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clearanceman said:   Klingsor said:   Like everyone else here is saying. I've been using Win 8 beta for a few months now. It doesn't do anything special except make you computer feel slightly less usable, and slightly more like a phone or tablet. Don't know why the 2nd poster got so much red. It's true, every second or 3rd version of Windows is a dud, and Win 8 is that dud. Vista totally sucked, and Win 7 is great. Don't bother with the upgrade unless you've got one of those duds. i.e. Vista, ME or 98. And I know XP is decent, but it is getting a bit long in the tooth now, and it would make sense to modernize from XP.

Vista doesn't suck anymore. It did when it came out, but point taken. Some are better than others right from day one.


Doesn't suck *as much* maybe, but it's still a dog compared to Win 7 and even XP. The last machine in our extended family that had it still installed was sold last month. Good riddance.

us said:   cptbarkey189 said:   and that confirms to what i already suspected, that Windows 8 is essentially Windows Millennium is to Windows98.

edit: in short, Windows 8 is garbage.


i was saying the same thing in another thread but nobody liked that comment. But I used the XP vs. Vista instead of ME vs. 98. Which is pretty much the same thing.

If you want to say that WinME tested features of the WinXP user interace. I buy that. XP to Vista was not that. Win7 to Vista is more of a Win98 to Win95 -- same underlying tech with a new interface. Win8 is Vista/Win7 with a touch interface and the metro (from the Zune) user interface. And it is being released for more platforms -- kind of Microsoft's version of ICS.

For anyone that does any sort of realtime A/V work - Win8 changed the way interrupts are routed to the kernel, and thus has HORRIBLE DPC LATENCY numbers. Seemingly, regardless of hardware or drivers. Someone reported than their Win7 desktop had DPC latency numbers in the 90us range, but Win8 is in the 1000us range. Some people report audio crackling on Win8, because of this.

Win8 is MS's half-baked way of trying to force a tablet UI on everyone, even if they are primarily a mouse/keyboard user. The kludge is so bad, it is definitely going to back-fire on MS on the desktop. The Win8 tablets might be decent though.

gaijin4life said:   clearanceman said:   Tempting to go from XP to windows 8. However, is it ready for prime time? MS beta is horrible and even their first releases are usually bad. I remember when Vista came out, it was horrendous. Now, it's decent, I stuck with it long enough for them to work the bugs out.

The only reason they're giving you the "free upgrade" to Windows Media Center add-on is that Windows 8 has NO support for DVDs. They took it OUT. You have to buy an add on (MS or others) to play a DVD on Win 8. The single biggest retarded move. This is NOT a desktop OS, and is definitely a Win ME redux.

My FAVORITE Win 8 video showing a real user LOST in it because of the crap kludge of a UI:

http://youtu.be/v4boTbv9_nU

There will be a LOT of this after release. It's a terrible version of Windows.


Favorite part of the video:

Dad: "Now how do I go back?"
Kid: "YOU figure it out..."

lol, he reminds me of McLovin

OK, OP. So yer sayin' Mickeysoft will upgrade any computer of any color for $39.99, in by nine out by five, no ups, no extras? Yes, that offer does sound familiar. With quality to match Earl's famous work, as well I'm sure.

Such a deal!!

It would be fun to see Gates or Ballmer on TV hawking this offering.

This is basically Family Pack pricing, but *if* it's only available through the MS store as a download, it won't be marked down by retailers like the win7 packs were [are if you can still find 'em], & they don't have the cost of making discs, packaging, distribution etc... Also can have a firm cut off date. Microsoft +3 -- Users -3 -- assuming they sell enough copies, they win.

The MS blog also mentioned OEM licenses but not pricing [unless I missed it], saying it will officially allow installing to a VM [Virtual Machine]. While loads of people used/use the OEM versions for VMs, I don't think the licenses said you could do that -- might be a hint that MS is changing their licensing agreements again. Have to wait & see if they've tightened up their activation process -- as it is now win7 upgrade licenses will work on fresh as well as upgrade installs, which is the generally preferred way to do it.

