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uafgrad said:   esoterica said:   


Yep, read all of that. The only part that applies to me is "Amazon reserves the right to modify or cancel the offer at any time." But while almost all terms and conditions state something to that effect, that doesn't mean that clause is legally binding. Bait-and-switch laws always prevail, and reducing the number of applicable computers from ~537 to 40 is unequivocally bait-and-switch.


Eeerrr....yeah....I don't think so.

It's not a matter of opinion.

"What makes an advertisement deceptive?

"According to the FTC's Deception Policy Statement, an ad is deceptive if it contains a statement - or omits information - that:

"Is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances; and
"Is "material" - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product."

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus35-advertising-faqs-guide-small-business
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/ad-decept.htm

esoterica said:   uafgrad said:   esoterica said:   


Yep, read all of that. The only part that applies to me is "Amazon reserves the right to modify or cancel the offer at any time." But while almost all terms and conditions state something to that effect, that doesn't mean that clause is legally binding. Bait-and-switch laws always prevail, and reducing the number of applicable computers from ~537 to 40 is unequivocally bait-and-switch.


Eeerrr....yeah....I don't think so.

It's not a matter of opinion.

"What makes an advertisement deceptive?

"According to the FTC's Deception Policy Statement, an ad is deceptive if it contains a statement - or omits information - that:

"Is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances; and
"Is "material" - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product."

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus35-advertising-faqs-guide-small-business
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/ad-decept.htm


Well, if bait and switch laws always prevail (as you state) I would say go for it, and sue Amazon.

Let us know how that works for you.

esoterica said:   uafgrad said:   esoterica said:   


Yep, read all of that. The only part that applies to me is "Amazon reserves the right to modify or cancel the offer at any time." But while almost all terms and conditions state something to that effect, that doesn't mean that clause is legally binding. Bait-and-switch laws always prevail, and reducing the number of applicable computers from ~537 to 40 is unequivocally bait-and-switch.


Eeerrr....yeah....I don't think so.

It's not a matter of opinion.

"What makes an advertisement deceptive?

"According to the FTC's Deception Policy Statement, an ad is deceptive if it contains a statement - or omits information - that:

"Is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances; and
"Is "material" - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product."

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus35-advertising-faqs-guide-small-business
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/ad-decept.htm


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004HFS6Z0

Nowhere on that page or "ad" do I see any reference to this specific offer allowing you to select from 529 vs 40 laptops. In fact I don't even see any references to this specific offer at all. So if they did not advertise it, it can't really be considered bait and switch. Unless you owned a Kindle, you wouldn't even know about this offer other than frequenting websites other than Amazon that discuss them. If you already owned a Kindle, then you bought it without knowledge of this offer. If you bought the Kindle for this offer based on what you read on other websites, then Amazon didn't 'bait' you, those other websites did.

I'm not an attorney and I'm not happy with them changing the selection for the offer, but since the Kindle is an e-reader that happens to come with some offers, I think they are likely covered from bait-and-switch claims. It might be different if Kindle was sold as an offer producing device that happened to be able to read books. I could be wrong though. On the other hand, they certainly don't want any bad publicity surrounding the Kindle so if enough people complain, it could actually help.

/shrug I'm just glad I ordered my laptop over the weekend.

esoterica said:   uafgrad said:   esoterica said:   


Yep, read all of that. The only part that applies to me is "Amazon reserves the right to modify or cancel the offer at any time." But while almost all terms and conditions state something to that effect, that doesn't mean that clause is legally binding. Bait-and-switch laws always prevail, and reducing the number of applicable computers from ~537 to 40 is unequivocally bait-and-switch.


Eeerrr....yeah....I don't think so.

It's not a matter of opinion.

"What makes an advertisement deceptive?

"According to the FTC's Deception Policy Statement, an ad is deceptive if it contains a statement - or omits information - that:

"Is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances; and
"Is "material" - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product."

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus35-advertising-faqs-guide-small-business
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/ad-decept.htm


I'd be upset too if Amazon removed a laptop I wanted to purchase, but you're confused about bait-and-switch laws.

First, Amazon never advertised a specific laptop. The ads and e-mails I received from Amazon stated "Save 20% on Select
Laptops at Amazon.com". They're still fulfilling that portion of the advertisement. It's unfortunate that they've lowered the number of laptops on sale for 20%, but they never advertised the number of models or which specific models. There was no specific laptop they "baited" you with and "switched" a lesser laptop with.

While they didn't advertise a specific laptop, they did mention Apple's name in one of the ads I saw on the Kindle. I think that's one reason they still have the 2010 13" MacBook Air (aside from trying to clear all their stock for it).

