How to have kids the FatWallet way?

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geo123 said:
Regardless, from a lay person's point of view, the focus on c-sections is a bit misplaced. The focus ought to be on finding a doctor that you are comfortable with and whom you trust and then relying on him/her to advise you regarding the safest and most "comfortable" way to have a baby, both for the mother as well as for the baby. Depending on what's going on, a c-section will sometimes be the safest and the most "comfortable" way to do so and in many times it won't. As a lay person, you'll be best served by selecting the doctor that's right for you and then relying on him/her to make the right decision.


As someone who is about to give birth any day and has recently done a lot of research on the subject, I have to chime in. While I agree that finding a doctor or midwife you trust is key, I wholeheartedly disagree that allowing him/her to make decisions for you is the best approach. Mothers can and should be the ones who ultimately make decisions in the care of themselves and their babies. There are several factors at play that influence the doctors' advice, and without getting into too much detail these include our litigious society, the desire to increase revenue for hospitals, and scheduling convenience (as mentioned by biomedeng). Doctors are practicing CYA - and I for one can't blame them given our history of malpractice lawsuits. Unfortunately, this does not necessarily translate to better care but more care, necessary or not, because a doctor is much more likely to be sued for not doing something than for doing something unnecessary.

I interviewed several doctors before selecting the OB I'm going with now. One of the actually told me "I won't let you go past 41 weeks without inducing you" (never mind that the average gestation period for a first time mother is 41 weeks, 1 day). She never bothered to inform me that interventions often lead to a cascade of other interventions, or that by being induced, my chances of a c-section would increase by over 25%, or that side effects of Pitocin, the drug used for inductions, can include fetal distress, uterine rupture, cardiac failure, hallucinations, and (much less commonly) maternal or infant death. She also implied with her statement that she has the right to make all decisions with respect to my care. In fact, mothers can refuse any treatment at any time. Doctors give advice, not orders.

I found an OB that I like a lot better and is much more natural birth friendly, but I still do not completely trust her to make decisions for me. If she recommends any interventions while I'm in labor, I'll ask her the pros and cons of the interventions, have her describe any alternatives, and then ask her to leave the room for a few minutes while I discuss it with my husband and we ultimately decide how we want to proceed. I also plan to go to the hospital only after laboring at home for several hours, because I know that my 24-hour count down to a "mandatory" c-section will begin the moment I walk in.

Here is an article written by a woman who decided to trust her doctor to make decisions for her during labor.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38129344?ocid=twitter

It's very long, so for those who don't want to read it I think the caption summarizes it: "My first birth was traumatic," writes Taffy Brodesser-Akner, seen here with her son, "and although my son and I emerged fine, I lost a year seeking treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder and all the depression, fear and anger it brings."

Mariah, if I've learned anything, it's that you should never argue with a pregnant woman. Best of luck with the delivery. I really hope that everything goes smoothly!

On a more serious note, let me attempt to better define the context for this discussion. As I've previously mentioned, I am not an MD and am certainly not an OB, but have seen these exact discussions and these exact arguments countless times, so I think that I have an idea about the usual response that some of the above comments tend to elicit. There is no OB out there that's "pro C-section," meaning that no OB out there thinks that a c-section ought to be your first choice. Instead, when it comes to any medical decision out there, there is always a balancing act and there are risks and consequences to any decision. Hence, it is not necessary to argue that it would be "better" to avoid a c-section -- there's no disagreement on this issue. Likewise, listing just the potential risks of a c-section is only looking at one side of the equation, which does not really advance this discussion a whole lot. You have to weigh the specific risks of not doing a c-section in each case against the risks associated with one and then select the lesser of two evils.

I don't think that there's anything debatable or controversial in what I wrote and it seems pretty self evident. The problem is, if you psych yourself out for or against a certain procedure, you do so in a vacuum, because you obviously can't predict what will happen on the delivery date. Then, if things do not go exactly according to plan, people freak out, which can make the situation a lot more dangerous than it has to be. Hence, what most OB's will tell you is that while a c-section is never the preferred delivery method in general, people need to keep an open mind and realize that quickly changing individual circumstances can often change that.

MariahJ said: As someone who is about to give birth any day and has recently done a lot of research on the subject, I have to chime in. While I agree that finding a doctor or midwife you trust is key, I wholeheartedly disagree that allowing him/her to make decisions for you is the best approach. Mothers can and should be the ones who ultimately make decisions in the care of themselves and their babies.

