How do you remake a life FW style? Here's my plan. Ideas?

Imagine that you were recently let out of prison for felony possession and trafficking of marijuana. Some very stupid youthful mistakes that cost you some time and probably limited your career prospects. You've learned your lesson and you are dead serious about getting back on track.

This is the situation my uncle is in. He has a Net Worth of exactly $0, meaning he has no assets but also no debt and no credit history. He is also 40 years old, single and childless, so he has 25 years left to invest and save for retirement at 65 and no kids or wife to save for.

How does a man in his situation and of his dedication re-invent himself? He is very VERY motivated. He understands that he may have to start at working in fast food, construction, washing dishes or janitorial services, but if that's what it takes, he's willing to do it if it means going straight.

I have come up with a few ideas so far.

First, I will be helping him open a free checking account that has no maintenance fees and no minimum balance. I will gladly lend him the amount of $8.95 shipped to order him a cheap box of designer checks on-line. I will teach him how to use and balance a check register and to swear to me that he try to never overdraft his account or ever write bad checks so long as he lives. We'll eventually pair this with a high-yield savings account

Then, when he's had that long enough and proven faithful, we'll get him a low-commission discount brokerage account at some place like Schwab or Fidelity where they have no-fee mutual fund options and set him on an automatic investment plan in something suitable and age-appropriate.

I also want to get him a deposit-secured credit card with no annual fee and a limit of no more than $500.

Now he doesn't own a car, so the first thing I'm going to get him to save for is a bike and an annual bus pass. I'm going to try to persuade him to avoid the car entirely and go with an electric bike so he doesn't have to live with a car payment, gas or insurance. He can later buy a used car with cash when he's able to and has the income to support it. He did just recently get his driver's license back, so he can rent a car when he needs to.

Now, my aunt (his sister) will only tolerate him staying in her house for a period of 5 years. After that, he has to get and go. So, I think a solution to his future housing problem will be either having him spend $12K to build a tiny home like one of these or having him live in a used boat and simply pay docking fees. If he had kids or a wife, I could see how someone wouldn't like that kind of thing, but I mean he's single and with no responsibilities, right?

Now his income is low enough to where he qualifies for California's community college tuition waiver, so I'm thinking that we can enroll him part-time and have him take online professional courses while he's working and the only thing he's go to worry about is the cost of used textbooks online he can use our old desktop or the library's computers to do his work until he's able to afford the cost of a cheap netbook.

Eventually I want to have him to build his own wardrobe. I have an old grey pinstripe suit that I got on clearance from Jos. A Bank for $99 that almost fits him. I'll give it to him for $50 if he agrees to take care of the cost of having the pants hemmed at the tailor.

I've really been thinking of different ideas, anyone care to pitch in?

The tiny houses are, well, impracticable by anyones means. Skip that one. He can get back on his feet in a five year period. Others have. Since you say he is going to enroll in CCC, is it safe to assume he does not have a degree? Before incarceration, what did he do as a profession? What is he good at? If the real estate market in CA was not in the dump, I'd recommend becoming a contractor if he's good with his hands.

You really need to know what he can do to start making the dough first, before thinking about retirement.

greling said: He is very VERY motivated. He understands that he may have to start at working in fast food, construction, washing dishes or janitorial services, but if that's what it takes, he's willing to do it if it means going straight.

This is probably the MOST important thing. I'd caution you to have him stick to the big things/ideas first. Don't bog him down with details, or he may get distracted / demotivated / run out of mental energy or steam. Get him going on the big concepts (saving enough, living with a frugal mindset, not using credit/living within his means) before you look at detail-oriented things. Forget about retirement until he can actually support himself. 5 years seems like an extremely long time to live in someone else's house, but obviously he should work on establishing a basic income / health insurance / emergency fund first before saving for other things.

Look at things like working as a handyman on the side, if he has skills like this. It will allow him to pick up work when he is otherwise not doing anything (making some money on a random sunday afternoon is never a bad thing).


greling said: We'll eventually pair this with a high-yield savings account. Then, when he's had that long enough and proven faithful, we'll get him a low-commission discount brokerage account at some place like Schwab or Fidelity where they have no-fee mutual fund options and set him on an automatic investment plan in something suitable and age-appropriate. I also want to get him a deposit-secured credit card with no annual fee and a limit of no more than $500.

