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kantscholar said:   Prices move on supply and demand. If someone wants to own part of FB, they can at whatever the market price is. Think of the market as an actual market and not as a quasi-investing casino.
If people see a stock price of a big named company holding up at a price, then they will begin to feel comfortable with the stock at that price. It shouldn't be that way, but it often is. If it weren't a big casino, would/should it even be valued at $38? I wonder what % of the IPO investors were treating it like a casino.

kantscholar said:   I'm happy to have those people pissed off and out of the market--it will bring more stabilization to the markets as a whole.
It would be nice.

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I imagine that most people who wanted IPO shares of Facebook wanted them ONLY because they thought it'd open at 2 or 3x what they paid for them and they could sell their shares at the open. You could see this train wreck coming from a mile away. Even Jim Cramer said to stay away, multiple times, in the week before the IPO... for these reasons.

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kantscholar said:   
As for a "fake run-up in the price of FB stock", that doesn't make any sense. Prices move on supply and demand. If someone wants to own part of FB, they can at whatever the market price is. Think of the market as an actual market and not as a quasi-investing casino. That's why I have no sympathy for the people who were trying to day-trade FB after they knew there were liquidity issues and matching problems due to volume. If you put in an order for 100 shares at 41.35, that suggests to me that you want to own those 100 shares if I can get them for you at 41.35. Why you want to own them at 41.35 at 11:15am but not want to own them at 41.35 at 11:45am is only a function of you trying to day-trade the shares. It's why I'm not "missing the point" about the problems on Friday. The people who got screwed were the ones who see the market as a casino and not as a genuine investment vehicle. I'm happy to have those people pissed off and out of the market--it will bring more stabilization to the markets as a whole.


a. despite the supposed 'sense' of it (or lackthereof), Morgan Stanley bought back upwards of 300 million of shares to keep stock above waterline and if reports coming out are correct, they have a rice paper thin profit margin as a result, and may actually lose some $ on this deal. now... if limit trading was not virtually frozen, most of use would not be having this conversation here as we would have -banked-. Well, I would have anyway (i.e. $38 limit order (changed from 40) when stock opened trending down from 44, My exit was predefined as 5%. Would have been an easy 6 grand.
b. I'm sorry, who is asking for your sympathy? I was just trying to explain something to you. Now you wanna pretend like you understood from the get-go, lol
c. the chicken came before the egg. obviously if people knew they couldn't execute a single transaction and it would be held in limbo, they wouldn't waste their time trying. hypothetical, but If one put in a limit order for 41.35 while price was at say... 44 a share, cancelled 2 min later, and then in 5 hours (after hours no less when trade necessarily expired) the price hit 41.35 and my order 'matched', then that's absolutely garbage, and you're lying when you say suggest such a trading market is acceptable.
d. y'up, you're still missing the point. the is rhetorical btw.
e. spare me your value philosophy Immanuel Buffet.

kantscholar said:   I imagine that most people who wanted IPO shares of Facebook wanted them ONLY because they thought it'd open at 2 or 3x what they paid for them and they could sell their shares at the open. You could see this train wreck coming from a mile away. Even Jim Cramer said to stay away, multiple times, in the week before the IPO... for these reasons.

See now, you say that, but it is exactly what MS did that made it a pretty decent flip bet, had we all enjoyed liquidity, and many of those same people (inc. myself) would have had a nice premium on our dollar had NASDAQ not put their head in their butts; provided nothing but frustration and incometence; and a global embarrassment, dare I say disgrace to the U.S. Stock Market as a whole.

Jim Cramer... lol. From an 'investment' standpoint, nobody disagrees with you or tht schlep. As you already alluded, nobody was trying to 'invest' on Friday, but turn a buck. Same thing people do every earnings season when they investment in a company 10 minutes before a company announces and withdraw 24 hours after. Ergo, I'd imagine your mantra takes qualm with many people here, the MMs, the professional day traders et al. inc. regular retailers like me. Cool.... maybe see you at the casino on Monday nevertheless. After the things I've seen take place w/ various companies in the last 4 weeks, It couldn't be honestly characterized as anything but.

