nascarfrk said: Why list that the application fits my car without disclosing that you may have problems after installation? I stand firmly on the fact that they are JUNK !
As someone who can and does handle his own vehicle maintenance and who has been building high performance race engines for about 25 years, I stand firmly that they are not. In fact, I've had great luck with them with notable performance gains across the board. Frankly, I can't understand why you are so torqued up about some plugs. It's an easy job. It's even easier to identify if they cause a problem and the fix takes all of 15 minutes if they do. How that ends up costing $220 is beyond me (granted NGK is a good plug but their IR plugs are total overkill for 95% of those buying them). Sorry you had a bad experience - it can happen with Auto, Champion, NGK, Bosch, etc.
As is the case for any aftermarket part - do your own research, read other reviews and hit the forums for your specific vehicle. One experience (good or bad) does not tell the story.
nascarfrk
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Feb. 9, 2012 @ 7:30p
rainmakrman said: nascarfrk said: Why list that the application fits my car without disclosing that you may have problems after installation? I stand firmly on the fact that they are JUNK !
As someone who can and does handle his own vehicle maintenance and who has been building high performance race engines for about 25 years, I stand firmly that they are not. In fact, I've had great luck with them with notable performance gains across the board. Frankly, I can't understand why you are so torqued up about some plugs. It's an easy job. It's even easier to identify if they cause a problem and the fix takes all of 15 minutes if they do. How that ends up costing $220 is beyond me (granted NGK is a good plug but their IR plugs are total overkill for 95% of those buying them). Sorry you had a bad experience - it can happen with Auto, Champion, NGK, Bosch, etc.
As is the case for any aftermarket part - do your own research, read other reviews and hit the forums for your specific vehicle. One experience (good or bad) does not tell the story.Why don't you do your research buddy? My 2009 Nissan Quest calls for 2.7 hrs labor to Remove and Replace. You can do it in 15 minutes? You should work for Nissan. Or perhaps you don't own a newer vehicle with spark plugs you can't see or access? Talk is cheap, but if it's your money I'm sure your attitude would change. Dink Bosch Avoid!
thc
Senior Member
posted: Feb. 9, 2012 @ 8:47p
Some engines are quite sensitive to spark plugs and really deserve exact OEM plugs. The LM7 in my GM truck is one example. If you have a vehicle that takes a lot of time for a spark plug change (like nascarfrk's Nissan minivan), you are well-advised to stick with OEM so you won't have to worry about it. If not it's still a good idea, but experimentation won't be too awful.
Rockauto usually has Bosch Platinum (not Plus, though) for 75 cents a piece and my vehicles aren't too laborious so I bought a few sets last spring.
Agreed rockauto is great for most parts - good call there - though when I checked earlier this week they were low on inventory and the shipping was brutal for the particular warehouse they wanted to ship from (didn't matter as they only had 4 in stock).
nascarfrk -- As for the labor quote on the Nissan - it's laughable - I'll leave it at that. I know it's not a 15 minute job in that case - nor is it 3 hours - not even close. I'll just say 15 minutes on most big blocks - a bit longer on small blocks - and longer on anything "compact". Newer motors are often more difficult and require removal of wheels, plenums, etc. - but I can pull the whole damn motor out in just about anything in well under 3 hours - and have many times over. I agree with one thing for sure - "you" shouldn't buy these plugs.
icecow
Thrifty Member
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 3:06a
I might get some negative for trying to watch your back, that's fine.
There is a sort of viral rumour (I call it a rumour because I am not in position to know what is true) that Bosch sparkplugs are junk. A car-centeric friend told me Bosch sparkplugs were junk about a year ago. I was suprised to hear that comment. I always equated German car parts to quality, and Bosch has a name for itself. Didn't take that opinion for granted, but saw this deal and did some googles. There diffinately veins of people on the net that claim the plugs dont always fire. Someone said they are platnum plated instead of solid platnum (like the used to be).
I read enough to make me scared, but I sorta still want to buy them. 3-4 off each plug? Should I just stick to original plan to buy them and change them out 2/3 their expected life? I'm confused.