All good things, but medium-term goals. First thing is to get a stable income (food, basic clothes...). A zero-fee savings and checking account with a free debit card (which is what I assume you mean by "deposit-secured credit card?) should be easy to find (many banks even include stock checks for free, FYI).


greling said: Now he doesn't own a car, so the first thing I'm going to get him to save for is a bike and an annual bus pass. I'm going to try to persuade him to avoid the car entirely and go with an electric bike so he doesn't have to live with a car payment, gas or insurance. He can later buy a used car with cash when he's able to and has the income to support it. He did just recently get his driver's license back, so he can rent a car when he needs to.

Great if he lives in a metro area. If he is rural, that could get a LOT trickier. Is the electric bike necessary (for distances) where he lives, or would a regular bike work (cheaper, less likely target of theft/vandalism, no utilities fee to recharge)? If so and he is mechanically inclined, it might make more sense to pick up an old beater and run it into the ground if he can do his own repairs/maintanence. Obviously, this won't work for everyone, and he probably shouldn't do this if he is not knowledgeable enough about cars when he goes to inspect it before buying...

What did he do in prison? Was he able to take classes or learn a trade (auto-work, business classes...)?


greling said: Now, my aunt (his sister) will only tolerate him staying in her house for a period of 5 years. After that, he has to get and go. So, I think a solution to his future housing problem will be either having him spend $12K to build a tiny home like one of these or having him live in a used boat and simply pay docking fees. If he had kids or a wife, I could see how someone wouldn't like that kind of thing, but I mean he's single and with no responsibilities, right?

Don't know much about any of this, but those houses look pretty awesome, btw - thanks for sharing! Is he pitching in at his sister's place somehow? Doing odd-jobs around the house or otherwise helping out would help that situation remain amiable for longer. But long-term I doubt his sister is going to want him there for multiple years at a time if he can otherwise help it (again, medium-term goal). I just hope he realizes this is a huge boon to him from his sister, who is making a pretty big sacrifice to offer this.

greling said: Now his income is low enough to where he qualifies for California's community college tuition waiver, so I'm thinking that we can enroll him part-time and have him take online professional courses while he's working and the only thing he's go to worry about is the cost of used textbooks online he can use our old desktop or the library's computers to do his work until he's able to afford the cost of a cheap netbook.

Is he on welfare/government assistance right now? That should help until he can get a job going. Just do NOT let him get complacent. If this is a big fear, maybe it's best to just inject him somewhere into the working world to get him into the habit of working, getting up, going to work... again. Good habits are easy to form if you start them EARLY. I'd say get him to the unemployment office if there is nothing lined up, but don't RELY on that at all.

greling said: Eventually I want to have him to build his own wardrobe. I have an old grey pinstripe suit that I got on clearance from Jos. A Bank for $99 that almost fits him. I'll give it to him for $50 if he agrees to take care of the cost of having the pants hemmed at the tailor.

Have him drop by local used-clothing places. Consignment shops and salvation army-type places often have great clothes (and other stuff) bargains! If he is in or near an affluent area or part of town, this is especially true (rich people sometimes drop good, hardly or never used clothing at their local charity shops).

Short term: Keep it simple. Get financially stable enough to pay for basic living expenses (food, clothing) in current situation.
Medium term: Get independently financially stable (no outside assistance). Start saving for emergency fund.
Long term: Continue improving career / job prospects. Start saving for retirement.

Good luck! And consider updating us on the progress as time goes on!

greling said: ...... No, I'm actually serious.

I'm just 25 and I have a Roth, 401K, HSA and significant holdings in precious metals.

you are undertaking a noble task that could be personally rewarding

just make sure you limit your own financial and emotional exposure to the downside of this

if uncle gets sidetracked because he finds it too hard to make it, his path will lead right back to jail --- if it happens, be able to tell yourself you did your best and you have no regrets

...

My advice is to slow down on the ideas. You are already planning this guy's life out for the next 10-20 years, but we don't even know if he can stay out of trouble when he gets out. It is analagous to someone telling me what job and house their 10 year old kid will have when they are 30. There are just too many unkowns to even bother trying to worry about something that far out. Your ideas are all good-natured but seriously who knows even if your uncle wants to live on a boat. If he works hard and saves well then there is nothing wrong with renting a 1 bedroom apartment for the rest of his life.
Focus your attention on the immediate next 12 months. Check around for some ex-convict support groups for your uncle to attend. These people can likely help him make the transition back to the outside life and help with ideas on jobs. There are likely some employers who are more friendly to people who were in jail. Help your uncle non-financially whenever you can. Helping him get a checking account and a job are great. Also don't be afraid to help him financially if you think he won't get addicted to your help (i.e. if the aunt throws him out maybe you can let him live with you or pay for an apartment 1-2 months to get him back on his feet). Also just being his friend and emotional support would be good too and stepping in whenever you think he is going down the wrong path. However, always treat him as your peer and not your kid. He is much senior to you and probably already knows a great deal about life (maybe you can learn from him also).

