The article discussed "hyperopia," the condition of being too farsighted in your thinking about money. Some people have "saver's remorse," the mirror image of buyer's remorse, where they wish they had indulged themselves more.
I've seen this myself. My grandfather's dream was to visit Australia. Being a millionaire, he certainly could have scraped together the money for the trip. Now he's in his 90s and in no shape to go. He'll almost certainly die a millionaire, but one who never made it Down Under.
I was curious how many FWers have suffered saver's remorse. Any good stories?
ThePessimist said: He'll almost certainly die a millionaire, but one who never made it Down Under.
Being a millionaire in his 90s, I'm sure he could find girl to go Down Under with him anytime
Xenth
Member
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 12:02p
My grandmother had the same issue. She was too ill to enjoy her money. We learned to save, but also to enjoy what we had when everyone was healthy and available to enjoy it.
PuckMan93
Member
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 12:02p
My girlfriend takes care of this problem for me.
AZImmortal
Happy Member
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 12:26p
PuckMan93 said: My girlfriend takes care of this problem for me. I hear that.
A relative was a top executive for a large packaged food manufacturer. He'd only chew half a stick of gum at a time because 'every penny adds up'...But then he'd golf 1-3 times a week at very expensive courses. It's all just a matter of what you want to spend your money on.
Some would prefer not to indulge on anything. They ENJOY being cheap. I don't see anything wrong with that.
staci86
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 12:29p
I have two problems with this article.
First, it presumes that saving and enjoying yourself are competing goals, which isn't the case. That is predicated on the belief that one must spend money to enjoy themselves. There are plenty of low cost ways to enjoy yourself and have a great life. If you don't believe me, head to your local public library. Profligate spending only seems necessary due to America's consumer culture and a constant bombardment of advertising and media-inspired instant self-gratification.
Second, it doesn't draw a clear line between the consequences of oversaving and overspending. The oversaver's biggest regrets might be a lack of materialistic opportunities, all the while his housing, food, health care, transportation, and basic comforts are all secure well into the future. By historical standards, having a clean place to live, healthy food to eat, health care, transportation, climate control, and basic convenience items is pretty damn good. By contrast, the overspender is gambling all of life's necessities and the most basic of comforts to live in the here and now under a mentality of unchecked consumerism.
For an article that presents itself as so enlightened, it has failed to grasp the basic concept that big spending only equals happiness in the minds of those who make it that way. Even if somebody does regret not having 30 pair of shoes, that regret might, in that person's mind, be more than balanced out by all that money saved plus decades of compound interest being given to further a good cause.
I have hyperopia, but as discussed in FW threads it can be treated at zennioptical starting at just $8! You save a LOT of money compared to your local optician, and they are good quality so you don't have any remorse over being too frugal when it comes to health issues.
I suffered a bit of this in college. I was penny pinching everything, from cooking to not going out with friends to movies. I had saved 50% of my income, but considering my income at the time wasn't very good at all (I made $600 a month as an intern..), it really wasn't much money.
I regret not going out more, eating out more with roommates and just enjoying the college life instead of penny pinching. Even if I spent all the money I saved throughout college, it's nowhere near 2-3 months of savings from my full-time work.
I'm not saying you should spend every single penny you have, open multiple credit cards, and stay in college forever though -- spend it on things you can afford, and limit the borrowing from credit cards to zero, but take advantage of the float.
Obama4Prez
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 12:35p
For the average family making ~$75k for the rest of their lives, does saving even matter? Let's say they manage to put away $10k/year for 30 years and get 7% consistent returns every single year. They'll have about $1 Million in 2040 to retire on. That will be no where near enough in 2040 (assuming things go forward as they have historically).
So should they just spend the $10k every year to enjoy life, knowing they can't retire anyways? Or do they have the ultimate retirement, kids, with whom they can live when they "retire"? What if your kids don't want you, you don't have any kids, etc...?
