How to have kids the FatWallet way?

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Also, when your kids get to working age, make them work no matter how much money you have. My parents were very well off, but as soon as I turned 14, I was expected to work and fund my own expenses and save towards college (75% of my paycheck to college fund, the rest for whatever I wanted). This is not only a good short term strategy, but teaches your kids the value of work & money. These lessons decrease the probability that you will have to support your kids when they are adults.

RS4Rings said: Fatwallet guys get laid?

Sure, they're not comfortable with that SD thing
....

patch96 said:
Our country/civilization is TRULY in trouble as the people who should be having kids are having 1 or none and those that.... maybe should not be parents are having 12.


They made a movie about this, too.

luvbugium said: 9. I really do prefer private schools but the bills got too overwhelming so I found the best public school and figured out how to do a school transfer. I was persistent and on waiting lists and we didn't get the call until August, but I'll be darned if it didn't work.
Public schools aren't all horrible nor are all private schools great. Sending your kids to public schools can represent a huge cost savings.
With a little bit of research you can often buy a home in a cheaper neighborhood that still is zoned for a great school. Even if it costs you 20-30K over a comperable house, this is only 4-5 years of private schooling, or even less if you have multiple kids. Seems like it should be worth giving up that extra bedroom. As luvbugium mentioned, some districts have special school transfer rules. In the south there are frequently little known civil rights era transfer procedures where you can transfer from the school where you are the race majority to a school where you are the race minority. Other school districts have excellent magnet schools in bad neighborhoods. I went to an outstanding middle school with a housing project located across the street.
You can also pull tricks to use another address as your residence. While technically illegal, this is frequently done. You will have to drive the kids to school. All you need is a power bill in your name with the different address. Are any of your family members or friends zoned to a better school?
My wife is a teacher. She tells me that the active, involved, and persistent parents get what they want. Principal says no parent can pick their child's teacher but wife tells me that PTA president, parents who are also teachers, and other involved people do pick their kids teacher. Also complaining parents frequently get put to a better teacher to shut them up. My wife does special education and is involved with deciding accomodations for the children she works with. It is not uncommon for the more involved and more knowledgable parents to get more services for their children. Obviously every kid should get the resources and attention they need but schools have limited resources and frequently changing the accomodations of the kids drives up costs and also creates more work for the staff.
Bottom line is that if you put your kid in public school and put in the effort to be involved in the education of your child you can frequently achieve similar results to a standard private school, but it does take real time and effort. Sending your kids to any school should not be a passive process for the parents.

If you plan ahead, they have some really great options for cloth diapers these days - they snap together and are super easy to clean - you can use rice paper liners to almost completely avoid any toilet-swishing. see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-jJyriSDtU&feature=player_embedded# for more info. yes you still have to wash them.

Also - check eBay for the diapers and Amazon for the liners. Find good deals on eBay and then search those brands for reviews.

onetwo3 said: Figure out what things you can buy that will safely meet your needs.
To add to this at least half of my friends who have had kids decided they needed a new van or SUV to replace their compact car either during the pregnancy or immediately after the child is born. Some cited safety concerns (although some SUVs are more dangerous due to rollover risks) and some claimed their infant was too cramped in the back seat! Obviously a van might be necessary for a family of 5-7, but a family of four used to get by just fine in a mid-size sedan.
I would add not to buy anything (new or used) until you are certain you need it now and not just assuming it will be necessary next month. Like many other non-child rearing things in life, often you find that you can make do without something you thought was impossible to live without. Several friends have bought things like baby bathtubs (only to discover it is easier just to use the kitchen sink), expensive baby monitors (but the kid ends up sleeping in the parents room), two car seats (but the kid only ever rides in one car), two types of strollers (but the second one never gets used) etc.
Another area of waste I see is parents constantly running to the doctor for the slightest problem. "My baby pulled on his hear so I took him to the doctor because I thought he had an ear infection," "my child is misbehaving so I wanted to ask the doctor what to do," "my child has a runny nose," etc, etc. Use the internet, talk to your parents, friends, read a book. Learn how to pre-diagnose your child's problems before making a costly trip to the doctor or ER. You do not have the first child and often today's parents seem to be overly dramatic about their child's problems. Most often my friends return from the doctor without any medicine or treatment. I think somehow they need reassurance from the doctor they are not a bad parent.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned to make sure you buy a very nice sewing machine. Once they're 3 or 4, their little hands are nimble, fast, and can sew together all sorts of things. A few hours a day over a year or two making clothes or baseballs or whatever, and they've paid for their own food, healthcare, and rent.

