Short version: are there any FW-approved strategies to protect yourself financially if you knock up a financially irresponsible girlfriend?
Longer version: one of my friends, whom I'll call Dan and whom I've known for >12 years since college, came into my office this afternoon almost in tears and told me that his girlfriend just announced that she's 5 weeks pregnant.
They've been going out for a little over a year, and I know that Dan never saw himself in a long term relationship with her. He definitely doesn't want to get married, and if it were up to him he'd opt for an abortion -- but she and her family are too religious to go that route.
Dan is in the final year of a PhD program, so his annual income now is only his $25K stipend, but this will likely increase substantially in the next year or two. Apparently he has about $10K in savings.
A big problem (and apparently a key reason Dan doesn't want to get married) is that his girlfriend repeatedly makes horrible financial moves. She carries a ton of revolving debt, mostly to buy clothes and horses (we're in a semi-rural area, so having a horse isn't as impressive as it might sound). Her net worth is about -$20K. She works as a temp doing clerical stuff.
I've searched the archives, and the closest I've come is to this thread where a guy found out his wife was cheating on him:http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/817254 Very different situation, because the children were already there and large assets to protect already existed.
Dan knows he'll be on the hook for child support, but from a financial perspective what can he do to protect his future earnings and to ensure child support actually is supporting the child? (Going off the grid codename47 style is not an option.)
I anticipate plenty of obvious witty replies (like buying a condom and a time machine), but Dan is in a lot of pain. I promised him I would do some research, so I'm here on FW to solicit informed advice. Any such advice is appreciated.
UPDATE: Thanks to everyone who has posted serious advice. I'm surprised how much heat this thread has generated. As far as I can tell Dan is in wait-and-see mode right now... as somebody pointed out below anything can happen between 6 weeks and 9 months. I will provide further updates as far as possible.
For those who don't want to wade through 19+ pages of thread, here is a succinct summary provided somewhere around page 17: ds394 said: 1. Get a paternity test 2. Don't get married for the children 3. Sue for 50% custody; then you don't have to/shouldn't have to pay anything for child support 4. Stay involved no matter what; don't be a dead-beat. 5. Use a condom from now on until you get a vasectomy (when you're ready). Consider it Penance. 6. Be there with and for mom (at least until you get a negative paternity test). This means pre-natal visits, delivery room, ultrasounds, and all that. If you're really the father, don't miss out on these parts of your child's life.
Get a DNA test done just in case the child is not his.
devastated2
New Member
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 12:07a
It's apparently highly doubtful that she'll agree to amniocentesis to test for paternity before the baby is born, and it's a no-brainer after the baby arrives.
But in the next eight months, is there anything he can do to protect himself in case the test comes back with him as the father?
devastated2 said: girlfriend a financial disaster, now 5 weeks pregnant: FW advice?girl, you done good!
chimeer
Cranky Member
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 12:21a
devastated2 said: It's apparently highly doubtful that she'll agree to amniocentesis to test for paternity before the baby is born, and it's a no-brainer after the baby arrives.
But in the next eight months, is there anything he can do to protect himself in case the test comes back with him as the father?
In short not much, there aren't many ways to get out of child support short of becoming a bum or "go off the grid", but that is kind of self defeating imo. Even if the gf has issues he should still be involved in his kid's life. He isn't married to her so there shouldn't be any other legal liabilities involved. He should definitely have the paternity test, but beyond that, I can't think of anything else "to do".
donw 20k is not that bad. Get married, be a big daddy....don't worry about future since Dan will make quite a bit in 2 years. Only thing bothering me....get all these things done in final year PhD is darn difficult. But Dan will be a lot better person after all this. At least he will learn the beauty of a condom for the rest of his life.
DeGlass said: Just get married and win some good-will---that's about all that's left for "Dan" to gain. Mom will win custody for sure.
He can't go off the grid if he wants his PhD to be worth anything. He sure knows how to set himself well--in the final year, no less.
It's not the kid's fault; he deserves to grow up with two parents.
Agreed, absolutely not the kids fault, and marriage would be simplest. But if they don't get married, a big concern is: how to ensure child support pays for the child and not for the GF's shopping habit?
DeGlass said: Just get married and win some good-will---that's about all that's left for "Dan" to gain. Mom will win custody for sure..Sorry, I disagree with that. You think paying child support is bad, wait till he marry the nightmare..
If's not going to work before, having a child doesn't change that. Trust me on this one, I seen it before.
There's no good choice here, but there is worst of all possible scenario: marry the PBFH.