0AfterRebates said: He is not a child so he should be able to do this all by himself or with very little guidance.
I disagree with this. The guy has been in jail for quite some time and likely will be in culture shock when he is back on the outside. For many people going from such a regiminted and regulated living situation to complete freedom is too much and they end up making mistakes and going back to jail. I think anyone who has been in jail 5 years or longer could use a friend to help them understand how the world has changed and who can help them get on their feet as quickly as possible. I think the first 12 months are critical to his success in life.

What does your uncle think? Has he actually asked for your help or does he have any ideas at all? That's important because he has to want to move in a certain direction and your goals for his life may not he his. So when he doesn't tow the line or do exactly what you think he should be doing to progress, there may be hard feelings. Just some food for thought.

Just give him the suit.

Other than that - if he asks you for your advice on the other things give it. You can also offer it, but don't be offended if he declines.

I've got to admit your topic title title pulled me right in. It's one of the more interesting titles I've seen here in a while.

You're young--don't take this the wrong way--and probably a bit naive in thinking you can help your uncle to the extent you've suggested. Depending upon how long he's been in prison, he's a completely different person now than before he went in. Off the top of my head I don't know what the rate of recitivision is, but I'm guessing it's seven out of ten or so people in his shoes don't make it in the free world. Sorry to be so blunt. I hope he's one of the minority that makes it. But do not...do not build your hopes up.

In your shoes, if I could afford it, I'd give him (yes give him) a few hundred bucks, with the understanding that this is all the cash help he will ever get from you. Since he's financially at ground zero--no money or assets at all--without a job or sponsor willing to subsidize his life, he won't make it. Concentrate on helping him to find employment first. That will be difficult without help. I was surprised to read that a relative will let him live with her for five years. Not sure how she arrived at that time frame, but that's a long time, during which many things can go wrong.

Don't bite off more than you can chew, regardless of how sure you are he'll go straight. Sorry to say it, but the odds are against him. But, with help and luck, he could make it.

Also, you mentioned having a significant amount in precious metals. This makes me wonder a bit. You have no business holding more than 5-10% of your net assets in precious metals, regardless of its recent performance. A big chunk of that could evaporate very quickly.

umcsom said: greling said: Some very stupid youthful mistakes that cost you some time... He is also 40 years old

I stopped reading at that point. Dealing pot does not typically get you 20 years, heck manslaughter doesn't get you 20 years. You are being naive. Not to be discouraging but you are about to see your relative's true side in about 6 months to a year.What makes you say he spent 20 years in prison? He could have just been a low-level pot dealer for a long time and got caught at 35 or something.

If that is the case, I wouldn't worry about his "true side", as IMO it is ridiculous that one would even spend jail time for that. We spend $60K a year housing a guy that basically hasn't harmed anyone. But I digress....

umcsom said: I stopped reading at that point. Dealing pot does not typically get you 20 years, heck manslaughter doesn't get you 20 years. You are being naive. Not to be discouraging but you are about to see your relative's true side in about 6 months to a year.
Sorry to tell you but the mandatory minimum drug laws in this country sometimes net you more jail time than things like aggrevated assault or robbery, perhaps even some kinds of manslaughter. Also compounding the fact that even with very low amounts of certain drugs (i.e. crack) you can face intent to distribute charges when you were really just using and not dealing.
Off topic, I think it makes no sense to lock these people up for 10-15 years, especially when you consider the total cost to incarcerate them vs their threat to society.

geebeebee said: umcsom said: greling said: Some very stupid youthful mistakes that cost you some time... He is also 40 years old

I stopped reading at that point. Dealing pot does not typically get you 20 years, heck manslaughter doesn't get you 20 years. You are being naive. Not to be discouraging but you are about to see your relative's true side in about 6 months to a year.What makes you say he spent 20 years in prison? He could have just been a low-level pot dealer for a long time and got caught at 35 or something.

If that is the case, I wouldn't worry about his "true side", as IMO it is ridiculous that one would even spend jail time for that. We spend $60K a year housing a guy that basically hasn't harmed anyone. But I digress....