RE: win8 itself, my theory is MS is committed to Windows phones/tablets -> they need a well populated app store to talk manufacturers into making them & carriers into offering them -> to get those apps they need to convince developers that there will be this huge market -> to do that they're forcing Metro on Windows users starting with 8. Otherwise the Start Menu could have stayed put -- doesn't interfere with Metro once you switch to the desktop. Remember, instead of giving a reason *Why* they axed the Start Menu, MS just tells us [again & again] why they felt they could get away with it.

That said, it's one click to get to the desktop now, & I'm sure there will be ways to either disable Metro or go directly to the desktop as we get closer to RTM, or maybe soon afterward. You already have your choice of third party start menu apps. Media handling is changed -- too early to say if for the better -- & win8 has better memory mgmt, making it slightly faster for some tasks. Casual users might like Metro if it means they can play the same games as on their cell or tablet. May or may not turn out to be another ME.

MISTERCHEAP said:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtjdHaMeiiQ

LONG LIVE EARL!!!


At Earl Scheib we will paint any car, any color for $29.95, leave the windows open and we will do the interior!

Windows 8 is nothing more than an attempt to sell Windows Phones due to the tile tie-in design. It's neat, but pretty much requires a touch-screen, which of course hardly any computers have.

It's a big gamble for Microsoft.

coolbreeze said:   Windows 8 is nothing more than an attempt to sell Windows Phones due to the tile tie-in design. It's neat, but pretty much requires a touch-screen, which of course hardly any computers have.

It's a big gamble for Microsoft.


The gamble is already failing. Nokia's Windows 8 phones have bombed and they laid of a TON of their workforce by putting all their eggs in MS' "tiled" basket. The full win8 launch will fare no better. Huge backlash coming.

I'm a big Microsoft fan, I sell Microsoft products: cloud services, servers, microsoft dynamics products, etc. I downloaded Windows 8 the moment it was available to me, and ran it on my home PC for months.

Windows 8 will fail, hard. It is a wonderful UI for a touchscreen, but I can't imagine a worse interface for desktops if my life depended on it. It has no chance.. Not even at 39.99.

Consumers will buy a new pc with it and hate it instantly. Windows tablets will fail because people will equate the crap desktop experience with the tablets. There's no way any IT person will ever allow it to be deployed so businesses won't use it. I can't imagine what they were thinking.

the better part of this deal is that the Win8 comes with downgrade rights, so you can up your XP to Win8Pro for $39 and then downgrade it to Win7Pro if you think that is superior (which it probably is), so you can get Win7Pro for $39 which is unheard of.

on the other news, rumor is RIM is getting Win8 to help it bury its blackberry for good... i guess no such thing as learning from nokia. windows on a mobile device, i was scared as fkcd when i heard they put windows OS on Ford cars (the Sync?), i stay away from any Ford car in traffic these days, don't really want to find that whole new meaning of crash.

MISTERCHEAP said:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtjdHaMeiiQ

LONG LIVE EARL!!!


Problem, Media Center was going to be and will eventually be an "Up". No ups no extras!!

I have checked the link. Thanks for sharing information about windows 8 upgrade.

gaijin4life said:   coolbreeze said:   Windows 8 is nothing more than an attempt to sell Windows Phones due to the tile tie-in design. It's neat, but pretty much requires a touch-screen, which of course hardly any computers have.

It's a big gamble for Microsoft.


The gamble is already failing. Nokia's Windows 8 phones have bombed and they laid of a TON of their workforce by putting all their eggs in MS' "tiled" basket. The full win8 launch will fare no better. Huge backlash coming.
Um.. what "nokia's windows 8 phone"? There is no such thing, at least not yet.

Yuyak said:   gaijin4life said:   coolbreeze said:   Windows 8 is nothing more than an attempt to sell Windows Phones due to the tile tie-in design. It's neat, but pretty much requires a touch-screen, which of course hardly any computers have.

