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posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 1:08p
woowoo2
In the crosshairs
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 1:13p
It is what you make of it......
I don't regret the time that I served... (And it did help me later in life)
bpydimer
Senior Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 1:34p
I work in the VA. From my observation, Military /gov't jobs are largely for people who have failed in their career!! From my past observation in high school, those who joined Military were college rejects and incompetent students.
Are they really recruiting Payroll clerks? Believing a recruiter can secure you a certain position during signup is about as reliable as a hooker using the rhythm method for birth control. But fortunately there are always spots in "front line infantry".
I can see ROTC being a decent deal, but unless you are open to the idea of shooting people and getting shot at, I wouldn't view the armed services as a good way to advance a career.
mstng
New Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 1:51p
LMAO....
Ignorance speaking above...
The Military is a terrific option for someone. I spent 26 years active duty and retired with a masters degree from GWU. I currently make 196,000 annually in the civilian community because of the Military and the 6 years of education they provided. In addition, I also receive 40K annually as a pension that I began receiving at age 44. It also keeps pace with inflation thus If I live to 84 I will have received well over $1.5 mil.....Try to find a pension program like that anywhere else...
Rejects and incompetent students?...You have some of the finest men and women serving in the Military ...
Beware of those that never served...or only served with the VA...
mstng
New Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 1:54p
So you have a BS degree....Thus you are eligible to come in as a commissioned officer rather than enlisted. In the navy you would probably be what we call a supply officer. I would guess that you would need to fulfill the same requirements that you need as a civilian. ie CPA exam...
if you can go the officer route the Military can't be beat. Not only do you pull a pension after 20 years in, but they often have a lot of tax free perks like a housing allowance. I bet you wouldn't mind making 80k a year plus free health and another 2k a month for a housing allowance.
bpydimer
Senior Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 2:01p
mstng, Your status as an accomplished veteran doesn't give you the right to ignore the abundance of veterans living in subpar conditions. BTW, not all veterans get 40k pensions...in fact, most get around 20k. Good luck with that.
pmanager
Senior Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 2:14p
A couple of things to keep in mind: 1. Different environment (uniform, following orders, etc.) Some folks do not like that. 2. Are you thinking about the Military option because your friends joined? If this is the reason, you might regret your decision later.
Xnarg
Senior Member - 5K
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 2:20p
bpydimer said: ...not all veterans get 40k pensions...in fact, most get around 20k. Good luck with that.I wouldn't mind having received a $20k pension starting at age 44. I know of no private sector jobs like that.
Are you assuming that people who retire from the Military at that age should be able to stop working?
mstng
New Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 2:22p
Nor does your experience at the VA give you the right to insult the many millions that are not "rejects", "incompetents" or and haven't "failed" at their civilian careers.
20k at 40 years old for life is a pretty damn good pension....
Just because an abundance of veterans are living in "subpar" conditions doesn't mean it is because of the Military . There are also an abundance of non-Military living in subpar conditions...IOW...many would be living in subpar conditions regardless of their experiences, Military or civilian..
I hope the OP is getting something out of this, as I don't argue just for arguments sake....
Gman476
Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 2:23p
I do not have a BS degree thank you. I have 2 bachelors (1 accounting & 1 finance) in order to meet the requirements of CPA certification. I've been interested in Military for a while.
Gman476
Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 2:26p
What branch would you suggest mstng? In my mind I've narrowed it down to Army or Airforce but am open for suggestions to others.
Gman476 said: I do not have a BS degree thank you. I have 2 bachelors (1 accounting & 1 finance) in order to meet the requirements of CPA certification. I've been interested in Military for a while.
BS =/ Bullshit
Gman476
Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 2:29p
Yes, I'm aware of what it means. Just because you do not respect accounting does not mean it is at the same level as a philosophy major.
TheQC
New Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 2:35p
I think he was saying is a BS (Bachelors of Science) degree enough to classify yourself as a commission officer vs. a lower ranking position...
My father joined the Army to escape poverty, and he stayed until 20-year retirement so he and my mother would be financially secure, especially for the medical insurance (Tri-Care is great). When younger people have asked him about the Military , he's always recommended the Air Force or Navy because of the technical education opportunities (especially important to people who lack special skills -- my father knows former Army sargeants who don't make much money in civilian life) and the lower likelihood of being sent into combat. Also he says the basic training is much easier in those branches compared to what it is in the Army and Marines.
Do not trust recruiters, unless they emphasize the risks of war, permanent injury, and death. That's not to say that most recruiters lie most of the time. Talk to people who are or who have served. And remember: Just because you sign up for just four years doesn't mean your obligation will end in four years.
