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1) If you buy ammo online you know you have to order 10+ boxes to make the shipping work for you.
2) Ammo always OOS stock @ Wal-Mart around me, And I dont have to drive store to store to store.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/independence-9mm-115gr-...

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ammo (40.79kB)
Thanks BMWLVR82
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For $4.50 more per 1000 rds, I'd rather get Blazer Brass, also from PSA, but hurry up deals expires 11pm EST.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition/handgun-ammu...

seedeeze said:   For $4.50 more per 1000 rds, I'd rather get Blazer Brass, also from PSA, but hurry up deals expires 11pm EST.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ammunition/handgun-ammu...


Same stuff. Same Company

ATK Ammo Information:

ATK's history is an impressive one with the independent company starting in 1990. By acquiring the former Honeywell business markets, ATK jumped into supplying defense products and systems to the United States and its allies. ATK was responsible for supplying the first electronic autopilot to assist in targeted bombing missions during World War II. Continuing to grow aggressively, ATK gained market share in the aerospace industry by acquiring two key companies- Hercules Aerospace Company and Thiokol Propulsion Company.

ATK has many branches of operations. Their ATK Armament Systems branch manufactures some of the best known ammunition brands through their commercial products and programs including Federal, CCI, Speer, and Outers. ATK Ammunition is the largest manufacturer of ammunition in the world! Besides manufacturing ammunition for hunters and shooters, ATK also is the main ammunition supplier for the homeland security and police officers. ATK Ammo has a huge production capacity and is responsible for running two major ammo production plants by the name of the Radford Army Ammunition Plant and the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant.



Where ATK Ammo Is Manufactured:

ATK Ammo is manufactured in the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Independence, Missouri and in the Radford Army Ammunition Plant in Radford, Virginia. The plants are capable of producing over 1.5 billion rounds of small caliber ammunition every year!

As I understand it, each of Alliant Techsystems' daughter companies are independent of one another including their formulations, and component combinations. Although Independence uses components from it's sister companies, I think stating that the two ammo are the same is a bit of a stretch. It's like saying Lexus and Toyotas are the same.

seedeeze said:   As I understand it, each of Alliant Techsystems' daughter companies are independent of one another including their formulations, and component combinations. Although Independence uses components from it's sister companies, I think stating that the two ammo are the same is a bit of a stretch. It's like saying Lexus and Toyotas are the same.

Its the same. Independence, Blazer, and Federal Champion are the same. I wouldn't call any of the three the lexus of ammo though.

It would literally be stupid of them to use all sorts of different components for the same caliber, and quality.

Lastly, There is only two plants....

Where ATK Ammo Is Manufactured:

ATK Ammo is manufactured in the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Independence, Missouri and in the Radford Army Ammunition Plant in Radford, Virginia. The plants are capable of producing over 1.5 billion rounds of small caliber ammunition every year!

But, whatever.... I don't particularly care, I was just providing accurate info... take away what you will.

I'll shoot my reloads at under 1/2 that cost and not worry about being able to have ammo to shoot

ZombieHunter said:   Its the same. Independence, Blazer, and Federal Champion are the same. I wouldn't call any of the three the lexus of ammo though.

It would literally be stupid of them to use all sorts of different components for the same caliber, and quality.

Lastly, There is only two plants....


Are you kidding me? Federal alone, has two distinct 9mm 115gr offering (American Eagle and Federal), and those two cartridges are definitely NOT the same. Speer lawman also have it's own distinct ballistics. Blazer Brass? You betcha, yet another different set of figures. To prove the point further, Alliant Powder, also part of ATK, has two smokeless powders (Red Dot and Promo) that behaves exactly the same way, yet they are not the same, and yes they come from the same plant. Stuff coming from the same plant does not mean they are the same.

Sorry but I'm not buying your logic.

@omco6: I hear you, but with the cost of components my cost per round is still at least $0.12 even with using range pickups (3.8gr of Titegroup under 124gr FP Xtreme Bullets). I'm thinking about casting my own bullets to save even more.