It's a big gamble for Microsoft.


The gamble is already failing. Nokia's Windows 8 phones have bombed and they laid of a TON of their workforce by putting all their eggs in MS' "tiled" basket. The full win8 launch will fare no better. Huge backlash coming.
Um.. what "nokia's windows 8 phone"? There is no such thing, at least not yet.


Okay, splitting hairs - specifically, the Lumia windows phones that have the tiled Metro-type UI that Windows 8 has. They are not selling well at all. AT&T doesn't even want to talk about sales for the 900 and it just launched not too long ago. Bomba major.

Where's the deal here?

The deal is being offered to everyone at the same price. There's no coupon code, no limited supply to get in on.

This isn't a hot deal, just normal price.

I'm running Windows 7 to drive my television and I'm thinking the metro interface might be groovy for that. Thanks for the tip on the cheap upgrade!

the point of all this on MS part (for better or worse) is convergence. xbox metro phones and win8 all converge to the same UI. This is the first time ever that the separate groups with MS could agree on anything and with the introduction of surface tablets the windows os needed some sort of overhaul for a touch interface. tablet pcs in 4+ generations and never caught on bec the interface is klunky and requires a pen in most cases.

Win8 on a conventional desktop doesnt seem to get u much but on a fully functional surface tablet u get the benefits of a full pc spec in a tablet form factor. Seems interesting to me to be able to have a tablet that u can use as a full pc and undock and take all your apps with you in a touch screen form factor. They needed a UI overhaul of some sort to accommodate this.

It remains to be seen if people really want a full pc that is a tablet or they just want a tablet as a secondary device to supplement their cloud experiences. i find it interesting that with all the focus on cloud even from MS themselves that they are still pushing a full desktop os in a tablet, seems contradictive in a way.

I believe i read somewhere that apple is converging the OS between devices soon as well

SSi said:   ez said:   Without the "start" button, Windows 8 does not make sense for a desktop. As far as I can tell, it's really Windows 7 with some features optimized for a laptop or pad with a touch screen. Pass for desktops. A maybe for the right laptop or pad.

Think of it as a desktop + dashboard. You could still get the classic "start button" interface.

I thought I read it somewhere that that will be gone in the final release.

but apple will make it work AND people will want it


JamesD1343 said:   the point of all this on MS part (for better or worse) is convergence. xbox metro phones and win8 all converge to the same UI. This is the first time ever that the separate groups with MS could agree on anything and with the introduction of surface tablets the windows os needed some sort of overhaul for a touch interface. tablet pcs in 4+ generations and never caught on bec the interface is klunky and requires a pen in most cases.

Win8 on a conventional desktop doesnt seem to get u much but on a fully functional surface tablet u get the benefits of a full pc spec in a tablet form factor. Seems interesting to me to be able to have a tablet that u can use as a full pc and undock and take all your apps with you in a touch screen form factor. They needed a UI overhaul of some sort to accommodate this.

It remains to be seen if people really want a full pc that is a tablet or they just want a tablet as a secondary device to supplement their cloud experiences. i find it interesting that with all the focus on cloud even from MS themselves that they are still pushing a full desktop os in a tablet, seems contradictive in a way.

I believe i read somewhere that apple is converging the OS between devices soon as well

SteelRing said:   the better part of this deal is that the Win8 comes with downgrade rights, so you can up your XP to Win8Pro for $39 and then downgrade it to Win7Pro if you think that is superior (which it probably is), so you can get Win7Pro for $39 which is unheard of....

