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My employer offers an umbrella insurance policy as an option during annual benefit/insurance enrollment. I found out it costs $230 a year for $1M in coverage. Is this a fair price?

Before someone suggests that I get quotes, I don't want to my credit score pulled by a bunch of places since I'm in the middle of getting my mortgage qualification done.

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there are insurers that offer a standalone umbrella policy so you dont need to move your auto or home away from state fa... (more)

SUCKISSTAPLES (Oct. 30, 2009 @ 6:21p) |

I pay $417 for $1mm coverage and will upgrade next month to $2mm for $600 annual premium. It may have to do with the fac... (more)

ptiemann (Oct. 30, 2009 @ 8:53p) |

Thanks. I looked up your old thread on standalone umbrella: http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/718373?highlight_key... (more)

mathfaster (Oct. 31, 2009 @ 8:27a) |

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.
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Seems about right. Remember with umbrella they make you raise all your car insurance to high levels.

Also, you are buying lawyer insurance. The more umbrella on the line the better lawyer the Co. assigns to defend it.

Thank you! I did some digging and found out for the policy I would have to max out the car insurance, even for uninsured motorist, and also get high coverage on the home owner's insurance. Doesn't seem like such a good deal now.

Our Geico $1MM umbrella policy costs $118 with maxed out auto coverage ($300k/$300k).

wow allstate is 300$ I think its time to shop around

chessycatlane said: wow allstate is 300$ I think its time to shop around
I pay $165 on an Allstate policy, required me to bump up car coverage to 250/500.

for a year or 6 months? i pay 300 for a year. have house and 3 vehicles insured as well. I wonder what the difference is due to

chessycatlane said: for a year or 6 months? i pay 300 for a year. have house and 3 vehicles insured as well. I wonder what the difference is due to
For a year, two cars and house covered.

bozo007 said: chessycatlane said: for a year or 6 months? i pay 300 for a year. have house and 3 vehicles insured as well. I wonder what the difference is due to
For a year, two cars and house covered.


Are these policies based on the value of the house at all?

no not based on value at all

However many umbrellas do surcharge for extra cars and homes

Search the archives using title word umbrella for priror premium comparison threads

Also keep in mind that unless you are in a situation similar to that of SiS in which in is impossible or way too expensive to get all the policies from the same company, you would be well advised to keep them with the same carrier. Although most insurance carriers refuse to issue umbrella policies without also issuing the underlying policies, some will allow you to get homeowner's but not auto through another company. Some companies, like PLI, will issue stand alone umbrella policies.

From my stand point, there are two major reasons to keep umbrella and underlying policies with the same company, even if it costs a little bit extra (but not outrageously so). First, if you have policies from different companies, in the event of a large claim coordinating your defense with two carriers may be difficult, especially since the carriers would have somewhat conflicting interests. Remember that one of the biggest reasons for purchasing umbrella coverage is to get higher quality defense, since in the event of a large claim the insurance company facing a large loss would be much more likely to approve much higher defense rates and expenditures. If, on the other hand, you have different companies issuing the underlying and umbrella coverages, in the event of a large claim each company's exposure would obviously be substantially smaller than if the same company issued all the coverages. Hence, the carriers would be a lot less likely to approve more costly defense spending.

Second, policies issued by different companies may have policy language that clashes with each other, preventing you from having a truly seamless policy. As such, from my stand point, it is generally preferable to have all the policies issued by the same carrier.

As I've previously mentioned, while you are getting quotes on umbrella and on underlying coverages, be sure to get a quote from Chubb. Chubb's quote will most likely be the most expensive one out there, but Chubb's insurance often represents the gold standard when it comes to insurance. For instance, with their auto insurance you have the agreed value option, where you essentially agree on the value of your car that you'll receive if it is totalled at the time you accept the policy. Chubb will also pay for OEM parts when other insurers won't.