Lastly, retailers are allowed to put in wording to let buyers know it's a limited quantity deal, such as "minimum 5 per store" or in Amazon's case "Offer good while supplies last."

With that said, I see a lot of people on SD complaining to CSRs over chat and they're doing price adjustments directly. You may need to have a Kindle Special Offer tied to your account for them to verify you have a legitimate code, though.

I placed my order on Sep 6th while the coupon was still valid on new macbook airs. My order is showing up as "not yet shipped", and the laptop is still out of stock. The delivery date is Aug 30-Sep 16th 2011. Can Amazon cancel the existing order?

bostonian32 said:   I placed my order on Sep 6th while the coupon was still valid on new macbook airs. My order is showing up as "not yet shipped", and the laptop is still out of stock. The delivery date is Aug 30-Sep 16th 2011. Can Amazon cancel the existing order?

They can, but they won't.

bostonian32 said:   I placed my order on Sep 6th while the coupon was still valid on new macbook airs. My order is showing up as "not yet shipped", and the laptop is still out of stock. The delivery date is Aug 30-Sep 16th 2011. Can Amazon cancel the existing order?

I've had Amazon cancel a laptop order before. They clearanced the 2007 Black MacBooks by several hundred since a new model was released. My delivery date went from May (it was April) to August. A few days later I received an e-mail saying they would have to cancel it since they were completely out of stock of the older models.

This situation may be different, though. I'm assuming you're buying a newer model laptop. I can't see them excusing it as being completely out of stock. On another forum, other users claimed they canceled previous laptop orders after a month and 2 weeks later the laptop came back in stock. An online chat or call remedied it, though.

Yes, I'm trying to get the newest model that was released in July. When I called they said they were out of stock waiting for Apple to deliver more.

So how do people know the future promos? Any ideas on when the 50% of groceries will come out?

New offers are out, I updated the quick summary.

And by the way, yes, you are reading that right: The $5 mp3 promo is simply Amazon giving you a free $5 to spend on digital albums.

How much do we love Amazon?

MontyBurnsFW said:   And by the way, yes, you are reading that right: The $5 mp3 promo is simply Amazon giving you a free $5 to spend on digital albums.

How much do we love Amazon?


Well, a little less since the laptop switcheroo.

Amazon must have lost millions on the 20% coupon...I've venture to say 70% of people used the coupon for a Macbook...which as we all know are never discounted 20 freakin percent.

No wonder they are changing the TOS...

coolbreeze said:   Amazon must have lost millions on the 20% coupon...I've venture to say 70% of people used the coupon for a Macbook...which as we all know are never discounted 20 freakin percent.

No wonder they are changing the TOS...


I doubt it is even close to 70%. I think a lot of people waited too long to use their code, and then were unable to use the code on a Macbook.

uafgrad said:   coolbreeze said:   Amazon must have lost millions on the 20% coupon...I've venture to say 70% of people used the coupon for a Macbook...which as we all know are never discounted 20 freakin percent.

No wonder they are changing the TOS...


I doubt it is even close to 70%. I think a lot of people waited too long to use their code, and then were unable to use the code on a Macbook.

I meant of the coupons used, 70% were for an Apple product. I think it's realistic, just based on anecdotal web OMG posts and traffic. I didn't see a single post lusting over an HP laptop @ a 20% discount...just sayin'.

coolbreeze said:   uafgrad said:   coolbreeze said:   Amazon must have lost millions on the 20% coupon...I've venture to say 70% of people used the coupon for a Macbook...which as we all know are never discounted 20 freakin percent.

No wonder they are changing the TOS...


I doubt it is even close to 70%. I think a lot of people waited too long to use their code, and then were unable to use the code on a Macbook.

I meant of the coupons used, 70% were for an Apple product. I think it's realistic, just based on anecdotal web OMG posts and traffic. I didn't see a single post lusting over an HP laptop @ a 20% discount...just sayin'.


Yeah, of the coupons used prior to the change I would say you are right. Or probably even higher in that case.

coolbreeze said:   Amazon must have lost millions on the 20% coupon...I've venture to say 70% of people used the coupon for a Macbook...which as we all know are never discounted 20 freakin percent.

No wonder they are changing the TOS...


I doubt they lost millions if by "lost" you mean they sold the Macbooks for less than they paid Apple to stock them. However, if you mean they lost millions in the sense that hundreds or perhaps thousands of people bought using the coupon that likely would have paid full price anyways, then you are probably right. They could have sold most of those Macbooks with no or only minimal further discounting.