*Edit: The phrase "American Eagle" is parsed automatically by FatWallet to link to American Eagle Outfitters' website (ae.com), the clothing store, I did not link them there.

seedeeze said:   ZombieHunter said:   Its the same. Independence, Blazer, and Federal Champion are the same. I wouldn't call any of the three the lexus of ammo though.

It would literally be stupid of them to use all sorts of different components for the same caliber, and quality.

Lastly, There is only two plants....


Are you kidding me? Federal alone, has two distinct 9mm 115gr offering (American Eagle and Federal), and those two cartridges are definitely NOT the same. Speer lawman also have it's own distinct ballistics. Blazer Brass? You betcha, yet another different set of figures. To prove the point further, Alliant Powder, also part of ATK, has two smokeless powders (Red Dot and Promo) that behaves exactly the same way, yet they are not the same, and yes they come from the same plant. Stuff coming from the same plant does not mean they are the same.

Sorry but I'm not buying your logic.

@omco6: I hear you, but with the cost of components my cost per round is still at least $0.12 even with using range pickups (3.8gr of Titegroup under 124gr FP Xtreme Bullets). I'm thinking about casting my own bullets to save even more.

*Edit: The phrase "American Eagle" is parsed automatically by FatWallet to link to American Eagle Outfitters' website (ae.com), the clothing store, I did not link them there.


I understand that they are all not the same, I am saying these are, and most are repackaged and renamed, and I am willing to bet you can't tell the difference between the two. My Independence is stamped "Blazer"? Just sayin'. But, like I said, i am just trying to educate. Take away what you will. Shoot all you can!

seedeeze , if your looking at casting then right now you can pickup componets that put your cost under $90.00/K, my hand cast loads at todays prices run from $47/K to $29/K depending on how I come up with my lead for casting

So educate us, the two may very well be the same but present us with some meaningful facts not like "they are from the same company from the same plant so they must be the same ammo" argument.

Yes the headstamp does say Blazer, and at some point they were using Federal made brass and probably others as well (but I've only seen the two), but you have to realize the case is only one of four components, how do you know all components are the same? And that is really why I would personally get the Blazer Brass over the Independence, it's because Independence has already proven they are willing to use someone else' components, who knows from where they got the other components, with the Blazer Brass at only $5/1k more, I know what I'm getting.

omco6, are you casting 9mm? which molds and what alloy are you using? Where do you get your alloy? What are your thought on smelting?

seedeeze said:   So educate us, the two may very well be the same but present us with some meaningful facts not like "they are from the same company from the same plant so they must be the same ammo" argument.

Yes the headstamp does say Blazer, and at some point they were using Federal made brass and probably others as well (but I've only seen the two), but you have to realize the case is only one of four components, how do you know all components are the same? And that is really why I would personally get the Blazer Brass over the Independence, it's because Independence has already proven they are willing to use someone else' components, who knows from where they got the other components, with the Blazer Brass at only $5/1k more, I know what I'm getting.


?? Using someone else's components ??

Actually, since ATK is the parent company.... Blazer and Federal are using ATK's rebranded components. Something to think about huh?

Wow, you have gone from trying to "educate" us to picking semantics.

Alrighty then, I think my work here is done!

Ciao

Does anyone have actual experience shooting with this ammo vs. debating corporate purchasing and production methodologies?

cleek said:   Does anyone have actual experience shooting with this ammo vs. debating corporate purchasing and production methodologies?

Yes. I bought some during the last sale and I'm impressed. I don't know the difference on the inside of the barrel because I don't clean my Glock often enough, but I noticed how clean the outside of the rounds were. Normally after loading mags w/ WWB or Aguila ammo, my hands are black from a lot of extra dust/grease build up on the bullets/casings. I didn't have this issue with the ATK. If they had free shipping on it like the previous deal, I'd be stocking up.

I'd prefer 124gr for the same price, but in reality, I probably can't notice a 9gr difference between bullets anyway when I'm shooting.

FWIW, the last few boxes of Independence I purchased had 'blazer' stamped on the casings. Had the first jamming I've run (while chambering) but it was a brand new weapon.

Looks like the price is still available.



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