Now that H.R. 3962, the "Affordable Health Care for America Act" bill has passed the house and will likely pass in the senate... can anyone offer insights on how to minimize costs of the new laws?
For example, will health savings accounts count as health care coverage? Say I'm self employed with no health insurance. What's the cheapest way for me to satisfy these new requirements?
Do you know how this will change things for you and what you will do to save the most money under these new laws?
... I'm deeply disappointed that the House thinks they have the constitutional authority to force me to buy health insurance, but I'm trying to stay positive and pro-active. I want to come out of this as well as I can without focusing on the negativity I feel towards our elected government.
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JTFH said:Now that H.R. 3962, the "Affordable Health Care for America Act" bill has passed the house and will likely pass in the senate... can anyone offer insights on how to minimize costs of the new laws?It's a good question but frankly, I think that your thread is a little premature. The Senate is almost certain to come up with a different version and the differences will have to be reconciled. Hence, we don't know what the final version, if any, will end up looking like.
Message edited by: geo123 on 2009-11-08 09:44:24 CST
JTFH said: ... I'm deeply disappointed that the House thinks they have the constitutional authority to force me to buy health insurance
I'm deeply disappointed that some citizens (and a lot of non-citizens) think that they have a constitutional right to force me to pay for their health coverage.
Message edited by: gandhis on 2009-11-08 09:57:25 CST
geo123 said:JTFH said:Now that H.R. 3962, the "Affordable Health Care for America Act" bill has passed the house and will likely pass in the senate... can anyone offer insights on how to minimize costs of the new laws?It's a good question but frankly, I think that your thread is a little premature. The Senate is almost certain to come up with a different version and the differences will have to be reconciled. Hence, we don't know what the final version, if any, will end up looking like.Nothing about the future is certain.
However, the time to consider our own alternatives and potential actions is not after the fact but during the time that the future seems to evolve.
For example, one way to profit from the recession was to take action before it hit.
Message edited by: Xnarg on 2009-11-08 10:02:07 CST
I would think that the response to this healthcare bill would be similar to any other tax increase imposed by the gov't. Since we all know that any type of flat tax is regressive and unethical, it's time to put away as much in tax-deferred accounts as possible, otherwise you're going to be paying more than you should be for the generally unhealthy populace's healthcare costs.
I can't afford the $60/month HDHP insurance now. I really wont be able to afford it when the bill passes and I have to subsidize irresponsible obese people with pre-existing conditions.
I am not sure what the law says, but the government wants me to pay 8% interest on student loans and I already barely have enough money for textbooks now and I won't be buying $100/month health insurance. If the law says buy health insurance or lock me in jail, then I guess I will be going to jail. Or I will have to drop out of grad school to get a job to pay for my own health insurance - which will be twice as much than I would be paying now as a non-smoker in his 20s with no pre-existing conditions.
Message edited by: tripleB on 2009-11-08 10:27:19 CST
gandhis said:JTFH said: ... I'm deeply disappointed that the House thinks they have the constitutional authority to force me to buy health insurance
I'm deeply disappointed that some citizens (and a lot of non-citizens) think that they have a constitutional right to force me to pay for their health coverage. But I believe every citizen deserves free/highly discounted healthcare from the government. If we can afford trilion dollar wars, we can easily afford free healthcare when these wars are not around. Looking at the situation across EU, I dont have any problem to pay a small part of healthcare cost of those who are not financially as fortunate as myself.
mediocre1 said:I would think that the response to this healthcare bill would be similar to any other tax increase imposed by the gov't. Since we all know that any type of flat tax is regressive and unethical, it's time to put away as much in tax-deferred accounts as possible, otherwise you're going to be paying more than you should be for the generally unhealthy populace's healthcare costs.
what fantastic advice. Yeah, put away money into tax deferred accounts so that you can pay through the NOSE in the future and in the meantime, you can earn your worthless 0.01% APY in their bull**** money market accounts.
That's all we need right now is more buffoonery.
I say, to hell with tax deferred savings (aka 401k, 401b, and other hocus pocus accounts) and stop spending money. let the corporations (including the healthcare conglomerates) go to hell.
For every dollar they pump into the economy, you cut back by $3. That will eventually bring this ponzi scheme to an end.