Hope this isnt FUD I'm spreading.
If you do buy them I suggest you fill up your tank and go one tank and figure out your current gas milage BEFORE you change in these new plugs. Then do the same after. If your gas milage drops you know at least one of the sparks isnt firing and the rumours are true.
One guy said he bought a new set of wires and other stuff ('$1000 worth of stuff') he didnt need because his gas milage was low. It ended up--he claims--the gas milage was caused by a Bosch plug that wasnt firing.
thc
Senior Member
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 5:53a
Platinum plated vs. solid platinum wouldn't affect fuel economy or power or anything like that, just service life of the plugs.
One tank is not enough to establish a fuel economy baseline. You need a long-term average before and after from similar conditions (weather, route, traffic, driving style, etc) or your data is worthless for this purpose.
Spending $1000 on parts without diagnosing the problem first is dumb.
As I said in my last post: On vehicles with easy access, feel free to try non-OEM plugs. On vehicles where it's a pain in the butt just stick with OEM. You should be able to find them cheap on Rockauto or eBay. One thing I forgot to mention if you want to experiment: Don't buy gimmick plugs. Multi-electrode plugs, plugs claiming to amplify your spark intensity though some device inside them, etc...all gimmicks. If you're not buying OEM, buy OEM-equivalent from another brand.
freakinout
Nerdy Member
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 6:15a
icecow said:
There is a sort of viral rumour (I call it a rumour because I am not in position to know what is true) that Bosch sparkplugs are junk.
That's probably the exact reason that they are offering a $3 rebate on $4 spark plugs. The best way to get people over the rumors is to give them an incentive to try them first hand....
momoman
Senior Member - 3K
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 9:14a
bought 8 platinum plugs (only needed 6) for $2.99 ea at the autozone b&m. bought 8 iridium plugs for $5.99 ea at Amazon. will try them in my nissan maxima and toyota sequoia. thanks OP and noapathy for posting the rebate links.
BigKahunaFSU
Loyal Member
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 9:34a
it only lets me put 1 plug in my cart and doesn't let me update the amount.
nsdp
Dismembered Member
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 12:40p
Who ever is spreading the rumors must be pretty dumb. The rules in F1 make those cars far and away the toughest on equipment. The 2.4L V-8s aren't as tightly wound as the V-10 3.0 liter cars from 3 years ago. Rules are you must run at least 4 races including practice, qualifying and race without an engine/transmission change. Changing sparkplugs counts as an engine change and a 10 position penalty on the starting grid on the driver's next start. The V-10s had no rev limiters and would turn 19600rpm routinely and make 925hp out of 3liters, no turbo, no supercharger, natural aspiration only, for 2400 miles without being touched. Plugs used are typically Bosch. So they aren't junk plugs. Toyota and Honda ran NGK plugs when they were non competitive.
As for adjustments the +2 and +4 are generally not adjustable: BOSCH Part # 4302 More Info PLATINUM+2 (Rebate/Promotion Available! See Promotions & Rebates Page for Details.) Do not gap. Gap is not adjustable.
A look at the picture shows you why they are not regapable. 4 Yttium electrodes per plug make that very difficult and given Yttrium's lack of ductility you will most likely crack or break off an electrode. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=272226 I don't run them because I am using an MSD unit on my mustang.
Given Nascarfrk's description of the problem I suspect that someone gave him or he ordered truck plugs for his van based on wrong information on the computer lookup. If you don't use the manufacturer's site your results are no better than the quality of the person setting up the site. Garbage in garbage out.
nascarfrk said: Why don't you do your research buddy? My 2009 Nissan Quest calls for 2.7 hrs labor to Remove and Replace.
OK, research done. AutoMD repair estimate calculator-- I assumed you have the SE V6 since it's the most expensive model, and so presumably "harder" to work on (probably not). I also assumed you live in Beverly Hills, because it's probably expensive there, and because 90210 is an easy ZIP to remember. According to AutoMD, this is a 1.5 hour shop job. See attached screenshot.