With umbrella's, they tend to also be a lot easier to work with and authorize much higher rates for their counsel, which gives you higher quality legal representation. With jewelry insurance they also provide the agreed value option, where if you sustain a loss for a covered cause, they will promptly pay you the previously agreed upon value. No hassles, no burdensome estimates, etc...

All these features do come at a price, however. The price differential was too high for me, but if I were you, I'd at the very least find out how much more expensive they would be.

Another insurance company that also ranks very highly on its claims settlement practices is Cincinnati insurance. Although they are not as "generous" as Chubb when it comes to cash settlements, in many states they do, for instance, still provide a true uncapped guaranteed replacement endorsement to homeowners' policies (most other companies cap their endorsements at 25% to 50% depending on the company and the state).

chessycatlane said: for a year or 6 months? i pay 300 for a year. have house and 3 vehicles insured as well. I wonder what the difference is due toI've never seen an umbrella policy that was only good for 6 month -- every single umbrella policy that I've ever looked at was for a year. In any case, some of the things that would cause your umbrella premiums to rise would be the number of cars, number of residences/rental properties that you own, household pets (especially dogs of certain breeds), trampolines, pools, household employees, such as nanny's or housekeepers and just your overall credit and claims history.

SUCKISSTAPLES said: no not based on value at all

However many umbrellas do surcharge for extra cars and homes

Another factor may be the liability risk of the drivers under your umbrella policy. When I became a teenage driver my parents bought an umbrella policy. When I stopped using my parents insurance they kept the umbrella policy but the rate went down. I am guessing that if you (or others on your policy) have a high history of tickets, accidents, or are naturally part of a high risk group (male teenage drivers), you will pay a higher umbrella rate. Also if you live in a geographical area that has a higher rate of accidents (or an area with higher insurance payouts per accident) then you will pay more. And the more drivers on one policy means greater risk of a claim, so I am sure it goes up for each person you are covering.
Remember that an umbrella policy is all about liability. Usually the value of your cars/house have nothing to do with the likelyhood of you causing damage to someone else.

I pay $600/yr to State Farm for a 1M umbrella policy. My policy is higher as I am grandfathered in to a coverage State Farm no longer offers to new policy holders. I am insured for $1M for underinsured and uninsured motorists. Not an unlikely event in CA. State Farm also requires that the auto limits be 300/100.

beethovengirl said: Our Geico $1MM umbrella policy costs $118 with maxed out auto coverage ($300k/$300k).

Interesting. I have my $1M umbrella policy with Geico as well. $142/yr. That is for my wife and I. Is the above for single or married?

FYI, Geico as well as most insurers at least require you to have your auto with them before they will write an umbrella policy.

FYI: I just switched from Travelers, had them for 5 yrs, but they
kept jackin my auto $$ even with no claims/no tickets - got way out of line.
I ended up with Geico. $1M Umbrella was $274, the breakout was:
$52/car * 3 cars (Honda CRV, Honda Element, Toyota Avalon), $60/home, $58/youthful
operator (teen driver) - with underlying $300K primary insurance on car & home.
Note: I live in Texas, have a fenced pool, no trampoline, no pets.
This was the lowest for my situation. Liberty Mutual was close, the others:
Travelers, Metlife... were generally $50 - $80 dollars higher.

TxAggieJen said: Before someone suggests that I get quotes, I don't want to my credit score pulled by a bunch of places since I'm in the middle of getting my mortgage qualification doneIs it common for hard credit pulls when getting quotes for just an umbrella insurance policy.

State Farm Annual Insurance Premium: $162.00

I have house, boat, motorcycle, jetski all under that.

