I have suspicions that I got unfairly screwed over by the seller's listing agent of a condo I was interested in buying. I am fairly new to buying real estate though (it is my first time), so let me know what you think!
(Tuesday) A few days ago a really good short sale opportunity came on the market. This condo is currently appraised to be around $300k, was bought for $400k back in 2005, and was now asking for $225k on the listing. The unique situation about the condo was that it had just recently been under a contract that had just fallen through (the interested buyer of that contract was the current renter living in the unit, but because he was called out of the country at the last minute, he could no longer close the deal on time). Anyway, the condo was thus back on the market and the condo listing indicated that the bank had already approved an offer for $210k; the listing asked for new offers to either match or exceed the approved $210k.
I immediately tried jumping on the deal and asked my agent if we could check out the place. The agent informed me that per the listing agent, the current tenant in the unit was still moving his things out, so that the lockbox would not be placed on the door until the next morning.
(Wednesday) 12pm: I went to go check the place out with my agent. At the unit, the lockbox was there but the key inside was missing. We knocked on the door and no one answered. There was no one inside the unit. We called the listing agent to ask about the key, and she said "the renter was still moving his things and wouldn't be done until later in the day, so the renter had removed the key." At this point, there were already two other interested buyers also waiting outside the condo unit trying to see the place. We quickly called the listing agent to see if there were any offers already on the table, and the listing agent said no. She said "the next offer I get will be the one I send to the seller and the bank for approval". It will be first come, first served." Knowing that this opportunity was a hot deal and not wanting to waste time, my agent and I decided to go ahead and submit an offer first and wait to see the place later when the key became available.
My agent and I finished writing the offer for the approved $210 (with 25% down and NO loan approval contingency). My agent assured me that our offer was really solid. I had strong financials and no contingencies in the offer. We called up the listing agent to see if there were any offers on the table yet, and she said no. We then told her we had our offer ready and were about to send it over. After faxing over our offer minutes later, we called the listing agent to make sure she received it. No answer. We left a message. We waited a while. No returned call. I was getting nervous, because I wanted to make sure I was the first offer. We tried calling her broker office and asking for her that way. We finally got a hold of her and asked that she review our offer. She confirmed that she had not received any other offers yet and that she would be sending our offer to the seller and bank THAT DAY after she reviewed it, since we were after all the "first" offer. My agent asked the listing agent to let us know of any concerns she or the seller might have with our offer after they had reviewed it, so that we could have a chance to modify it accordingly.
In my head, I was thinking that I was still willing to modify my terms if need be, or if faced with other competitive offers. I wasn't going to give up this condo that easily. Sure, the listing agent had said "first come first served," so theoretically, other offers shouldn't even have been in the picture, but I still was a little skeptical. It sounded almost too good to be true that the listing agent had established a "first come first served" policy, and that I had in fact secured the spot as the first offer. However, my agent reassured me that real estate agents are professionals and generally do not go against their own word. Anyway, the listing agent agreed to let us know of any concerns with the offer and said that she'd call us back after our offer had been approved by the seller and sent to the bank that very day. We waited around for a few hours, and the agent never called us back. My agent then called the listing agent. No answer. We left a message. No returned call. After a while, we called again and finally got a hold of her. She said she was "still reviewing the offer." At this point, it was already late in the afternoon, so my agent told me it didn't look like the listing agent was going to send our offer to the bank tonight like we had been told. I was a little worried and upset, but what could I do? Anyway, we waited all night to hear back from the agent. We heard nothing.
(Thursday) The next day, since we still had not heard back from the listing agent, my agent called her to make sure everything was still okay with our offer. The listing agent said yes and that our offer was solid except for the settlement date. She asked if we would be willing to move up the settlement date, and of course I said yes. The agent then informed us that there were now 8 offers on the table, but that she would still be sending only our offer to the seller and bank, like she had said before. I felt relieved to hear this. My agent asked the listing agent to call us back once the seller had ratified our contract. The listing agent agreed. My agent and I waited and waited all day, and the agent never called us back. My agent called her twice that day, and she did not answer. Something definitely did not seem right.