Message edited by: vstrt on 2009-11-08 10:32:47 CST
I don't know whether this applies to the version that passed, but:
New health insurance policies sold in the individual and group insurance markets would be subject to several requirements regarding their availability and pricing. Insurers would be required to issue coverage to all applicants, and could not limit coverage for preexisting medical conditions. In addition, premiums for a given plan could not vary because of enrollees’ health and could vary by their age to only a limited degree (under a system known as adjusted community rating). Existing policies that are maintained continuously would be “grandfathered.”
I can think of a few other ways to net money under this plan:
Eat cheap, low quality food.
In general, don't spend any money on maintaining your health.
Don't worry, we'll shoulder your adult onset diabetes together.
To be fair, you'll probably rack up extra co-pays if you treat yourself like hell, even if your premiums can't go up. So there will be some _minor_ financial incentive for taking care of yourself.
Edit to emphasize the point of the quoted text: grandfathering of old plans.
Message edited by: KGZotU on 2009-11-08 10:56:02 CST
sensia said:But I believe every citizen deserves free/highly discounted healthcare from the government. If we can afford trilion dollar wars, we can easily afford free healthcare when these wars are not around. Looking at the situation across EU, I dont have any problem to pay a small part of healthcare cost of those who are not financially as fortunate as myself. First of all, I think we all can agree: nothing is free. It's quite impossible... Second, what makes you think this will be small? Healthcare costs in the US are already the highest in the world thanks to "regulation" and I expect them to skyrocket now as this bill is nothing but a front for insurance companies to artificially increase the demand.
Second, I might agree with you in a perfect world... But our govt can literally do nothing right; education, social security, FDA. Even with an astronomical "defense" (lol) we can't control the outcomes of one of the world's most poverty stricken countries. Seems to me like the only thing it does well is enrich and protect special interests at our expense. Both D/R.
Why on earth do you think that this time will be different and they'll actually accomplish their stated goals?
Moving on: I wonder if a new market of dubious quality health insurance will emerge for people just looking to cheaply meet the new laws. I would certainly be interested.
Message edited by: JTFH on 2009-11-08 10:50:08 CST
sensia said:...But I believe every citizen deserves free/highly discounted healthcare from the government. If we can afford trilion dollar wars, we can easily afford free healthcare when these wars are not around.Using that argument, one could rationalize ANY government expenditure, no matter how inefficient or unconstitutional it is.
Second, you assume that such wars are going away, even though recent developments point toward more conflict in the future.sensia said:Looking at the situation across EU, I dont have any problem to pay a small part of healthcare cost of those who are not financially as fortunate as myself.People who share your feelings have always had the option to voluntarily contribute to the health care of others.
Furthermore, keep in mind that taxpayers currently fund SSDI, Medicaid, and the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIPS).
About 1/3 of Social Security payments go to the disabled and SSDI payments are about double those of Workers' Compensation. Link
Message edited by: Xnarg on 2009-11-08 11:15:08 CST
All I'm saying is to reduce your taxable income as much as possible in this "blue period" in hopes that you cash out in the future in a better tax environment ("red period"). I think there was a thread on here saying something like 47% of Americans don't pay any taxes. Since we are a democrazy, all it takes are some of those idealist college students my age to run things in the way that taxes the middle and upper class the most - since we can afford it.
vstrt said:mediocre1 said:I would think that the response to this healthcare bill would be similar to any other tax increase imposed by the gov't. Since we all know that any type of flat tax is regressive and unethical, it's time to put away as much in tax-deferred accounts as possible, otherwise you're going to be paying more than you should be for the generally unhealthy populace's healthcare costs.
what fantastic advice. Yeah, put away money into tax deferred accounts so that you can pay through the NOSE in the future and in the meantime, you can earn your worthless 0.01% APY in their bull**** money market accounts.
That's all we need right now is more buffoonery.
I say, to hell with tax deferred savings (aka 401k, 401b, and other hocus pocus accounts) and stop spending money. let the corporations (including the healthcare conglomerates) go to hell.
