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Young Investor new 401k allocation questions/advice needed in: Subjects › Investing

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My fiance just started a new position and was offered immediate enrollment in a 401k with the company matching 50% up to 6% (he wants to start @ 4% for now) of his earnings per year (30-35k).

He is 23 years old, and has no savings to speak of. I am 22 and my company just terminated our 401k plan shortly after I enrolled, so my (limited) saving is in cash.

The 401k will be at Fidelity, which I have heard is very good. I came up with a preliminary guestimate as to allocations, but just wanted to get some feedback:

S&P 500 Index Fund - 60%
Pyramis Active Lifecycle 2050 - 20%
Pyramis Active Lifecycle 2040 - 20%

Other funds I have marked of interest:
Fidelity Balanced Fund (balanced mutual fund)
Fidelity Disciplined Equity Fund (large blend growth mutual fund)
Fidelity Diversified International Fund (international growth mutual fund)
Fidelity Emerging Markets Fund
Fidelity Contrafund (large growth mutual fund)
Royce pennsyvainia (mid growth mutual fund)

Does this sound like an appropriate allocation? I am not too sure about the Lifecycle funds, what are the pros/cons? What is a good guideline for a young investors allocation?


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He shouldn't contribute to his 401(k). It makes no sense without having an emergency fund. 10 months from now when he gets laid off from his job, when he needs the money, the match won't be vested and he'll pay income tax on the contribution + income tax on the gain + a 10% penalty on the entire amount.

Get rid of any high interest debt, establish an emergency fund, get adequate insurance and then start the 401(k). The investments need to be based upon his risk tolerance. Either use lifecycle funds or don't. It doesn't make much sense to combine them together or to use them with other funds.


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He shouldn't contribute to his 401(k). It makes no sense without having an emergency fund. 10 months from now when he gets laid off from his job, when he needs the money, the match won't be vested and he'll pay income tax on the contribution + income tax on the gain + a 10% penalty on the entire amount.

Get rid of any high interest debt, establish an emergency fund, get adequate insurance and then start the 401(k). The investments need to be based upon his risk tolerance. Either use lifecycle funds or don't. It doesn't make much sense to combine them together or to use them with other funds.


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Try the bogleheads forums... they like to answers these topics. They will also help pick apart investment options. The general advice is to keep it simple, make an investment plan, stick to the plan, and control costs.

InsuranceExpert seems to have jumped to some conclusions. At my work 401k matching funds are instantly vested. Without knowing more about your situation it is hard to say if an emergency fund is more important than the free money a match provides. In my situation i contributed the minimum needed to max the free matching as soon as it was available.

Message edited by: Peppe1 on 2009-09-05 14:38:39 CDT
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Peppe1, you are absolutely correct that I jumped to a conclusion. It is rare for matching funds to be immediately vested. The exception is for safe harbor plans and SIMPLE IRAs.

Regardless, my advice wouldn't change. It stinks to say no to free money. What happens if in 6 months from now, there is an emergency and he is in need of cash?

If we knew that he had a source of cash, so that he'd be ok if something happened, my advice would change on the emergency fund, but not with the high interest debt and insurance.


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I was them 4 years ago.

I still don't have an emergency fund, which probably isn't great, but i have 4 years of 50% match of 8%. Wife switched companies and now has the same deal. I've maxed my Roth the last 3 years.

Certainly i have done some things wrong, but i don't count 401k contributions as one of them. Roth maybe should have gone to emergency fund, but job is in a stable industry (defense/aerospace), so emergency fund hasn't been a priority.

My advice:
Don't by new cars after graduating (our mistake 2 new hondas almost paid off now)
Don't by a house until you can put 20% down (our mistake 100% finance, learned a lot about home repair though...)
Don't get into credit card debt (never have never will...)
Get used to saving for retirement first and you won't miss the money.


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I would just put it all in the 2050 fund. It's already balanced and will adjust as you get older. Like Ron Popeil says - Set it and forget it.


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Peppe1, you have an emergency fund. You have three years of Roth contributions that can be removed at any time for any reason without taxes or penalties.

An emergency doesn't have to be related to losing one's job.

For someone who hasn't put money away, putting money into a Roth instead of an emergency fund isn't a bad idea. If the money is never needed, it has been invested for retirement. If it is needed, it can be pulled out of the Roth. I would simply suggest that if one doesn't have liquid cash that the Roth be invested conservatively until it can be replaced by a true emergency fund.

All four of your pieces of advice are excellent.