However, I'm pretty sure their profit margins on most Macbooks are 20% or more. Look at Microcenter. Their prices on the new Macbook Pros are $200+ less than the MSRP or Amazon price (example Apple MacBook Pro 13.3" MC700LL/A has an MSRP of $1199, but Microcenter has been selling it for $999 for awhile now). They wouldn't set their regular price that low unless it was still profitable. The reason that most merchants don't discount Apple products significantly is that 1. Apple frowns on that and 2. most people will pay the non-discounted prices for Apple products, so they really don't need to discount. It's like giving away profits, which is basically what happened with this KSO coupon. I'm honestly not sure how Microcenter is getting away with such deep discounting of new Apple products. They have not similarly discounted the newest Macbook Airs which were released more recently.

So as of right, now, presuming you want to purchase one of the laptops on the "new" list, do you also need to have a kindle attached to your account for the code to work, or no? Does anyone know?

if you buy the cheapest macbook, applecare, and $500 in accessories then they might make 20% assuming they haven't marked all over the units off. the margin doesn't exist microcenter is doing a LOSS LEADER to get you in store then they sell you applecare $249-349 , keyboard $69, Trackpad $69, Extra charger $69, Adapter to hdmi $29 - etc. Trust me the employees might get 20-30% off once per year for one item(order). nobody else does its like 3-5% margin tops

rigor said:   if you buy the cheapest macbook, applecare, and $500 in accessories then they might make 20% assuming they haven't marked all over the units off. the margin doesn't exist microcenter is doing a LOSS LEADER to get you in store then they sell you applecare $249-349 , keyboard $69, Trackpad $69, Extra charger $69, Adapter to hdmi $29 - etc. Trust me the employees might get 20-30% off once per year for one item(order). nobody else does its like 3-5% margin tops

I'd agree with you if Microcenter were heavily advertising this price but they are not. Also this is not some short term promotion. They've had this price for months. Stores will rotate items that are loss leaders since after a couple weeks most folks who would've come in just for that deal have already done so. You also see longer term loss leader pricing when stores are trying to clear out older inventory but that doesn't apply here. Finally most stores will not use a product that will sell well on its own as a loss leader - new Apple products generally sell very well. Anyone out there work at one of the Apple resellers able to tell us what the markup is? I'm kind of curious now.

these deals stink lately. i'm returning my kindle if it doesn't live up to it's deal worthiness

rigor said:   these deals stink lately. i'm returning my kindle if it doesn't live up to it's deal worthiness

Maybe you should. You can always rebuy it.

Not 100%, but I think you can buy a Laptop off the current list of 40. I have a code attached to one of my accounts and I can see
the discount on any of those whether or not I have the Kindle registered to that account or not. Whether it would bounce me or Amazon would cancel
if I tried to complete the purchase off the deregistered address I can't say. I'm still hoping a CSR will eventually be able to allow me to
buy a unit off the old list when I can show them the Kindle is attached to the account -- my problem was I originally registered that unit and
got the code under my 2nd account so all the email addresses don't match. Worst case I'll end up returning the Kindle.

From reading other places I haven't heard off anybody not being allowed to purchase a unit off the Current list.

Sometimes Amazon drives me nuts. I just bought my DW some books for school last week, they arrived yesterday, as did the coupon for $25 off $100 in textbooks. Chatting with customer service and they tell me to return and re-buy with the coupon... so dumb that they'd rather spend more than have a system in place for this type of event.

I said I wouldn't do that just because I didn't want to waste the fuel/trees for boxes and deliveries... but it seems like they have no problem telling people to do so.

Stubtify said:   Sometimes Amazon drives me nuts. I just bought my DW some books for school last week, they arrived yesterday, as did the coupon for $25 off $100 in textbooks. Chatting with customer service and they tell me to return and re-buy with the coupon... so dumb that they'd rather spend more than have a system in place for this type of event.

I said I wouldn't do that just because I didn't want to waste the fuel/trees for boxes and deliveries... but it seems like they have no problem telling people to do so.


And then they ban you for doing too many returns....

I was planning to try out the free AI class at Stanford this Fall and was able to use the textbook coupon on the book for the course. Also, you get $5 in MP3 credit with textbook purchase. That will go well with the $5 MP3 credit from KSO. Having just caught with the latest discussion here, it looks like I should have ordered that MacBook before now.

Does anyone have the links to all the KSO deals? Say someone in trade thread has a code for sale, trade, or give away - how do I find the details and what is in the offer? Some of the folks make links, most do not.

Seems like the Wiki of this thread would be the perfect place to keep the links...