If you join and have kids, try to get them into elementary or high schools run by the Military (actually staffed entirely by civilians) because they tend to be among the best-run American schools, as NAEP scores have shown, despite the parents tending to come from lower than average income and education backgrounds (almost no other school system accomplishes that). I believe you have to live on the base to maintain eligibility, but many Military parents think that's worth it for the superior education.
polaris said: bpydimer said: From my past observation in high school, those who joined Military were college rejects and incompetent students.You're right on, I've personally seen that exact scenario play out in Stripes and Private Benjamin.General Ulysses S. Grant thought so, too, and saw only poverty for himself if he remained a civilian. And just after the Vietnam War, the US Military relaxed its standards so much that lots of incompetents were let in and allowed to stay, and in a few years the result was the NCO pool becoming seriously deficient and full of senior sargeants who should have never been promoted above private. One person said he quit the Military because he was tired of the dumb sargeants, and his commanding officer understood. Fortunately enlistment standards were greatly improved in the 1980s, and I believe the Marines always maintained theirs.
mlayu
Senior Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 3:22p
I think the Military is a representative of America. Some like to rack up credit card bills and go to payday loans. That's why I usually see a lot of payday loans close to Military base/post. However, a lot of veterans become successful in their careers after getting out.
I am not sure if you can use accounting background in the Military . Whatever positive promises that your recruiter say, you can bet that it's not always 100% true. Make sure you know that your MOS (Army) or rating (Navy) is available. I was told that I could be an Electronic Technician (Navy), and then right before I signed the paper at the MEPS (the office where you sign the paper), I was told that there was no opening for ET. Either the guy was telling the truth (doubtful), or lying and trying to fill his quota on other ratings (more likely). So I had to make a decision on what type of Navy career I would choose on the spot. I'm not sure if this applies to other branches or officers though.
Gman476 said: What branch would you suggest mstng? In my mind I've narrowed it down to Army or Airforce but am open for suggestions to others.
Vets will tend to promote their own forces. As a Military brat of parents that served in 3 branches (dad navy, mom army, air force) I think your best option is the Air Force. All branches tend to consider the AF the cushiest assignments. They tend to have the best deployment facilities, the result of more funding. The marines are typically the last choice (unless they appeal to you, but for most people, avoid!)
I have the utmost respect for the Military tradition, nothing but trust and respect for Military officers and think there are many lucrative and worthwhile career paths in the service.
That said, I personally would have moral discomfort with any of the ridiculous wars we are waging now.
mstng
New Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 3:40p
gman476....My apologies....I meant Bachelor of Science.
A 4 year degree qualifies one to be commissioned as an officer rather than enlisted but only if there is a job opening. There are enlisted members that also have 4 year degrees but the degree isn't one that is currently needed..It is simply a minimal requirement. I know pilots that came into the Military with degrees in sociology and eventually found themselves flying jets....and others that have a Masters in health care and are enlisted because there are not any billets for them.
I would guess that your degree is something that is found useful to the Military . There should be plenty of billets for supply officers. If I were you I would contact the "officer" recruiters for the 3 branches. They will not be at your local recruiting office, and you can probably find reference to them online.
I spent my time in the Navy with the fist 12 years as an enlisted assigned to the marines most of the time. The rest was commissioned as a Naval officer. I do not know much about the Air force and Army but you could expect Sea time if in the Navy with your kind of degree. Not the entire time though.
bpydimer said: I work in the VA. From my observation, Military /gov't jobs are largely for people who have failed in their career!! From my past observation in high school, those who joined Military were college rejects and incompetent students.
I read this, and tried real hard not to take it personally. I also swore NOT to fight back, and drop to your level.
OP, I am retired Army. I enjoyed my service. I miss being in (I have been retired more than 10 years).
In answer to which service? 1. Army (being the largest service) get the most funding. Advancement is USUALLY faster in the army (at least in the enlisted ranks). One option you may want to look at is joining the Reserves (and if you really like, go regular army).
2. Air Force - Nicer living quarters, better food. Slower to advance in rank. From what I have heard, training (basic and additional) are easier.
One of the best things going are the education benefits. You can take classes at reduced fees (they also help for professional development, which speeds up your career advancement). You get free or reduced fees tests (some of which, when you pass, gives you college credits. Your Military work experience translates into college credits.
Lastly are the GI bills... I don't know all the particulars of the latest program, but they have added "transferability"... which means if you are eleigible to receive funds for education, you can NAME family members to recieve a part of your benefit. As you have children (and you are still on active duty), you name the new child as a beneficiary. You basically serve, and your children get YOUR benefits.
Oh OP... if you visit the HotDeals side of FW... you get access to AAFES (sometime GREAT deals, and ALWAYS tax-free shopping). Plus commissary benefit... plus MWR. Plus all the other benefits that companies offer veteran's (which include Active Duty); free entry to Disney, discounts (Lowe's and some Home Depot's offer 10%), Free dinner @ Golden Coral on Veteran's day, etc.
OK, stewed enough about "I work at VA" dude's comment. You are a DICK! No wonder Veterans dislike some of the issues with VA... it's people like you. You ASSUME your Clients are incompetent and rejects... Why not do both of us a favor and go get a GOVT. job in a politician's office... they are out of touch with the Real Citizens too! Wait a minute... YOU have a govt. job!
PS to mods... if neccessary, I would appreciate a selective edit of my post, if someone complains about me... everything except THIS paragraph and the one immediately preceeding it should be deleted (or edited). The rest is pertinent to the OP!
mstng
New Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 3:49p
Regarding the particular service I would look at which one you could even get in. There may not be open billets in the air force etc....
