Codename47 vs. National Credit Solutions

Around March I pull my credit report and I notice my score has dropped 91 points on Experian. I have gone from a 793 to a 702.

Under Collection Accounts I now have 1 new record. The company is NCS. If you do a search on google you will find multiple people who this happened to. LINK

I have never been contacted by this company. I find some templates online and send them my first letter. They balk and send me a standard form letter saying here is my notice that I owe them money.

The letter they mail me says I owed BMG $20 but with interest and fees I now owe $173.

The account has now changed from closed on my credit report to "Derogatory." I shoot them another template letter and get a second letter giving me verification of the debt saying who the account is from, who owns it and that I am in collections with NCS and to call so and so at extension 303. The company is ignoring these templates I have found online, probably because they see them everyday....

Now that I feel I have only have a few options left
Take the hit, keep sending template letters, pay them or send codename47 a PM asking for some friendly advice.

I decide on the PM.

He replies and steers me in the right direction. I type up the following letter to NCS based on his advice.

... said: To Whom It May Concern: This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice sent to me on 4/20/09. I will need to see the contract that I signed with BMG or you saying I am responsble for this debt. And the terms and conditions associated with this debt. I am requesting this based on you reporting the debt. I am enacting the FDCPA, Rosenthal debt collection act, and Fair Debt collection practices acts. National Credit Solutions needs to prove I owe this debt. At this time I am rejecting your validation as insufficient.

On may 28, 2009 I received a letter saying NCS has closed my file since the do not own this account and they are remitting it back to their client for their further review. In addition, NCS is ceasing to collect on this acct and will request that the credit bereaus be updated accordingly.

Thanks codename47!

I love these stories. Delicious.

Green for CN47!

OP, it might benefit some members if you will fully paste the letter you sent them (removign personal info of course). otherwise I'm afraid CN47 will be peppered with PM's ))

Much green! I'm currently in the midst of a dispute. CA could not identify my file and had me send my SSN. I'll post back here if anything interesting happens.

OP -- that's great, but you didn't say whether you really owed that $20 or not...

Also I wonder if your mention of FDCPA twice in the request makes it any stronger. j/k.

Wow, this has to be one of the quickest green thread's I've seen, 90 minutes and already +25!

It's interesting that CN47's template worked but not the template you picked up from creditinfocenter.com. The key extra phrase in CN47's template seems to be the reference to the "Rosenthal act". Since the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act is federal and the Rosenthal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act is for California, it seems that the collection agency is more concerned about the California statute.
Link

jason745 said: CrazierRus said: Green for CN47!

OP, it might benefit some members if you will fully paste the letter you sent them (removign personal info of course). otherwise I'm afraid CN47 will be peppered with PM's ))

Here is the actual letter (via certified mail) I sent them:

My Name
My Address
------------------------------
Company Name
Address
------------------------------

Date:
------------------------------
Re: Acct # xxxxx
------------------------------

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice sent to me on 4/20/09.

I will need to see the contract that I signed with BMG or you saying I am responsble for this debt.
And the terms and conditions associated with this debt.

I am requesting this based on you reporting the debt. I am enacting the FDCPA, Rosenthal
debt collection act, and Fair Debt collection practices acts.

National Credit Solutions needs to prove I owe this debt.

At this time I am rejecting your validation as insufficient.


Best Regards,

Name


For comparison purposes. Here is one of the templates that I found online prior to PM CN47, this was the second letter I sent them. This second letter didn't get me anywhere http://www.creditinfocenter.com/forms/sampleletter9.shtml

The explanation for why OP's third letter worked is simple.

The first two were obvious templates ripped from the internet. Any idiot can google now-a-days.
The CA took the risk and tried to call bluff on the OP.

The third letter showed that OP was aware of his rights in that it wasn't from a template. This
showed initiative and gave the CA the impression that OP might be willing to move to the lawsuit.

I've read it here a few times that the most effective way to extract a meaningful response was to
actually draft your lawsuit first, then mail them the text of your complaint stating that you are
ready to file that lawsuit, but are waiting for their mandatory response first. Doing so demonstrates
that you are ready to file and aren't afraid to do so.

Technically, OP can still sue the CA for violations as they failed to respond to his legitimate
requests within the required time frame.

pwned

tehlorax said: CN47 ownage is a wonderful thing.

Amen!!

