My back yard is completely fenced in with a high quality white vinyl fence. When my next door neighbor wanted to build a fence, he wanted to build off of mine on the side we share instead of putting up a fence 1 inch away. I didn't have a problem so had to sign some form so the township would give him the permit.
The neighbor behind me just put up a fence today and also "built off" of mine (looks like the identical high quality white vinyl fence). However, it appears he did not get a permit as he never came to me to sign any paperwork. I called the township and they verified that he should have gotten a permit and suggested I talk to the neighbor and let him know.
I've never met this neighbor that just put in the fence (he lives on the street behind me so would not see him pulling in the driveway or anything). I have 3 options and am trying to figure out which one is best:
Do nothing
Walk over, introduce myself, explain that he needs a permit for the fence since he is building off of my fence and give him the # for the township
Call the township and put in an official complaint (would have to provide my name, address, etc)
I don't think #3 is a good idea as no reason to tick off a neighbor just for the heck of it. I'm trying to figure out what repercussions I could have due to this "illegal" fence. I know in CA that once a fence becomes "shared" that one neighbor can force the other to pay for repairs. I live in NJ so have no idea what the law is here so not sure if it's the same. If it is, I could maybe hit the neighbor up for 1/2 of any repairs (this is a very high quality fence so don't see any repairs in the next 10 years). I'm going to sell the house some day, but would someone check to see if neighbors had a fence permit? Even if they did, what can I do about it?
Because of this, I'm thinking of option #2. We live in a pretty upscale neighborhood so it seems like the "right" thing to do. I'm sure they paid someone to do the work as it's an Indian couple and 3 Mexican looking guys were doing the work.
Anyone have any idea why a different course of action would be appropriate?
Update: I didn't think there were any issues, but that is why I asked here just in case someone else could think of something. I saw the workers were still there so ran over and let the owner know about the permit (in case he wanted to avoid paying until got permit). He was a nice guy and didn't know about the permit. I gave him the phone # of the township guy and said I'd sign the paperwork that he needed. Of course, the fence guys should have known, but that's not my problem.
OH MY GOD! Your neighbor didn't get the proper fence adjustication auxiliary structure permit filed with the county? I can't believe he would be so irresponsible as to put you and your family at risk like this. You should definitely call the Attorney's General's office immediately.
I'd go with #1. Let the municipality enforce their own silly laws. But that's just me.
Chrisk327
Senior Member
posted: Jul. 2, 2009 @ 3:09p
if he puts his own corner post in to build off of.... he's not really sharing a fence. You own your fence going accross his property, his fence and your fence aren't touching right?
in my opinion..... do nothing, doesn't sound like you have any liability etc. unless for some reason the fence bothers you.
The real question is if he is building in his property or yours. It is common that your fence are built inside your property like by 1/2 foot. If so, both of your neighbors just claimed a little bit land from yours.
narshe14
Senior Member
posted: Jul. 2, 2009 @ 3:11p
I'm just curious, but what would be the reason for needing a permit to "share a fence"? Is there some sort of potential problem or liability I don't know about?
staci86
Senior Member
posted: Jul. 2, 2009 @ 3:14p
nycll said: The real question is if he is building in his property or yours. It is common that your fence are built inside your property like by 1/2 foot. If so, both of your neighbors just claimed a little bit land from yours. Precisely.
If he is building on your property, you need to put a stop to it unless you don't mind him coming back later and claiming it through adverse possession, or claiming an easement on it for the (then) existing fence.
Update: I didn't think there were any issues, but that is why I asked here just in case someone else could think of something. I saw the workers were still there so ran over and let the owner know about the permit (in case he wanted to avoid paying until got permit). He was a nice guy and didn't know about the permit. I gave him the phone # of the township guy and said I'd sign the paperwork that he needed. Of course, the fence guys should have known, but that's not my problem.
staci86 said: nycll said: The real question is if he is building in his property or yours. It is common that your fence are built inside your property like by 1/2 foot. If so, both of your neighbors just claimed a little bit land from yours. Precisely.
If he is building on your property, you need to put a stop to it unless you don't mind him coming back later and claiming it through adverse possession, or claiming an easement on it for the (then) existing fence.
#3!! #3!!! #3!!!
That way your neighbor will always refer to you as the "smasshole with the fence issues."
robstrash said: he wanted to build off of mine on the side we share instead of putting up a fence 1 inch away ... The neighbor behind me just put up a fence today and also "built off" of mineWhat does "build off of mine" mean ? On their side of the fence, are they attaching vinyl slats to your existing vinyl structure ?
staci86 said: nycll said: The real question is if he is building in his property or yours. It is common that your fence are built inside your property like by 1/2 foot. If so, both of your neighbors just claimed a little bit land from yours. Precisely.