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krosebud84 said:My fiance just ...

He is ...

I am 22.

Pics?


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* put enough money in the 401(k) to get the company match, it is free money
* at your age and about to get married, do not save alot of money. Instead, try your best to stay out of debt and build up some emergency funds (does not have to be in cash or MM) outside of the 401(k) / IRA.
* since you have little money and a lot of time to save, in a sense now is the best time to make your investment mistakes. I would pick some more funds which look good to you.


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OP, some more information on your situation may help others to assist you. Some people have mentioned possible debt, but the OP hasn't specifically stated whether or not they have debt. No savings does not necessarily equate to high interest debt.

I agree with IE that it doesn't make that much sense to have 60% in an S&P 500 index fund and then 40% in the lifecycle funds. Based on what I could dig out from the Pyramis website, it looks like the lifecycle funds may already have between 60-70% in US equity, which would mean your allocation contains ~86% US equity. I'm not qualified to be giving people advice on this stuff, but I'd wager a guess that most people would not consider this optimal.


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Besides the fundamental questions like emergency fund (definitely required for all), you have to (1) read a book like Mutual Funds for Dummies), (2) assess your time horizon (when do you need the money) and risk tolerance, (3) do asset allocation, (4) do fudn diversification.

Your allocation/fund choices are not according to this discpline (i.e., not an assset allocation strategy). There is a lot of fund overlapping in large cap for your selection (i.e., no diversification).

To give an example: Age 22 with moderate risk tolerance --> 80% equity, 20% fixed income (asset allocation) ---> determine passive (indexing) or active --> passive fund diversification (20% large cap index, 20% mid cap index, 20% small cap index, 20% international index, 20% bond index). I choose to give an indexing diversification example since no active fund discussions are allowed in this forum.

Hope this helps.


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You can pick up any throwaway financial mag or find online what the typical allocation should be for your age group. I might throw out the Lifecycle funds, because these funds tend to be a little more expensive and obfuscate your investments, not that any of the other funds are more transparent. Fact is, with most 401K fund choices, you really have no idea what you're getting for your money.


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Those lifestyle (yeart target) funds are a good lazy way of investing -- as long as the costs aren't too high. Boggleheads is your next stop.


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50% match from day 1. Wow! What company is this?

Well the point was made that there should be an emergency fund but an emergency line of credit might make sense if he is going to get that much of a match.

I put away 10% myself, being that securities are inexpensive right now. If your fiancé alocates well he/she can really clean up riding the market up over the long run


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Here's a minority view, take it with a grain of salt:

With a 50% match, you're getting a nice return on every dollar you put in (up to the match limit, obviously). In the current market environment, it might not be wise to try to stretch for more return than that. You may want to consider putting all the money in the fund closest to a 100% money market fund; most 401(k) plans have at least one option like this. They typically return a solid 2% or so, nothing sexy, but if the current bear market turns out to be long-term (which I think is likely), you will have avoided eating away at the value of the match.

You'll hear much about "investing for the long term", partly because stocks do tend to make up for losses over very long time periods, and partly because the finance industry is structurally incentivized to encourage you to be invested at all times. If you happen to invest at a time when stocks are headed south in a secular trend, however, it takes quite a bit of recovery to make up for the losses. If you incur a 50% loss, it takes a 100% gain just to get back to where you began. Accordingly, unless you're extremely convinced that we've reached the end of the global recession, it may pay to be defensive for the time being.


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Poppies, do you know that the market is way up these past 6 months? How do you know that the market is going down now? You are right that it makes sense to be in a money market if the market is going down, but it's useless unless the person also knows when to get back into the market.

If the market is at 8000 today and slowly goes down to 7000 and then down to 6000 and then goes back to 8000, in general, who will do better with their 401(k)? A) The person who left their money in the money market or B) The person who had their money invested the whole time?

Poppies, in case you are wondering the answer is "B". If one is going into a money market because they think that the market is going down, they are engaging in market timing. The problem with this is that they have to be right twice. They have to be correct that the market is going down and they have to be right about when to put their money back into the market.


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At 23 years old and with the market being relatively low right now, I'd find the cheapest S&P 500 index fund and put it all there. If the market tanks, at your age, that's even better. You'll make a kiling over the long haul. I guess Poppies advising you to only buy stocks when you're sure the recession is over. Unfortunately, buying stocks high usually doesn't pay off very well.


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Put it all in single companies and ride up the last years losses. IM 100% equities in individual companies rather then some varied fund.


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