(Friday) The next morning my agent decided to try calling again and finally got a hold of the listing agent. The listing agent reassured my agent that nothing had changed, and that she was still going to show MY offer to the seller to get signed. Still no mentions of any concerns or issues with our offer at this time. The listing agent now says that she has to drive out from D.C to Philly to meet the seller to get the contract signed and that she would call us later in the day once the contract had been ratified by the seller. (sound familiar?) I don't understand what had been taking her so long to meet with the seller this whole time, and why she had not returned any of our calls, but anyway, I listened and waited. We also asked the listing agent if the condo key was available at the unit now, so that we could finally see it, and the listing agent replied "It should be there."
It was night time now. We went to the condo, and low and behold, the key was not there. We STILL were unable to see the condo unit. Seeing as how we had still not heard back from the listing agent like we were supposed to, my agent then called the listing agent to inquire about the key along with the status of our offer. No answer. We waited around all night. Nothing.
(Saturday) So this whole ordeal with the offer started on Wednesday, and it is now Saturday. Keep in mind that this entire time, I have been led to believe that my offer was fine and that it was the only offer in the process of being ratified by the seller/approved by the bank. We had told the listing agent to notify us if there were any concerns with our offer, and we had received no calls or any indications of concerns. My agent calls the listing agent again, and the agent picks up this time. The listing agent informs my agent now that she has sent ANOTHER offer to the seller and bank. Great. Was the listing agent ever going to call to tell us this news, had we not called? Given her behavior up until this point- doubtful. Anyway, this OTHER offer supposedly included an "earnest money deposit" of the full $210k offer amount. Well clearly, this offer, if real, could not have been beat and clearly, this offer would have easily been chosen as the one to be sent to the seller and the bank, if compared against mine. No questions there. Who has $210k in cash to spare as a risky upfront "earnest money deposit?" Mind you, to put down, without having even seen the condo? Not many. And so I got screwed.
In any case, I first want to say that I am a little skeptical that there ever was even this so-called other offer on the table. If such a great offer really were on the table, then why wouldn't the listing agent have informed me of it when she first knew about it, instead of dodging our calls, continuing to lead us on, and not notifying us proactively? She could have at least notified me of the offer to give me an opportunity to either MATCH it or to be dropped from consideration, BEFORE she went ahead and submitted that other offer to the seller/bank for approval. Second, even if this offer were in fact better, was it right of the listing agent to have told us that she was going to send ahead the first offer received on a "first come first served" basis? Why would she say that if she clearly was not planning on following through? I think it shady/unethical as a professional real estate agent to say one thing and do another.
So I think two things could have happened here to explain the above:
1) the listing agent realized how good of a deal this condo was and was struggling to quickly find one of her own friends/family to get in on the deal but also couldn't let the seller know that she was dragging, so she acted like she was just accepting and reviewing all offers while she was really waiting to hear back from one of her own people before notifying the seller.
I can see this as being the case, because the listing agent could have just misled the seller into thinking that she hadn't received any good offers yet and was still waiting for a "good" one. In the meanwhile, she would tell my agent and I that our offer looked fine, and use us only as a backup offer in case no one on her end could come through in time. All the while, the seller would have no clue what was going on. Later, when the listing agent's family or friend's offer came through, she would use the excuse of a "better" offer coming in as for why MY offer was not sent through. In reality, that other offer was probably no better than my offer. This theory would make sense for why the key was never made available at the condo unit also. If the seller really was located far away in "Philly" like the listing agent said, then he would have been too far removed from the situation to know that the key was never even made available to the public at all. The agent herself could very well have removed the key from the lockbox so that no one could view the unit, expecting that no one would make an offer without seeing the unit first. This would explain why she would have said "first come, first served": she thought that her friend/family's offer would have been THE first offer. This would also be why she did not return our calls after receiving our offer initially. She had realized that her "first come first served" policy had placed her in a surprising bind.
OR
2) the listing agent was just an incompetent newbie who couldn't hold to her morals and didn't know better not to promise "first come, first served" when she knew that this would not be the case if a better offer later came long. This theory is questionable however, because wouldn't a short-sale real estate agent be an agent who has had a good amount of experience already?
Anyway, I am just really upset that the agent was not upfront with me, misled me, wasted my time, did not return calls, did not initiate calls, and did not seem to make any effort to have the unit available for showing to the public. All the while, there is a good chance that this agent has gotten away with locking down this amazing deal by submitting an offer that only matches my offer at best and by misleading the seller into accepting it as the "best" offer. Do you think I am being overly cynical in my theories or is there some merit in what I am saying? Is there anything I can do to make myself feel better? I appreciate any comments or advice !
