This is the PM-9 with the External Safety and Loaded Chamber Indicator, Not the CW-9 or CM-9
Description: With the objective of excellence in workmanship and material, Kahr does not compromise either in the designing or the manufacturing of the pistol. The most advanced computer applications and precise manufacturing technologies have been implemented to provide one of the finest compact pistols on the market. New Enhanced Trigger Specifications: Caliber: 9mm Capacity: 6+1, 7+1 (magazine with grip extension) Operation: Trigger cocking DAO; lock breech; ”Browning - type” recoil lug; passive striker block; no magazine disconnect Barrel: 3.1”, polygonal rifling; 1 - 10 right-hand twist Length O/A: 5.42” Height: 4.0” Slide Width: .90” Weight: Pistol 14 ounces, Magazine 1.9 ounces Grips: Textured polymer Sights: Drift adjustable, white bar-dot combat sights Finish: Black polymer frame, matte stainless steel slide Magazines: 1 each: 6 rd flush floorplate & 7 rd extended grip
ghostofdavid said: I would never want one of these with a safety nor a loaded chamber indicator. Any particular reason? I have an original PM9, without these features, and also see no need for them. But is there some technical reason you dislike them (reliability impact, interference with the draw, etc.)or is it just a dislike because it was probably added thanks to legislators in states like Commie-fornia?
RKBA said: ghostofdavid said: I would never want one of these with a safety nor a loaded chamber indicator. Any particular reason? I have an original PM9, without these features, and also see no need for them. But is there some technical reason you dislike them (reliability impact, interference with the draw, etc.)or is it just a dislike because it was probably added thanks to legislators in states like Commie-fornia?
In California the Reg. Kahr PM-9 are legal.
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Dec. 24, 2012 @ 11:30p
ghostofdavid said: I would never want one of these with a safety nor a loaded chamber indicator.
There is never a time that I take out my 'ready' gun at home without pulling back the slide and glimpsing the shine of a nickel-plated JHP to confirm it is indeed loaded.
This makes me feel better/safer/more confident in my gun's status than any bump/notch/indicator that claims serves this purpose. As far as a safety, having one is the absolute last line of defense should the 'bad guy' get your gun before you do. Security through obscurity isnt the best thing to rely on, but I'll take whatever life brings me.
Well, GhostofDavid wrote an excellent reply on why he doesn't like external safeties, but it's been deleted. Hopefully he will repost it. It was an excellent explanation of how external safeties can get in the way or be forgotten during times of stress.
In the meantime, here is my reply to his post. Hopefully it will be seen.
RKBA said: I wish I could give you 100 greens for that explanation. If I were a better writer, I could have written that myself.
That said, I think it ultimately comes down to training. If you train well (consistently, realistically, frequently) then your body should automatically do what you've practiced. I do not carry any handguns with a manual safety, but I've never forgotten to take the safety off my ARs when needed either. (Can't say the same about scope cove rs, though, because I don't usually train with them closed.) I believe it's a matter of training/familiarity/muscle memory.
Oh, and if I had written your explanation, I would have thrown in a "ditto" comment on magazine disconnects, too. Another useless "feature" brought about by liability lawyers (or fear of them).
posted: Dec. 26, 2012 @ 5:35p
Let me try editing this again:
Yes. All of my training has been done with firearms that do not have safeties. Glocks, M&Ps, XDs. All of them require you to do no other manipulation other than sight picture and a squeeze of a trigger (I am simplifying greatly).
I am simply too stupid to remember how to do manipulate safeties under stress or stress fire. If you have trai ned with nothing e lse, you may be too. My life is too important, to me, to add a road block of safeties into pulling t he trigger when necessary.
I love 1911s and everything about them (except for maybe capacity with standard mags) but the reason I don't carry one is due to the safety. If I need to use it, I don't think I'll remember to disengage the safety. I encourage everyone to try it out for themselves.
Manual safeties, loaded chamber indicators and all other unnecessary 'safety-minded' designs are usually afterthoughts. Even the coveted 1911 was originally designed by JMB without a thumb safety. They give a false sense of security or hope. One should never violate the four-rules of firearms safety. If you obey the four rules, you'll never have an issue. But to those who may relay on these safety features and one or more of them do not work, then someone is going to get seriously injured or killed.
In short, manual safeties or other sa fety devices fail a nd when they do and false hope is put in them, the consequences are awful.
The only safety you need is the one between your ears. Yes, many firearms have safeties. If you train with them, use them. Pick one that uses it as its original design and not as a safety afterthought.
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