Or maybe he got nailed for running a few keys out of Canada?

Anyway, like a few other posters I'd say make sure your stress is on the big picture. That big picture is something like this: people get caught up in modern culture and add a host of small expenses to their lives. They come to feel dependent on these expenditures which are, in fact, not guilty pleasures but wasteful spending that are demonstrably _counterproductive_. So you have two aims. One is negative: don't spend unproductively. Note that it's valid to produce comfort or pleasure, but a lot of spending is counterproductive even to that. The positive: maximize earning potential and savings return.

If you frame your little steps in terms of those big two, I think they'll be much easier to understand and follow.

Just a side note about homes. I don't know if it's really relevant, but you brought it up. There are some cheap(ish) DIY options with concrete. Like dry stack or stone faced slip-form.

Living in a "tumble weed" house will make him yearn for his jail cell. 65-sq ft.

Last time I checked fast food, construction or janitorial jobs did not require a used grey pinstripe suit. Give him $20 and take him down to Goodwill for some used boots.

Those tiny houses look stupid. I'd much rater live in a mobile home.

LMAO off at the tiny house. Dude, seriously? However, it's a good thing you're trying to do for your uncle. Just make sure you don't overwhelm him, and get him involved in letting you know what he'd like to do with his life and not just you telling him what to do. Be patient with him, and don't let your expectations get out of hand. This is not going to be an overnight fix, it's gonna take a lot of hard work and perseverance on his part. You should mostly just be there to offer a listening ear, support, and encouragement. Some advice mixed in is OK, but don't overdo it or push it on him. If you do, he will only resent it and it won't do any good.

tripleB said: greling said: Imagine that you were recently let out of prison for felony possession and trafficking of marijuana. Some very stupid youthful mistakes that cost you some time and probably limited your career prospects. You've learned your lesson and you are dead serious about getting back on track.

This is the situation my uncle is in.

Most people pretend their situation is their "friend" but you are pretending it is your "uncle." Green for originality.

My "friend" thinks you're an ahole BBB. So does my "uncle".

Living in those houses is a really bad idea. Just advise him on becoming someone's roommate. He can probably get his own room and utils for < $500/mo.

Please listen to the advice on this board and take years 1-2 very slow.

You need to be more concerned about his re-acclimation into society than getting the best rewards credit cards or maximizing Cash Back, the cost of a used suit, or even building a mini house ($12,000 cash versus $500 a month rent?). Those are all very small issues that can be dealt with later on.

It sounds like you have an excellent plan for him, and you obviously want to help him a lot. That's awesome. But keep in mind his idea of what his life should be will not be the same as your opinion. Your main job should be to keep him from becoming frustrated (making $7 an hour will become increasingly annoying when he remembers how easy it was to make drug money), stay on track, and keep positive role models in his life. All the other details will fall into place.

I think you run the risk of overwhelming him or making him feel it's impossible if you work on too many details. Advise is nice, but only when asked for. Keep it simple!

Disclaimer - obviously, these are the thoughts of a stranger who doesn't know your situation and who doesn't know much about the world of ex-cons. That said, these are my suggestions:

1. Just give him the suit (IF he even wants the used, clearance-y thing!), don't ask for money for it. In his first sorts of jobs that he'll be applying for, he won't need a suit anyway.

2. You need to figure out now, and then strictly observe, some firm boundaries in your "counselling" role with this relative. Don't do more than would be wise, don't get yourself into a situation where you are too heavily leaned upon. What might be fine when you are 25 and single might be a burden when you are 30, living 2 hours away, with a wife/baby/etc. Before barrelling off down this path going zero to 60 as it sounds like you are thinking of doing, you might want to consult with an advisor about this, maybe a religious figure (if you are religious) like a priest or something, or maybe a community counselor, or a jail counselor, whatever is offered and you feel comfortable with.

3. Don't devalue the life knowledge that he does have (yes, it might be on quite different topics, but he's seen a heck of a lot more than you have of some aspects of life, of humanity, etc.)

4. Don't put yourself in his shoes so much that you plan for him to do things that sound good to you but that he wouldn't have the motivation to do on his own. This is going to be a hard transition for him, and at the base of it, it's all going to have to come from his own grit and power. You will not be able to hold his hand or push him all the time.