SIS is right OP. The agent could have acted for either reason you hypothosize, or a thousand others. Yes, it would have been classier had the agent better kept you abreast of the situation. But there's no evidence that the listing agent violated any obligations here.
The main lesson is to not get emotionally involved in RE offers. Other opportunities will come along, believe me.
Since you are new , get used to hearing all kinds of BS such as
"we have another offer coming in, would you like to increase yours?" (when in reality no other offer does come in) "this is a multiple bidder situation, go back and give us your highest and best" (gets someone to bid against themselves) "seller is out of town" (seller is just waiting for better offers) etc etc etc
Thats the way it works
jaydeer44
New Member
posted: Nov. 1, 2009 @ 4:33p
oh okay. thanks for all the insight. I guess I really am just a noob and was way too naive. I'll know what to expect now!
tmolloy
Member
posted: Nov. 1, 2009 @ 5:02p
Most likely #1. That's happening like crazy out here in SoCal. Never trust a seller's agent; some are there just to be on the "inside" so they can get all the deals. Think Best Buy employees and cheap laptops.
Sounds like they were setting up a deal for someone else, but they led you along to not arouse suspicion. And when you didn't give up, suddenly there was a cash offer on the table that there was no way you could beat.
I'd write the letter (to the supervisor broker) and I'd let them know you will write to whatever licensing board there is, just for kicks, as long as they have a monopoly, etc. Remember that listing agents, and maybe all agents, have a fiduciary obligation to the listing agent not to you, the buyer. Here is where the person may have screwed up, suppose you were willing to pay more, then they cost their client money, who knows though, maybe seller doesn't like money.
You should have been way skeptical when the listing agent said "first come, first served" and asked for more clarification instead of making assumptions. Listing agents must present ANY and ALL offers to the seller per the Realtor Code of Ethics. Seller can choose whichever offer they desire to work with. It doesn't matter in the least whose offer was received 1st or 12th. Yours might have been the first one presented, but that doesn't mean they won't look at and consider the other 11 offers. It would be insane for any seller to not look at all the offers. This is something your agent should know and should have explained to you.
Even in your own quotes about what she told you originally she said "the next offer I get will be the one I send to the seller and the bank for approval". It will be first come, first served."
While I wouldn't have worded it quite the way she did, she didn't lie. She didn't say she wouldn't send subsequent offers as well. "First served" could mean a lot of things, in this case I believe she meant "first looked at". One problem I see here is that your agent gave her way too much time to wait and let other offers come in. You should have given an expiration time/date and made sure your agent made it very clear to the listing agent that your offer would be no good after that point. 24 hours is more than enough time to get a contract presented and responded to by the seller.
The listing agent did nothing wrong, other than maybe not explaining to you fully what "first come, first served" really meant. She probably thought you knew or that your agent would at least explain the process. Don't call her broker, you'll look like an idiot.
You, however made several mistakes that you can, and hopefully will, learn from:
1) Not even seeing a place yet going crazy over it. 2) Not putting an expiration date in your contract to limit potential of other offers coming in 3) Getting too attached to a potential home before it's yours 4) Dwelling on and bitching about losing a deal instead of moving on
Good luck with the next one OP. Live and learn.
Crazytree
Senior Member - 7K
posted: Nov. 1, 2009 @ 11:52p
you can't always get what you want... you can't always get what you want... you can't always get what you want... but if you try sometimes you might find you get what you need
Crazytree
Senior Member - 7K
posted: Nov. 1, 2009 @ 11:57p
five minutes later this song came on on the radio.
It has been a few days over a month in my first home and we tried on a short sale when we started looking. Not worth the delay/hassle. We ended up finding a house we loved at price that was good for us.
Couple thoughts: 1) Don't go crazy over a house and make bad decisions. At the end of the day, it's still a business transaction. 2) Definitely don't submit an offer before doing a walkthrough, or if you want to go that route put in an inspection contingency. 3) Piggybacking on 2, get an inspection, $400 well spent. 4) It's still a buyers' market - if the seller wants you to do something you don't want to do, they can either pound sand and continue with the transaction or wait until they find another buyer with solid financials.
gosocks
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 2, 2009 @ 12:29a
Don't get emotionally invested in any property. Move on and find something else. Hopefully you won't need therapy after every bid you put in on a house.
ergenekon
Tired Member
posted: Nov. 2, 2009 @ 4:11a
Crazytree said: five minutes later this song came on on the radio.
christoj879 said: It has been a few days over a month in my first home and we tried on a short sale when we started looking. Not worth the delay/hassle. We ended up finding a house we loved at price that was good for us.
