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SinglePapa said:   Post was "cheap alaskan cruise". Not just you - everyone missed it, because the usual suspects REDDED it out of sight. instead of "working it" with a buddy travel agent AND GOING $399 pp. for 14 days!! That was the cheapest they'd ever gone on cruise, in good season; but they preferred to proudly poop the FW party instead. Here: the 4-nite from Galveston in lowest of seasons is GREEN all the way. I guess some FWers are proud to pay retailOriginal post:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/travel-discussion/1198120/?start...

I notice there are some sailings out of New York in October. Since you are on the East Coast, any comment on those?
http://content.princess.com/pcyield/?wzBmNZ9wG57HpU6Pm5oP9chwfC2...

Talking about the kids program, we actually experienced the best kids program on Costa (no, our ship did not sink). That Costa ship was the first non-Princess ship we were on. On Princess, kids spent most of their time in kids club, playing video games. That Costa kids club did not have any video game console. Costa was so cheap, I thought. Then one day, I was sitting near the bar on the main deck, I saw a squad of kids dashing across, leading by my then 7-year-old son. I was like !@#$%^&? Then I saw two crew members following them (two Italian girls BTW). They were doing treasure hunt. On that 7-day cruise, crew members took the kids everywhere in the ship (I know many adult passengers do not like that, but kids were having fun.)

They had a pirates party with a man dressed as Pirate Captain with eye patch and etc. That man was the real Captain of our ship.

I don't see good deals. Good were only Alaska June/July. If someone can post the updated page, that would be nice
aarzi said:   SinglePapa said:   Post was "cheap alaskan cruise". Not just you - everyone missed it, because the usual suspects REDDED it out of sight. instead of "working it" with a buddy travel agent AND GOING $399 pp. for 14 days!! That was the cheapest they'd ever gone on cruise, in good season; but they preferred to proudly poop the FW party instead. Here: the 4-nite from Galveston in lowest of seasons is GREEN all the way. I guess some FWers are proud to pay retailOriginal post:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/travel-discussion/1198120/?start...

I notice there are some sailings out of New York in October. Since you are on the East Coast, any comment on those?
http://content.princess.com/pcyield/?wzBmNZ9wG57HpU6Pm5oP9chwfC2...

The second link has future dates as well....

yes, but that's same bulletin I provided 4 months ago. We need to see current bulletin: my impression is prices get reduced on agents' bulletin, as sailing date draws closer

Well, since you are the one posted last time, I guess the ball is in your court.

I'm not subscriber, I came across the first one by luck - and posted it for FWs to be aware of inside pricing. Get your T.A. to subscribe (free), and please post the new one

While we normally prefer other cruise lines, we have done Carnival out of Galveston a couple of times - including the Magic earlier this year. I understand what one of the previous posters said about it being larger, but the four of us who went came home with a whole new feeling about Carnival. The ship was beautiful, we never felt crowded, and the service was great.

she was 21 when i left galveston

can't understand what people post in this topic any more...

So again, can we get off PAYING RETAIL? Can someone please point their Travel Agent to subscribe to cruiselines' bulletins - and we go from that pricing point!

Bump for cruise deals...

My family (2 adult, 2 kids) are going on a 7 day cruise the week after Thanksgiving on the Carnival Magic out of Galveston. Ports are MoBay Jamaica, Grand Cayman, and one in Mexico (can't remember which city). Base rate was about $315 per person for an interior cabin. We upgraded to a high, middle ocean view and all together it came in less than $2000.

Considering that most vacations start with $1000 in airfare, $150 for a rental car, and $400/week for hotels, we almost broke even without considering the difference in food, entertainment, childcare, etc.


Now if I could just find a discount on the parking or shuttle. I live 30 minutes away and cringe at the thought of paying $50 to park my car in one of the cruise parking lots for a week.

ok, so u r now challenged with $50 part of $2000 bill...
Your situation, however, is rare: 1) reside by Galveston; 2) vacation in the lowest-rate week.