KYBOSH
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 2:41p
nascarfrk said: My 2009 Nissan Quest ....
'Nuff said.
KYBOSH
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 2:45p
To receive your rebate you must purchase any qualifying Bosch Spark Plug at a participating retailer between 8/1/11 and 12/31/12. Requests must be postmarked by 1/31/13.
This seems to be a VERY long running rebate program! Over a year...
Does anyone know what the 'limit per household' on these are?
lyeinyoureye
Senior Member
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 3:02p
rainmakrman said: It's an easy job. It's even easier to identify if they cause a problem and the fix takes all of 15 minutes if they do. How that ends up costing $220 is beyond me (granted NGK is a good plug but their IR plugs are total overkill for 95% of those buying them). Sorry you had a bad experience - it can happen with Auto, Champion, NGK, Bosch, etc.
As is the case for any aftermarket part - do your own research, read other reviews and hit the forums for your specific vehicle. One experience (good or bad) does not tell the story. Yes and no. You're right that every situation is unique, but spark plug installations can be a royal pain in the ass for transverse sixes (and technically eights, although those are rare). I can pull the entire engine/trans in my old rabbit faster than I can change the plugs in my V6 Camry.
bpd67
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 3:13p
lyeinyoureye said: rainmakrman said: It's an easy job. It's even easier to identify if they cause a problem and the fix takes all of 15 minutes if they do. How that ends up costing $220 is beyond me (granted NGK is a good plug but their IR plugs are total overkill for 95% of those buying them). Sorry you had a bad experience - it can happen with Auto, Champion, NGK, Bosch, etc.
As is the case for any aftermarket part - do your own research, read other reviews and hit the forums for your specific vehicle. One experience (good or bad) does not tell the story. Yes and no. You're right that every situation is unique, but spark plug installations can be a royal pain in the ass for transverse sixes (and technically eights, although those are rare). I can pull the entire engine/trans in my old rabbit faster than I can change the plugs in my V6 Camry.
I know the feeling, my 03 Escape requires the upper intake to come off to get to the back 3 plugs and coil packs. Labor intensive.
marayatano
Silly Member
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 3:16p
icecow said: I might get some negative for trying to watch your back, that's fine.
There is a sort of viral rumour (I call it a rumour because I am not in position to know what is true) that Bosch sparkplugs are junk. A car-centeric friend told me Bosch sparkplugs were junk about a year ago. I was suprised to hear that comment. I always equated German car parts to quality, and Bosch has a name for itself. Didn't take that opinion for granted, but saw this deal and did some googles. There diffinately veins of people on the net that claim the plugs dont always fire. Someone said they are platnum plated instead of solid platnum (like the used to be).
Well, I can tell you this for sure, the German manuafactures for AUDI and VW, come with NGK as OEM equipment. They chose NGK instead of Bosch.
On the car forums for VW and Audi, all the members have said Bosch plugs sux.
I run NGK myself and I drive German.
freakinout
Nerdy Member
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 3:26p
KYBOSH said:
Does anyone know what the 'limit per household' on these are?
From the rebate form : Maximum rebate $24.00 per name, address, and household
RIF
caeteris
Member
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 4:03p
nsdp said: Who ever is spreading the rumors must be pretty dumb. The rules in F1 make those cars far and away the toughest on equipment. The 2.4L V-8s aren't as tightly wound as the V-10 3.0 liter cars from 3 years ago. Rules are you must run at least 4 races including practice, qualifying and race without an engine/transmission change. Changing sparkplugs counts as an engine change and a 10 position penalty on the starting grid on the driver's next start. The V-10s had no rev limiters and would turn 19600rpm routinely and make 925hp out of 3liters, no turbo, no supercharger, natural aspiration only, for 2400 miles without being touched. Plugs used are typically Bosch. So they aren't junk plugs. Toyota and Honda ran NGK plugs when they were non competitive.
I've come to realize it's almost pointless to weigh in on car repair threads. Still, your logic here of comparing an F1 engine to a production car engine is remarkable. Further, you're confusing your history of F1 and the various timelines. When Toyota was still in F1, the 4 engine rule wasn't it place. But even so, changing spark plugs don't incur a grid penalty, contrary to your assertion.