Couple thoughts: 1) Don't go crazy over a house and make bad decisions. At the end of the day, it's still a business transaction. 2) Definitely don't submit an offer before doing a walkthrough, or if you want to go that route put in an inspection contingency. 3) Piggybacking on 2, get an inspection, $400 well spent. 4) It's still a buyers' market - if the seller wants you to do something you don't want to do, they can either pound sand and continue with the transaction or wait until they find another buyer with solid financials.
Other thoughts: The agent did nothing wrong, but did end up wasting a lot of your time. This is typical in a short sale situation. You were probably led on by the fact that you thought she wouldn't present other offers, but that would have been unfair to the other people making offers. You can't be mad at someone for doing the fair thing and feeling you were unfairly taken advantage of.
Verbally accepted offers aren't worth the paper the written on. And in this case you didn't even get a verbally accepted offer so you didn't even make it that far. I've had a couple of situations where the offer was verbally accepted and at the last minute a better offer came in and I lost out.
As for the buyer's market, all real estate is local so market conditions differ depending on location. In terms of a short sale, it's clearly a seller's market. When there's 12 other offers, it's a seller's market. When there's no offers or yours is the only one, then you can say it's a buyer's market. There's still a mad scramble for foreclosures and short sales in the markets that I'm in. Other areas may have foreclosures and short sales that sit there for a long while.
ccpsteacher
New Member
posted: Nov. 2, 2009 @ 11:22a
Get pre-approved, not pre-qualified. Don't worry - the next bubble is coming soon. FHA is again qualifying those who won't be able to afford real estate. Example: A single mother with $36,000 gross income and 2 children was qualified for a $200,000 "first-time" home near me. There will be plenty of houses/condos around for some time to come.
I see similar issues like this.. if you are really upset report the listing agent to the board or your local new media... they are actually ripping us all off by shorting the banks (you did say short sale) ... I consider these listing agents criminal in their behavior and think they should start paying jail time for cheating behavior... "Best and Final" means best and final and all offer need to start be givein to the true sellers... it's not the agent place to pick and chose their friends for a kick back.
winners said: I see similar issues like this.. if you are really upset report the listing agent to the board or your local new media... they are actually ripping us all off by shorting the banks (you did say short sale) ... I consider these listing agents criminal in their behavior and think they should start paying jail time for cheating behavior... "Best and Final" means best and final and all offer need to start be givein to the true sellers... it's not the agent place to pick and chose their friends for a kick back.
I don't think you really understand short sales. Even many real estate agents don't understand them. I barely understand them and the rules just changed again.
First off, a short sale is a sale where the owner is upside down on the mortgage and if the seller finds a buyer, they would like to get approval for the amount that the bank will end up short. Hence short sale. In order for the sale to go through, the owner has to agree to sell the property and the bank has to agree to the short sale. Therefore, it's really up to the seller to decide which offer to accept. In these cases, being able to stay in the home as long as possible makes more sense to the seller than a higher amount as the owner is supposed to get nothing in the short sale. It's still up to the owner to decide which offer to accept and agents can either submit all the offers to the bank or just one offer. In the past, banks didn't really consider short sales and weren't staffed to deal with them as people weren't underwater when it was a rising market. So in order to do a short sale, you have to present an offer to the bank, otherwise the bank can't really agree to a sale of a property if there's no buyer who wants it. So you first need an offer to present to the bank to start the process and in order to do that, the properties are priced low to get offers. There was also an article in the NY times a while ago that said that only 23% of short sales go through. I've had several that were close, but the foreclosure department and the short sale department don't talk to each other and had a few properties foreclosed on before the short sale went though.
Now there's supposed to be new rules with short sales where the bank will approve the short sale in advance and set the price. In the previous scenarios, once the bank got an offer, they would get a few BPO's (broker price opinions) and also an appraisal to make sure they're not getting scammed. That's part of the delay in getting the sale approved.
Incarnate
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 3, 2009 @ 11:57a
jaydeer44 said: Knowing that this opportunity was a hot deal and not wanting to waste time, my agent and I decided to go ahead and submit an offer first and wait to see the place later when the key became available. That is just a stupid move. Good thing it fell through for you. What if you hated the layout, or that the inside looked like it was from the 70's and had to be redone? There would be no way out unless the house failed the inspection.
rzyzzy
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 3, 2009 @ 12:04p
To the OP,
Step away from the house, any house, ALL houses.