I'm talking about paying INSIDER price in high-season, out of popular ports!!

bj2757 said:   While we normally prefer other cruise lines, we have done Carnival out of Galveston a couple of times - including the Magic earlier this year. I understand what one of the previous posters said about it being larger, but the four of us who went came home with a whole new feeling about Carnival. The ship was beautiful, we never felt crowded, and the service was great.
As I metioned, it's nothing too bad, and some people probably don't mind the crowds, but we didn't care for it and the crowd wasn't just my imagination. It's also possible your ship wasn't near capacity.
It's easy to look at the Dream class's number of staterooms vs. the ships gross tons and see how it could be overcrowded, compared to those stats for other ships. For example, I've been on the Carnival Dream (same as Magic), which holds 3,652 passengers and is 130,000 GT = 35.6 GT/pax, and felt crowded to us, and I've been on RCI's Voyager of the Seas, which holds 3,138 passengers and is 137,276 GT = 43.7 GT/pax, and was much less crowded than the Dream. And the Triumph holds 2,758 passengers and is 101,509 GT = 36.8 GT/pax, which on my cruise was also less crowded than the Dream. The Carnival Conquest holds 2,974 passengers and is 110,000 GT = 36.99 GT/pax.

https://www.google.com/search?q=carnival+dream+overcrowded
https://www.google.com/search?q=carnival+magic+overcrowded
https://www.google.com/search?q=carnival+breeze+overcrowded


FYI, many people want to go on RCI's Oasis class (Oasis and Allure) since they're the largest ships, but many people end up saying they're overcrowded, and way too large to have to walk from place to place (and expensive). The Oasis total passenger (not counting crew) capacity is 6264 and is 225,282 GT = 35.96 GT/pax. And I know it has been on record as having cruised with 6,168 passengers.


And yes, we've had great dining room service with Carnival.

SinglePapa said:   ok, so u r now challenged with $50 part of $2000 bill...
Your situation, however, is rare: 1) reside by Galveston; 2) vacation in the lowest-rate week.

I'm talking about paying INSIDER price in high-season, out of popular ports!!


It just feels like a waste to pay $50 to park 30 minutes from home for a week. I have the same issue parking at the airport... I hate to do it, but usually it's a better option than finding someone to rearrange their day around my dropoff/pickup

Living near the port definitely kills my thoughts of cruising out of other ports, with the exception of New Orleans. Every other port comes with a $1000 expense to transport the family to the cruise location.

Is taxi a better choice?

dealsearch said:   Is taxi a better choice?

Taxi's/shuttles are 35-40 each way.

There's a commuter bus that would almost get the job done for about $2 per person each way, but my cruise leaves and returns on Sundays and the commuter bus schedules are horrible on weekends.

Thanks for the suggestion, I think the answer is to pay for parking and not let that kill the excitement about the trip

The closer you get to the cruise, if it's not a sell out, the better your prices. You will find Resident's Rates and Senior Rates (55 or older) and these are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the standard published rates, even lower than past guest rates. I'm cruising on Halloween, and I got my balcony upgraded to a Spa Balcony cabin for a lesser price than I paid for a lesser balcony.
I always recommend using a travel agent, because sometimes, you can't easily find these lower rates on the cruiseline's website. Just be wary of clueless agents. lol

delzy said:   Does it come with a personalized dose of legionaires diseases, garnished with a smattering of norovirus and ecoli contamination? I'll never understand how anyone can enjoy their time on these prison ships.

I know you are jk, my 7 trips have been illness free, except for the 'brown bottle flu' and hangover/

mychaluva said:   Now if I could just find a discount on the parking or shuttle. I live 30 minutes away and cringe at the thought of paying $50 to park my car in one of the cruise parking lots for a week.Seriously? You cringe at having to pay $50 to park for a week at the pier? Try $19 a night at Cape Liberty in Bayonne, NJ. Get someone to drive you and pick you up if you can. Or try to find a cab that is cheaper (unlikely). Or suck it up and pay what I think is a very reasonable parking rate.
mychaluva said:   There's a commuter bus that would almost get the job done for about $2 per person each way, but my cruise leaves and returns on Sundays and the commuter bus schedules are horrible on weekends.Yes, nothing makes a vacation fun like dragging your luggage to the pier (and back) on a bus.

