no lost interest. I've listed this as 0 in the chart but if your definition is time between scheduling the transfer and receiving the funds, that would be inaccurate. Similarly, WaMu only offers transfers on certain days of the week, which means it may be 2-3 days between the time the transfer is scheduled and initiated.Good point. What should we do? Some banks say they take 3 business days but they debit on day 1 and deposit on day 3. How many days is that? How should we clarify this?Well, we can have multiple columns (e.g. business days from scheduling immediate transfer to receiving funds in recipient account, business days of lost interest, length of hold after transfer), or you can pick one that best encapsulates your intent. It's your thread so you get to make the decision The number of days doesn't really matter to me for my purposes. But somebody suggested it so I added it in for completeness.

I've alerted the mods, requesting this thread be made sticky. Please join me!

SegaRob said: ANightShopper said: For the trial deposits please indicate if pulled back. That's what "unwithdrawn" means (or the opposite of pulled back). Some banks don't even have trial deposits, so I put it as unwithdrawn for banks that do trial deposits and don't withdraw them.Oh, I noticed that extra line now. Thanks a lot. It would probable easier to encode the letters in the coloumn themselves as? for example, UW - for unwithdrawn, W - for withdrawn, N - service not offered.

I just did a major reformatting of the table. The biggest change is that I added columns for "post days" and "debit days" for both incoming and outgoing transfers. "Debit days" indicates how many days it is between when you request a transaction and the funds are debited from the source account. Similarly, "Post days" indicates how many days it takes between requesting a transaction and seeing the funds post to the destination account. The difference between these is the amount of lost (or, rarely, gained) interest.

Good work!!

Suggest a column for cut-off time (after which the transfer is treated as scheduled the next business day).

Someone changed Wachovia to keep trial dep, but they withdraw it so I changed it back.

HSBC pulls back the trial deposit. I just added a new account last night and they told me to watch for the credit as well as debit.

billrubin said: HSBC pulls back the trial deposit. I just added a new account last night and they told me to watch for the credit as well as debit.I've updated it per your comment.

SegaRob said: Someone changed Wachovia to keep trial dep, but they withdraw it so I changed it back.

Wachovia didn't take back my trial deposit when I linked an external account to my already opened account.

Well, they specifically say they withdraw it so either they are lying or there was some glitch that they didn't take them back for you. I setup a trial deposit with them today so if I get the same result as you, I'll change it back.

great thread! green for you!

johnnybs said: SegaRob said: Someone changed Wachovia to keep trial dep, but they withdraw it so I changed it back.

Wachovia didn't take back my trial deposit when I linked an external account to my already opened account.
I just confirmed that they DO withdraw the trial deposit like they say they do. It must have been a glitch for you or something.

FNBO push minimum $10. Don't know how much $ for 'pull' require.

Fidelity does have a $100K limit for transfers initiated on their web site, but if you call up and talk to a customer service representative they can set up a transfer for a lot more than that. Last time I checked it was $500K per transaction, and they can do multiple transactions to get past even that limit.

ThePessimist said: I just did a major reformatting of the table. The biggest change is that I added columns for "post days" and "debit days" for both incoming and outgoing transfers. "Debit days" indicates how many days it is between when you request a transaction and the funds are debited from the source account. Similarly, "Post days" indicates how many days it takes between requesting a transaction and seeing the funds post to the destination account. The difference between these is the amount of lost (or, rarely, gained) interest.There's still an ambiguity about the post date. Are we counting when the transaction appears in the account or when the funds become available? I think the latter is more useful, but the former is easier to track and document.

$10 minimum transfer at fidelity. No limit on linked accounts (as far as I can tell). They don't use trial deposits- they prenote, instead.

Prenote process takes about ten days, and when you add a new account you can't use it until the prenote completes.

keybank has $1 minimum and withdraws the trial deposit eventually. QS updated.

The one thing I hate about ING and their ACH set up, is that it doesn't show scheduled pull/push at all. Unless, I've miserably failed to see this feature on their website?

Skipping 83 Messages...
Raised the limit for HSBC.



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