Enjoy life when you are young with little money, or when you are old with more money, but too old to really have fun?
bor
Happy Member
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 12:37p
Hyperopia... I know a few of those. They're always holed up at home, and when I do go out with them, their penny pinching becomes quite annoying.
Enjoy life a little, before you become too old. Don't blow all of your cash, but spend wisely, and indulge your friends a bit. If you don't, you may also find that you will have less friends in the end, since you were too cheap to go out for a dinner, a getaway trip, a ball game with them for bonding time.
Obama4Prez said: For the average family making ~$75k for the rest of their lives, does saving even matter? Let's say they manage to put away $10k/year for 30 years and get 7% consistent returns every single year. They'll have about $1 Million in 2040 to retire on. That will be no where near enough in 2040 (assuming things go forward as they have historically).
So should they just spend the $10k every year to enjoy life, knowing they can't retire anyways? Or do they have the ultimate retirement, kids, with whom they can live when they "retire"? What if your kids don't want you, you don't have any kids, etc...?
Enjoy life when you are young with little money, or when you are old with more money, but too old to really have fun?
Then what happens to you when you are that old and no money left? do you depend on your kids to take care of you? I'm assuming at that age you will not be working, or if you are working you aren't making a lot of money, maybe a 30k a year job.
Just ask yourself now how would you feel if you had to care for your parents now. Lets assume you are in your late 40's but had to now take care of both of your parents because they didn't save to "retire"? if you don't like that idea, don't do it to your kids.
ThePessimist
Ancient Member
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 12:50p
staci86 said: First, it presumes that saving and enjoying yourself are competing goals, which isn't the case. That is predicated on the belief that one must spend money to enjoy themselves. There are plenty of low cost ways to enjoy yourself and have a great life. If you don't believe me, head to your local public library. Profligate spending only seems necessary due to America's consumer culture and a constant bombardment of advertising and media-inspired instant self-gratification.
There are certainly people who engage in profligate spending and get very little out of it. My sister and (former) brother-in-law managed to piss away a ton of money buying random stuff that never seemed to make a big difference to their happiness. For example, she upgraded her perfectly good 300 dpi inkjet printer to a 600 dpi one. Of course, a year later, there was a yet better model. That seemed to happen with everything.
On the other hand, I've seen purchases that people really love. When my parents bought their first home, they didn't have enough money left over to furnish the living room. They were saving for a furniture set when they saw a Chagall at an art auction that they loved. They decided they could live without the furniture for another couple of years. To this day, they still love that Chagall, and have no regrets about buying it instead of the furniture. If they'd had hyperopia, they'd never have bought it.
I didn't interpret the article as promoting rampant spending, but rather encouraging people to not deny themselves things that will really matter to them. I think that neither the shopaholics nor the uber-misers are getting all the happiness they could from their money.
I have a friend who is a tenured college professor with a decent income and substantial savings.
He's on a trip right now, and is staying at youth hostels because he's too cheap to splash out for hotels.
That to me is over-frugality.
ppatin
Focused.
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 1:01p
marketingmike said: I have a friend who is a tenured college professor with a decent income and substantial savings.
He's on a trip right now, and is staying at youth hostels because he's too cheap to splash out for hotels.
That to me is over-frugality.
Maybe he enjoys staying in hostels. If you're traveling through Europe that's a great way to meet people along the way. Besides, if he's really enjoying his trip then why spend money for a room that you'll do nothing but sleep in?
Heffer
Member
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 1:04p
Great article. My philosophy has always been I like to make money to point where I don't need to think about it. But the inverse is true too. I don't want to be frugal to point where it constantly takes away my attention from other endeavors.
Agreed, hostels are the way to go...especially if you can find the nicer ones that have decent amenities.
ppatin
Focused.
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 1:10p
Heffer said: Great article. My philosophy has always been I like to make money to point where I don't need to think about it. But the inverse is true too. I don't want to be frugal to point where it constantly takes away my attention from other endeavors.