5.20 Replacing engine parts: The parts in lists A and B below may be changed without incurring a penalty under Article 28.4 of the F1 Sporting Regulations. If changing any of these parts involves breaking a seal this may be done but must carried out under FIA supervision. The parts in List B may only be replaced by identical homologated parts in accordance with Appendix 4 of the F1 Sporting Regulations. List A - Clutch - ........... - Spark plugs
To attribute success in F1 to spark plugs is quite a stretch.
But the point isn't whether Bosch are junk or not. It's whether they work well in certain applications. As it turns out, some engines are rather sensitive to the plugs used. Toyotas in particular, and most Japanese engines for the matter, don't run as well on Bosch. For whatever reason, Toyota engines are partial to NGK and Denso plugs. When Bosch or other brands are used those engines tend to misfire, even if ever so slightly.
For do it yourselfers, while it's good to save money where ever possible, spark plugs are not an area where it makes a lot of sense. Even if you can change spark plugs in 15 minutes, every time you change one, there's always the possibility, however slight, of misthreading the plug, overtorquing it, or having something fall into the cylinder. And while that applies to whatever plug you put in, by using a non-oem plug, there's the greater likelihood of having to change the plugs soon after if the engine doesn't run right.
Personally, with all the stuff I have to take off to get to my plugs, and given the lifespan of plugs, the difference in price between the recommended plugs for my Supra and aftermarket plugs isn't worth the savings. I too once tried Bosch plugs, and right away could tell the difference. I wouldn't call them junk. Simply that they don't work well in Japanese engines.
nsdp
Dismembered Member
posted: Feb. 10, 2012 @ 8:32p
It would help if you looked at the sporting rules for the V-10 engines not the current rules for the V-8. By the way rule 5.20 was added in 2009. Don't know whether or not you can read but the rules you cited refer to the V-8 class of engines only. Did you just run google and quit when you got the answer you wanted? Very incomplete search and you definitely not a F1 fan or you would know NOT to use the current seasons regulations when discussing V-10 engines. There are different rules if you decided to run a V-10 which several teams did in 2009. The V-10 engine race rules started in 2005 and you had to run back to back races. Juan Pablo Montoya, Jensen Button and Takumo Sato(two penalties) all received penalties for engine changes after one race. Sato's was for parts changes the second time (cracked plugs during practice at the Japanese GP, NGK's at that)not a complete engine change. You also had to make the tires last the entire race at least until Raikkonen destroyed his car at the Nurburgring. 2006 was the same rule. 2007 allowed a new engine each weekend. 2008 returned to the two race rule but with no penalty for the first blown up engine. 2009 began the defacto 3 race rule since each team was limited to a maximum of 8(testing engines counted against the car total) and now 8 engines per car(this year preseason test engines are no longer counted against the car total).
My point is that F1 can't be won by running junk parts. If Ferrari, McLaren, Renault and the majority of the teams run Bosch they won't be junk. Shumacher ran Bosch in every race he ran but his first at Jordan. That is 91 victories.
marayatano, VW runs NGKs. Audi(Auto Union-NSU) is owned by VW since 1964 and 1969 respectively so they are one company like Ford has Lincoln. What do Benz, Porsche and MAN all use? Bosch.
Bosch isn't my first choice for my Tundra, NGK is, but the Bosch plugs are the best I have found for for the Ford 302 block with 14mm plugs. If I had 18,mm plugs which are a different head completely and require a different heat range I would probably use Champions. They don't make an Autolite BRF32 any more.
OkieAgie
New Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 5:48a
nascarfrk said: respdoc said: nascarfrk said: So, I go to dealer and they tell me you can't use these Bosch plugs for this vehicle application. ... JUNKY BOSCH PLUGS !!!
So..because you didn't do your own research to find out beforehand if these type of plugs worked in your car...somehow the whole brand is junky ? Great logic.CORRECT! Why list that the application fits my car without disclosing that you may have problems after installation? I stand firmly on the fact that they are JUNK !