Thanks

uafgrad said:   Stubtify said:   Sometimes Amazon drives me nuts. I just bought my DW some books for school last week, they arrived yesterday, as did the coupon for $25 off $100 in textbooks. Chatting with customer service and they tell me to return and re-buy with the coupon... so dumb that they'd rather spend more than have a system in place for this type of event.

I said I wouldn't do that just because I didn't want to waste the fuel/trees for boxes and deliveries... but it seems like they have no problem telling people to do so.


And then they ban you for doing too many returns....

Wait, can/do they ban people for returning too many things??

coolbreeze said:   Wait, can/do they ban people for returning too many things??

If the return is not their fault then you have to pay to return it, so I am not sure why they would care that much. Now, if you make up some bogus reason for the return ("it arrived too late"?) to get them to pay for the return shipping, then re-ordered the same stuff again - I can see them getting tired of that...

coolbreeze said:   uafgrad said:   Stubtify said:   Sometimes Amazon drives me nuts. I just bought my DW some books for school last week, they arrived yesterday, as did the coupon for $25 off $100 in textbooks. Chatting with customer service and they tell me to return and re-buy with the coupon... so dumb that they'd rather spend more than have a system in place for this type of event.

I said I wouldn't do that just because I didn't want to waste the fuel/trees for boxes and deliveries... but it seems like they have no problem telling people to do so.


And then they ban you for doing too many returns....

Wait, can/do they ban people for returning too many things??


Absolutely. They have done so before, and will do so again.

A few examples:

ONE

TWO

THREE

FOUR

Dwynne said:   coolbreeze said:   Wait, can/do they ban people for returning too many things??

If the return is not their fault then you have to pay to return it, so I am not sure why they would care that much. Now, if you make up some bogus reason for the return ("it arrived too late"?) to get them to pay for the return shipping, then re-ordered the same stuff again - I can see them getting tired of that...


If only it were that simple. If you google the mass banning from a few years ago, many customers had few returns and most claim they always paid for return shipping.

Remember, if they ban you your Kindle becomes worthless.

Save $5 on a $10 purchase
Save $40 when you spend $100 on watches at Endless.com

Is the $40/$100 off watches any good? Never heard of Endless.com. They seem to have a good selection, but they also seem to be missing some standard "casual" watches; guess, Fossil, etc. Haven't heard of MANY of the brands listed, even though they're listed as $99 down from $500+.

Will have to price some watches to see if I can find a good piece at ~$100 before coupon...then check corresponding prices.

uafgrad said:   coolbreeze said:   uafgrad said:   Stubtify said:   Sometimes Amazon drives me nuts. I just bought my DW some books for school last week, they arrived yesterday, as did the coupon for $25 off $100 in textbooks. Chatting with customer service and they tell me to return and re-buy with the coupon... so dumb that they'd rather spend more than have a system in place for this type of event.

I said I wouldn't do that just because I didn't want to waste the fuel/trees for boxes and deliveries... but it seems like they have no problem telling people to do so.


And then they ban you for doing too many returns....

Wait, can/do they ban people for returning too many things??


Absolutely. They have done so before, and will do so again.

A few examples:

ONE

TWO

THREE

FOUR

Dwynne said:   coolbreeze said:   Wait, can/do they ban people for returning too many things??

If the return is not their fault then you have to pay to return it, so I am not sure why they would care that much. Now, if you make up some bogus reason for the return ("it arrived too late"?) to get them to pay for the return shipping, then re-ordered the same stuff again - I can see them getting tired of that...


If only it were that simple. If you google the mass banning from a few years ago, many customers had few returns and most claim they always paid for return shipping.

Remember, if they ban you your Kindle becomes worthless.

Holy crap. That sends a chill up my spine. While I don't consider my returns excessive, who am I to say that when Amazon can just ban you without notice.

I have sent back some expensive stuff ($600 phones, $700 cameras, etc) but my purchases FARRR outweigh returns. In fact, my returns would have been easily tolerated by local B&M retailers, so I'd be quite pissed off at AMAZN if they ever banned me. I have spent over $30,000 at Amazon and returned a few things. I have spent maybe $4,000 at BB and have returned much more in proportion than Amazon.

Scary, as they aren't forthcoming about what buy/return dollar ratio flags your account for banning. Sheesh.

coolbreeze said:   
Holy crap. That sends a chill up my spine. While I don't consider my returns excessive, who am I to say that when Amazon can just ban you without notice.

I have sent back some expensive stuff ($600 phones, $700 cameras, etc) but my purchases FARRR outweigh returns. In fact, my returns would have been easily tolerated by local B&M retailers, so I'd be quite pissed off at AMAZN if they ever banned me. I have spent over $30,000 at Amazon and returned a few things. I have spent maybe $4,000 at BB and have returned much more in proportion than Amazon.