I think one of the nicest things about being well off (and a goal that I am shooting for) is simply a feeling of security. The knowledge that you could lose your job, contract an expensive illness, crash your car, etc and still be ok financially must be pretty nice.
The article discussed "hyperopia," the condition of being too farsighted in your thinking about money. Some people have "saver's remorse," the mirror image of buyer's remorse, where they wish they had indulged themselves more.
I've seen this myself. My grandfather's dream was to visit Australia. Being a millionaire, he certainly could have scraped together the money for the trip. Now he's in his 90s and in no shape to go. He'll almost certainly die a millionaire, but one who never made it Down Under.
I was curious how many FWers have suffered saver's remorse. Any good stories?
But the great thing about life is for some things, not all things, there are substitutes.
Have a good long talk with granddaddy and see if with a little imagination and his $1,000,000 you two can't think of something to fill the void of him not traveling down under.
It would be a great way to really know the old dude.
ppatin
Focused.
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 1:14p
Obama4Prez said: For the average family making ~$75k for the rest of their lives, does saving even matter? Let's say they manage to put away $10k/year for 30 years and get 7% consistent returns every single year. They'll have about $1 Million in 2040 to retire on. That will be no where near enough in 2040 (assuming things go forward as they have historically).
Isn't the 7% rate of return (I assume you're talking about historical average stock market returns) after inflation?
Edit: Your hypothetical middle class family should also have paid off their mortgage in 30 years. Once you knock out that big expense your living expenses will be much lower.
denbo32 said: Obama4Prez said: For the average family making ~$75k for the rest of their lives, does saving even matter? Let's say they manage to put away $10k/year for 30 years and get 7% consistent returns every single year. They'll have about $1 Million in 2040 to retire on. That will be no where near enough in 2040 (assuming things go forward as they have historically).
So should they just spend the $10k every year to enjoy life, knowing they can't retire anyways? Or do they have the ultimate retirement, kids, with whom they can live when they "retire"? What if your kids don't want you, you don't have any kids, etc...?
Enjoy life when you are young with little money, or when you are old with more money, but too old to really have fun?
Then what happens to you when you are that old and no money left? do you depend on your kids to take care of you?
No, the goverenmennt will help you if you are a deadbeat!
Saving allows you to be able to enjoy things in life. I'm saving for my dreams.Saving allowed me to buy my house.( I love teh fact that I own my own place and can have people over and have an herb garden and can have fresh rosemary all the time) Saving allows me the comfort of not losing my house when I lost my job for a few months. Saving allows me the comfort of not being a burden on those I love. Hopefully some day I will have my house paid for, the savings to buy my sailboat for cash, and can be a help to those I love not a burden on them in my old age. Is that worth being thrify for and clipping coupons, being frugal, and saving money. Darn right it is.
My grandfather used to say...There are no U-Haul trailers behind these hearses. One of these days we'll all need one of these hearses, but not a single person will need to attach a U-Haul trailer to it... Remember that, fact when you are trying to choose what to spend your money on.
I think one needs to find a balance between saving too much and saving too little with it being best to err on the side of saving too much. Saving too little can be really expensive.
tripleB said: I think one needs to find a balance between saving too much and saving too little with it being best to err on the side of saving too much. Saving too little can be really expensive.
I agree. I think one of the best ways to combine that is to set a goal and then save for it and buy the item. I have no problem with not getting banged at Starbucks for $3-5 a drink (not that I would buy Starbucks anyway) if at the end of the year I can use that $450 (50 weeks * 3 trips per week * $3 per drink) to go on vacation for 3 days longer and explore another country.
Try to avoid buying impulsively and before you buy something go through a mental checklist to see if you really want something, is it good for you... etc.
The most damaging part of being too frugal can come from being penny wise and pound foolish. Don't skimp on important things like doctor's visits, vitamins or medicine or safety. Life experience is worth something and saving 50% of a $200 paycheck but missing out on friends and family won't add much to your life when you are making much better money.