Having set through the 3 hour MS OEM Partner conference call last month without actually falling asleep I can tell you this is not true. Only full OEM versions of Windows 8 will come with downgrade rights and even then only for a limited time after the official Windows 8 product release. This should be no shock as it is exactly as MS did with Vista when it bombed. MS Allowed you to legally downgrade to XP for the first 12 months after the release of Vista. However, that downgrade program has been dead for years. For FRP ie Retail and Upgrade versions of Windows 8, like this deal offers, you are stuck with Windows 8 with no downgrade rights. Also Windows 8 Pro equates to Windows 7 Home Premium not Windows 7 Professional. Microsoft's renaming of the traditional Windows versions with the release of Windows 8 is misleading to say the least and yet another reason why this release will fail with consumers. With the release of Windows 8 Microsoft elminiates a named "Home" version of their OS and instead calls what used to be the Home Premium version in Windows 7 the Pro version in Windows 8. What is now known as the Pro or version with domain support is reverting back to being called the Business version in Windows 8 as it was originally in Vista. It seems MS did not learn from their Vista mistakes as they seem to be going all out to duplicate the blunders that caused Vista to become such an epic fail.

Yeah, the Start Menu will be gone with the released version. That being said, I am sure somebody will come up with a solution that is reasonably close. Of course, you could just put your own shortcuts on the desktop side. So to me this Start Menu issue is overblown.

I tried 8 on a virtual machine with very meager resources. Yet, 8 installed very quickly and its performance is surprisingly good. Also to me, a touch screen is not even that important in the RC. Maybe newer apps will use it better, but to me using a mouse wheel was fine.

Not sure why people hate tiles so much. It is just a large icon for apps that could also have live content. You could disable the live part or simply uninstall the app(s) if it bothers you that much.

Personally, all I care about is it being fast, stable, and compatible. If 8 can do it, then I see no problems with the interface being a barrier. It is not as though I liked the Start Menu in 7, but I am using that OS. And it is not like Vista where almost everybody had to upgrade or get a new computer to make it useable.

Ubuntu Linux FTW.

I can say this - fresh installs Win 7 vs Win 8, no hardware changes - My FX4100 box was running prime95 about 18.9% faster on Win 8 than Win 7. I haven't tried it on any of my other boxes, as they are in what I refer to as a production environment, and I'm not one for taking chances.

That being said, I have heard from others as well that Win 8 seems to take advantage of Bulldozer's architecture more effectively than win 7 (yes, patched)

gaijin4life said:   Yuyak said:   gaijin4life said:   coolbreeze said:   Windows 8 is nothing more than an attempt to sell Windows Phones due to the tile tie-in design. It's neat, but pretty much requires a touch-screen, which of course hardly any computers have.

It's a big gamble for Microsoft.


The gamble is already failing. Nokia's Windows 8 phones have bombed and they laid of a TON of their workforce by putting all their eggs in MS' "tiled" basket. The full win8 launch will fare no better. Huge backlash coming.
Um.. what "nokia's windows 8 phone"? There is no such thing, at least not yet.


Okay, splitting hairs - specifically, the Lumia windows phones that have the tiled Metro-type UI that Windows 8 has. They are not selling well at all. AT&T doesn't even want to talk about sales for the 900 and it just launched not too long ago. Bomba major.

1) What are you basing your claim that it's "failing" if AT&T hasn't released sales numbers? If you google "Lumia Sales" most are very positive:
http://allthingsd.com/20120509/u-s-sales-are-bright-spot-for-nok...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57416269-94/nokia-sees-strong-l...
http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-lumia-800-shows-fastest-growing-sal...
2) I think it's much more than "splitting hairs" - if that's the case, why are all the Lumia owners complaining that MS hasn't outlined a clear path for upgrade from Win7.5 to Win8? Xbox360 OS also have live tiles - does that mean it's also running Win8?

I am running Win7 pro. I wish it had Bitlocker so I have to decide if I keep using Truecrypt, or spend $40 and see what else I get besides Bitlocker.

I spent a few minutes on the developer version of Win8, the metro interface was useless without a touch screen, but you could turn it off. Back then it was a registry edit, not sure if it is different with the consumer preview. I may have to download that an take another look.

IIRC they stopped the registry setting in the consumer preview, and i didn't try in the release preview. There are third party solutions to getting a classic start menu back, but that's really dumb. The Tiled interface and full screen apps simply do not work on a desktop, full stop.