OOPS - post mistake, I thought I deleted it.
brotherhpj
Senior Member - 4K
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 7:07a
This thread has turned into such a debate, that if possible, when you install these "junk" plugs into your car/truck please report back here with your experience. Allot of FW's are interested in your findings and to clear the air. Truthful responses only.
thc
Senior Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 7:14a
I put Bosch Platinum plugs (not "Plus" though) in my 1980 Buick in August. They have been working fine for 10,000 miles. Not that experience with a 32 year old GM might be very meaningful to most users...
GeorgeT
Senior Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 7:59a
thc said: I put Bosch Platinum plugs (not "Plus" though) in my 1980 Buick in August. They have been working fine for 10,000 miles. Not that experience with a 32 year old GM might be very meaningful to most users...
Actually it is meaningful. I drive a 96 Buick wagon with 95,000 miles on the original plugs. I want to replace them myself this spring. It's a transverse six, and let me tell you, it is almost impossible to get to the 3 in the back. I just want to make sure I get the right plugs so I only do this once.
Since the originals lasted so long, I may just get a set of OEM
thc
Senior Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 9:16a
GeorgeT said: Actually it is meaningful. I drive a 96 Buick wagon with 95,000 miles on the original plugs. I want to replace them myself this spring. It's a transverse six, and let me tell you, it is almost impossible to get to the 3 in the back. I just want to make sure I get the right plugs so I only do this once.
Since the originals lasted so long, I may just get a set of OEM
My 1980 has a vacuum-advance distributor and a carburetor. Your 1996 has computer-controlled ignition and fuel injection. That usually means it will handle changes better but sometimes that can mean being more sensitive. Replace with OEM/exactly the same as what you take out.
thc
Senior Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 9:21a
Also, since they've been in there undisturbed for 95,000 miles and 16 years they're going to be seized. You want to avoid, at all costs, stripping the threads...don't just crank them when they are difficult. There's some decent advice here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oUsFFkH1io Don't forget to put anti-seize on the threads of the new ones, to hopefully help a little in the year 2028 when you do them again. Hey, if my Buick is a good daily driver after 32 years, why shouldn't yours be?
merkurfan
Senior Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 9:29a
It's funny all this back and forth about the plugs.. Here is my take on them. I am a 25 year in the field ASE Master technician. I have worked on anything from a Yugo to a Jaguar. I have seen all sorts of spark plug related problems caused by many brands. I will say that more often than not. It was a bosch plug. I have even seen the plug come apart and wreck a engine. Mainly it was just misfires they would cause from time to time.
Would I put them in either of my GM's? Nope. But I tend to be a "put what came out back in it" kind of guy.
If the customer wants um, I'd install Bocsh. However if they ask me I'd tell them to replace the plugs with the brand/type that came out.
ponson00
Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 11:12a
Does anyone know what the OEM brand plugs are that are recommended for a 2004 Pontiac Grand Am 4 cyl?
thc
Senior Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 11:47a
ponson00 said: Does anyone know what the OEM brand plugs are that are recommended for a 2004 Pontiac Grand Am 4 cyl? GM/AC Delco.
brotherhpj said: This thread has turned into such a debate, that if possible, when you install these "junk" plugs into your car/truck please report back here with your experience. Allot of FW's are interested in your findings and to clear the air. Truthful responses only.
My experience is a bit dated, but Bosch plugs did not work correctly in the following
1984 - Honda Accord 4cyl - the plug gap actually welded shut and stalled the engine
1993 Nissan Pathfinder V6 - bosch platinum plugs fouled twice in the period of one month causing random engine stall and extremely rough running, auto parts store gave me warranty replacements each time, switched to Denso, no more problems - I actually traded this car in on the camry listed below because this engine NEVER ran right again after using bosch plugs (stalling, rough running, and really low MPG)
1995 Toyota Camry V6 - bosch platinum plugs lost me about 5-6 MPG over the OEM plugs that had 60k miles on them, and caused the engine to run rough and be hard to start, replaced with NGK and all the problems went away, engine ran perfectly for another 60k miles. These plugs take a couple hours to swap out, so that was a pain.