For every dollar they pump into the economy, you cut back by $3. That will eventually bring this ponzi scheme to an end.
mediocre1 said:All I'm saying is to reduce your taxable income as much as possible in this "blue period" in hopes that you cash out in the future in a better tax environment ("red period"). I think there was a thread on here saying something like 47% of Americans don't pay any taxes. Since we are a democrazy, all it takes are some of those idealist college students my age to run things in the way that taxes the middle and upper class the most - since we can afford it.
It seems more likely to me that taxes will be HIGHER in the future, not lower. Once entitlements grow, they rarely are cut back, and we've all seen the government doesn't reduce its own spending. So, how else do they expect to fund these programs? Interest payments on our government debt are already projected to grow to large levels placing an even heavier burden on the government. Taxes are going to eventually give. The only other way to have higher revenue sources is to have sustainable boosts in GDP which come from innovation and new business ventures - the same kind of innovation that gets stifled in high tax and/or socialist environments.
We are moving on the same path as Europe now, and look at their tax rates for an example of where we'll probably end up at. I think tax planning should be based on current rates now, with European rates later. Save/spend accordingly...
This thread is going to be a 100 page thread on health care debate - just look at the vote last night, 220 votes. Regardless of your opinion for/against, it doesn't seem like a good idea to pass a $1.2T bill with such a close margin and such extreme party divides (even the Dems had a good chunk of people who were against this). The ruling party is sure taking advantage of the majority while they have it.
Message edited by: walletfart on 2009-11-08 11:13:33 CST
If you refuse to participate or pay for the plan passed by the house, its punishable by 5 years in prison and 250K fine. I tried to call my congresswoman yesterday, but conveniently, her office was CLOSED. what a bitch.
Xnarg said:Another consideration in the large sense is that this will reduce the incentive to make sacrifices to take jobs that provide health benefits.
Thus, the economy will become less efficient as people get health care without having to strive for it as much as in the past.
Did you have the chance to read this thread: "Is there a HEALTH INSURANCE expert, salesperson, ex-salesperson, etc... amongst us?" ? I did a quick search for some text I thought was in the thread (didn't find it --yet), where someone essentially said it sucked that Self-Employed people, in the current system, were forced to take potentially menial, Cube Monkey type jobs, just because they would be able to get a good Health Insurance group rate from a large Employer. These people would sacrifice innovation, and superior use of their God-given talents, just because they needed to do the responsible thing and provide health insurance to their families. One of the better solutions for those who insisted on being self-employed appeared to be marrying or staying married to someone who had insurance through a large company...
Speaking of Large Employer group rates, if you are in good health, and have purchased health insurance through your company, you are already subsidizing the health care of others. Could someone explain to me why they believe this is not the case? I believe the conclusion reached in the thread I posted, or a similar one, was that if only there were a large enough group to which self-employed people could belong outside of large Corporations, health insurance just maybe could be affordable.
Instead of this health bill, really, what is the better solution for giving access to inexpensive health insurance (not necessarily care) for the masses?
RedCelicaGT said:If you refuse to participate or pay for the plan passed by the house, its punishable by 5 years in prison and 250K fine. I tried to call my congresswoman yesterday, but conveniently, her office was CLOSED. what a bitch.
JaneiR36 said:Xnarg said:Another consideration in the large sense is that this will reduce the incentive to make sacrifices to take jobs that provide health benefits.
Thus, the economy will become less efficient as people get health care without having to strive for it as much as in the past.
Instead of this health bill, really, what is the better solution for giving access to inexpensive health insurance (not necessarily care) for the masses?
I have my own privately paid for insurance. My $500 deductible plan w/ 5 million limit and $100 pharmacy deductible is considerably better than what my employer provides. I've been able to get great low-cost coverage from Blue Cross and now don't have to worry about what I'm gonna do if I lose my job. Granted, the cost is low because I'm in my early 20s, but my parents also have the same plan (in their 50s) and pay about $400 a month combined. Sure, it's a decent chunk of money, and my parents are no where near rich, but they make sacrifices to pay. Of course, increasing the deductible to $1000 significantly reduces that premium. Almost all people without health insurance can afford a high deductible plan for serious medical problems. Hell, cutting out that data plan and premium cable could easily pay the monthly premium for most individuals. Sadly, for a lot of people, the iPhone is just a whole hell of a lot more important.
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