Also, after you've had your first child, remember that a woman's fertility gets rejiggered by nature somehow, and even having thoughts of unprotected intercourse can result in additional mouths to feed. Get back on birth control quickly or risk having the dreaded irish twins in your family.

patch96 said: You people are hilarious. Especially because i used to think EXACTLY like you do about kids.

Now that i have one, I wish I was a polygamist so I could have FIFTY.

Let me explain this to you in as few words as possible.

When my son is sitting across the table from me at dinner. HE IS ME.


He eats, laughs, sleeps, talks, burps, interrupts, jumps, even dumps, etc. JUST LIKE ME.

How better in life is THAT!!!

Our country/civilization is TRULY in trouble as the people who should be having kids are having 1 or none and those that.... maybe should not be parents are having 12.

You people are truly missing out. And, FWIW, You can only screw so many skanks. (beleive me I tried and succeeded)

And, FYI, i did not have a kid at 18-23, and he was planned. Maybe that makes a difference.

Odd. I never considered my son a clone of me. He has some of my traits, good and bad, and (thankfully) some of his mom's traits. Despite common attributes, he also has traits that make him unique -- thank goodness for that.

While I agree there are parents who have no business having kids, I don't believe that one should have children in order to protect some sort of racial, cultural, or genetic pool, which is the type of thing Pat Buchanan (whom you mention admiringly in another post) advocates. There's not a huge leap from that type of attitude to a eugenics viewpoint, which in turn can lead to (and has led to) far worse things than your (and Pat's) fears about the perils to our "country/civilization."

Don't get me wrong: as a society we have lots of problems with kids and how they are educated and brought up. I believe the proper approach is to try to solve the problems by addressing them directly, not by taking a eugenics-like approach as you seem to encourage.

As far as having kids the FWF way -- surely OP didn't mean the FW Hot Deals way <g>, of course it's going to be more expensive than not having children. The best we can do is to try to pass on our financial (and other) values to our children by example.

biomedeng said:
My wife is a teacher. She tells me that the active, involved, and persistent parents get what they want. Principal says no parent can pick their child's teacher but wife tells me that PTA president, parents who are also teachers, and other involved people do pick their kids teacher. Also complaining parents frequently get put to a better teacher to shut them up. My wife does special education and is involved with deciding accomodations for the children she works with. It is not uncommon for the more involved and more knowledgable parents to get more services for their children.


My wife's a teacher and she hates those helicopter parents and spineless lazy principals who cave to them.

Consider having 1 of the parents work an off shift.I worked nights and took care of my child during the day. my wife worked days, I slept when my kid slept...

20-years ago, we pre-paid the hospital for the delivery and received a discount. After our son's birth we filed the insurance claim and received more than we paid up front. But then again, that was when I actually had a job and my employer provided my family's health insurance. How could 20-years seem so long ago?

mhesidence said: My wife's a teacher and she hates those helicopter parents and spineless lazy principals who cave to them.
My wife doesn't particularly like the helicopter parents either. But the point is that in the broken system called public education these parents frequently get more than their fair share of the precious resources. From the viewpoint of the child's education it is better to err on being a helicopter parent than a lazy uninvolved parent. The kids of the lazy or uninvolved parents frequently fall through the cracks.
Even worse for my wife are the parents who don't give a crap about their kids education, the same parents who view the school as a babysitting service. Seriously, there is one kid at her school (aged 8 or 9) who multiple times has run outside of the school into the road (a US highway). My wife went to a meeting about this issue and the parent actually complained that she is angry that the school calls her every time the kid runs into the road. She said she didn't want any more calls and was tired of having to come pick up the kid early when he is misbehaving. I can tell you story after story of kids whose parents did not care enough to come up to the school when there is a HUGE problem with the childs behavior and/or learning.

Make sure your kids are born on December 31st. Minimum cost and highest tax deduction.

RailroadTrack said:
Paying 10% more for day care in a month for your child to be in a better environment is worth it, for example. They'll be healthier, happier, and will probably be more social.


You are right about the happier and healthier part. But the good dayschools in my area are actually about 30 - 50% more expensive than the average daycare.