If he is building on your property, you need to put a stop to it unless you don't mind him coming back later and claiming it through adverse possession, or claiming an easement on it for the (then) existing fence.
I bet this is a 300-year plan to secretly take over your entire house. Every 20 years your neighbor and his children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will dupe the owners of your home into giving up 1/2 foot of property to them. Then force you to push your fence 1/2 foot back to follow the 1/2-foot rule, and then rebuild the fence next to yours, wait 20 years, rinse and repeat.
xoneinax said: What does "build off of mine" mean ? On their side of the fence, are they attaching vinyl slats to your existing vinyl structure ? I drew a nice design but then realized that Fatwallet will remove all spaces you add so it crammed it all together . Basically, my back yard touches 2 neighbors, 1/2 of my fence is in their yard. One of the neighbors already has a fence and one does not. The guy that doesn't have a fence puts a fence post basically right next to mine (appears to be a 1" or so gap) and therefore doesn't have to put a fence all the way around his yard - only covers up what is not fenced by the other neighbors' fences.
So his fence is going to "meet up" (minus 1 inch) with the fence you already built ?
Where I come from, the neighbor has no say in what kind of fence I build on my side of the property line. I prefer that each neighbor has equal say and equal pay.
Quincy17
Member
posted: Jul. 2, 2009 @ 3:50p
Good fences make good neighbors. Be glad that your neighbor is also building a fence with the same appeal as yours.
Let me guess, had he sought permits and decided to build a 6' cedar fence that runs paraellel to your fence, you'd be on here complaining about that too.
I had this same thing happen on two sides. When I moved in, there was a fence in my back yard but not in the neighbor's yards. As they put up fences, two of them used my fence for a side. Those people that did that have now moved. There are different people in those houses now. My fence is old and starting to fall down. I don't have a dog anymore and have no need for a fence. They have dogs. So when those sides fall down, they will be faced with a decision. I don't need a fence, I'm not going to fix it.
WalStMonky
Happy Member
posted: Jul. 2, 2009 @ 5:07p
I called the township and they verified that he should have gotten a permit and suggested I talk to the neighbor and let him know.
Umm, so in practical reality, you've already done #3 I'll bet.
Cerdo
Senior Member
posted: Jul. 2, 2009 @ 5:15p
Since when did "high quality" and "vinyl" go in the same sentence?
1. I would personally LOVE to see update posted "My neighbor is on Fatwallet too and he/she just knocked on my door to discuss this out"
2. Its a damn fence. As long as you are not going to get grief about it, why bother ? Now if you are trying to use your neighbor to pay half of the maintenance costs for the fence, then im sorry, its a CHEAP SHORTCUT. Granted you may have never met the person, but it does not mean he is an automatic a$$hole. He may offer to share the repair/maintenance on his/her own.
3. What happened to values where people knew each other ? I have lived a good part of my life in another country and while I agree that its harder to keep up with neighbors directly on the backside of the property, nonetheless, the concept of neighborhood means to Build A Neighborhood.
Please beware, that if you want to live in that community, it will NOT JUST be that neighbor, many more will remember you as "Fence A$$hole"
It is a good thing to get suggestions and keep your end safe, so dont take any of the above personal. The concept of neighborhood seems to be going (at least in north east) I would say, Dont Sweat it. If its a neighborhood of honest, middle-class working people, I doubt your neighbor will ever come after you legally for anything. If its Upper- class neighborhood, then you probably dont belong there, since you are posting about a fence on FW. (not to say Upper-class is NOT allowed here - there is a difference. I dont see many big CEOs posting and watching FW on daily basis)
Why don't you tell us exactly what bothered you about the fence and the neighbor:
1. That he/she got to put up a fence right off yours without having to spend the money on that side of his/her property (since you have already done that for him/her) for materials/workmanship.
2. That his/her fence is the same as yours, and he/she actually spent less than you did.
3. PROFIT!
And also, why would he/she need a signature from you before putting up a fence on his/her property? The permit could've been handled by the contractors BTW.
Why don't you tell us exactly what bothered you about the fence and the neighbor:
1. That he/she got to put up a fence right off yours without having to spend the money on that side of his/her property (since you have already done that for him/her) for materials/workmanship.
2. That his/her fence is the same as yours, and he/she actually spent less than you did.
3. PROFIT!
And also, why would he/she need a signature from you before putting up a fence on his/her property? The permit could've been handled by the contractors BTW.