Slickone said:   bj2757 said:   While we normally prefer other cruise lines, we have done Carnival out of Galveston a couple of times - including the Magic earlier this year. I understand what one of the previous posters said about it being larger, but the four of us who went came home with a whole new feeling about Carnival. The ship was beautiful, we never felt crowded, and the service was great.
As I metioned, it's nothing too bad, and some people probably don't mind the crowds, but we didn't care for it and the crowd wasn't just my imagination. It's also possible your ship wasn't near capacity.
It's easy to look at the Dream class's number of staterooms vs. the ships gross tons and see how it could be overcrowded, compared to those stats for other ships. For example, I've been on the Carnival Dream (same as Magic), which holds 3,652 passengers and is 130,000 GT = 35.6 GT/pax, and felt crowded to us, and I've been on RCI's Voyager of the Seas, which holds 3,138 passengers and is 137,276 GT = 43.7 GT/pax, and was much less crowded than the Dream. And the Triumph holds 2,758 passengers and is 101,509 GT = 36.8 GT/pax, which on my cruise was also less crowded than the Dream. The Carnival Conquest holds 2,974 passengers and is 110,000 GT = 36.99 GT/pax.

https://www.google.com/search?q=carnival+dream+overcrowded
https://www.google.com/search?q=carnival+magic+overcrowded
https://www.google.com/search?q=carnival+breeze+overcrowded





FYI, many people want to go on RCI's Oasis class (Oasis and Allure) since they're the largest ships, but many people end up saying they're overcrowded, and way too large to have to walk from place to place (and expensive). The Oasis total passenger (not counting crew) capacity is 6264 and is 225,282 GT = 35.96 GT/pax. And I know it has been on record as having cruised with 6,168 passengers.


And yes, we've had great dining room service with Carnival.


I've been on 5 cruises on the Crystal Symphony and I guess by this sort of GT/pax it must be pretty good! http://cruiseweb.com/CRYSTAL-SYMPHONY.HTM - 54 gt per pax at max, and usually they are 2/3 full so more like 70 GT/pax. I know I've been out reading on the fantail before and spent several hours without seeing anybody.

From my experience, the lowest price is around the pay-in-full time. It is the last chance people can cancel without penalty. You will see many cabins be freed by travel agents and individuals. With two kids in school, we can only travel in high seasons. Almost all ships we sailed were full.

Also, log in to your account on cruise line’s web site. Sometimes you may see special price just for you. The travel agent may not see that unless they plug in your past passenger number. Our next cruise will be with Princess in Christmas. We paid less than half of their current “sale” price.

Agr8RN said:   The closer you get to the cruise, if it's not a sell out, the better your prices.
That may have been your experience, but in general, that's not true. It depends on the cruise line, ship, port of embarkation, ports of call, time of year, occupancy, economy, etc. The prices also fluctuate up and down just like airlines do. On at least one cruise we booked just a month or so before the cruise date, we hesitated to book, and the price had gone up a couple times in a few days. On the last cruise, we booked through Carnival's Early Saver, and the price did go up a few times but also dropped once or twice to below our purchase price, so we got refunded back in onboard credit. This is what I would recommend.

bluegreenturtle said:   Slickone said:   bj2757 said:   While we normally prefer other cruise lines, we have done Carnival out of Galveston a couple of times - including the Magic earlier this year. I understand what one of the previous posters said about it being larger, but the four of us who went came home with a whole new feeling about Carnival. The ship was beautiful, we never felt crowded, and the service was great.
As I metioned, it's nothing too bad, and some people probably don't mind the crowds, but we didn't care for it and the crowd wasn't just my imagination. It's also possible your ship wasn't near capacity.
It's easy to look at the Dream class's number of staterooms vs. the ships gross tons and see how it could be overcrowded, compared to those stats for other ships. For example, I've been on the Carnival Dream (same as Magic), which holds 3,652 passengers and is 130,000 GT = 35.6 GT/pax, and felt crowded to us, and I've been on RCI's Voyager of the Seas, which holds 3,138 passengers and is 137,276 GT = 43.7 GT/pax, and was much less crowded than the Dream. And the Triumph holds 2,758 passengers and is 101,509 GT = 36.8 GT/pax, which on my cruise was also less crowded than the Dream. The Carnival Conquest holds 2,974 passengers and is 110,000 GT = 36.99 GT/pax.

https://www.google.com/search?q=carnival+dream+overcrowded
https://www.google.com/search?q=carnival+magic+overcrowded
https://www.google.com/search?q=carnival+breeze+overcrowded





FYI, many people want to go on RCI's Oasis class (Oasis and Allure) since they're the largest ships, but many people end up saying they're overcrowded, and way too large to have to walk from place to place (and expensive). The Oasis total passenger (not counting crew) capacity is 6264 and is 225,282 GT = 35.96 GT/pax. And I know it has been on record as having cruised with 6,168 passengers.