I see it as an investment because my child gets more individual attention, is actually taught things instead of just thrown in a room with some toys, and is in a class with less children so she doesn't get sick as often as other kids (which translates to less of my PTO days used caring for a sick kid).

biomedeng said: mhesidence said: My wife's a teacher and she hates those helicopter parents and spineless lazy principals who cave to them.
My wife doesn't particularly like the helicopter parents either. But the point is that in the broken system called public education these parents frequently get more than their fair share of the precious resources. From the viewpoint of the child's education it is better to err on being a helicopter parent than a lazy uninvolved parent. The kids of the lazy or uninvolved parents frequently fall through the cracks.


In high school I did the research about each teacher I was assigned to before each year started and switched when needed. I networked with my older peers of similar academic interest and even used some of the online options like ratemyteachers.com. As long as you understand the academic motivation and maturity of where the comments are coming from you can usually get a pretty good idea of the quality of a teacher.

I wasn't technically allowed to switch but the guidance counselors liked to see the initiative of someone switching to a harder class/teacher and on a couple occasions even agreed that I was making a "smart move". They knew how terrible some of the teachers were, but couldn't do anything about it. It's a broken system and you should try to get the best for your kids. I saved myself a lot of wasted time.

TxAggieJen said: RailroadTrack said:
Paying 10% more for day care in a month for your child to be in a better environment is worth it, for example. They'll be healthier, happier, and will probably be more social.


You are right about the happier and healthier part. But the good dayschools in my area are actually about 30 - 50% more expensive than the average daycare.

I see it as an investment because my child gets more individual attention, is actually taught things instead of just thrown in a room with some toys, and is in a class with less children so she doesn't get sick as often as other kids (which translates to less of my PTO days used caring for a sick kid).

Disclaimer: I don't have kids, but I know many people who have used daycares and I have also investigated my options should I have a kid. I have seen daycares in my area run the range of 800/month to 1600/month. First of all every place is different and just because the price is higher does not make it better.
If I had a kid I would be happy to pay 50% more for a place my child gets sick less often, but that is hard for me to imagine that your daycare has less illness than another daycare. Are there statistics on these kinds of things or is it just a feeling you have? I really think you are dreaming if you think your kid is less sick because the daycare has a higher staff to kid ratio.
I have investigated these $1600/month daycares where they have activities such as teaching Spanish (even before the child can speak a sentence of English) and baby yoga (I am not kidding about this). Although I am a believer in most aspects of early childhood education, I am skeptical that these activites (foreign language, baby exercise) offer long-term benefits to children under the age of 3. I have also seen $800/month daycares where although some of the staff do not speak English their care and treatment of the children (particularly the infants) far exceeds the more expensive daycares. Also the yuppie expensive daycares in my area have 8 or 9 hour limits on the time your kid can be there (even though they are open 11 or 12 hours). They say it is bad for the kid to stay there too long (perhaps it is good for their bottom line?). Also these places close if there are a few flurries of snow (but you still have to pay even if they are closed). The cheap, more ghetto daycares will let you keep your kid there as long as they are open and stay open regardless of the weather.

If you adopt though your public agency, NOT PRIVATELY, it is cheap and there are generous tax writeoffs. It could actually turn out to be a net profit on the whole deal, until college at least.

cameron2003 said: If you adopt though your public agency, NOT PRIVATELY, it is cheap and there are generous tax writeoffs. It could actually turn out to be a net profit on the whole deal, until college at least.
Wife and I have looked into this. Often if you want an infant this is not the way to go, since there is extremely high demand for infants. However, if you are willing to adopt an older child (5 and up), a child of a minority race (black or hispanic in my state), or a child with a moderate to severe behavior or health condition then sometimes the state will waive all adoption costs and give you medicaid for the child until they turn 18.
If you are serious about adopting one option is to become foster parents. In my area at least you can dictate how many children and what ages you will take. This way you can evaluate the kids before you decide on adoption, as well as you will be already considered adoptable parents since you and your home have already been evaluated.

#11 on the quick summary is just sad

bb6619 said: Consider having 1 of the parents work an off shift.I worked nights and took care of my child during the day. my wife worked days, I slept when my kid slept...

which leads to divorce, and more expense, because you rarely get to see your wife

mrredskin said: #11 on the quick summary is just sad

I thought it was funny. It shows that he is not (yet) over run by commercialism. I'm not saying he actually got a paper bag for Christmas and I have no idea where to get a Snow machine. He received some lovely toys, many of which I purchased in great conditions at garage sales.

double post. beg for mercy

* A big church near us has a once-a-year fundraiser selling kids' clothing that parishoners have donated. We've done very well buying clothes there and I highly recommend events like this.
* Target diapers have worked very well for us at half the cost of Pampers. Although Pampers do work a little better at night.
* Try to have all boys or all girls. That way you only have to buy clothes and toys for one gender.
* Live near your mother or mother-in-law... cuts way down on babysitting costs.
* If you're expecting a baby and are intimidated by all the crap they have at Babies-R-Us, read "Baby Bargains" by Denise Fields to help you figure out what you need and what you don't.

luvbugium said: mrredskin said: #11 on the quick summary is just sad

I thought it was funny. It shows that he is not (yet) over run by commercialism. I'm not saying he actually got a paper bag for Christmas and I have no idea where to get a Snow machine. He received some lovely toys, many of which I purchased in great conditions at garage sales.


