Okay, so here's an interesting question concerning a lease......
Background 1. MIL lives in house w/ BF 2. BF moves out at end of initial lease 3. MIL finds roommate 4. Roommate gives leasing company deposit, and pays her share of rent directly to leasing company for 7 months 5. Roommate decides to move out and announces that she never signed the lease (apparently overlooked by leasing company) 6. Roommate has lawyer look over the situation and lawyer states that since RM didn't sign lease, RM is subletting from MIL. 7. LC sends email to RM & MIL stating that LC accepts RM notice to vacate and that since MIL is LL, MIL is responsible to refund deposit.
Okay, I can see plenty of stuff wrong with this situation. First, MIL and RM are acting like a couple of bickering college kids who just moved in together. And these ladies are in their 60s! Anyway, I can buy that legally, ML is subletting. However, why does it now become her problem that the LC didn't do their paperwork properly? Additionally, LC continues to act as LL by accepting the RM's notice to vacate.
Ultimate Goal - MIL wants to finish out the lease and pay only her share (she is willing to pay all utilities, etc.)
State is SC.
Let me know your opinions. No, you do not want pics. Trust me!
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I think step 4 is going to get the leasing company in trouble. They can't just take a deposit without any paperwork. Did your MIL sign a lease change or pay a lease change fee?
As tante asked, did your MIL sign a lease after the initial lease? If yes, what are the terms of that lease? That is what governs the deal between MIL and LC. Does the lease say she is individually responsible for full rent for the entire term of the lease?
Is RM's name mentioned anywhere in the lease or in the application for a lease? Is this a month-to-month continuation after the end of the initial lease. Need details
There are plenty of threads about small claims suits regarding improperly managed deposits, I'm not sure who you would sue if the situation went through as you describe it though.
It's a year lease that ends 4/2010. She signed a new lease. I don't have a copy of the lease, but let's assume that both tenants are listed on the lease together (this is how I do mine). That would make each tenant responsible for the entire lease. I'm not disputing that she is responsible for the entire lease. However, what I am disputing is that the leasing company is trying to say that MIL is now responsible for their error (not having other tenant sign lease). Not only that she is responsible for their error, but that they are giving the roommate permission to move out without penalty, thus making MIL solely responsible for the remainder of the lease. I don't think they can do that. Or at least they shouldn't be able to do that.
christoj879 said:There are plenty of threads about small claims suits regarding improperly managed deposits, I'm not sure who you would sue if the situation went through as you describe it though.
I don't think she's wanting to sue anyone. Although, she does want to prevent from being sued herself. All she really wants is to finish out the lease without having to pay the roommates share. In fact, I'd bet she'd be willing to move in January or February. But she doesn't want to be forced to move at the end of November (when roommate moves).
tante said:I think step 4 is going to get the leasing company in trouble. They can't just take a deposit without any paperwork. Did your MIL sign a lease change or pay a lease change fee?
Perhaps they aren't admitting to doing that. OP states that leasing company thinks MIL should refund the deposit that's in their bank account. Perhaps they are claiming that MIL took the deposit?
Message edited by: taxmantoo on 2009-10-27 18:01:20 CDT
taxmantoo said:tante said:I think step 4 is going to get the leasing company in trouble. They can't just take a deposit without any paperwork. Did your MIL sign a lease change or pay a lease change fee?
Perhaps they aren't admitting to doing that. OP states that leasing company thinks MIL should refund the deposit that's in their bank account. Perhaps they are claiming that MIL took the deposit?
No, I don't think they are disputing that they accepted the roomate's 1/2 of the deposit. I think that what they are saying is that MIL should refund the roommate her 1/2 of the deposit and then MIL will be refunded full deposit (by leasing company) at the end of the lease.
bbr said:It's a year lease that ends 4/2010. She signed a new lease. I don't have a copy of the lease, but let's assume that both tenants are listed on the lease together (this is how I do mine). That would make each tenant responsible for the entire lease. I'm not disputing that she is responsible for the entire lease. However, what I am disputing is that the leasing company is trying to say that MIL is now responsible for their error (not having other tenant sign lease). Not only that she is responsible for their error, but that they are giving the roommate permission to move out without penalty, thus making MIL solely responsible for the remainder of the lease. I don't think they can do that. Or at least they shouldn't be able to do that. Let us assume both names are on lease and also assume RM siged the lease (which presumably states both MIL and RM are individually and severally responsible for the full rent). The LC can completely come after MIL (they can but are not required to to pursue PM) for the full rent. I am sure you understand this and hope a 60-year old does as well.
Regarding the deposit, ask RM to go pound sand since she did not give it to MIL. What verbal agreement, if any, did MIL have with RM (I am assuming there was no written agreement). Sue RM for her share of rent for the remainder of lease. Fact that her name is on lease, and she did make payments to LC for the months she lived should help MIL.
bbr said:taxmantoo said:tante said:I think step 4 is going to get the leasing company in trouble. They can't just take a deposit without any paperwork. Did your MIL sign a lease change or pay a lease change fee?