Take someone who has never seen windows 8 and have them start a metro app. Then have them start another one. Good luck with that experiment. Even technological advanced people will take a couple minutes to figure out how to exit a damn program and do something else. That is why I will say windows 8 will fail.

I seriously doubt the OEMs will even bother installing Windows 8 on new PC's for fear of returns. Businesses will skip windows 8. They have to offer it at 39.99 to get somoene to buy it, and the truth is people will buy it, hate it, uninstall it, then hate the tablets with it because it has that windows that is impossible to use.

I've been running Windows 8 preview for about 2 weeks on a separate partition. I was REALLY skeptical at first but I gotta say, I'm impressed. Yes it takes some getting used to but it appears faster than Windows 7 and has some pretty cool features. $40 for Pro is a no-brainer. Thanks OP.

gummydmilo said:   I am running Win7 pro. I wish it had Bitlocker so I have to decide if I keep using Truecrypt, or spend $40 and see what else I get besides Bitlocker.

I spent a few minutes on the developer version of Win8, the metro interface was useless without a touch screen, but you could turn it off. Back then it was a registry edit, not sure if it is different with the consumer preview. I may have to download that an take another look.
THIS! I was impressed with Win8 on how fast it was even without an SSD, but could not stand the metro interface. It certainly makes a lot sense on mobile touch devices (phones/tablets/etc), but not on a laptop where you'd want to do any real work and certainly not on a desktop. I'm a bit skeptical but at $40, I might give it another try if the metro interface can be disabled.

I'll upgrade my old XP and Vista licenses. Not my Win 7 licenses.

psuJC said:   I'm a big Microsoft fan, I sell Microsoft products: cloud services, servers, microsoft dynamics products, etc. I downloaded Windows 8 the moment it was available to me, and ran it on my home PC for months.

Windows 8 will fail, hard. It is a wonderful UI for a touchscreen, but I can't imagine a worse interface for desktops if my life depended on it. It has no chance.. Not even at 39.99.

Consumers will buy a new pc with it and hate it instantly. Windows tablets will fail because people will equate the crap desktop experience with the tablets. There's no way any IT person will ever allow it to be deployed so businesses won't use it. I can't imagine what they were thinking.


Dynamics AX here. Totally agree that I don't want a touch screen OS on my desktop. I'm ultra-heavy keyboard user. I'm pissed whenever I have to touch the mouse...this OS would not rest well with my productivity.

Al3xK said:   psuJC said:   I'm a big Microsoft fan, I sell Microsoft products: cloud services, servers, microsoft dynamics products, etc. I downloaded Windows 8 the moment it was available to me, and ran it on my home PC for months.

Windows 8 will fail, hard. It is a wonderful UI for a touchscreen, but I can't imagine a worse interface for desktops if my life depended on it. It has no chance.. Not even at 39.99.

Consumers will buy a new pc with it and hate it instantly. Windows tablets will fail because people will equate the crap desktop experience with the tablets. There's no way any IT person will ever allow it to be deployed so businesses won't use it. I can't imagine what they were thinking.


Dynamics AX here. Totally agree that I don't want a touch screen OS on my desktop. I'm ultra-heavy keyboard user. I'm pissed whenever I have to touch the mouse...this OS would not rest well with my productivity.
I'm a heavy keyboard user, too. It's nice being able to just start typing the program I want, and the tiles that match what I'm typing are displayed (with the closest match already selected for me to simply hit enter). It's different, but I like that I don't have to hit the windows key to bring up the start menu (which sometimes takes a little while to load) before I can start typing.

gaijin4life said:   clearanceman said:   Tempting to go from XP to windows 8. However, is it ready for prime time? MS beta is horrible and even their first releases are usually bad. I remember when Vista came out, it was horrendous. Now, it's decent, I stuck with it long enough for them to work the bugs out.