Sure, patients should have the ultimate say. But while a doctor will be considering the other factors you indicated, they still have the best knowledge to provide the best medical advice. And, in the middle of childbirth, you do not have the opportunity for something like seeking a second opinion. That's why the advice of dinding the right provider (which it appeared you followed)is Crucial. Additionally, it is helpful to do research on options during childbirth and, for non-urgent decisions, get the info on choices before having to decide (as you described). But when push comes to shove (pun fully intended), do you really want your doctor to be stopping at Crucial moments going "Your baby's heart is not beating. I want to move forward with a medical procedure, but you said you want to make all the decisions. Is this okay? Let me take the two minutes it will take for your child to die to instead explain pros and cons." There's a happy medium where you have a medical provider who gives you as much leeway as possible in the birthing process, but that you do trust to make critical decisions.

MariahJ said: Here is an article written by a woman who decided to trust her doctor to make decisions for her during labor.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38129344?ocid=twitter

It's very long, so for those who don't want to read it I think the caption summarizes it: "My first birth was traumatic," writes Taffy Brodesser-Akner, seen here with her son, "and although my son and I emerged fine, I lost a year seeking treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder and all the depression, fear and anger it brings."


And here is an article that indicates that the infanat mortality rate is three times higher for home births: Article on home births tripling the rate of infant death. Again, these kinds of things (your article and mine) are at the fringe. Most home births are not deaths. And most hospital deliveries are not done by hacks who just want to make money or don't give a rat's patootie about their patients.

I don't disagree (and I'm pretty sure geo123 doesn't) that people need to do their research about births, options, etc. And that finding a good medical provider, who will work with you as much as possible, is important. I think the mechanic analogy is still apt, in that, if I go to a mechanic, she/he is likely to recommend more that needs to be fixed on my car than is absolutely necessary. But if I have a mechanic I trust, I know that they have my best interests in mind (even though they have other factors to consider), so it makes sense to generally go with their recommendations.

dcg9381 said: BilldaCat said:
Is this .. normal? Given my high deductible plan, I imagine we're going to be hitting that $3k ceiling pretty easily with a newborn in 2011, but I'm wondering by how much, and if I'm better off looking for a separate policy for the child. Is this even really an option, or would I have to switch myself (or my spouse) to that policy as well?


It depends. I've seen it done a few ways.
Doc visits on a newborn are certainly more expensive than a typical healthy adult.

Two ways I've seen it:
1) Plans for employee and X dependents. X dependents scale.. So +1 cost X more, +2 costs X+X more, etc.
2) Plans for employee and family. Basically the "family" plan covers all dependents. This basically means that those with no kids or a low number of kids subsidize those with more kids...

Almost always: A plan co-paid by the employer is going to beat going out to find one on your own...


Yeah, we're in the #2 area.. my options are:

Me (90% premium covered by company, so like $20 .. a steal)
Spouse
Child
Children
Family .. which is what I'll need since I still have to cover my spouse. I guess I can look forward to the rate not going up when we have a second kid at least.

With it being a FSA and a $3k max deductible, I assume I'm best off tossing $3k in there a year and then I'm more or less good to go. Just trying to figure out what to do in regards to child credits, claiming exemptions, etc.

Kids are expensive and I haven't even had one yet.

Personal opinion from a mother of two, I would not go anywhere close to a home birth. My understanding and perception of the child birth process was very different before I had my first child v. how it is now after having two. My first was born at 41+ weeks, 22+ hours of labor, ultimately ending in a C section (which was the right decision according to me). My second came at 31 weeks, I went into pre term labor at 27 weeks. There is no way I would want to labor at home for a few hours just to keep the 24 hours window available after I get to the hospital. Your health could spiral downwards in about 5 seconds. Your baby could arrive in the first hour of labor. I have had several friends who had babies at 37-38 weeks and these babies still needed some NICU care. How can you tell ahead of time what you might/might not encounter? Just my two cents. Every pregnancy is different, every delivery is different. Ultimately, the health of the baby and the mom is more important than the c-section v. natural birth debate. There are 000s of things that can and do go wrong with childbirth even in the 21st century. With my second pregnancy, which turned out to be high-risk, I had doctors that I would trust my life with on any given day. They were conservative in their approach of handling my situation, including fighting with my insurance to authorize my hospitalization when I went into pre term labor. As it turns out, everything they were doing was exactly what I/my baby needed. I would not say that about the doctors who handled my first pregnancy, so we do need to be informed and assertive.