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You forced my hand.

kantscholar said:   MS, GS, and JPM can just keep buying shares if people want to sell them. As I said on Friday, if I knew that three companies with a nearly endless pool of cash was backstopping a stock at some price, I'd love to get into that stock at that price.

It was trading around 38 a few times friday. Ample opportunity to get in. Why didn't you?


As for people shorting FB, you can't short if there aren't shares to borrow. At any point, people know exactly where the short positions are, which shares have been borrowed, etc. It's very easy to hand a short's ass to them by artificially moving the stock price up and forcing them to cover their shares.

Yeah, it must be easy. Is this how you gain your 2-4% every month?

As for a "fake run-up in the price of FB stock", that doesn't make any sense.

Neither does much of what you say.

Prices move on supply and demand.

Such a trite thing to say. Water is wet.

Think of the market as an actual market and not as a quasi-investing casino.

The other day, you wrote that investing is like poker. Now it's not a "quasi-investing" casino?

That's why I have no sympathy for the people who were trying to day-trade FB after they knew there were liquidity issues and matching problems due to volume.

Who asked you for sympathy?

If you put in an order for 100 shares at 41.35, that suggests to me that you want to own those 100 shares if I can get them for you at 41.35. Why you want to own them at 41.35 at 11:15am but not want to own them at 41.35 at 11:45am is only a function of you trying to day-trade the shares.

Are you for real? People didn't want it at 41.35 because the price DROPPED TO 38!!!! Why would you want it at 41.35 when it is trading for 38?

It's why I'm not "missing the point" about the problems on Friday.

You are missing the point.

The people who got screwed were the ones who see the market as a casino and not as a genuine investment vehicle.

A few days ago, you went on and on about investing being like poker. Now this?

I'm happy to have those people pissed off and out of the market--it will bring more stabilization to the markets as a whole.

You think a few retailer investors are destabilizing the market? You think retailer investors caused the flash crash, the market crash of 2008/2009, the FB fiasco? Give me a break.

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Looks like we may have a bit of a bounce coming this week as we're oversold. Will be selling off some of my positions but probably not going completely out of being short yet.

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kihne said:   germanpope said:   kihne said:   denbo32 said:   I had a buy order for AAPL at 570 this morning. Ah well missed it. AAPL going to new high this week since I cheaped out a few bucks.

I heard $575 was more likely a bouncing point, and waited a few minutes to make sure it bounced off around $575 and jumped in.
Hope it goes $595 or $605 by end of this week.


how is this any different than playing a stock between $11.50 and $11.90?


If somebody puts a gun on my head and tells me to buy one stock, I will buy AAPL.
That's only one stock I have confidence that WILL BOUNCE after 10% drop.
It worked like charm buying dip on APPL 4 times so far this year.

edit: AAPL is not A stock, it's THE stock to me.



where is AAPL at now?

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borisr said:   Another good read Luckily, One Trader Pushed Wrong Buttons

If you're not a WSJ subscriber it's kind of a joke without a punchline.

The Facebook Inc. IPO left some investors seething. For Jared White, it left him feeling very lucky.
"I seriously got struck by lightning and survived," the 31-year-old Austin, Texas, trader said of his experiences amid the confusion that engulfed one of the highest-profile initial public offerings ever.
At around 10:45 a.m. Friday, Mr. White says, he placed an order to buy 30,000 Facebook shares, setting as his limit price $43 a share, at the opening of trading on the Nasdaq Stock Market, scheduled for 11 a.m.
But the opening was delayed, and at 11:08 a.m., Mr. White accidentally canceled his ... [pay to see the rest]

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ChefJoe said:   borisr said:   Another good read Luckily, One Trader Pushed Wrong ButtonsIf you're not a WSJ subscriber it's kind of a joke without a punchline.Just paste the headline into Google and click on the first result; it'll let you read the whole thing.
A couple quotes from the article:
"Across the market, orders that had been placed between 11:11 a.m. and 11:30 a.m. had fallen into some kind of a black hole.
That meant Mr. White's re-entered order was never recognized."
"Nasdaq officials said Sunday they are looking into compensating some investors as a result of technical problems."