5. If he wants a good shot at leaving his old life behind (and by that I mean his pre-arrest life as well as his prison life, prison acquaintances, etc.), I think he should concentrate on building up a life routine and a social network that avoids like the plague all those people and places and memories. It is easy to slip back, it is easy to see old buddies and get sucked back into something, or to be pressured or blackmailed into this or that. I hope his sister lives away from those old areas, but if she doesn't, he should still try to work and socialize far away from that old milieu.

6. 5 years of certain, free (or subsidized) housing with relatives is a long time. Don't try to plan now for what he will do after that. It will work out when the time comes. The important thing is to concentrate now on the very few crucial decisions he must make in his first few months. Don't divert his attention into the non-essentials.

7. He should build up an x-month cushion of cash before starting to invest in a retirement fund. That will take a long time if he's just working at a fast food place in a high-cost-of-living area. Don't have such high expectations of him - that would make it easier for him to feel like he's failing if he doesn't reach certain milestones at certain times.

8. Realize that it's very hard to rent a car unless you have a credit card, and some rental car places will put a $500 (or higher) temporary charge on your card until the rental period is over. So you may want to rethink the small limit on the secured card, or at least not assume he's going to be able to rent a car until his cc limit is higher, which might take time to build up... (I don't know how secured cards work).

9. I think it's too much too soon to expect him to get a menial job as a middle-aged ex-con in a state where the unemployment rate is pretty high, find all new friends, avoid drugs or whatever was his downfall, adjust to living with a family member as an adult (which can be really stressful), AND start college classes. He may never be a college grad, which is fine. Does he even want to study further? It would take a lot of motivation in his situation to get some kind of degree. As long as he has a high school diploma, I'd say to let him decide about whether further education is right for him.

10. But, if he does want to take classes, he needs to go to those classes in person. Don't keep him alone in a room, online, trying to study on his own with only books and a screen to stare at, especially if he's not the academic, studious type (sounds like he isn't...) That won't work. He needs to mix with new people, people who are bravely redefining themselves, people who will be a good influence on him, people who are also juggling a job and studies -- and his classmates would fit that bill, especially if it's a mature-student crowd.

11. I think other posters have mentioned this, but there are probably some government and charity programs in your locality that he could take advantage of - free clothing, free food, free employment help, free literacy training, etc.

12. You seem to be assuming that because he hasn't any kids or romantic partners now, that he never will. He's got a lot more of his life yet to go - 40 is the new 30 - don't write that stuff off yet.

13. Taking this as a generic situation (for none of us know the details), there is a chance that your eagerness to help and idealistic plans might not interest him, and he might not be grateful, and he might disappoint you over and over. Your desire to help him is great, and your interest in being very financially savvy (in your own life as well as his) is commendable, but you may want to detach somewhat from this situation now, before it has begun. You can be there as a support, let him know you are available to talk and plan and brainstorm about serious matters if he WANTS to, drop some suggestions casually if he's the type who is okay with that, and just spend some social time with him so he isn't tempted to go back to his old companions and ways of coping.

14. I've just read through some of the earlier responses, and they reminded me that I was also thinking of telling him to move away, far away, to do a manual job, a place where he could be relatively mysterious and remold his self-definition and circle of friends, build up some savings, and figure out a new direction. The US is an easy place to redefine yourself, start anew - the easiest culture in the world for that. Many people here just take you at face value, as long as you are confident and dependable, especially in transactional relationships, which most relationships in the US are expected to be. If there is a chance he'd be followed or traced for any reason (past drug deals, squealing, retribution for violence, whatever), I'd change my name, if I were he. I had also thought of the fishery boats in Alaska, the construction trade, that kind of thing. Or, and I mean this in all seriousness - comparatively speaking, North Dakota has a very low unemployment rate, and apparently many manual jobs are unfilled. It's the kind of regional culture where folks keep to themselves, aren't that intrusive into strangers' lives. If he can handle the cold and the cultural bleakness (sorry, Fargo), he could go up there and build a new life, as long as he had some gumption. Life the other poster said, I would also not be able to clean toilets for minimum wage under some 23-year-old pipsqueak manager, live in a small room at my sister's, feel trapped and regressed and dependent, a phone call away from a degenerate druggie circle that could provide me with a pocketful of cash for 5 minutes' work.
However, I would NOT frequent prostitutes for some number of years in order to avoid getting into a relationship. For goodness' sake, I'd just look for a so-called "quality woman" from the start. As the Australians say, "Start as you mean to go on."

bigStax said: TomE711 said: Is the pic in your sig from your uncle's prison days?


Seems as if he has changed his Avatar.

Guess it was.....