I must add, we should probably try to get back the original intent of this thread.

MariahJ said: I interviewed several doctors before selecting the OB I'm going with now. One of the actually told me "I won't let you go past 41 weeks without inducing you" (never mind that the average gestation period for a first time mother is 41 weeks, 1 day). She never bothered to inform me that interventions often lead to a cascade of other interventions, or that by being induced, my chances of a c-section would increase by over 25%, or that side effects of Pitocin, the drug used for inductions, can include fetal distress, uterine rupture, cardiac failure, hallucinations, and (much less commonly) maternal or infant death.A peer reviewed journal of the American Academy of Family Physicians: Management of Pregnancy Beyond 40 Weeks' Gestation: "Studies show a reduction in the rate of cesarean deliveries and possibly in neonatal mortality with a policy of routine labor induction at 41 weeks' gestation."

OB's feelings on these issues vary somewhat, as does their comfort level with letting you go past 41 weeks. It just wouldn't be unusual for OB's to take the position that even in the absence of additional risk factors, an induction at 41 weeks would be appropriate, and medical literature contains plenty of support for this position. I am well aware of the existence of the literature on the other side of this discussion as well and am not trying to get in the middle of it. All I am saying is that OB's who take this position do have a number of well respected studies on their side, so this position is anything but frivolous.

biomedeng said: TxAggieJen said: RailroadTrack said: Also the yuppie expensive daycares in my area have 8 or 9 hour limits on the time your kid can be there (even though they are open 11 or 12 hours). They say it is bad for the kid to stay there too long (perhaps it is good for their bottom line?). Also these places close if there are a few flurries of snow (but you still have to pay even if they are closed). The cheap, more ghetto daycares will let you keep your kid there as long as they are open and stay open regardless of the weather.



Why are people even having children if they are going to hand them over to someone else to 'raise' for 8-11 hours a day?? Children aren't pets that you see for an hour or two between when you get home from work and bedtime.

I think skipping day care and having a parent stay home to parent the child is not only a way to save money, more importantly its better for the child. In "Save Big" Save Big, the author describes how to to figure the % of taxes paid on the second income in a two-income situation. Even though my income was 48% of the total, the taxes paid on my income made up appx. 70% of the total!

IOPSC said: I think skipping day care and having a parent stay home to parent the child is not only a way to save money, more importantly its better for the child.We are really opening up a can of worms with these topics

Just to preempt all the poo flinging that usually erupts when these types of topics open up, let me just give you the most common response to your statement. Kids need social interaction, so there's a rather compelling argument out there that you are doing your kids a disservice by keeping them at home after a certain age. You can certainly provide them with some social interaction by organizing play groups, but, the argument goes, those are small and preselected, so these groups do not provide them with the same lessons that they get from interacting with other kids in pre-k's, etc... Further, just because you are staying at home with your kids does not automatically mean that you are doing a good job with them. It's very easy for stay at home parents to lose the energy and the motivation required to consistently do a good job with their kids.

Personally, I am a big believer in that there is no one right way to raise your kids and that different things just work for different people. I am also a big believer in moderation, so that while it does seem problematic, at least to me, if both parents consistently work 14 hour days and hardly see their kids, I don't think that good parenting necessarily requires one spouse to stay home full time. Just my $0.02.

Find out the C-section rate for your own physician and for your hospital. Most moms around here (expensive suburb) are surprised to discover that our local hospital has a very high C-section rate - and delivers very few babies at night or on weekends, so there is often no expert staff/OB around then (if you're in fast labor or have complications then).

You can make your own decisions about trusting your MD, but you need as much information as you can get.

geo123 said: MariahJ said: I interviewed several doctors before selecting the OB I'm going with now. One of the actually told me "I won't let you go past 41 weeks without inducing you" (never mind that the average gestation period for a first time mother is 41 weeks, 1 day). She never bothered to inform me that interventions often lead to a cascade of other interventions, or that by being induced, my chances of a c-section would increase by over 25%, or that side effects of Pitocin, the drug used for inductions, can include fetal distress, uterine rupture, cardiac failure, hallucinations, and (much less commonly) maternal or infant death.A peer reviewed journal of the American Academy of Family Physicians: Management of Pregnancy Beyond 40 Weeks' Gestation: "Studies show a reduction in the rate of cesarean deliveries and possibly in neonatal mortality with a policy of routine labor induction at 41 weeks' gestation."