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govenar said:   
"Nasdaq officials said Sunday they are looking into compensating some investors as a result of technical problems."


Good luck with that without putting up a fight.

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Looks like the FB $38 backstop is still there pre-market. How is this not manipulation again?

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no, it's not (doesn't seem anyway). It's ask is $37.17 as of 8:33EST. i predicted (to myeself) it would drop in AM as they may not pump in pre, but it will be interesting to see what happens at bell huh?! I'll def. be watching from sidelines. New Rule: Don't play w/ stocks that can't be sold back! :/

Did you see the cover of WSJ this morning?

'Nasdaq's Facebook Problem'

Exchange Says Glitches Affected Millions of Shares; IPO System to be Redesigned.


Should be!


"This was not our finest hour," said Nasdaq OMX gRoup Chief Execuitive Rovert Greeifeld.


I'll say!

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36.93 bid now, this could get ugly. 5% haircut could be a nice start

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^^^ if it makes a large jump, I see that as a Morgan Stanley prop. Don't know how they'll keep up with sell off tho. The litany of scammed retailers continues... futures is looking ground.


poor Zinga znga investor sentiment.

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called and complained about the FB cancel pending issue and I recieved alot of free trades

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^^^ nice! Scottrade? do you have to get burned by them first?

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I got this really awful feeling that today FB is going to rise. Looking bad for it now in PM but still have that stupid gut feeling.

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mariusz said:   36.93 bid now, this could get ugly. 5% haircut could be a nice start
Now 36.5
I wonder it would reach below 35 today and ZNGA below 6.5

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All this green can't hold up today right?

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chaddi said:   mariusz said:   36.93 bid now, this could get ugly. 5% haircut could be a nice start
Now 36.5
I wonder it would reach below 35 today?
ZNGA below 6.5


some are jumping in on the notion that MS will bolster the price. this is turning into quite the spectacle!

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any one trading DMND? please share your opinion

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YHOO above 16 on alibaba deal

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morgan stanley now pumping!

edit: floor just came out, i saw 35 spp!

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in for 1k FB @ 36.49. Gonna keep a tight trailing stop loss on it.

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FB 35.72

Edit: I didn't buy it, just stating it is 35.72, now.

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bingFB said:   in for 1k FB @ 36.49. Gonna keep a tight trailing stop loss on it.
MM's will trigger it, I guarantee you that. You watch.... and then right after they get you stock will reverse.

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fatwa113t3r said:   FB 35.72

Edit: I didn't buy it, just stating it is 35.72, now.


Going under $30 eventually anyway, no doubt there.

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stopped out at $35.25. Quick 1240 loss to start the day.

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morgan stanley interfering now, I guarantee you. new bottom is 35. they are providing resistance, it's obvious.

watch time and sales. i don't know how $ they have left, but there is a floor at 35.

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FB jumping around at 35

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In for some CAT at $89.75. Going longggg so I may be slaughtered soon

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bingFB said:   stopped out at $35.25. Quick 1240 loss to start the day.

This was easy money for MM's, I should have warned you earlier.

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sheesh, i wonder what the contract looks like. 'we'll hold 38 1st day', '35 2nd day', etc.

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will probably wait until afternoon to see if rally holds before selling off some short positions, no major jump this morning, and normal bear market activity is green in the morning then down in the afternoon.

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who gets in on fb @ 35 and sells on MS faux-rallies? this is INSANE.

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hakujin said:   sheesh, i wonder what the contract looks like. 'we'll hold 38 1st day', '35 2nd day', etc.
They will likely let it drift down over several days, to avoid creating a panic exodus. Grandmas got hosed again courtesy of their scammer financial advisors.....

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crashed through 35. At 34.21.

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bottom dropped, never mind. morgan can't keep up. the sales are EXTREME... in 34 and dropping!

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-8% already..... nice

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-10%!

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