-20k isn't that bad in the scheme of things... could do worse.
Gob (arrested development): Plus, that one is religious. It gets pregnant, it stays pregnant. That's the risk you take.
To answer your question no, there's not much he can do short of going to prison or leaving the country.
devastated2
New Member
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 12:49a
tyrone3971 said: Tell you "friend" to sack up. Fatherhood can be a joy and it's not like a teenage pregnancy. Man up, be a dad and take care of your business.
Part of taking care of your business is not getting taken for a ride... he doesn't want to abandon his kid, but he doesn't want the gf to take advantage of him for the next 18 years. I just didn't have any good advice for him... that's why I'm here.
BlueEyesAustinTexas
Ancient Member
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 12:54a
If she's the custodial parent then she determines how the child support is used. Period, end of story.
A little hint--thinking about this situation in this way is a sure fire guarantee to ensure that he has the worst possible relationship with this girlfriend. Does she, for example, have any idea he does NOT intend to make an honest woman out of her and propose?
devastated2 said: J3T said: finance wise, it might be better not getting married, with her debt, she should get all kinds of gov money.
could you elaborate? do you mean welfare, food stamps etc?
i can't elaborate on anything specific, but i would imagine welfare, food stamps, she can prop get reduced med fees, lots of help/supplies for pregnancy groups like maybe planned parenthood. i don't know what all, but i'm sure there is tons of help out there for an unwed pregnant girl in debt.
devastated2
New Member
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 12:59a
BlueEyesAustinTexas said: If she's the custodial parent then she determines how the child support is used. Period, end of story.
A little hint--thinking about this situation in this way is a sure fire guarantee to ensure that he has the worst possible relationship with this girlfriend. Does she, for example, have any idea he does NOT intend to make an honest woman out of her and propose?
Apparently she has stated she does not want to get married until after the baby arrives. My friend was too upset for me to interrogate him about what that meant -- but I know their relationship is rocky to say the least.
Corndogg
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 1:12a
Unless Dan really wants to try to make a marriage work I would suggest against marriage in a case like this since. It sounds like that is not something that he would want to do anyways. The last thing he would want is a financial trainwreck of an ex-wife with alimony on top of child support and another kid or two. In all context, 20k in the hole is not that horrible unless she has other negative personality traits aside from being a shop-a-holic.
There is a FW member that I will keep anonymous unless he prefer to be known that does a very good job of keeping his taxable income to a minimum. He has been able to amass a small real estate empire that stays close to the negative as far as the IRS balance sheet is concerned. However, he is able to sock away much of his wealth in assets that are untouchable from child support until his kids turn 18. The only option that is really viable for Dan to not pay much child support is to minimize his taxable income in one way or another. Real estate can be a good vehicle for this, short of illegally hiding income.
Regardless of how the child's mother may be, Dan should do the respectable thing and be there for his child. Growing up without a father can be a difficult thing for a child and has negative effects on their mental health as they grow to be an adult. Money is not everything in this world. Best of luck.
DealOManiac
Shopaholic Member
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 1:14a
Are you Dan? Your username suggests you are Dan.
devastated2
New Member
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 1:16a
Corndogg said: Unless Dan really wants to try to make a marriage work I would suggest against marriage in a case like this since. It sounds like that is not something that he would want to do anyways. The last thing he would want is a financial trainwreck of an ex-wife with alimony on top of child support and another kid or two. In all context, 20k in the hole is not that horrible unless she has other negative personality traits aside from being a shop-a-holic.
There is a FW member that I will keep anonymous unless he prefer to be known that does a very good job of keeping his taxable income to a minimum. He has been able to amass a small real estate empire that stays close to the negative as far as the IRS balance sheet is concerned. However, he is able to sock away much of his wealth in assets that are untouchable from child support until his kids turn 18. The only option that is really viable for Dan to not pay much child support is to minimize his taxable income in one way or another. Real estate can be a good vehicle for this, short of illegally hiding income.
Regardless of how the child's mother may be, Dan should do the respectable thing and be there for his child. Growing up without a father can be a difficult thing for a child and has negative effects on their mental health as they grow to be an adult. Money is not everything in this world. Best of luck.
thank you, points well taken.
DealOManiac
Shopaholic Member
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 1:19a
Ask Dan to form a trust with the kid being the beneficiary. Ask Dan to put all of his assets in that trust before marriage. Ask Dan to sign an appropriate pre-nuptial.