The only reason they're giving you the "free upgrade" to Windows Media Center add-on is that Windows 8 has NO support for DVDs. They took it OUT. You have to buy an add on (MS or others) to play a DVD on Win 8. The single biggest retarded move. This is NOT a desktop OS, and is definitely a Win ME redux.

My FAVORITE Win 8 video showing a real user LOST in it because of the crap kludge of a UI:

http://youtu.be/v4boTbv9_nU

There will be a LOT of this after release. It's a terrible version of Windows.


0:35 Dad: "Now how do I go back?"
0:37 Son: "You figure it out"
0:55 Dad: "We might be here all day if I'm trying to figure this out"
2:10 Dad: "There's no... there's no start menu..."
2:19 Son: "Welcome to Windows 8!"


Yuyak said:   1) What are you basing your claim that it's "failing" if AT&T hasn't released sales numbers? If you google "Lumia Sales" most are very positive:
In month 1 AT&T was happy to talk about how it "met their expectations" (what were they?), and yet three months in, they don't want to talk about it in any meaningful way at ALL and would rather change the subject. They were more than happy to blab about iphone sales blazing for YEARS, and they shut up about the Lumia sales in 3 months? Very clear it's bombed. Don't believe me, fine. You'll see.

Yuyak said:   2) I think it's much more than "splitting hairs" - if that's the case, why are all the Lumia owners complaining that MS hasn't outlined a clear path for upgrade from Win7.5 to Win8? Xbox360 OS also have live tiles - does that mean it's also running Win8?

Because the Lumia owners have a sinking feeling that they are going to be abandoned on a half-step phone version of Win8, which they will be. There's no incentive to carry on when the party's over in a matter of months.

gaijin4life said:   Yuyak said:   1) What are you basing your claim that it's "failing" if AT&T hasn't released sales numbers? If you google "Lumia Sales" most are very positive:
In month 1 AT&T was happy to talk about how it "met their expectations" (what were they?), and yet three months in, they don't want to talk about it in any meaningful way at ALL and would rather change the subject. They were more than happy to blab about iphone sales blazing for YEARS, and they shut up about the Lumia sales in 3 months? Very clear it's bombed. Don't believe me, fine. You'll see.
So it WAS just conjecture on your part then. Glad we got that cleared up. You can believe what you want, but the limited data available seems to indicate otherwise. Despite the annoucment by MS that you won't be able to upgrade from WP7.5 to WP8, Lumia 900 is STILL in the Top10 best selling phone on Amazon right now.

delete

I'd love to upgrade my XP machine to Windows 7. Any chance of getting an Earl Schieb deal on that?

SteelRing said:   the better part of this deal is that the Win8 comes with downgrade rights, so you can up your XP to Win8Pro for $39 and then downgrade it to Win7Pro if you think that is superior (which it probably is), so you can get Win7Pro for $39 which is unheard of.

on the other news, rumor is RIM is getting Win8 to help it bury its blackberry for good... i guess no such thing as learning from nokia. windows on a mobile device, i was scared as fkcd when i heard they put windows OS on Ford cars (the Sync?), i stay away from any Ford car in traffic these days, don't really want to find that whole new meaning of crash.


Where have you heard that you get downgrade rights with this offer? I seriously doubt that consumer Win8 upgrades will be entitled to downgrade rights.

There's no way Microsoft will allow a (consumer) XP Home OEM SKU to get insta-downgrade rights to Win7 Pro for $39.

delzy said:   Ubuntu Linux FTW.

I don't know the Unity interface seems as popular with Ubuntu users as Metro so far has been with Windows users. I run a mix of Windows and *buntu/Debian/Mint at home and I have dropped Ubuntu as I upgrade machines because of Unity. Though I will say with Linux at least I can choose my poision (i.e., there are plenty of distros and desktop enviornments). That said for many folks and purposes Linux is not a subtitute for Windows.

How soon do you think MS will convert Metro to look like the Win7 UI out of the box on on-touchscreen devices?



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