Count yourself as extremely LUCKY that this deal didn't go through!
Buy a book or an Xbox or something else to occupy your time for a while - preferrably a few months minimum.
Then have someone else help you find a decent deal on a house. Someone with some negotiating skills
You are waaay too close to the fire and you are lucky to still have some financial "eyebrows"...
BTW, I'm a real estate agent, and it isn't a great time to buy in your market if the agents there can play like that.
I believe the issue is morals and agents... I get short sales and what they are and so does the OP, I think he thought this selling agent was honest, but if they were they should have just said they will submit as they come in with out any advise on amount or conditions... they are not the sellers they have no say in which offer should be taken or what is acceptable to the seller... they are stepping over the line and I hope they all get a a nice fine and lose their licenses. Atleast out here the board does not suppose to allow this based upon what I've read about out laws.
kensat30
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 3, 2009 @ 3:37p
"First come, first served"
Did you really believe this statement? It's obvious that this realtor is a liar and not a very good one at that. The typical realtor response in this situation should be "there are X other offers on the table and what is your best and final offer". She didn't even try to squeeze more money out of you! I'm flabbergasted.
If I was the bank, I would be pissed at this agent. You might want to give the bank a call and let them know that this agent is not submitted offers. How hard is it to be a selling agent anyways all you have to do is say "best and final" people start jumping through hoops like dogs earning their biscuits.
Clearly this lady had or knew other offers were coming to the table and didn't understand how the game is played. When you encounter a property like this one, where the selling agent is incompetent, it's best to move on. You probably would have been outbid anyways.
PS - Agent was in no rush to submit offers because typically the turn around time on any short sale is extremely SLOW. Weeks to months.
Incarnate said: jaydeer44 said: Knowing that this opportunity was a hot deal and not wanting to waste time, my agent and I decided to go ahead and submit an offer first and wait to see the place later when the key became available. That is just a stupid move. Good thing it fell through for you. What if you hated the layout, or that the inside looked like it was from the 70's and had to be redone? There would be no way out unless the house failed the inspection.
Agreed that this was stupid. It is quite easy, however, to get one's self out of a contract (within the inspection contingency period).
tester99
Member
posted: Nov. 3, 2009 @ 5:56p
Wait till you get screwed over when your selling real estate.
kensat30 said: PS - Agent was in no rush to submit offers because typically the turn around time on any short sale is extremely SLOW. Weeks to months.
OP said bank had already approved the sale at $210K with another buyer. So, theoretically, the bank would accept any offer of $210K(or more) right away.
I offered $305,000 on a house with a BPO of $304,000 (there was another person who offered that amount). It's been a month and I'm still waiting for the bank. On the listing itself it said bank approved the $304,000 BPO. No money has changed hands, so I'll wait another week and then start looking at other places.
Crazytree
Senior Member - 7K
posted: Nov. 4, 2009 @ 12:50a
I have a friend that is buying his first house... for $1.3MM. He found a f'ing palace... brand new... in pre-foreclosure. An agent talked him into a dual agency, with the broker representing the seller and the buyer.
I did some research on the property and the builders... turns out there are a few things "his" agent forgot to tell him: 1. builder is on the verge of bankruptcy 2. builders have been sued over 10 times for breach of contract and construction defects 3. the city is withholding final subdivision approval until the builder pays for $200k in lights... which the builder will never have 4. builders just had their Bentley and Ferrari repossessed by court proceedings 5. the properties have over $3MM in mechanic's liens and lis pendens filed against them 6. most of the subs didn't get paid 7. builders have a history of shoddy construction work 8. since builders are insolvent and often sued... there would be ZERO recourse for my friend in the event of a serious (and likely) construction defect 9. builders are likely to be preparing to flee to Israel
thank God the Los Angeles Superior Court has so much public information available on its website.
bmcgin
Member
posted: Nov. 4, 2009 @ 12:59a
Short sales are tough to do. Seems like the only ones that go through quickly are when the bank accepted and the buyer defaults and then a 3rd party scopes in to make the buy.
In your case, the listing agent was not professional. I would call her and let her know how you feel. And I would not be understanding to her explanation because she told you x and did y. Also, if you submitted a full price offer without contingencies, then your realtor is due a commission.