In evaluating umbrella policies, people also need to see whether they are purchasing an additional $1MM in protection or whether the umbrella policy will cover a total of $1MM after you take the underlying policy into account. In other words, if you have 250K/500K liability limits on your auto policy, which is one of the common limits required by umbrella carriers, and are involved in an accident with 2 or more people, will your umbrella policy pay out up to $1MM for the maximum payout between the auto and umbrella policies of $1.5MM, or will they just add an additional $500K, so that the maximum payout between the auto and umbrella policies be $1MM?

mathfaster said: I pay $600/yr to State Farm for a 1M umbrella policy. My policy is higher as I am grandfathered in to a coverage State Farm no longer offers to new policy holders. I am insured for $1M for underinsured and uninsured motorists. Not an unlikely event in CA. State Farm also requires that the auto limits be 300/100.What is the advantage of your policy that justifies paying a much higher policy premium for it? Does it provide additional coverages that are excluded from cheaper and newer umbrella policies?

geo123 said: mathfaster said: I pay $600/yr to State Farm for a 1M umbrella policy. My policy is higher as I am grandfathered in to a coverage State Farm no longer offers to new policy holders. I am insured for $1M for underinsured and uninsured motorists. Not an unlikely event in CA. State Farm also requires that the auto limits be 300/100.What is the advantage of your policy that justifies paying a much higher policy premium for it? Does it provide additional coverages that are excluded from cheaper and newer umbrella policies?

It provides payments to me of up to $1M if someone is underinsured or uninsured and they hit me and I am injured and my bills are higher than their insurance liability provides. You cannot get this today from State Farm.

It really depends on 2 factors- how many people you want covered and how many policies you want covered.

If you have 2 cars and 2 people and a house, you should be at $160-$180/yr for $1M.

I'm not going to SELL to you because I'm probably not licensed in your state, but if you want a 2 second quote to give you a BALLPARK, PM me. One I use as a general idea is http://www.personalumbrella.com/ There's cheaper ones out there, but they're pretty darn close; all I need to know is zip code, how many people w/ages, and how many polices.

ballpark 3 adults zip 94111
7 cars and 18 properties at $1 2 &3million rates?

Double post

dandan50 said: beethovengirl said: Our Geico $1MM umbrella policy costs $118 with maxed out auto coverage ($300k/$300k).
Interesting. I have my $1M umbrella policy with Geico as well. $142/yr. That is for my wife and I. Is the above for single or married?

Married, 1 car. Geico is also absurdly cheap for our auto insurance - $188 per 6 months ('98 Toyota Corolla).

geo123 said: In evaluating umbrella policies, people also need to see whether they are purchasing an additional $1MM in protection or whether the umbrella policy will cover a total of $1MM after you take the underlying policy into account. In other words, if you have 250K/500K liability limits on your auto policy, which is one of the common limits required by umbrella carriers, and are involved in an accident with 2 or more people, will your umbrella policy pay out up to $1MM for the maximum payout between the auto and umbrella policies of $1.5MM, or will they just add an additional $500K, so that the maximum payout between the auto and umbrella policies be $1MM?

This is an excellent point - insurance agents often do not adequately explaining this point to their insureds and I've asked around to friends and family - most assume that the umbrella's coverage is on top of the underlying coverage but it may not be.

Similarly, you should also ask your agent and obtain clarification about whether your underinsured motorist (UIM)coverage is on top of the other driver's coverage - does your $250k coverage give you $300k coverage if driver who hit you has only a $50k policy, or does it give you up to a maximum coverage of $250k when combined with the other driver's insurance? Insurance agents almost never explain this adequately and often people will be surprised to find that their UIM policy doesn't provide a bonus amount of coverage of the policy limits but rather represents the maximum amount of recovery they can obtain.

One thing I highly recommend is adding UIM and uninsured motorist (UM) to your umbrella policy. You'd be surprised how fast $200k or $300k of coverage can get eaten up if you have several major surgeries and need extended hospitalization or other continued care, not even taking into account your pain and suffering, lost wages, or future medical expenses. In some states (Ohio is one of them) where the insurance lobby has the legislature wrapped around their fingers, your health insurer gets first priority on your personal injury settlement proceeds, notwithstanding that they have made a profit on your premium that incorporates the risk of having paid out for medical treatments for accident injuries - if you have UM or UIM coverage of only $100k and have $100k or more in medical bills, that UM/UIM coverage may be nothing more than $50 or $100 a year you paid your auto insurer for the privilege of seeing your health insurer reimbursed while you get nothing for your pain and suffering, lost wages, etc....