That's great for now, but make sure you wean him onto 'real' advertising before he leaves the house (or highschool, I don't really know), otherwise he will 'need' everything he ever sees in a commercial. He needs to learn the power of determining what he really 'wants' without immediate stimuli from advertising: impulse control.

Huh!!! unless its adoption...i don't see how we can decide on this?

BarryAndLevon said: * Try to have all boys or all girls. That way you only have to buy clothes and toys for one gender.

koolfind said: Huh!!! unless its adoption...i don't see how we can decide on this?

BarryAndLevon said: * Try to have all boys or all girls. That way you only have to buy clothes and toys for one gender.

It can be done, it just takes a great deal of concentration.

glxpass said: patch96 said: You people are hilarious. Especially because i used to think EXACTLY like you do about kids.

Now that i have one, I wish I was a polygamist so I could have FIFTY.

Let me explain this to you in as few words as possible.

When my son is sitting across the table from me at dinner. HE IS ME.


He eats, laughs, sleeps, talks, burps, interrupts, jumps, even dumps, etc. JUST LIKE ME.

How better in life is THAT!!!

Our country/civilization is TRULY in trouble as the people who should be having kids are having 1 or none and those that.... maybe should not be parents are having 12.

You people are truly missing out. And, FWIW, You can only screw so many skanks. (beleive me I tried and succeeded)

And, FYI, i did not have a kid at 18-23, and he was planned. Maybe that makes a difference.

Odd. I never considered my son a clone of me. He has some of my traits, good and bad, and (thankfully) some of his mom's traits. Despite common attributes, he also has traits that make him unique -- thank goodness for that.

While I agree there are parents who have no business having kids, I don't believe that one should have children in order to protect some sort of racial, cultural, or genetic pool, which is the type of thing Pat Buchanan (whom you mention admiringly in another post) advocates. There's not a huge leap from that type of attitude to a eugenics viewpoint, which in turn can lead to (and has led to) far worse things than your (and Pat's) fears about the perils to our "country/civilization."

Don't get me wrong: as a society we have lots of problems with kids and how they are educated and brought up. I believe the proper approach is to try to solve the problems by addressing them directly, not by taking a eugenics-like approach as you seem to encourage.

As far as having kids the FWF way -- surely OP didn't mean the FW Hot Deals way <g>, of course it's going to be more expensive than not having children. The best we can do is to try to pass on our financial (and other) values to our children by example.


I am NOT pat Buchanan advocate in any way. However, I do have the analytical skills to decipher the accuracy of the message from the politics of the messenger.

Many western countries are being forever "changed" as women who are entering the workforce and fighting for their JUST DESERVED rights are simultaneously forgoing motherhood. Just as any intelligent woman realizes that its better for the child's health to have kids before 40 than after, many countries are finding that they are being changed DRASTICALLY through low birth rates of their non-immigrant populace. YES, some involved in this dialog has racist/xenophobic motives. However, this factor does eliminate that there are other dire consequences and distinct cultural impacts on the mass decision of many non-immigrant women to not have children.

Lastly, if I had a dollar for every man/woman who vehemently thought they never wante a kid who after haivng one now LOVE being a mother/father , I would be a gazillionaire.

Patch, I hope you realize that >95% of people in this country are descended from immigrants of one sort or another. The great-great-grandparents of the wealthy lawyers/doctors in Boston and New York were, at one time, considered the scum of the earth. I don't know Pat Buchanan's ethnic make-up, but he looks fairly Scotch/Irish...so the same analysis can be applied to his ancestry.

I believe you're suffering from rectal-cranial inversion on this subject.

TheRealRayCharles said: luvbugium said: mrredskin said: #11 on the quick summary is just sad

I thought it was funny. It shows that he is not (yet) over run by commercialism. I'm not saying he actually got a paper bag for Christmas and I have no idea where to get a Snow machine. He received some lovely toys, many of which I purchased in great conditions at garage sales.