OB's feelings on these issues vary somewhat, as does their comfort level with letting you go past 41 weeks. It just wouldn't be unusual for OB's to take the position that even in the absence of additional risk factors, an induction at 41 weeks would be appropriate, and medical literature contains plenty of support for this position. I am well aware of the existence of the literature on the other side of this discussion as well and am not trying to get in the middle of it. All I am saying is that OB's who take this position do have a number of well respected studies on their side, so this position is anything but frivolous.


I glad you brought up that there is a great deal of research supporting the opposite position, because otherwise I'd have to find some articles and link them for you. My point was not necessarily to show that the OB is wrong, but that she never mentioned the numerous risks and potential complications associated with her advice. I think that's more common than not, and that is why women should do their own research and draw their own conclusions on what's most appropriate for them.

By the way, I'm not advocating home birth; I have chosen a hospital birth myself. However, in my situation (low risk, healthy pregnancy and live 2 miles from the hospital) staying home as long as things are going well and I'm more comfortable there makes the most sense, and will give me the best chance at achieving a natural birth. And yes, as someone mentioned things can change quickly during labor, but I'm 10 minutes max from the hospital during rush hour and it takes 15 minutes to prepare an OR. It's typically not the super fast births where the baby is accidentally born in the car on the way to the hospital that have complications; complications tend to slow labor down.

Sorry to the OP for taking this thread off track.

geo123 said: Kids need social interaction, so there's a rather compelling argument out there that you are doing your kids a disservice by keeping them at home after a certain age.

I appreciate the civil way you are disagreeing; it is a nice change of pace on how folks usually address this topic! . I read a great quote in a book on homeschooling in which a parent stated what was her child going to learn 'socially' at public school...how to conform to the 'norms' established by the most vociferous groups of kids? Another mentioned how she was being a stay-at-home-mom and was glad her child's early memories wouldn't include the day Johnny bit him, or Suzy punched him at daycare.

Up until around age two or so, children engage in parallel play in which they play along side to, not really with, other kids. So, it's true they should be interacting with others, but I personally see play groups at this age as kind of silly!

True that not all stay at home experiences are good...a parent needs to be engaged (I'm a huge fan of much of Dr. William and Martha Sear s attachment parenting ideas The Baby Book

Anyway, re: the questions that started the thread:

1. If you use disposable diapers, take advantage of loyalty codes (ie: Pampers Gifts to Grow) for freebies. Don't forget to sign up for FW Notification when a nice person posts free codes!

2. As already stated, breastfeeding saves so much money over formula, plus is truly natural, doesn't have to be heated and mixed like formula, and can save money in the long run with doctor's visits, as breastfed babies have lower rates of a range of illnesses (PS-another reason to avoid daycare, IMO). See book link above.

3. Breast pumps - Someone mentioned dads not being able to help with breastfeeding - not true. Buy a pump and pump milk. Dad can help with feeding this way. Pumps can be pricey, but still cheaper than formula, and some insurance companies will pay for a pump (inquire at hospital before mom/baby are discharged).

4. If BF, poopy diapers aren't as, well, poopy, as with formula. So, until we started introducing solid foods, we skipped disposable wipes (except for travel)and instead used/reused cheap washcloths (some cut in half for really small clean ups).

5. Libraries are great for books, dvds, but also some offer discount/free passes to all sorts of attractions. Also, find great deals on children's books at their "Friends of the Library" book sales - books for $.25-$1.00 each (I was shocked at how expensive new children's books are!). Check out free story time programs too (great for those under-socialized non-day care kids - lol ).

6. geo123 said: In addition to a rectal thermometer, which is a must have for any parents with an infant, consider purchasing an ear or a temporal thermometer.