lousygolfer said: In some states (Ohio is one of them) where the insurance lobby has the legislature wrapped around their fingers, your health insurer gets first priority on your personal injury settlement proceeds, notwithstanding that they have made a profit on your premium that incorporates the risk of having paid out for medical treatments for accident injuries - if you have UM or UIM coverage of only $100k and have $100k or more in medical bills, that UM/UIM coverage may be nothing more than $50 or $100 a year you paid your auto insurer for the privilege of seeing your health insurer reimbursed while you get nothing for your pain and suffering, lost wages, etc....It's not just in Ohio that this is the case. In most if not all states out there, health insurance companies in this situation would have subrogation rights against the auto policy, so that any payouts intended to reimburse you for medical bills from either your or the other driver's auto policy would be used to reimburse the health insurance carrier and the remainder, if any, would go to you.

simple...just classify the settlement as "pain and suffering"...makes sure its taxfree too.s

home, several rental properties, 4 cars, 2 adults -
$2M for $235/yr State Farm

Ours is $190 for $2M coverage with Erie insurance. So without knowing risk factors, $230 for $1M sounds very high. They had quoted us $123 for $1M.

mathfaster said: geo123 said: mathfaster said: I pay $600/yr to State Farm for a 1M umbrella policy. My policy is higher as I am grandfathered in to a coverage State Farm no longer offers to new policy holders. I am insured for $1M for underinsured and uninsured motorists. Not an unlikely event in CA. State Farm also requires that the auto limits be 300/100.What is the advantage of your policy that justifies paying a much higher policy premium for it? Does it provide additional coverages that are excluded from cheaper and newer umbrella policies?

It provides payments to me of up to $1M if someone is underinsured or uninsured and they hit me and I am injured and my bills are higher than their insurance liability provides. You cannot get this today from State Farm.
You are paying 2 to 3 times more for your umbrella policy than you'd presumably pay if you were to accept a regular umbrella without $1MM underinsured/uninsured limits. Wouldn't you be able to increase your underinsured and uninsured coverage limits on the underlying auto policy to $1MM for a lot less than you are paying?

SUCKISSTAPLES said: ballpark 3 adults zip 94111
7 cars and 18 properties at $1 2 &3million rates?



APPLICANT INFORMATION
Staples, Suckis

San Francisco CA 94111

Quote ID: Q366786


QUOTE SUMMARY


WE ARE PLEASED TO OFFER YOU THE FOLLOWING QUOTATION
BASED UPON THE INFORMATION YOU ENTERED.

Personal Umbrella Quote Coverage Limit Annual
Premium
Select
Limit Coverage A
Umbrella Limits $1,000,000 $730
$2,000,000 $1,168
$3,000,000 $1,591
$4,000,000 $2,008
$5,000,000 $2,409
Select
Limit Coverage B
Excess Uninsured and
Underinsured Motorist None $0
$1,000,000 $350
WARNING: TO INCLUDE UM/UIM COVERAGE: Primary UM/UIM Automobile Limit must be at least a minimum of $250,000/$500,000.
Policy Fee $45
Date Note Summary Text

Confirmation of Exposures
Personal Property

$300,000 Personal Liability Primary Minimum
18-Dwelling/Rental Units 0-Acres-Rural Land 0-Frontage Ft Urban Land


Personal Automobiles

7-Autos, 0-Motorcycles with $250,000/$500,000/$100,000 or $300,000 CSL Primary
0-Autos, 0-Motorcycles with $500,000/$500,000/$100,000 or $500,000 CSL or Higher Primary
3-Total Drivers 0-Drivers under the age of 21 0-Drivers with a Major Moving Violation



Watercraft/Unlicensed Vehicles/JetSki

NOT COVERED



Business Property

NOT COVERED



Business Automobiles

NOT COVERED

All contents of this site are property of PersonalUmbrella.com Insurance Services, Inc. 1999 to 2009
California Insurance License #: 0D08438

Just this week I had Chubb and Cincinnati quote for our household.