Scary, as they aren't forthcoming about what buy/return dollar ratio flags your account for banning. Sheesh.


There is a long thread about this on SD where people discussed what got them banned (I just checked this thread, and while it still shows the 100+ pages, all comments have been removed by SD. You can find the link to the thread HERE). It does not seem purchase-return ratio was even consistent. Some claimed they only returned 2 things in their life time, and had made $20K in purchases. I remember it even hit the news when Amazon did this last. Amazon seems to be doing this in waves.

Seems like we're getting pretty far into the weeds debating a hypothetical, but: My overall customer service experience at Amazon has been better than any retailer I've ever dealt with. Yes, surpassing even Costco, which is great for no-questions-asked returns of ANYTHING but not a particular standout when it comes to solving more complicated problems. (Granted, "just return it" is a pretty satisfactory solution for about 90% of issues.)

The reports of people getting banned from Amazon are troubling, though don't at all line up with my experience. I've been placing frequent orders with Amazon for more than a decade, and have never had a single customer service experience I'd describe as less than fantastic. It's hard to think about changing my buying habits based on what seem to be isolated incidents involving others. (And before I catch hell for saying "isolated incidents," I think you'd agree that as a percentage of overall transactions on Amazon.com, these bannings must represent a very, very tiny number.)

That said, if reading on an online forum about somebody getting banned from shopping at Amazon makes you not want to buy a Kindle, well, don't buy a Kindle I guess. By the way: Since exchanging my "regular" 3G Kindle for a 3G Kindle with Special Offers, and taking advantage of several of the offers for things I would have purchased anyway, I am currently "up" just shy of $400 in 60 days.

If you want to see what you've purchased from (and returned to) Amazon over the years, you can order a report here:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/b2b/reports

It is limited to the past 10 years. Can be rather eye-opening for a frequent shopper like me.

MontyBurnsFW said:   Seems like we're getting pretty far into the weeds debating a hypothetical... That said, if reading on an online forum about somebody getting banned from shopping at Amazon makes you not want to buy a Kindle, well, don't buy a Kindle I guess. Agreed. And I suggest that we get back and stay on topic. Thanks!

OK back on topic.

Yesterday I added a laptop from the "big list", put in the code and it wouldn't work. Called Amazon CSR and he said hmmm, wouldn't work for him either, so he put a 20% credit back on my CC account. That's a definite YMMV.

$130 for the laptop (plus $25 free MP3 credit)
$10 for toys
$25 for textbooks
$5 off $10 haven't used yet

Not bad for a 3G I got for free with Amazon CC points (and gave to my wife for a b-day present).

.........the gift that keeps giving.

116sloppyjoe116 said:   MontyBurnsFW said:   Seems like we're getting pretty far into the weeds debating a hypothetical... That said, if reading on an online forum about somebody getting banned from shopping at Amazon makes you not want to buy a Kindle, well, don't buy a Kindle I guess. Agreed. And I suggest that we get back and stay on topic. Thanks!

You don't think this is relevant?!

uafgrad said:   116sloppyjoe116 said:   MontyBurnsFW said:   Seems like we're getting pretty far into the weeds debating a hypothetical... That said, if reading on an online forum about somebody getting banned from shopping at Amazon makes you not want to buy a Kindle, well, don't buy a Kindle I guess. Agreed. And I suggest that we get back and stay on topic. Thanks!
You don't think this is relevant?!
To KSO Latest Promotions and deals? Specifically, no.

Now, if you had been banned because you traded in your Kindle for a KSO or applied too many KSO coupons, then that would be relevant. What happened a few years ago and may happen again if we misbehave is a helpful warning and reminder to not abuse the excellent service that Amazon provides, and I thank you for that, but it is not specifically "on topic." It is interesting at least to know that Amaz0n has limits and is still a company first and foremost. For this thread, it is helpful as a reminder to not abuse their coupon policy. Unfortunately, no one cares about that policy (see all the posts on e bay) and I foresee many new restrictions (like the laptop code) and lesser deals in our future. I meant no offense in my request to get back on topic; I still prefer the nature of this thread be one of discussing the codes, what you bought with them, etc.

Well, then you and I will have to agree to disagree. I think it is incredibly relevant information in a thread where exchanging/returning kindles is mentioned frequently. Especially when it is apparent that some participate in that behavior frequently and/or participate in the selling of codes. With that behavior comes some risk. You may minimalize it all you want, or stick your head in the sand, but it is a risk that IMHO people should be aware of.

I apologize for highjacking your thread. I misinterpreted the purpose of it.



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