Keep in mind that most pediatricians will tell you that if you have an infant and contact them after hours with a question, they will only accept a rectal thermometer reading, as they are considered the most precise ones. Temporal and ear thermometers are certainly a lot more expensive and less precise, but they are extremely fast. If you have a child who is really upset and not feeling well, temporal and/or ear thermometer will allow you to very quickly get a fairly good idea about the seriousness of the situation without upsetting the child even further. At that point, you'll know whether you need to use a rectal thermometer to get a precise reading or whether it's no biggie and a home treatment will suffice.


Good point on the temporal thermometer - after having two digital ones croak shortly after buying, we bought an Exergen Temporal Artery Thermometer. More initial cost, but so far the more frugal (FW!) choice, as it is way easier to use, is still working (knock on wood), seems more accurate than the digital. Also, made in USA, which I like!

RE: the posts on home births vs hospital, etc... I don't think anyone has mentioned employing a doula. DONA International

A doula is sort of a helper, educator and coach, but not a midwife or doctor. She doesn't deliver the baby, but can provide pregnancy and birth education, serve as labor coach, and possibly after-birth assistance, and can help you to have kids the FW way by helping you sort through your options on a lot of things (inc. feeding, diapering, etc.).

All this talk about birth reminded me how happy I was that I signed up for the more expensive health insurance at work. The birth for the twins was over 20k (including all the drugs I begged for....natural might be cheaper but I'm telling you when you give birth to twins that are 7lbs 2 oz and 8 lbs 2 oz I'm thinking the drugs are worth it) and we didn't pay a dime. The hospital even fed my husband extra and wonderful food, which was a nice touch at helping him feel comfortable staying with me and helping.

IOPSC said: RE: the posts on home births vs hospital, etc... I don't think anyone has mentioned employing a doula. DONA International

A doula is sort of a helper, educator and coach, but not a midwife or doctor. She doesn't deliver the baby, but can provide pregnancy and birth education, serve as labor coach, and possibly after-birth assistance, and can help you to have kids the FW way by helping you sort through your options on a lot of things (inc. feeding, diapering, etc.).

I'll second this suggestion, especially for first time mothers with no family living nearby, to help during the childbirth. My wife and I hired a doula and she was a constant advocate, asking the questions we didn't know to ask.

IOPSC said: I appreciate the civil way you are disagreeing; it is a nice change of pace on how folks usually address this topic! .Thanks. This has been a very nice and civil thread and I wanted to jump in to try to keep it this way, as these types of topics tend to be extremely volatile. Nothing gets people riled up more, and with good reason I might add, than an unsolicited suggestion by a stranger that they are being bad parents. I know you weren't trying to say that but I think it would've been easy to interpret your statement that way.

I read a great quote in a book on homeschooling in which a parent stated what was her child going to learn 'socially' at public school...how to conform to the 'norms' established by the most vociferous groups of kids? Another mentioned how she was being a stay-at-home-mom and was glad her child's early memories wouldn't include the day Johnny bit him, or Suzy punched him at daycare.There's an easy response to this. As much as parents might want to, they can't keep their kids in a bubble to protect them from all the evils of the outside world. Hence, sooner or later kids will have to learn to deal with vociferous groups. If they learn to do so at a young age, it's a much easier process for them and they won't feel "strange" or "weird," as they would if they don't acquire these skills until they are teenagers and are the only ones without those skills. Further, these types of interactions also teach kids how to be assertive, how to share, how to take turns and how to properly resolve conflicts with other kids. These types of interactions also teach them how to develop friendships. These are all life long skills that make them well rounded individuals and acquiring all these skills early improves the likelihood that they'll be successful in other areas as well. This is simply not something that you can teach through adult interaction or even through small, pre-selected play groups.

Hence, the reason that even couples where one of the spouses stays home with kids still tend to send their little ones to pre-k, at least part time, when they turn 2.5-3 years old and certainly by 4.

PMonkeyDishwasher said: Oh, and I can't believe nobody mentioned the only true FWF way to have kids: selling your sperm.

1. Sell your sperm
2. ???
2 (revised). Let someone else get pregnant and raise the kids
3. Profit!


http://wbztv.com/local/sperm.donor.lawsuit.2.1219701.html
Be very careful about that.

geo123 said: Nothing gets people riled up more, and with good reason I might add, than an unsolicited suggestion by a stranger that they are being bad parents. I know you weren't trying to say that but I think it would've been easy to interpret your statement that way...

That goes both ways.