Perhaps they aren't admitting to doing that. OP states that leasing company thinks MIL should refund the deposit that's in their bank account. Perhaps they are claiming that MIL took the deposit?
No, I don't think they are disputing that they accepted the roomate's 1/2 of the deposit. I think that what they are saying is that MIL should refund the roommate her 1/2 of the deposit and then MIL will be refunded full deposit (by leasing company) at the end of the lease. LC has no obligation to return any part of the deposit to anyone till the terms of the lease are satisfied and the unit is returned back in good condition. However, MIL is also not responsible for returning RM's share of deposit, absent an explicit agreement between them to that effect.
Again, to be clear, I am not disputing that MIL is responsible for entire lease (the roommate is also responsible for the entire lease). So, for example, MIL & roommate get in fight, roommate up and leaves. MIL is now responsible for 100% of rent.
What I am disputing is that the leasing company gives roommate permission to leave and then makes MIL responsible for 100% of rent without her consent. How is the leasing company's error now MIL's problem?
uutxs said: Let us assume both names are on lease and also assume RM siged the lease (which presumably states both MIL and RM are individually and severally responsible for the full rent).
This is part of the issue. RM apparently did not sign the lease. Lease was handled by leasing company. MIL had no idea RM did not sign the lease.
bbr said:Again, to be clear, I am not disputing that MIL is responsible for entire lease (the roommate is also responsible for the entire lease). So, for example, MIL & roommate get in fight, roommate up and leaves. MIL is now responsible for 100% of rent.
What I am disputing is that the leasing company gives roommate permission to leave and then makes MIL responsible for 100% of rent without her consent. How is the leasing company's error now MIL's problem? MIL is 100% responsible period; you agree with that. LC usually pursues all avenues to get their money. If MIL is the more "responsible kind", that is who they go after. Perhaps the fact that RM didnt sign the lease might make it legally difficult for them to pursue RM (just my guess), hence they are after MIL. I dont quite understand the "leasing company gives roommate permission to leave". Who cares, MIL signed, she is on the hook (sucks I know but that is what it means to sign a lease).
Best option for MIL to sue RM; I dont believe she can legally fight the LC (other than being a deadbeat and not pay rent, enjoy the free house till she gets evicted etc.).
uutxs said:bbr said:Again, to be clear, I am not disputing that MIL is responsible for entire lease (the roommate is also responsible for the entire lease). So, for example, MIL & roommate get in fight, roommate up and leaves. MIL is now responsible for 100% of rent.
What I am disputing is that the leasing company gives roommate permission to leave and then makes MIL responsible for 100% of rent without her consent. How is the leasing company's error now MIL's problem? MIL is 100% responsible period; you agree with that. LC usually pursues all avenues to get their money. If MIL is the more "responsible kind", that is who they go after. Perhaps the fact that RM didnt sign the lease might make it legally difficult for them to pursue RM (just my guess), hence they are after MIL. I dont quite understand the "leasing company gives roommate permission to leave". Who cares, MIL signed, she is on the hook (sucks I know but that is what it means to sign a lease).
Best option for MIL to sue RM; I dont believe she can legally fight the LC (other than being a deadbeat and not pay rent, enjoy the free house till she gets evicted etc.).
Okay, I guess I haven't given enough detail to be clear.
MIL signed a new lease. Roommate was supposed to sign the lease but the leasing company apparently failed to make sure roommate signed before she moved in.
Now, the roommate has given the leasing company 30 days notice that she is leaving 5 months before lease is up. Leasing company has accepted her notice and given her permission to leave without penalty. MIL did not consent to this.
Leasing company expects MIL to refund roommate's portion of the deposit and pay 100% of the rent for the remainder of the lease. The leasing company has not given MIL the option to leave in 30 days without penalty like they have the roommate.
What it looks like to me is that the leasing company is trying to weasel out of their responsibilities by claiming MIL is subletting to roommate even though it was the leasing company's mistake that caused the subletting. My question to all the internet lawyers out there is.....Can the leasing company weasel out of their responsibilities and make MIL solely responsible for the remainder of the lease without her consent?
Yes they can do this. RM had no lease with LC. She had lease with MIL, even though nothing was signed. The deposit is an issue though. You MAY be able to argue that a lease existed with the LC and RM due to accepting a deposit but that would be hard.
mewannaxbox said:Yes they can do this. RM had no lease with LC. She had lease with MIL, even though nothing was signed. The deposit is an issue though. You MAY be able to argue that a lease existed with the LC and RM due to accepting a deposit but that would be hard.
MIL needs to sue RM, done. Next case.
If this is the case, then the leasing company would not have the authority to grant the roommate permission to leave without penalty. The leasing company has given the roommate permission to leave without penalty in writing.
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