Additionally, I wouldn’t fret about this deal not materializing. The deals have been getting better and better. For example, in my area there are 3 bedroom condos that were listed for $688k in 2007, then the price stated falling. Now some are listed for $299k-$249k.
Here’s a funny example. Started at $910k in 2007, then dropped to $789k, now listed at $325. I’m sure the bank would take $249k. Before: Link Now: Link
Be on the lookout for even better deals this winter.
bmcgin said: Also, if you submitted a full price offer without contingencies, then your realtor is due a commission.
Additionally, I wouldn’t fret about this deal not materializing. The deals have been getting better and better. For example, in my area there are 3 bedroom condos that were listed for $688k in 2007, then the price stated falling. Now some are listed for $299k-$249k.
Be on the lookout for even better deals this winter.
(edited to fix links)
I'm not sure where the idea came from that if you submitted a full price offer, the commission is due. The commission is typically due AT CLOSING. There are many issues where the closing wouldn't happen. What if there was a fire? What if the owner dies? What if there's a defect in title? And of course what if there are higher offers? Advertising a low price to attract multiple offers is an acceptable marketing practice. It happens all the time on eBay.
All real estate is local and each market is different. In general though, deals are better in the winter as less people look and focus more on the holidays. In the markets I'm in, first time homebuyer demand did reduce inventory and prices did go up a little, but now that it's basically too late to close to get the credit now, prices may soften unless the bill to extend the credit goes through.
bmcgin
Member
posted: Nov. 4, 2009 @ 10:47a
henry33 said: I'm not sure where the idea came from that if you submitted a full price offer, the commission is due. The commission is typically due AT CLOSING. There are many issues where the closing wouldn't happen. What if there was a fire? What if the owner dies? What if there's a defect in title? And of course what if there are higher offers? Advertising a low price to attract multiple offers is an acceptable marketing practice. It happens all the time on eBay.
I’m not a realtor, so I cannot speak with absolute assurance. Even still, in my dealings with one particular realtor, we were in a position to submit a full price contract with no contingencies, I asked what would happen if the seller refused to sell. Of the many things said, one was that the seller would be required to pay my realtor commission upon closing even if the seller did not select us to be the buyer.
My understanding is that the MLS listing must contain certain language in order to avoid this situation. When a house is listed in the MLS, this is a contact and there are obligations placed upon the seller.
Also an eBay listing agreement is a bit different than a MLS listing agreement.
bmcgin said: henry33 said: I'm not sure where the idea came from that if you submitted a full price offer, the commission is due. The commission is typically due AT CLOSING. There are many issues where the closing wouldn't happen. What if there was a fire? What if the owner dies? What if there's a defect in title? And of course what if there are higher offers? Advertising a low price to attract multiple offers is an acceptable marketing practice. It happens all the time on eBay.
I’m not a realtor, so I cannot speak with absolute assurance. Even still, in my dealings with one particular realtor, we were in a position to submit a full price contract with no contingencies, I asked what would happen if the seller refused to sell. Of the many things said, one was that the seller would be required to pay my realtor commission upon closing even if the seller did not select us to be the buyer.
My understanding is that the MLS listing must contain certain language in order to avoid this situation. When a house is listed in the MLS, this is a contact and there are obligations placed upon the seller.
Also an eBay listing agreement is a bit different than a MLS listing agreement.
Was your agent that you told you this also the listing agent on the home? At least in my state, the standard listing agreement does state that if the listing broker procures a ready, willing, and able buyer that will purchase the home at the list price during the listing period, then the listing broker is due the full commission if the seller refuses to sell. This applies to the listing broker, not the selling (buyer's) broker. So unless he was with the listing brokerage and your full price, no contingency offer was the only offer, then his commission was not guaranteed as he stated. Now if there are multiple offers and they choose another offer and don't sell to YOU, that is a different situation in which he is paid nothing. Otherwise every multiple offer situation would have the seller paying commission to every agent that brought a full price or more offer- not gonna happen.
ratdaddy said: bmcgin said: henry33 said: I'm not sure where the idea came from that if you submitted a full price offer, the commission is due. The commission is typically due AT CLOSING. There are many issues where the closing wouldn't happen. What if there was a fire? What if the owner dies? What if there's a defect in title? And of course what if there are higher offers? Advertising a low price to attract multiple offers is an acceptable marketing practice. It happens all the time on eBay.