You might ask why I kept trying Bosch plugs?? Well, they were cheap and locally available to me at an auto parts store (parts store guys recommended them) that was 5 minutes from my house and they listed an application for all my vehicles in their parts guide. I simply thought that it couldn't be the plugs, they are bosch and they are new and they looked physically identical to ones they were replacing.
The issue was, I just didn't know any better.
I finally had a trusted mechanic set me straight and have been using Denso or NKG is all my Japanese vehicles ever since (which usually means I have to get them online) and have never had another plug related problem.
I ASSUME THE SAME HOLDS TRUE TODAY, my experience is a little dated because I won't touch another bosch plug. I mainly buy Toyotas and have seen similar stories posted time and time again on Toyota forums.
I have seen some say that Toyotas just have weak ignitions and that may be the case, so as usual, buy the right tool for the job.
I would imagine a 'race' built engine would have a high output ignition, so it makes some sense that high performance cars might have less issue with a bosch plug compared to a common grocery getter.
ponson00
Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 1:56p
thc:
thanks for the info
sbbrowne
New Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 2:01p
I've used Bosch Platinum Plus 2 plugs on my Subarus for years - presently a 2007 Forester. I get better mileage and fewer stalls in low gear. You aren't supposed to try adjusting the gap, but I clean my used plugs in a hot lye solution, which practically brings them back to new.
lithiumli
New Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 4:15p
i installed platinum +2 in my 96 carmy in oct or novemeber (4 cilinder) and i drove it from toronto all the way down to florida in mid december (still in florida) and i've probably put about 12-15 thousand KM not miles on it and my car seems to running fine.
E4300
Senior Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 5:44p
I've worked on motorcycles, cars, boats, and rocket engines for over 36 years. Had formal training in mechanical, electrical, materials engineering. I've always purchased the original Bosch platinum with a single ground electrode and have never encountered any mechanical issue with Hondas, Mazdas, Nissans, and Toyotas. The dual and quad electrode designs may introduce combustion problem with some cars due to instable heat range (larger mass protruding into the combustion chamber).
If the engine calls for copper or platinum plugs, then go with the single-ground electrode Bosch with the correct heat range. One may need to go a step hotter or colder, depending on driving habit. Bosch has added a V-notch to the single-ground electrode in recent years for marketing purpose. This design does not wear as well as the older electrode without the V-notch.
I normally replace these single-electrode Bosch platinum plugs around 50K miles. People will gripe about electrical conductivity between copper and platinum center electrode. The truth is that the air gap resistance is infinitely higher than that of the center electrode.
JesseLivermore
Tired Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 6:05p
I agree with anyone and everyone that says that these plugs are a risk.
I'm not saying you'll inevitably have a problem, and I'm not sure of the rate of problems statistically speaking, but these are bound to be less reliable than OEM or other decent aftermarket plugs (like NGK).
I will also agree that iridium or even copper plugs are better applications than platinum plugs for most motors. Platinum is not as durable or conductive. I think there's a lot of marketing hype with the claims on platinum spark plugs, but worse yet, many motors were not engineered around the specifications that platinum spark plugs bring to the table.
merkurfan
Senior Member
posted: Feb. 11, 2012 @ 8:43p
brotherhpj said: brotherhpj said: This thread has turned into such a debate, that if possible, when you install these "junk" plugs into your car/truck please report back here with your experience. Allot of FW's are interested in your findings and to clear the air. Truthful responses only.
1997 Ford Escort 2.0 single cam. Electrode came off and bounced around in chamber. Wrecked engine. Valves still intact no other debris in cylinder.