If he is the father he should take care of his child both financially and emotionally. There are too many kids in this world who have one or both of their parents run out on them. Instead of killing off the baby why doesn't he try to help his girlfriend improve her financial decisions. He has been with her for a year so it isn't like it is a one night stand that ended in pregnancy. He should man up. Tell him it is time to grow up and take care of his responsibilities.
cameron2003
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 1:34a
Rather than cry, Dan should be celebrating. To be able to bring a baby into this world will fill his life with so much love, it will easily conquer all the FW BS. Congratulations are in order, I would throw a baby shower.
poncedelabank
Member
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 1:48a
cameron2003 said: Rather than cry, Dan should be celebrating. To be able to bring a baby into this world will fill his life with so much love, it will easily conquer all the FW BS. Congratulations are in order, I would throw a baby shower.
You drank the kool-aid.
bbyf16
Shopaholic Member
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 1:50a
I'm sorry if I'm about to ramble/rant but people like Dan piss me the hell off. We're not in the 1800s where there was no condom as such, no morning after pill, no spermicide, no pill/patch, no IUDs. Obviously dan had to have been happy with the relationship to be having sex with his girlfriend without a condom for a while. And if he did regularly use a condom, and this was his first time not, well, looks like he just lost a pretty bad gamble (1 egg, like 50 million sperm) and now when the inevitable outcome has arrived. Dans running around like a little b*tch saying what do I do, what do I do? I'll tell you dan should do, grow a pair, and accept the fact he's going to be a father and try to love the kid. Aint nothing worse for a kid than a father that doesn't love him. Are we all so obsessed with money that we forget that there's a life at stake here? So she has a spending problem, big deal, at least its not as big a problem as dans nature of taking adverse risk with little to no gain. Financially speaking, 20 grand may seem like a lot but its not and I'll explain to you why. She's pregnant and she's in debt in a recession, just call up all the cc compnaies and tell them straight up, listen, I'm not married, I've got a temp job, and I got pregnant, I would like to pay this debt, can you please settle with me. under these circumstances, I'd say they might even settle for 25% of the debt which turns out to be 5 grand which dan can then pay off. She can teach dan about this new invention called the freaking condom, and he can show her the magical world of debit cards. Wow, I saved the day again :-P
-sorry if there are any typos or it doesn't make sense, I'm typing on my phone.
I suggest financial counseling for her. Hope for him. Many babies spontaneously abort in the 1st trimester.
ppatin
Focused.
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 6:14a
He shouldn't get married just because he knocked her up. I think kids do do better with two happily married parents, but being raised by parents in an unhappy marriage who end up getting divorced is a bad bad situation. He needs to be sure to get a paternity test though, if he starts paying child support and later finds out the kid isn't his he'll still be on the hook, and the last thing you want is to be paying for some other guy's kid.
NoKnownPurpose
Tired Member
posted: Jun. 26, 2009 @ 6:50a
Well - not sure what state you're in but most have pretty basic rules on child support that are based on the income and means of the parents. If he wants to make sure the child is well cared for he should attempt to gain custody at least 50% of the time as soon as is practical. Then child support isn't an issue, he gets to be a dad to the child and can bring it up to be more responsible than either of its parents.
I know bareback feels good and all but condoms have a great return on investment...
If he wants to make sure the child support goes to the kid he needs to be the custodial parent. If she is truly a mess then that might be teh best thing for the kid anyway. No matter what at this point the best thing is to try and be the father he needs to be and that means being the custodial parent perhaps. But he needs to maintain at least a cordial relationship with his baby moma because she is in his life forever now. Fiscally and emotionally he is responsible for this kid. So the best option is to think about the long term Options 1. If momma was not bad fiscally woudl he love her and want to marry her? If so they should get married and he shoudl take over the finances 2. If not married would he be a better parent or her? If him he needs to set himself up to be the custodial parent. That means a lawyer now and setting himself up in a good position to argue this
lgyeresi said: gingerrose321 said: That cracked me up!!! Most men born in the USA are already circumsized. The procedure is called a Vasectomy, because the Vas deferens (sperm canal)is clipped, so sperm cannot pass. Probably a Urologist is a good choice. (Rather than a Moil)
Disclaimer: By providing links to other sites, FatWallet.com does not guarantee, approve or endorse the information or products available at these sites, nor does a link indicate any association with or endorsement by the linked site to FatWallet.com.
Members of our community may attach files to a post in accordance with the User Agreement. FatWallet is not responsible for the content, accuracy, completeness or validity of any information contained in any attached file. Files have *not* been scanned for viruses. Be especially wary of Excel files which may contain malicious content.