FWIW- SW Missouri, Me: 24, Wife: 26

Chubb

HO-4
100K contents, replacement (100k is minimum amount Chubb will write)
500K liability
1K deduct, Earthquake 10% contents
$480/year

15K scheduled jewelry, cash-out
$0 deduct
$224/year

Auto

2009 Ford Edge, AGREED VALUE $36XXX
500K CSL
500K UM/UIM
1K deduct
1253/year

2M Umbrella $429/year
3M Umbrella $485/year


Cincinnati

HO-4
80,000 contents, replacement
500K liability
1K deduct
Earthquake 10% contents
$375/year

15K scheduled Jewelry
$0 deduct
$150/year

Auto

2009 Ford Edge, FMV
500K CSL
500K UM/UIM
1K deduct
5K Med
783/year

2M Umbrella $340/year

zzx0282 said: Message initiated from topic: What's a good price for an umbrella policy?

2 adults/ 1 teenager.
3 cars
1 home
35806

Currently with Allstate ($421)


APPLICANT INFORMATION
0282, zzx

Huntsville AL 35806

Quote ID: Q367199




QUOTE SUMMARY


WE ARE PLEASED TO OFFER YOU THE FOLLOWING QUOTATION
BASED UPON THE INFORMATION YOU ENTERED.

Personal Umbrella Quote Coverage Limit Annual
Premium
Select
Limit Coverage A
Umbrella Limits $1,000,000 $415
$2,000,000 $664
$3,000,000 $905
$4,000,000 $1,141
$5,000,000 $1,370
Select
Limit Coverage B
Excess Uninsured and
Underinsured Motorist None $0
$1,000,000 $150
WARNING: TO INCLUDE UM/UIM COVERAGE: Primary UM/UIM Automobile Limit must be at least a minimum of $250,000/$500,000.
Policy Fee $0


Date Note Summary Text

10/27/2009 Note Type: New Quote

geo123 said: mathfaster said: geo123 said: mathfaster said: I pay $600/yr to State Farm for a 1M umbrella policy. My policy is higher as I am grandfathered in to a coverage State Farm no longer offers to new policy holders. I am insured for $1M for underinsured and uninsured motorists. Not an unlikely event in CA. State Farm also requires that the auto limits be 300/100.What is the advantage of your policy that justifies paying a much higher policy premium for it? Does it provide additional coverages that are excluded from cheaper and newer umbrella policies?

It provides payments to me of up to $1M if someone is underinsured or uninsured and they hit me and I am injured and my bills are higher than their insurance liability provides. You cannot get this today from State Farm.
You are paying 2 to 3 times more for your umbrella policy than you'd presumably pay if you were to accept a regular umbrella without $1MM underinsured/uninsured limits. Wouldn't you be able to increase your underinsured and uninsured coverage limits on the underlying auto policy to $1MM for a lot less than you are paying?


FWIW, I just got my bill for umbrella for next year. Added 1 car to the 2 we have and 1 teenage driver. Now the $1MM umbrella goes from $600 to $1200. I called the agent and they said that without the underinsured and uninsured $1MM my rates would be $659 with the 3 cars and 1 teenage driver. Underlying underinsured and uninsured would be 100/300. Too low. So raising them decreases the $600 differential. I have another month before I have to renew. I am weighing my options.

mathfaster said: FWIW, I just got my bill for umbrella for next year. Added 1 car to the 2 we have and 1 teenage driver. Now the $1MM umbrella goes from $600 to $1200. I called the agent and they said that without the underinsured and uninsured $1MM my rates would be $659 with the 3 cars and 1 teenage driver. Underlying underinsured and uninsured would be 100/300. Too low. So raising them decreases the $600 differential. I have another month before I have to renew. I am weighing my options.I am still not quite following: if increasing the underlying underinsured/uninsured coverage to $1MM would cost you less than $600 or so, then you'd be better off doing that and switching your umbrella to the new type, as you'd have the exact same coverage for less.