And yes, we've had great dining room service with Carnival.


I've been on 5 cruises on the Crystal Symphony and I guess by this sort of GT/pax it must be pretty good! http://cruiseweb.com/CRYSTAL-SYMPHONY.HTM - 54 gt per pax at max, and usually they are 2/3 full so more like 70 GT/pax. I know I've been out reading on the fantail before and spent several hours without seeing anybody.

That sounds nice. Crystal gets high ratings, especially for their food. And those are comparatively small ships today, which (after hearing so many people tell me they want to go on the Oasis/Allure) shows the largest ships don't guarantee the best cruises.

It's pretty good - they pride themselves as being better food than practically any land side restaurant in the world, and they have a Nobu restaurant on board. But I'll tell you that on the longer cruises (did an LA to Hong Kong once) the food gets very "same" and you get tired of it. The Nobu is an exception - it's extraordinary. It's interesting that gratuities on something like Carnival are the same as Crystal (and other lines) but I guarantee you that the service is worse on Carnival.

mychaluva said:   Bump for cruise deals...

My family (2 adult, 2 kids) are going on a 7 day cruise the week after Thanksgiving on the Carnival Magic out of Galveston. Ports are MoBay Jamaica, Grand Cayman, and one in Mexico (can't remember which city). Base rate was about $315 per person for an interior cabin. We upgraded to a high, middle ocean view and all together it came in less than $2000.

Considering that most vacations start with $1000 in airfare, $150 for a rental car, and $400/week for hotels, we almost broke even without considering the difference in food, entertainment, childcare, etc.


Now if I could just find a discount on the parking or shuttle. I live 30 minutes away and cringe at the thought of paying $50 to park my car in one of the cruise parking lots for a week.

You can't beat a cruise for bang for the buck.

If I lived that close, I would pay a friend/relative to take us. I don't live close to a port so we've left our car at the hotel, which was cheaper than the port (and probably less likely to get broken into). Also at one port, we turned in our rental car, and the rental company took us to the port.

dealsearch said:   Talking about the kids program, we actually experienced the best kids program on Costa (no, our ship did not sink). That Costa ship was the first non-Princess ship we were on. On Princess, kids spent most of their time in kids club, playing video games. That Costa kids club did not have any video game console. Costa was so cheap, I thought. Then one day, I was sitting near the bar on the main deck, I saw a squad of kids dashing across, leading by my then 7-year-old son. I was like !@#$%^&? Then I saw two crew members following them (two Italian girls BTW). They were doing treasure hunt. On that 7-day cruise, crew members took the kids everywhere in the ship (I know many adult passengers do not like that, but kids were having fun.)

They had a pirates party with a man dressed as Pirate Captain with eye patch and etc. That man was the real Captain of our ship.

Costa and Princess are owned by Carnival. And yeah, the kids love the treasure hunts. The kids clubs do quite a few different things.

Agr8RN said:   The closer you get to the cruise, if it's not a sell out, the better your prices. You will find Resident's Rates and Senior Rates (55 or older) and these are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the standard published rates, even lower than past guest rates.

This is absolutely true, although you are taking a chance as far as getting the exact ship you want or location on a ship. Time of year means a lot too.

October is a weak cruising month apparently. I just booked a 4 day Monarch of the Seas (Royal Caribbeans older boat, but still pretty nice) for $119 per person, $364 for two incl. port taxes. I had called about a interline rate (for those in the biz) but this is just a regular rate and includes GA resident discount. You can't stay home and eat 24 meals for that price!

kriskos4 said:   Agr8RN said:   The closer you get to the cruise, if it's not a sell out, the better your prices. You will find Resident's Rates and Senior Rates (55 or older) and these are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the standard published rates, even lower than past guest rates.

This is absolutely true, although you are taking a chance as far as getting the exact ship you want or location on a ship. Time of year means a lot too.