It is so strange to me that stay-at-home parents I know regularly get 'the look' from non-stay-at-home-parents (ie: "What the ____ is wrong with you?"), as well as all sorts of nosy and downright rude comments when people find out that the kids aren't in daycare (or, even worse, are home-schooled). I guess in a lot of people's minds (particularly depending on where you live...) a woman's right to choose her career doesn't include the option of being a homemaker. Funny too, how going from a college educated 'career woman' to a stay-at-home-mom apparently sucks all of that education out of your brain and makes you an idiot, in the minds of some!

Back to the original topic...another idea, similar to what another poster said is, don't rush out to buy all equipment right away. You won't need a tub, a high chair, etc. for a while, so take your time to find a bargain (unless of course, folks want to get you one ASAP as a shower gift - FREE is always the FW way!). Also, then you aren't trying to find a place to store all of that stuff any longer than you have to!

I'm surprised no one has suggested selling naming rights to the child, by the way!

Some thoughts from personal involvement in the field and in response to topics brought up earlier:

1. Giving birth outside of a hospital is 99% safe. However, if you are in the unlucky 1%, the consequences are often catastrophic. No wrong or right, just pick your level of comfort.
2. C-sections are indeed at astronomical, unjustified rates in the US. As stated before, a primary driver is malpractice insanity. OB convenience, sadly, may also be a driver since studies show that C-section rates increase during evening and overnight hours.
3. Fetal monitoring will increase the odds of a C-section, for legal reasons. Benefits are debatable.
4. Induction at 41 weeks is commonplace. The risk of fetal demise or meconium aspiration increase significantly after 41 weeks and there is no added benefit for the fetus to "cook" longer.

And my advice for having kids the FW way:

Choose your hospital and care providers carefully. Choose the hospital with the most competent and experienced obstetricians/midwives, anesthesiologists and neonatal resuscitation teams. Sadly, mothers choose hospitals based on how fancy they are (private rooms, big screen TVs, good food) and care providers based on how "nice" they are. That private room won't bring you any comfort when your sick infant is getting emergently transported to another hospital because the one you picked was not equipped to care for him/her. And that nice OB you picked might not be the most competent under fire when you are bleeding out after delivery. Maximizing your odds of having a good outcome for mom and baby will bring financial benefits that you won't fully appreciate unless you have the misfortune of raising a child with developmental disabilities or as a single dad.

yeh i find it funny when you spend $4K on a tub; plus a nurse/whatever; go for the pain!! wtf omg c-section time- call 911

hospital bills++


induction is good because you get to pick the day usually; come in the morning; get set up in the room; put a movie on; pop her; get numbed out way in advance to ensure misplacement can be redone to have zero hotspots.

you could slip on the way to the tub and do more damage to the baby

L0thar said: PMonkeyDishwasher said: Oh, and I can't believe nobody mentioned the only true FWF way to have kids: selling your sperm.

1. Sell your sperm
2. ???
2 (revised). Let someone else get pregnant and raise the kids
3. Profit!


http://wbztv.com/local/sperm.donor.lawsuit.2.1219701.html
Be very careful about that.


Selling eggs is much more profitable than selling sperm. With the right contract in place, legal issues will not be a problem.

Breastfeed. Baby led weaning (google it, there's a book too), no need to ever buy baby food, or make it yourself. Baby eats what you eat when they are developmentally ready.

Co-sleep/bedshare. No need for a crib. You can only do this if breastfeeding.

Babywear. Save on strollers and expensive gadgets (we still have a stroller, but no need for fancy ones). Buy a good all-purpose carrier like an Ergo. Bonus is that your hands are free and you burn extra calories!

Cloth diaper. Saves on diaper ointments, wipes, etc... not to mention diapers. Our only diapering expenses for our second child (and hopefully third as well) is water and detergent.

Buy a restaurant-style high chair. They are about $35 brand new, and can be found used. They don't have trays, so baby sits right at the table with you. We prefer it this way, so our kids participate in family meal-time as soon as they can sit up entirely on their own. Even if they aren't eating food yet, they can play with baby utensils.

We also had a doula for my daughter's birth... which definitely reduced the chances she would be a c-section (the birth was a VBAC). $750 for a doula saved thousands in potential c-section costs and helped make the entire experience awesome.

also skip the epidural... just increases your c-section chances and can have some really bad implications on recovery (back pain, constant headaches), not to mention is bad for the baby.

bump

bump?



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