MaddHatter's Un-AOR aka Cancel-O-Rama aka "too many damn cards for no compelling reasons"

After ascertaining there was interest, in this thread I will try to chronicle the cancellation of a number of credit cards, and ask for any thoughts, opinions and experiences around such before, during, after. Backstory is:

I have over 30 CCs (mostly personal, some biz) including the wife's handful, very many obtained over a couple of AORs in the previous few years (biggest cache detailed in AOR thread from Aug '07. ...several of those listed are no longer with me). With chances of existing cards tossing worthwhile offers my way surely being nil, I'd just as well not have the "maintenance" of all these cards, or make my wife faint when she opens up the "master info doc" if I pass. Losing the ability to consolidate/reallocate and the general landscape makes scaling back the obvious choice for me. There's 5 we use in the ol' optimal reward rotation, and then when I put the rest into piles I get 6 to keep with various reasoning and 13 to cancel.

CreditKarma score at 751, I got a new mortgage (sold to US Bank) in April and have no need for my credit score...would like to keep all the accounts I decide I want to keep is about it. Should I stagger the cancellations over time/by issuer, request CLIs on cards I'm keeping before/after/by issuer? Or the hell with it and just do whatever? If asked why I'm cancelling, I plan to just tell the truth, I have too many cards that I don't use and don't want to maintain, and the way the industry's looking to be going I felt it better to remove myself from the game...fees...etc. If asked what could make me stay I have only "2% back on everything or 5% on EDP, or 0% no-fee BT offers", but really, I'm not expecting to be asked...to be given retention offers, and I don't particularly care.

The sum CL I cancel for personal as of now I think should approach but not pass 20% of total if I can do math right now.

Cards in the reward optimization rotation
Juniper Emigrant Direct - $5000, 08/07
Citi Driver's Edge - $17200, 08/07
Discover Platinum/Get More - $1500, ?/01
Citi Forward - $7000, 08/09
Chase Cash Rewards - $6000, 09/06

Cards I've rationalized to keep at least for now
BOA Platinum Visa - $11500, 08/07
Chase Platinum/Slate - $1000, 11/05 well crap, Chase says this was closed 01/08
Chase GM Business MC- $24000, 08/07
Citi Diamond AMEX - $4500, 09/06
Discover Business - $12200, 08/07
National City Personal - $12500, 08/07 PNC closed 3/7/10
US Bank Baylor Alum* - $7000, 08/07

Cards on the chopping block
AMEX Blue* - $2000, 8/07 Cancelled 10/30/09
AMEX Blue #2 (formerly In: Chicago) - $500, 8/07 Cancelled 10/30/09
Bank Atlantic Business MC - $14500, 08/07 Cancelled 10/30/09
BOA Worldpoints Platinum MC - $1000, 08/07 Cancelled 10/30/09...or not really as I had to cancel again 3/29/10 after receiving a replacement card
Chase Sony Visa - $1000, 08/07 Cancelled 11/02/09
Chase Flex Rewards Visa* (was WaMu ESPN) - $5700, 08/07 Chase cancelled it 10/25 due to inactivity, letter arrived 10/31
CitiBusiness MC - $18000, 08/07
Citi CashReturns MC - $4800, 09/08 Tried to cancel 11/2, retentions offered 2% back for 3 months and $1000 CLI, took it
Discover Gas Platinum* - $3000 09/06 (just need to hit $20 CB and cashout next month)
M&T Bank Business - $12000, 08/07 Cancelled 10/30/09
National City Business - $5000, 08/07 Cancelled 10/30/09
RBS Kroger 123 - $3000, 08/07 Cancelled 10/30/09

Citi Phillips MC - $500, ?/03 When I called Citi 11/2 they showed this acct closed, but 2 reps couldn't tell me exactly when
Best Buy store card - $?, ?/03ish
...really, I'm not sure if these two are even still open, I was told the BB card needed a letter mailed in to close and I said screw that, and the Citi card looks good online-access wise so maybe Citi hasn't killed it despite my thinking I could cut up the card and put it out of mind. Perhaps I'll call on it at some point.

* = On the fence about, for no specific reasons, just getting into questions of how many cards by all issuers to keep if any, how many to cancel in total, if there could ever be any benefit in keeping it..

Interesting to see what's FW general opinion on this. Green to the OP for the subject.

At least keep the high limit cards open, you will likely never be able to get that kind of credit so easily ever again...and even if there is no use for it in the next couple years, its better to have than not have

Thinking on Sis' comment for a second, and realizing I have $14 in rewards on the Discover Biz card I could maybe get to $20 sometime, I moved that card & the Chase GM Biz to the keep list. I can't imagine a dire enough scenario where I'd pay the interest to use them, but I suppose nothing wrong with having the option there.