To calculate the amount of punitive damages to ask for in a case against a collection agency run by criminals, you need to figure how much it would take to impact their bottom line enough to get their attention. For punitive damages to be effective, they have to make the agency change their ways, to not be so unethical. If there are 100 million potential victims of their unethical business practices, you would think $100 million would be enough. But, actually, it has to be a lot more than $1 per potential victim. $1 is, from their point of view, a cost of doing business, and their top executives might not even become aware of it. So it should be more like $100, which would in that situation add up to $10 billion. That would have a serious impact on their bottom line, because they have no reasonable prospects of earning significantly more than $100 per potential victim. It would cause them to have meetings, memos, etc., agonizing about what to do to make sure that could never happen again. And that's the exact purpose of punitive damages.

Another advantage of $10 billion in punitive damages is the fatwallet effect. The one where your wallet gets fatter. But, unfortunately, if it gets that fat, you might have to buy a whole new wallet.

Give it some time and before you know it all you'll have to do is mail a short letter:
PM'd CN47.

Here's a form letter that works.. i've used it. Just don't sign your name.

Dear @$$

Re acct:######

I dispute this.

Sincerly,
psuJC

CN47 = a good assest to our FW community. Thanks for your assistance with others. Lucklly I haven't needed to contact him but have apprecated his insight that he has provided for others.

gatzdon said: The explanation for why OP's third letter worked is simple.

The first two were obvious templates ripped from the internet. Any idiot can google now-a-days.
The CA took the risk and tried to call bluff on the OP.

The pity thing is that this codename's letter will be treated as a one more template soon

I used to think that this sort of stuff wasn't a big deal, you simply use the FDCPA and you're in good shape.
That's not the case.
I recently got a phone line that is associated with my DSL service - I'm in a rural area and AT&T says the phone line is required.
That line rings off the hook.. Well, OK, several times a day - it's unpublished, on do-not call, and almost all the calls are debt collectors.

I thought "no big deal" - hey, I'll just tell these guys that I'm not the person that they're looking for.
I tried that with a few collectors. Most said they'd take my number off their list (per FDCPA).. I had a few outliers where they wouldn't tell me who they were or what company they represented unless I would identify myself as the debtor.

Unfortunately, the calls kept coming - new companies mostly.
I called one back, again, asking to get my name off the list - I basically had a frank conversation with the "accountant" for that company.
He said that they'd take me off the list, but the company that is owed the debt would simply hire another collector. The skip tracing would be the same and although HIS company couldn't call me anymore, another company would. He said I have basically two choices:

1) Pay the debt.
2) Change my number and hope I have better luck.

The original company being owed the debt can't be identified unless I accept the debt - that is, the collectors cannot release any information about it. No one is violating the FDCPA here, but the end consumer is still being harassed.

dcg9381 said: The original company being owed the debt can't be identified unless I accept the debt - that is, the collectors cannot release any information about it. No one is violating the FDCPA here, but the end consumer is still being harassed.

Whoa. That sounds kinda shaky. Why would anyone agree to pay a debt without knowing who they were repaying?

dcg9381 said: That line rings off the hook.. Well, OK, several times a day - it's unpublished, on do-not call, and almost all the calls are debt collectors.
I'm assuming that you don't want to go through the hassle of getting a new number, or else you would have done it already.

I would try calling the phone company and explaining the problem. You might be able to get them to comp you for Caller ID or a service like Privacy Manager (AT&T's name for it, but the other phone companies have similar services).

dcg9381 said: ThePessimist said:
I'm assuming that you don't want to go through the hassle of getting a new number, or else you would have done it already.

I would try calling the phone company and explaining the problem. You might be able to get them to comp you for Caller ID or a service like Privacy Manager (AT&T's name for it, but the other phone companies have similar services).

I could go through that hassle, but the number is tied to my DSL service. Problems:
1) Disconnecting and reconnecting DSL will cost a good deal of money.
2) Interruption of hosted servers and work access.

I can try your suggestion, thanks...
Better yet, call them and say you are getting harassing calls and would like to change your phone number. They can do this without interrupting your service and likely without extra charges.

CN47 is our AK47.

ViktorK said:

As I understand they have 30 day from judgment date to file appeal.
File - means fill the form, bring it to the court, pay fee, court clerk should enter this in the system, sign and date the form.
They just filled form and sent it to me.

Is this form valid or not? Is it common practice to USA?
I know they still have some time to file it in the court.As long as they mailed you a copy of the appeal, and they filed one with the court, they are ok.
The copy they send you doesn't need to have the court's date stamp on it, as long as they also filed a copy with the court.

If they didn't file it with the clerk, you'll get a default $1,000 judgment as soon as your court's time limit to appeal the original ruling expires. Then, the fun begins.

Right now, just shut up and don't point out their mistakes. If all they did was mail you a copy, you'll get a default judgment.
Remember, don't open your mouth when your opponent is making a mistake.

Personally, I've always enjoyed going after small claims judgments against corporations. The Fedex envelope sure shows up quick when you ask the sheriff to go after their corporate property