October is a weak cruising month apparently. I just booked a 4 day Monarch of the Seas (Royal Caribbeans older boat, but still pretty nice) for $119 per person, $364 for two incl. port taxes. I had called about a interline rate (for those in the biz) but this is just a regular rate and includes GA resident discount. You can't stay home and eat 24 meals for that price!
What in the world are you eating??? Glad i'm not footing your food bill

kriskos4 said:   Agr8RN said:   The closer you get to the cruise, if it's not a sell out, the better your prices. You will find Resident's Rates and Senior Rates (55 or older) and these are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the standard published rates, even lower than past guest rates.

This is absolutely true, although you are taking a chance as far as getting the exact ship you want or location on a ship. Time of year means a lot too.

In general, that's just not true, except often (but not always) right before the cruise. As I said, it depends on a lot of factors. It may never go down at all. And it may go up!
This says "last-minute deals are usually only found for off-season trips", which are summer and fall. We go in March, before spring break, before the prices go up, and before it gets too hot. It may be cool here in March, but in the caribbean, it's usually been about 85-90, plenty hot and HUMID.
And I personally wouldn't want to wait until the last minute to book, with limited cabin selection, and then have to try to book a more expensive hotel, and if a flight is needed, the then higher flight ticket will likely wipe out your cruise ticket savings. Personally, I could never cruise without a balcony.

Read this:
When to book - now, sale, or last minute? And online TA or cruise line direct?


kriskos4 said:   October is a weak cruising month apparently. I just booked a 4 day Monarch of the Seas (Royal Caribbeans older boat, but still pretty nice) for $119 per person, $364 for two incl. port taxes. I had called about a interline rate (for those in the biz) but this is just a regular rate and includes GA resident discount. You can't stay home and eat 24 meals for that price!
The Monarch sure holds a lot of people for it's size. 26.9 Gross Tons per passenger. They do refurbs every few years on the ships, so I'm sure it's a nice ship.

mychaluva said:   Bump for cruise deals...

Now if I could just find a discount on the parking or shuttle. I live 30 minutes away and cringe at the thought of paying $50 to park my car in one of the cruise parking lots for a week.


I booked EZ Cruise Parking for a week for $32.48 using the discount code EZGIFT.

Thanks nice find.

Slickone said:   
In general, that's just not true, except often (but not always) right before the cruise.


The Monarch sure holds a lot of people for it's size. 26.9 Gross Tons per passenger. They do refurbs every few years on the ships, so I'm sure it's a nice ship.


Isn't that what I said? I consider a month before to be 'right before the cruise', and the cruise lines do as well. I believe with the new rules that you can't book a cruise less than 5 days from sailing. On Royal and Carnival, any time the kids are in school is low season. This will be the first cruise I've taken without kids...really looking forward to it.

I've been on Monarch before, it's okay. I'm used to the Royal megaships so I'm a bit spoiled.

kriskos4 said:   Slickone said:   
I believe with the new rules that you can't book a cruise less than 5 days from sailing.


When did this start? The last one I booked on short notice was the NCL Spirit out of New Orleans November of 2011.
I booked it 26 hours before I got on the ship.

rushhound said:   kriskos4 said:   Slickone said:   
I believe with the new rules that you can't book a cruise less than 5 days from sailing.


When did this start? The last one I booked on short notice was the NCL Spirit out of New Orleans November of 2011.
I booked it 26 hours before I got on the ship.


I guess you still can book really late then. My agent seems to think that I couldn't.

rushhound said:   kriskos4 said:   Slickone said:   
I believe with the new rules that you can't book a cruise less than 5 days from sailing.


When did this start? The last one I booked on short notice was the NCL Spirit out of New Orleans November of 2011.
I booked it 26 hours before I got on the ship.

You quoted wrong. I wasn't the one that said that. I've talked to people on a Carnival cruise that booked that day or the day before (can't remember).

kriskos4 said:   Slickone said:   
In general, that's just not true, except often (but not always) right before the cruise.


The Monarch sure holds a lot of people for it's size. 26.9 Gross Tons per passenger. They do refurbs every few years on the ships, so I'm sure it's a nice ship.


Isn't that what I said? I consider a month before to be 'right before the cruise', and the cruise lines do as well. I believe with the new rules that you can't book a cruise less than 5 days from sailing. On Royal and Carnival, any time the kids are in school is low season. This will be the first cruise I've taken without kids...really looking forward to it.