1999 Geo Tracker. 4 cylinder. New out of box. Truck would not start. Put old plugs back in. Ran fine.
2002 GMC express (still in my drive way. I drive it daily) came with them in it. Van never got advertised MPG until it flooded and I replaced the plugs. 5 MPG difference between the Bosch plugs and the proper AC delco plugs. (13 MPG to 18 MPG. 15/18 EPA)
With these 3 examples I could also offer up 100's that never came back with an issue while I worked at Pepboys. Bosch plugs where the cheapest plugs they stocked so it's what you got if you asked for a "tune up".
larrymoencurly
Why I oughta...
posted: Feb. 12, 2012 @ 5:43a
nascarfrk said: freakinout said: nascarfrk said: These spark plugs are JUNK !!! Caused "Check Engine" Light on my car to turn on.More likely that an improper installation caused your CEL to come on. Local mechanics have a lot to gain by trying to scare you into thinking you have poor decision making abilities when it comes to doing your own work. Think about it, he charged you $220 to install $20 worth of plugs. Was a good day for him...No, actually I had purchased these plugs (correct application Bosch plugs) and had them installed by another Auto facility. I was replacing the spark plugs for maintenance only. The misfires didn't happen until a few days later. Went back and was told that they just installed my spark plugs as requested. So, I go to dealer and they tell me you can't use these Bosch plugs for this vehicle application. So ended up having new NGK iridium spark plugs installed by dealer for $220. The NGK plugs are $18.00 each X six = $108.00 So, did I get taken advantage of ....... i don't think so. just learned lesson to stay away from Bosch Spark Plugs...... even if they're free! BTW: They saved the Bosch plugs they removed and I returned them to the parts store for refund. They still looked BRAND NEW with no visible cracks... JUNKY BOSCH PLUGS !!!I've heard of some Hondas running OK with new plugs for the first 100-200 miles, but then the CEL comes on, and the solution is to install NGK plugs. And some VWs made in the 1990s came from the factory with silver core Bosch plugs, and substituting anything else would make the engine run funny, even Bosch copper cores or Plus platinums, but one person said NGK copper cores worked fine. Also I had some Denso plugs run a bit cold in a Dodge Dart, and Denso specified different plugs for the car versus the substitutes for the Champion plugs recommended by Dodge.
larrymoencurly
Why I oughta...
posted: Feb. 12, 2012 @ 5:57a
labboypro said: nsdp said: Most plugs for newer generation cars come pregapped to manufacturer's spec and cannot be regapped. Cannot? What you mean is, "they are 'pre-gapped' for a specific application." All it takes is dropping a spark plug, even in the box, a few inches above the workbench, and the electrode can bend, thus altering the gap. Anyone changing their own spark plugs needs to "invest" in a $0.99 spark plug gap gauge, and check all plugs before installing them. Any mechanic shop not doing this as a matter of course should be fired.Don't the plastic or cardboard tubes over the plug tips protect the gaps even if a box is dropped? Because I used to measure variations in the gaps of AC, Champion and either Autolite or Motorcraft plugs, but every Bosch, Denso, and NGK of a given part number measured exactly the same. Also one company, maybe Bosch or Autolite, told me to not measure the gaps of platinums because that could contaminate the electrodes.
larrymoencurly
Why I oughta...
posted: Feb. 12, 2012 @ 6:20a
E4300 said: Bosch has added a V-notch to the single-ground electrode in recent years for marketing purpose. This design does not wear as well as the older electrode without the V-notch.I remember copper core Densos having a U-channel in the ground electrode and NGKs having a V-notch in the center electrode, back when Bosch used neither.
wh0ligan
Cranky Member
posted: Feb. 12, 2012 @ 9:24a
Auto technician here and Fatwalleter here. I can't tell you how many no starts I have corrected by replacing Bosch Plats of any kind with either Bosch Super or the correct plug reccomended by the manufacturer. Nascarfrk is correct, these plugs are nothing but problems. Sometimes free costs too much.
wh0ligan
Cranky Member
posted: Feb. 12, 2012 @ 9:36a
merkurfan said: brotherhpj said: brotherhpj said:
With these 3 examples I could also offer up 100's that never came back with an issue while I worked at Pepboys. Bosch plugs where the cheapest plugs they stocked so it's what you got if you asked for a "tune up".
I too used to work for Pepboys. And while I removed many Bosch Plats to correct drive ability problems the Bosch Super plugs rarely gave us problems unless a vehicle required platinum plugs.
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