Moved other AMEX to the kill list too, they never gave me a decent enough CL to BT, no rewards worth purchasing with, screw em.

If it were me I would get rid of these if you don't need them
AMEX Blue* - $2000, 8/07
AMEX Blue #2 (formerly In: Chicago) - $500, 8/07
Bank Atlantic Business MC - $14500, 08/07
BOA Worldpoints Platinum MC - $1000, 08/07
Chase Sony Visa - $1000, 08/07
Chase Flex Rewards Visa* (formerly WaMu ESPN Visa) - $5700, 08/07
M&T Bank Business - $12000, 08/07
National City Business - $5000, 08/07
RBS Kroger 123 - $3000, 08/07

Might keep
CitiBusiness MC - $18000, 08/07 Citi buis requires proof buis income now so you may not be able to get back
Citi CashReturns MC - $4800, 09/08 see if limit can be xfered to another card
Discover Gas Platinum* - $3000 09/06 (just need to hit $20 CB and cashout next month) convert to more and use for rolling 5% (higher limit and you can do 2x bonus category with 2 cards)

I'm in a similar situation, but don't see much benefit in closing cards. It's not much effort to make one purchase every 4 months or so per card...cheap rainy day insurance. I can understand the sentiment of wanting to simplify things down, but going from 30 cards to 20 doesn't really accomplish that goal. I think that a lot of the credit score loss/utilization increase fear mongering is a bit of woo woo...if you pay your bills on time and aren't overextended in your overall debt levels, your credit score is going to be high...does it really make a difference if you have a 760 vs. 800? Of course, I talk big, but I'm sticking with my pile o' cards.

I am curious about the subject of continuing AOR ramafications for closing vs. keeping cards open. The days of having credit 2-3x HHI have passed unless you have bankroll to prove worthiness. My question (thanks OP for bringing up the topic), is it better to keep many lines and high limits open when applying for new cards or to cancel many of them outright before applying for new AOR cards? Many issuers now do not reallocate or even consolidate old cards into new BT cards. Is it better to cancel cards and moderate limits to attempt better results of new higher limit BT cards or to negotiate over the phone in attepmts to reallocate? From 5/09 during my last AOR I started having trouble doing this with issuers and reports have only gotten worse. Despite trouble with reallocation the number of BT cards has thinned quite a bit. I appreciate any thoughts as I am about to launch AOR 3.0. I am trying to get a better feel for how to approach issuer's market restructurization...

CC issuers will be doing the canceling for you, as they continue to trim their balance sheets....so people looking to "simplify" by reducing the # of cards need only do NOTHING (which is always the simplest thing to do),,,the cc issuers will take care of the simplification for you.

I dont think necessarily that its a great idea, but it may turn out to be when you get bonus offers to keep certain cards open. Could easily make a few hundred dollars worth of reward points/credits from this, and thats why I cant wait to see the results.

Good comments from all. I might consider moving Citibusiness to "keep" as I didn't realize the new req of business income documentation...though again, how much do I truly think I could need, and quickly getting into the point of "well, 20 open cards ain't all that simple".

And PoorPence's comment: "You may close some, and later end up with none." Exactly what I'm worried about (the only thing).... and that worry mostly pertains to my reward cards, others wouldn't be the end of the world. And since I'm using the reward cards regularly, paying in full each month (or perhaps that's a bad thing now, durr), and never approach CL's, I guess I'm thinking "surely the bastages wouldn't....would they?".

Also, I will in fact aim to bring up consolidation of limit to another card, just recent developments have me expecting no-go's on this all around.

Currently thinking first calls might be made tomorrow or Monday, not sure, also not sure how many this may be.

My take on personal cards:
If you are of the opinion that credit gaming is dead (in the arbitrage sense of dead credit), then close as many low reward value accounts as you desire. Take a 2 year sabbatical from leveraging credit to your benefit.

I suspect that with each reduction in your available credit, there is an almost equal improvement in your credit profile appearance. Said another way, applications for new credit these days often encounter a denial reason in the form of "too much available credit considering your income."

Why not trim the hedges and create a little curb appeal? You might net yourself a decent Pre-Approved offer come 2011.

My take on business cards:
If you are of the opinion that credit gaming is dead (in the arbitrage sense of dead credit), then close all your biz cards.