Well, if you actually read my post, I was not complaining, just asking if there were any potential issues anyone could think of in this situation. As I stated, the person did not have a permit and our township does require one. I know this since my other neighbor was required to have me sign a waiver to "build off" my fence (which I had no problem signing). As I then stated, I walked over, met the neighbor, chatted, then let him know that he should get a permit to avoid any problems with the township. I told him (and put in my post) that I had no problems signing the waiver at all.
Why don't you tell us exactly what bothered you about the fence and the neighbor:
1. That he/she got to put up a fence right off yours without having to spend the money on that side of his/her property (since you have already done that for him/her) for materials/workmanship.
2. That his/her fence is the same as yours, and he/she actually spent less than you did.
3. PROFIT!
And also, why would he/she need a signature from you before putting up a fence on his/her property? The permit could've been handled by the contractors BTW.
Well, if you actually read my post, I was not complaining, just asking if there were any potential issues anyone could think of in this situation. As I stated, the person did not have a permit and our township does require one. I know this since my other neighbor was required to have me sign a waiver to "build off" my fence (which I had no problem signing). As I then stated, I walked over, met the neighbor, chatted, then let him know that he should get a permit to avoid any problems with the township. I told him (and put in my post) that I had no problems signing the waiver at all.
Waiver for what - why do you need to approve a fence put up by a neighbor on their property. What potential issue? and if there was any, which I highly doubt, why did you not approach the neighbor in question, and explained, prior to calling whomever was it that you called?
Admit it, you did not like the fact that your neighbor gets to enjoy part of a fence that you spend money on, and there is nothing you can do, to prevent it.
I don't fault OP for asking the questions he has in our society we need to consciously learn not to be confrontational petty a-holes
our society is infected with these types of people, and when we get irritated it isn't unusual for people to be jerks first and figure out how stupid their behavior is later
next time a new neighbor moves in, offer to lend him some tools or bring his workers some cold drinks
then you will start to have the building blocks of a nice neighborhood
You should be glad your neighbor even bothered to put up a fence. After 5 years I still have 2 neighbors that haven't put up fences. All the trashy kids tresspass on their property because of it. Stop complaining.
Good move, always let your know neighbor if they need a permit, then its up to them. I live in a community where most people share one side of the fence. Because honestly it looks like crap when they try to have their own fence a few inches apart. You did the right thing. Kudoos!!
Of course, setting something on fire is my usual solution to most problems.
Enyin2
Ancient Member
posted: Jul. 3, 2009 @ 11:47a
i really hate neighbors like the OP....red for you!
in most towns, the business of issuing permits has gone to the point of being ridiculous, in a lot of towns around here you technically need a permit for basically any work that's not considered normal maintenance. I mean seriously, what does the town care if i install a new dishwasher? At least most towns don't get too crazy on the enforcement, unless of course you have neighbors like the OP...then you're screwed
Oh I understand perfectly well what they're trying to do, but i guess you and I have differing opinions on the state's role in private affairs. You can make this arguement for everything....perhaps the town should make sure that every time you use the stove that you turn it off afterwards, or that if your girlfriend uses a curling iron that someone should visit the house during the usage to make sure that she doesn't start a fire? There's a line to be drawn here and only personal opinion / political views determine where that line should be. Normal usage of curling irons, space heaters, candles, hotplates, etc, are far more likely to be dangerous or start a fire than your scenario.
My problem with the OP's behavior is that he called the town and is bringing town permits into the situation, when he could have just talked to the neigbor and discussed like a normal pain in the ass neighbor...but he had to take it beyond that and become a nightmare neighbor instead.
Sorry to quote something so long after it was posted, but....
Your examples are out of line. You talking about getting permits for "one-time events". Permits are for PERMANENT changes. Fences, electrical appliance installations, etc. (IF DONE WRONG) have the possibility of causing damage EVERYTIME they are used.... and sometimes by not being used (but just because they were installed wrong).
On the other hand, I have asshole neighbors.... and I talk to them about the stupid stuff they are doing. ONE of them bult a triple wide garage, without a permit. He caused massive flooding on our street for several MONTHS (not enough ground left in his yard to SUCK up rainwater)... and finally added drainage (after MULTIPLE neighbors TALKED to him about the mess he caused).
ANOTHER neighbor built a deck on his house. By himself, no plans, no professionals, no permit or inspection... and I told him he did it all wrong, and that it was going to kill someone. He "poo-poo'ed" me, walked up on the deck, then started jumping UP and DOWN, saying "It is the toughest thing I ever bui...... THEN it collapsed! He broke an ankle, crushed his boat, and got a major case of embarrassment.
PS. I am NOT into construction, but many members of my family are.... so genetics (no, really, observation, discussion, and helping decode building code for them) has taught me WHY ametuers get killed, or kill others with their "weekend projects"...
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