Dealguy123
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 2:45p
Like others have said, you just need to find the balance. Also, the #1 most important thing is PERSPECTIVE. I think most of us should be VERY thankful for what we have here in the US. If I was born into a median income family in Zimbabwe, I wouldn't have 90% of the things I have here in the US. I've saved a lot of money over the years, but keeping things in perspective helps keep your desires grounded and in check. We all need to find/do things that make us happy WITHIN our actual means. If I died tomorrow, I would have no real regrets, even though I've never owned a "nice" car, etc. I've travelled a fair amount, enjoyed my time with plenty of friends, go out frequently (I guess this is relative), and have overall had a great life (and I'm not even 30).
The focus on materialism in this country is pretty sad. People are thought to feel better by spending money, rather than doing things. Lord knows, I've learned that buying "stuff" ultimately doesn't make you happy. The novelty of the new stuff wears off, and the desire to buy something else pops up. Now, that doesn't mean you shouldn't spend your money.. just that outright "spending" and material goods shouldn't affect your overall happiness that much (unless you're living like a hermit). I look forward to being able to leave money for my kids/family if possible when I die.
pennsatuckian said: My grandfather used to say...There are no U-Haul trailers behind these hearses. One of these days we'll all need one of these hearses, but not a single person will need to attach a U-Haul trailer to it... Remember that, fact when you are trying to choose what to spend your money on.
Speak for yourself, I'm having everything buried with me like an Egyptian King
speaking of someone who has traveled more than the average american (considering I believe over 50 percent has never visited out of their own country (no passports)) I can say that almost every country is too touristy. Short of the 7 wonders of the ancient world... I can honestly say you are not missing much and a poor man's trip to great adventure is far more exciting.
So in short you can't be too frugal when it comes to going to another country.
wilesmt
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 3:23p
"I want the last check that I write before I die to bounce." Unknown
kensat30
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 3:25p
Saving for a lot of people is a means to an end, but for others it's simply a way of life.
If anyone should be criticized for their investment habits, it is the person who is ignorant of their finances in general. This person is out of control because they don't understand what they are investing in or the risks they take to get there. It's like someone driving down the road of life, wearing a blindfold, and driving the wrong direction. Some people drive that road in a Mercedes, yet they remain ignorant of their own goals in life and of the means to achieve them. At least the overzealous savers are driving wearing their seatbelts even if their mentality is unrational and not directed towards a goal.
americano
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 3:28p
When you are 90, you will always have a remorse - no matter what you do with your money!! The actual content of the remorse will vary
bor said: Hyperopia... I know a few of those. They're always holed up at home, and when I do go out with them, their penny pinching becomes quite annoying.
Enjoy life a little, before you become too old. Don't blow all of your cash, but spend wisely, and indulge your friends a bit. If you don't, you may also find that you will have less friends in the end, since you were too cheap to go out for a dinner, a getaway trip, a ball game with them for bonding time.
if friends don't stay friends because you don't spend on them, they ain't worth having.
JermanDude
Member
posted: Jun. 16, 2009 @ 3:52p
matr8x said: almost every country is too touristy. Short of the 7 wonders of the ancient world... I can honestly say you are not missing much and a poor man's trip to great adventure is far more exciting. You obviously don't know how to travel right.
JermanDude said: matr8x said: almost every country is too touristy. Short of the 7 wonders of the ancient world... I can honestly say you are not missing much and a poor man's trip to great adventure is far more exciting. You obviously don't know how to travel right.
May be he thought that traveling to Alabama counts as international travel?
Short of the 7 wonders of the ancient world... I can honestly say you are not missing much and a poor man's trip to great adventure is far more exciting.
Let us know when you get that time machine working, as that's the only way you'll be seeing all seven.
Skipping 68 Messages...
SaulHudson
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 25, 2009 @ 11:43a
I do worry sometimes that I'm oversaving. Am I possibly socking too much away for retirement? Well, let me rephrase that. Obviously, there's no such thing as oversaving for retirement. But, could I potentially save a little bit less and still retire comfortably while buying a few extra things now... very possibly.
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