If you think there's a chance to get good biz card pre-approved offers down the road, order your D & B and/or get your Experian business credit report (if you have an AMEX account you can get your Experian biz report via this link). You can also Search Experian and to a D & B search. Then close all but one tradeline (so you can appear as though you are loyal to just one issuer). Perhaps there will be a chance to garner decent pre-approved offers by 2011.

* Convert one of the chase cards to Chase BP to get 5% CashBack on gasoline @ BP Gas stations(max spending I think $400 per month) and 2% CashBack on travel (no limit)

penfed has a compltetely different underwriting process than other cc issuers

Also if you think you can proactively close cards to ensure other renain open , you are sadly mistaken, thats not the wsy it works and the only thing you are guarabteeing is premature closure of lines which may have stayed open

It's scary, but I think I disagree with SIS as well. I believe it is no longer axiomatic that more available credit is an unqualified good. I now believe there is a "sweet spot" between adequate available credit and too much credit in which one must be positioned in order to qualify for new offers, unsolicited or not. Since MaddHatter proposes only to take the first step of reducing credit, we won't know whether he finds the sweet spot. I still think we will gain valuable information, if not now, then a year from now when he applies for new credit.

MaddHatter said:
Cards on the chopping block
Bank Atlantic Business MC - $14500, 08/07
CitiBusiness MC - $18000, 08/07
M&T Bank Business - $12000, 08/07

While I generally think that closing credit cards is a bad idea I can see the utility in getting rid of clutter. I would recomment that you take the three large credit line cards off the chopping block. Having large credit line cards with a long history should help your credit score.

jameshasty said: MaddHatter said:
Cards on the chopping block
Bank Atlantic Business MC - $14500, 08/07
CitiBusiness MC - $18000, 08/07
M&T Bank Business - $12000, 08/07While I generally think that closing credit cards is a bad idea I can see the utility in getting rid of clutter. I would recomment that you take the three large credit line cards off the chopping block. Having large credit line cards with a long history should help your credit score.Business credit lines have no impact on credit rating/scores. The only consistent exception to this rule is Discover.

peteypablo said: It's scary, but I think I disagree with SIS as well. I believe it is no longer axiomatic that more available credit is an unqualified good. I now believe there is a "sweet spot" between adequate available credit and too much credit in which one must be positioned in order to qualify for new offers, unsolicited or not. Since MaddHatter proposes only to take the first step of reducing credit, we won't know whether he finds the sweet spot. I still think we will gain valuable information, if not now, then a year from now when he applies for new credit.From credit cards.com, the top 10 worst credit card mistakes. At the top of the list?

1. Getting too many

"...Even if the cards have zero balances, multiple open accounts could cause a lender to question what could happen if the account holder gives in to temptation and maxes out on all that plastic."

Good luck with your decision, MaddHatter. Thanks also for sharing any / all details regarding effects on score(s) and/or adverse responses from your "keep list."

MadHatter said: have no need for my credit score

Use card at stores over and over again ... declare bankruptcy ..... its the "IN" thing to do.

My only vote, as said above, is keeping the BB card due to age. Age is ranked about 30% of score so it will help.

I'm just going to watch to see what happens and learn from it. Thanks for posting about it.

dcwilbur said: Interesting thread. I had given thought to doing the same as OP. Interestingly, simplifying the finances for my wife should I not wake up one morning was also one of my motivations.

I ultimately decided to do nothing. What scared me off most was contacting issuers where I have some cards I want to keep and some I don't. For example, I have several Bank of America cards that I want to keep, but I have one that I don't. I am afraid that if I call to cancel one, I am going to open my file up to scrutiny and perhaps trigger something adverse on the others.Funny you mention BofA , because that is EXACTLY what happens when a BofA cc customer calls in to close/reallocate or otherwise adjust accounts. Numerous reports of limit cuts over the past year to those who called in and had their accounts reviewed (ALL of them, whether or not they wanted service on just one of the accounts).

As Ive said before, trying to proactively game your credit is an exercise in futility. Dont do something today hoping its what a lender wants to see tomorrow. If you need credit tomorrow and they are reluctant to extend it, ASK THEM what you can do to get an approval, then take exactly those steps. Dont take steps now, ahead of time, when it may be the exact OPPOSITE of what that lender wanted to see.

barsotti0 said: Has anyone recently had any luck consolidating credt limits with a credit card company?

I'm debating trying it with two Citi-Business cards ($25K + $15K), instead of just closing the smaller one, but not sure I want to clue them in that I have two cards...

Previously merged Citi-Business accounts back around 2007, but the phone rep then was pretty pissy that I had two of the same type of business card...not sure I want to raise any red-flags in the current environment...