I've been on Monarch before, it's okay. I'm used to the Royal megaships so I'm a bit spoiled.

No, you didn't. You said it's absolutely true that the closer to the cruise, the lower the price. Which is not true, as stated. As I've said in two previous posts, the price can actually go up, or be sold out (so it's not "lower" then either), and depends on a lot of factors.

Slickone said:   rushhound said:   kriskos4 said:   Slickone said:   
I believe with the new rules that you can't book a cruise less than 5 days from sailing.


When did this start? The last one I booked on short notice was the NCL Spirit out of New Orleans November of 2011.
I booked it 26 hours before I got on the ship.

You quoted wrong. I wasn't the one that said that. I've talked to people on a Carnival cruise that booked that day or the day before (can't remember).


Yep, sorry about that. I was trying to clean up the post and messed it up.

I have done cruises in under 48 hours on Carnival, NCL and RCL.
Living close to NOLA comes in handy when great last minute deals pop up.

Slickone said:   kriskos4 said:   Slickone said:   
In general, that's just not true, except often (but not always) right before the cruise.


The Monarch sure holds a lot of people for it's size. 26.9 Gross Tons per passenger. They do refurbs every few years on the ships, so I'm sure it's a nice ship.


Isn't that what I said? I consider a month before to be 'right before the cruise', and the cruise lines do as well. I believe with the new rules that you can't book a cruise less than 5 days from sailing. On Royal and Carnival, any time the kids are in school is low season. This will be the first cruise I've taken without kids...really looking forward to it.

I've been on Monarch before, it's okay. I'm used to the Royal megaships so I'm a bit spoiled.

No, you didn't. You said it's absolutely true that the closer to the cruise, the lower the price. Which is not true, as stated. As I've said in two previous posts, the price can actually go up, or be sold out (so it's not "lower" then either), and depends on a lot of factors.


There are few absolutes in this world...generally the price will go down if a boat is not full near sailing. You are stating the obvious, that if a boat is close to sold out that the price may go up (in fact it will go up, simply supply and demand).

Slickone said:   kriskos4 said:   Agr8RN said:   The closer you get to the cruise, if it's not a sell out, the better your prices. You will find Resident's Rates and Senior Rates (55 or older) and these are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the standard published rates, even lower than past guest rates.

This is absolutely true, although you are taking a chance as far as getting the exact ship you want or location on a ship. Time of year means a lot too.

In general, that's just not true, except often (but not always) right before the cruise. As I said, it depends on a lot of factors. It may never go down at all. And it may go up!
This says "last-minute deals are usually only found for off-season trips", which are summer and fall. We go in March, before spring break, before the prices go up, and before it gets too hot. It may be cool here in March, but in the caribbean, it's usually been about 85-90, plenty hot and HUMID.
And I personally wouldn't want to wait until the last minute to book, with limited cabin selection, and then have to try to book a more expensive hotel, and if a flight is needed, the then higher flight ticket will likely wipe out your cruise ticket savings. Personally, I could never cruise without a balcony.


[kriskos4 said:   October is a weak cruising month apparently. I just booked a 4 day Monarch of the Seas (Royal Caribbeans older boat, but still pretty nice) for $119 per person, $364 for two incl. port taxes. I had called about a interline rate (for those in the biz) but this is just a regular rate and includes GA resident discount. You can't stay home and eat 24 meals for that price!
The Monarch sure holds a lot of people for it's size. 26.9 Gross Tons per passenger. They do refurbs every few years on the ships, so I'm sure it's a nice ship.


@ Slickone - If you notice, I did state in my post 'if it's not a sell-out'; anyone wanting to cruise on a certain ship, itinerary or date - especially during high times, should definitely not wait until the last minute or you might get real disappointed or pay more. If you are flexible w/ your dates and can wait until after everyone else has made their final payments, then you stand a good chance of getting a discount IF the ship is NOT a sell-out.

Most people who booked into my group after final payment, saved about $150 per person utilizing resident and or over 55 rates. These usually aren't available if the ship is sold out or near sell out.

Cheapest time to cruise is hurricaine season - late August, Sept and Beginning of Oct. I cruise every year around Halloween, prices are fantastic and it is rare to have a storm that late.



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