I’m not a realtor, so I cannot speak with absolute assurance. Even still, in my dealings with one particular realtor, we were in a position to submit a full price contract with no contingencies, I asked what would happen if the seller refused to sell. Of the many things said, one was that the seller would be required to pay my realtor commission upon closing even if the seller did not select us to be the buyer.
My understanding is that the MLS listing must contain certain language in order to avoid this situation. When a house is listed in the MLS, this is a contact and there are obligations placed upon the seller.
Also an eBay listing agreement is a bit different than a MLS listing agreement.
Was your agent that you told you this also the listing agent on the home? At least in my state, the standard listing agreement does state that if the listing broker procures a ready, willing, and able buyer that will purchase the home at the list price during the listing period, then the listing broker is due the full commission if the seller refuses to sell. This applies to the listing broker, not the selling (buyer's) broker. So unless he was with the listing brokerage and your full price, no contingency offer was the only offer, then his commission was not guaranteed as he stated. Now if there are multiple offers and they choose another offer and don't sell to YOU, that is a different situation in which he is paid nothing. Otherwise every multiple offer situation would have the seller paying commission to every agent that brought a full price or more offer- not gonna happen.
I believe either your agent or you left out a few points so this is like telephone where some items get lost in passing. If you had an accepted offer and the seller changed their mind and refused to sell, then technically the listing agent could go after the seller for the full commission as the listing agent and buyer's agent did their job in procuring a ready, willing and able buyer. The buyer could also force the seller to sell by taking the signed offer to court and asking the courts to make the seller perform. Without any signed contract, there's no basis for any lawsuit or payment of any commission. And that's what you have when you submit a full priced offer that's not accepted. Even though a seller may sign a contact with a listing broker, they still retain the rights to withdraw or cancel their listing.
bmcgin
Member
posted: Nov. 4, 2009 @ 11:05p
It goes further than that. For example, you can’t list your house in the MLS, get a full price offer with a cashier’s check and then decide not to accept it. Unless the listing states that you may do this, you’ll open yourself to a law suit.
bmcgin said: It goes further than that. For example, you can’t list your house in the MLS, get a full price offer with a cashier’s check and then decide not to accept it. Unless the listing states that you may do this, you’ll open yourself to a law suit.
It just continues to amaze me where these come from. First of all, realtors are a member of MLS and are governed by MLS rules, if they break them, they could be fined or expelled or sued. There is no contract between the seller and MLS. Therefore this rule makes no sense as there's no basis in law for it. It's the listing agent that's bound by the rules of the MLS, not the seller. The seller is bound by the contract signed between the listing agent and the seller. If the listing agent put such a clause in their listing agreement, the seller's attorney is probably the one that should have that clause removed.
Even if the seller receives a full price offer with no contingencies, it's still within their right to reject it. What if it requires a closing in 3 weeks and the seller isn't ready? Or 3 months and the seller doesn't want to wait that long. Makes no sense.
And of course what if there are multiple offers. I've made lots of offers well over asking price and have still lost. Those were bank properties that were priced low. Saw one a few months ago. Listed at $180k, sold for $252k.
You are also missing a key point, in order to have a lawsuit, in real estate, offers have to be WRITING. There is no signed offer so there's NO basis for a lawsuit. The law is logical, follow the chain of reasoning, don't jump to conclusions.
bmcgin
Member
posted: Nov. 5, 2009 @ 7:04a
If this is the case, the realtors I’ve been working with are misleading me (wouldn’t be the first time).
Skipping 1 Messages...
dwfora
New Member
posted: Dec. 18, 2009 @ 3:27p
After reading all of the above comments, I have to admit that I am agreeing with the general consensus. I myself was involved with recently purchasing a home and it must have taken at least 2 years to find the right agent, location, listing, etc. Although it seems like one of the worst feelings, you do have to realize that in this economy, while there are deals to be had, there is also money to be made. In any case, we went through at least close to (if not more than) 100 listings, went through 3 agents, and finally got our home. It did suck to not get any of the other homes, and was heartbreaking at times, but we finally got our home. During this process, we must have put in at least close to 15-20 different offers, where the final offer was u should almost always remember to look oubarely accepted. Don't give up, just realize that this will happen and that you need to figure out how to NOT let it affect you during your quest to buy a home. I think that the aforementioned tips were quite useful, and that you should definitely keep them in mind. I also came across this site that provided quite a few helpful tidbits of info regarding the FICO score and not being pressured into using my realtor's lender:
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