The biggest difference I think in the various branches is duty stations and missions. In the Navy you will find yourself along the coast in the US, Italy, Okinawa Japan and eventually on a ship.
Air force is known more for isolated duty stations rather than ship deployments as you would find in the Navy.
Many Army personnel have spent some time in Germany where there is a huge Army presence....and lately in Iraq and Afghanistan..
mstng
New Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 3:53p
Leave it to the Army guy to tell it like it is....
OP, He is right on about the differences between the services...and especially correct with reference to the last part..
chris8796n
Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 4:23p
My 4 yrs in the USMC served me well. I often recommend the armed forces for people needing some direction in life.
mstng said: Nor does your experience at the VA give you the right to insult the many millions that are not "rejects", "incompetents" or and haven't "failed" at their civilian careers.
20k at 40 years old for life is a pretty damn good pension....
Just because an abundance of veterans are living in "subpar" conditions doesn't mean it is because of the Military . There are also an abundance of non-Military living in subpar conditions...IOW...many would be living in subpar conditions regardless of their experiences, Military or civilian..One study found that veterans actually did better in life than people of similar backgrounds who never joined, which may have been why my father, who, unlike his brother who never joined, didn't become a petty "My Name Is Earl" thief. Military service and college education are probably the most effective ways to improve one's socioeconomic standing.
friscogiants
Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 4:37p
Serving in the Military is fantastic if you're okay with being told where to go and what to do. Pension is great and pay is competitive. Unlike other jobs like nursing in the Military , chances are you won't be deployed although ALL Military PEOPLE ARE DEPLOYABLE. The private sector gives you more options in terms of being able to do what you want and controlling your own money making prowess, but over time with pension if you stay the full 20, you come out way ahead in the Military .
glxpass
Senior Member - 5K
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 5:47p
JTFH said: I have the utmost respect for the Military tradition, nothing but trust and respect for Military officers and think there are many lucrative and worthwhile career paths in the service.
That said, I personally would have moral discomfort with any of the ridiculous wars we are waging now. I echo these sentiments, and that's why joining the Military just because one's friends are doing it, is about most foolish reason for doing so. Even the "Good War", WWII, resulted in many deaths. Just because one war might be more moral than another doesn't make the manner of death any cleaner.
I think joining the Military can be a good option for some people (it was for my father), but one shouldn't blindly make a decision this important. Joining up could well prove to be one of the most important decisions in one's life and shouldn't be made lightly.
ETA: As others have pointed out, regardless of the risks of war, not everyone has the particular mindset to make joining the Military a good experience.
bpydimer said: I work in the VA. From my observation, Military /gov't jobs are largely for people who have failed in their career!! From my past observation in high school, those who joined Military were college rejects and incompetent students.
They have served the nation better than the other cream.
rama13
Member
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 6:00p
Make sure you're talking with an officer recruiter. Do no enlist if you have a 4-yr. degree already; the pay and quality of life is significantly less.
Technologist said: Oh OP... if you visit the HotDeals side of FW... you get access to AAFES (sometime GREAT deals, and ALWAYS tax-free shopping). Plus commissary benefit... plus MWR. Plus all the other benefits that companies offer veteran's (which include Active Duty); free entry to Disney, discounts (Lowe's and some Home Depot's offer 10%), Free dinner @ Golden Coral on Veteran's day, etc. "I just want to join for the hot deals." I wonder if a recruiter has ever heard that line?
retmil said: The Military is the biggest bunch of dysfunctional misfits you will ever find. Most all members joined because they were running from something. Go for it! You might live through it. If you are only slightly intelligent you will go far.
Have you seen someone catching what he/she is running towards, I will challenge anyone, it is against the basic tenets of evolution to get what you dreamed about, but you follow what is in front of you and is a prospective connection to what you hope to be?
Crazytree
Senior Member - 8K
posted: Oct. 13, 2009 @ 6:08p
SigX said: Technologist said: Oh OP... if you visit the HotDeals side of FW... you get access to AAFES (sometime GREAT deals, and ALWAYS tax-free shopping). Plus commissary benefit... plus MWR. Plus all the other benefits that companies offer veteran's (which include Active Duty); free entry to Disney, discounts (Lowe's and some Home Depot's offer 10%), Free dinner @ Golden Coral on Veteran's day, etc. "I just want to join for the hot deals." I wonder if a recruiter has ever heard that line?I'm sure discounts at Home Depot will seem very important when you're in some firebase in the mountains of Afghanistan while being overrun with Taliban sappers.
Skipping 103 Messages...
lamoof
Tired Member
posted: Feb. 19, 2010 @ 1:13a
As with any job it is what you make of it. There are many opportunities that the Military will give you that entry level jobs in the private sector will not. The Military will be what you make of it. There is room for advancement and other jobs if you choose. It is a tight knit community that will continue (if you choose) after you retire. Benefits wise, there are many as well..many that the recruiter may not even tell you.
It is a very personal choice and I feel if you want to serve your country, a good one. Just like anything it is all in the attitude and those with good attitudes of course will excel!!
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