Also, have you tried shopping around? Without any additional risk factors other than a teenage driver, it seems a bit strange that the best that you can do on a $1MM umbrella is $659.

P.S.
This is very small potatoes, but one of the things that irritates me about State Farm is the fact that at least in our state, their rental car reimbursement endorsement to the auto policy limits your reimbursement to 80% of daily rental. Every other insurance company that I've shopped provides 100% reimbursement up to the selected daily limit. Hence, that factor alone has caused me to stay away from State Farm every time that their quote was close to a competitor's quote. I guess we all have our own pet peeves

geo123 said: mathfaster said: FWIW, I just got my bill for umbrella for next year. Added 1 car to the 2 we have and 1 teenage driver. Now the $1MM umbrella goes from $600 to $1200. I called the agent and they said that without the underinsured and uninsured $1MM my rates would be $659 with the 3 cars and 1 teenage driver. Underlying underinsured and uninsured would be 100/300. Too low. So raising them decreases the $600 differential. I have another month before I have to renew. I am weighing my options.I am still not quite following: if increasing the underlying underinsured/uninsured coverage to $1MM would cost you less than $600 or so, then you'd be better off doing that and switching your umbrella to the new type, as you'd have the exact same coverage for less.

Also, have you tried shopping around? Without any additional risk factors other than a teenage driver, it seems a bit strange that the best that you can do on a $1MM umbrella is $659.

P.S.
This is very small potatoes, but one of the things that irritates me about State Farm is the fact that at least in our state, their rental car reimbursement endorsement to the auto policy limits your reimbursement to 80% of daily rental. Every other insurance company that I've shopped provides 100% reimbursement up to the selected daily limit. Hence, that factor alone has caused me to stay away from State Farm every time that their quote was close to a competitor's quote. I guess we all have our own pet peeves


I may be shopping around. Like I said I am weighing my options. I have been with State Farm for over 20 years. Once every few years I do shop around. State Farm meets or beats the competition. I have homeowner's with them as well. Your suggestion is a good one. The question becomes I am grandfathered into underinsured and uninsured for $1MM and I am guessing I cannot get the same coverage if I drop it. Otherwise why would I be grandfathered in? Given some of the other insurance companies out there my understanding is that State Farm is pretty good about standing up to their liabilities. After the Katrina fiasco I wonder if this is really true. I have my doubts but some others are worse I am sure.

there are insurers that offer a standalone umbrella policy so you dont need to move your auto or home away from state farm if you dont want to.

search archived threads for title word standalone.

I have a standalone umbrella bc my auto and home insurers cannot be placed competitively with just one company

Skipping 2 Messages...
SUCKISSTAPLES said: there are insurers that offer a standalone umbrella policy so you dont need to move your auto or home away from state farm if you dont want to.

search archived threads for title word standalone.

I have a standalone umbrella bc my auto and home insurers cannot be placed competitively with just one company


Thanks. I looked up your old thread on standalone umbrella: http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/718373?highlight_key=y&k...

One of the reasons I am probably paying so much as a live in a high rate zip code in CA. There was a link to rates for RLI (A Warren Buffet Co. I believe) http://my.rlicorp.com/Products/rates/CA%280806%29.pdf Two things stand out. The increase for underage drivers and the rates depending on the underlying policies in effect as well as classification by zip code.

P.S. I used the RLI rate quote and got a price of $549 for $1MM but that was ONLY if the underlying coverage was 250/500. Right now mine are 100/300 and the State Farm Rate for the $1MM is $659 WITH 100/300 (RLI won't insure me at 100/300). This is without coverage of $1MM for underinsured and uninsured up to $1MM. That rate would be $1200.



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