That's great for now, but make sure you wean him onto 'real' advertising before he leaves the house (or highschool, I don't really know), otherwise he will 'need' everything he ever sees in a commercial. He needs to learn the power of determining what he really 'wants' without immediate stimuli from advertising: impulse control.


Between not watching a lot of tv, and what I do watch is all downloaded, I've avoided almost all ads. Its an interesting life.

arch8ngel said: Patch, I hope you realize that >95% of people in this country are descended from immigrants of one sort or another. The great-great-grandparents of the wealthy lawyers/doctors in Boston and New York were, at one time, considered the scum of the earth.

Thanks for stating something as obvious as air.

FYI, I grew up in the most diverse city in the US with numerous ethnicities where 75% of my friends (of different ethnicities) had grandmothere/fathers living at home who could not speak english.

But all of this does not change the message contained in the Pat Buchanan text. Low birth rates have societal consequences.

As the father of three who recently had a wake up call on a personal level here is some brief advise:

1) if you wait till you are ready you and/or afford it you will never have kids.
2) no one ever says they regret spending to much time with their kids when they were young.

I was a partner at a huge (1,000+) law firm and recently left to join a smaller (100 attorney) firm so I could spend more time with my family. Best choice I ever made.

btw, one has kids the FW hot deal way by buying cheap condoms that break after getting a girl drunk on quarter draft night. Just saying...

patch96 said: arch8ngel said: Patch, I hope you realize that >95% of people in this country are descended from immigrants of one sort or another. The great-great-grandparents of the wealthy lawyers/doctors in Boston and New York were, at one time, considered the scum of the earth.

Thanks for stating something as obvious as air.

FYI, I grew up in the most diverse city in the US with numerous ethnicities where 75% of my friends (of different ethnicities) had grandmothere/fathers living at home who could not speak english.

But all of this does not change the message contained in the Pat Buchanan text. Low birth rates have societal consequences.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're saying that high birth rates from immigrants and low birth rates for non-immigrants are bad.

As long as overall birth rates are steady, or increasing, how does what you're saying not come off as xenophobic or some kind of elitist "white man's burden"?

* Try to have all boys or all girls. That way you only have to buy clothes and toys for one gender.


I think having a mix of boys and girls is good for their social development.

How to have kids the fatwallet way?

They better be white, english-speakers, shop at the gap, and must be way better than everyone else's brats that are just dragging down society.

Get paid to donate sperm. Use a fake name. If possible avoid clinics so that you can inject it yourself naturally or at least get to watch some lesbo-turkey-baster action. Alternatively, date well-off married women not on the pill. Use a fake name.

large consignment sales (not the stores). We have several big ones in the area every season. I get a TON of clothes and toys for cheap, especially on the dollar dash days. ($1 an outfit! $1 for a toy!).

-birth center vs. hospital if you are low risk and healthy - hospital is more expensive

-if you do a hospital birth, you don't have to stay after you have the baby. You can check yourself out. Saves you some costs there. Plus, you lower your risk of getting a hospital-related infection. Trust me, I've BTDT.

-who needs diapers? Look up elimination communication. Granted, we had to put our daughter in diapers once she started daycare. *sigh*

-agree with a previous poster about breastfeeding. I didn't have to buy bottles or formula with my daughter. Saved me a ton. I just had to go to her daycare several times a day to nurse her.

That's all I can think of for now.

luvbugium said:


11. My kids can watch PBS and videos and that's it. There's no merchandise commercials in them. When Kyle was four he asked Santa for "an ice cream machine, a snow maker and a paper bag he can turn into a puppet and that's all." Imagine his list if he had been watching all the cartoons that are about merchandising products to kids.



How do you think this is going to help the child when he goes out and sees the 'real' world? You'll be surprised to see how well informed even our kindergarteners are!

I taught my kids the reasons for commercials...they are trying to get you to buy their product..they use loud music, voices and such to get your attention. It gave them a sense of control to NOT fall for the ads, to look at things critically and decide whether they wanted it because the ad says its "cool" or because they have a real reason to want the item. It kinda puts them "in the know" at an early age at what the advertisers are up to.

longwood8 said: 1) if you wait till you are ready you and/or afford it you will never have kids.

Perhaps true in most cases, but I'm happy to be the counter-example. Been married 9 years and put off having kids for just those reasons. Now we're going to have our first child this summer (and yes, it was planned).

my tax profs always said to have kids on 12/31 so you get the full deduction for the entire year...



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