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Thanks for the heads up! was concerned about that. any good alternative that will charge properly?

booksleuth said:   do not buy if your have no C (ground) wire. Nest will not charge and you will have issues. Older homes with no C wire from furnace to 'STAT, and no easy way to add, due to walls and plaster, do not buy !

why people needs this thing in the 1st place?

looper said:   I integrated my Nest with an iPhone detection script I wrote. Basically, as soon as we leave the house, as detected by absence of iphones, my script will automatically set nest to away. Upon our return, as soon as either of our phones are seen, the nest turns off away and starts heating.

It guarantees that we're not heating the house when we're not there. For people with chaotic/unpredictable schedules, works wonderfully to save $$, and doesn't rely on walking by the thermostat.

I was on the fence about the benefit of Nest, until I got this working.. Now I'm sold.


This script sounds awesome. I'd appreciate it if you could share the details. This is probably my only "want" for my NEST.

antibankxing said:   why people needs this thing in the 1st place?

somz don't knowz why 4

I have a bad case of the flu right now and am bed-ridden. The ability to change the temp from my phone without getting up makes it so worth the price.

SADSADLife said:   
This script sounds awesome. I'd appreciate it if you could share the details. This is probably my only "want" for my NEST.


A simple way is to poll your router and see if you phones are connected on your wifi. A better way is to integrate with your home security system. System Armed-Away Status>HVAC in Away mode.

This is a cool idea. .. but I don't get why people want to pay the big bucks for this if its anything other than looks.

The 3M radio thermostat does the same at less than half the price. It is free (or at least the built in price is a heck of a lot cheaper) to access remotely and they even released docs for the built in web server to be able to connect via its web service api's if you want.

Either way, I've had mine for over 2 years and this stuff is awesome. Everyone with a smartphone should get one!




looper said:   I integrated my Nest with an iPhone detection script I wrote. Basically, as soon as we leave the house, as detected by absence of iphones, my script will automatically set nest to away. Upon our return, as soon as either of our phones are seen, the nest turns off away and starts heating.

It guarantees that we're not heating the house when we're not there. For people with chaotic/unpredictable schedules, works wonderfully to save $$, and doesn't rely on walking by the thermostat.

I was on the fence about the benefit of Nest, until I got this working.. Now I'm sold.

I haven't used a Nest so I can't comment on it. +1 on the 3M radio thermostat though. I have one and have been very satisfied. It is nice that they publish their API along with examples. Makes it easy to integrate with my other home automation devices.

I got a 3M as well and can even control it from any of the Sony Dashes around my house. I don't quite understand those who bought a Nest and are now trying to override its learning capabilities with a script. The self learning would seem to be the primary reason to spend 2x more for a Nest over any of its competitors.

KuoH

Picked up 2 Nests with the $50 Best Buy coupons recently so 199 + tax for the gen 2s.

A few things.
1. RIDICULOUSLY easy to install. All the tools in the box. Great website to see exactly the connections you need to make before you even start. Customer service is good. You can feel confident you will be able to do this. I can't speak to how difficult others are to install, but they really can't be much easier than the Nest. i paid a bit more for the Nest for the greater probability of a successful and stress-free install. This is my general opinion on all things electrical.

2. Savings. We went from a nonprogrammable stat to the Nest so we will save something in increased efficiency. We have gas heat so savings is minimal now given the cheap cost of Natural gas. We will save more on AC in our very hot state. If you have electric heat, and don't have a programmable, I would say you are throwing a lotof money out the window. Buy one, any one.

3. I have had other programmables in other homes. The problems is they adapt poorly if you have a complex schedule and you end up overriding the programming and then forgetting about it. Happened at least 30% of the time on our old Honeywell in our hold house. A total pain to reprogram. Things are better now, but the auto learn on the nest has lived up to the hype. Our schedules are variable around a central mean and it does a very good job. I haven't even looked at the programming schedule in weeks but I monitor my usage on the app and see the heat just isn't coming on during the day except to warm up 45 minutes before we wake up and 30-40 minutes before we get home. That's it most days, but we live in the south so that is a big part of it.

4. This is turning into the whole apple/android debate via thermostats. Both will likely work just fine as long as they have the features you want. It comes down to personal preference in the end.

5. One note about looks, the nest circle mounting holes are vertical. 99% of thermostats mount horizontally, so your small nest will not cover up the horizontal holes of your prior thermostat, most likely. Nest includes a white mounting cover for just this issue, and I used it just fine. The only reason i mention it, is that if you want the nice look of just the round nest mounted directly on the wall (no, like in the commercial, you will most likely have to cover the prior drywall holes and repaint the area. Just FYI.

coolbreeze said:   I have a bad case of the flu right now and am bed-ridden. The ability to change the temp from my phone without getting up makes it so worth the price.

Props for still going on fw

mav14 said:   coolbreeze said:   I have a bad case of the flu right now and am bed-ridden. The ability to change the temp from my phone without getting up makes it so worth the price.

Props for still going on fw

Now that I'm not totally zonked like I was the first day (slept for 30 hours straight - thought it was the end ), I'm bored stiff. Nothing else to do!

looper said:   I integrated my Nest with an iPhone detection script I wrote. Basically, as soon as we leave the house, as detected by absence of iphones, my script will automatically set nest to away. Upon our return, as soon as either of our phones are seen, the nest turns off away and starts heating.

It guarantees that we're not heating the house when we're not there. For people with chaotic/unpredictable schedules, works wonderfully to save $$, and doesn't rely on walking by the thermostat.

I was on the fence about the benefit of Nest, until I got this working.. Now I'm sold.


I did the same thing with my 3M Filtrete. My only problem would be if I decide to turn off wifi on the phone or I am outside mowing the lawn where my wifi isn't quite strong enough to reach. One of these days I'll finish my GPS tracking app for my droid. That would be even better because I could have it turn the heat or ac on as I get closer to the house.

I have posted on FW "Deal Not Working" button for this on their site as I keep telling them - "Deal is not working cuz this is not a deal"

MillionairesNextDoor said:   Picked up 2 Nests with the $50 Best Buy coupons recently so 199 + tax for the gen 2s.

2. Savings. We went from a nonprogrammable stat to the Nest so we will save something in increased efficiency. We have gas heat so savings is minimal now given the cheap cost of Natural gas. We will save more on AC in our very hot state. If you have electric heat, and don't have a programmable, I would say you are throwing a lotof money out the window. Buy one, any one.

3. I have had other programmables in other homes. The problems is they adapt poorly if you have a complex schedule and you end up overriding the programming and then forgetting about it. Happened at least 30% of the time on our old Honeywell in our hold house. A total pain to reprogram. Things are better now, but the auto learn on the nest has lived up to the hype. Our schedules are variable around a central mean and it does a very good job. I haven't even looked at the programming schedule in weeks but I monitor my usage on the app and see the heat just isn't coming on during the day except to warm up 45 minutes before we wake up and 30-40 minutes before we get home. That's it most days, but we live in the south so that is a big part of it.



This is just horrifically misinformed information. A thermostat has NO bearing on efficiency. That's a function of your a/c and your furnace. In a typical house, without ducted ventilation air to a furnace, the savings claims made by these devices are way overblown. (Speaking as an HVAC engineer).

Think of it this way: For air conditioning, say you set the stat at 75 when you're home and 85 when you're not. Without a programmable stat, the unit comes on for a short while and off for a short while to maintain a constant temperature. With a setback, the unit will run continuously for some period of time before you return to cool the house from 85 to 75. Your house absorbs the same amount of BTUs from the sun whether you're home or not. Unless you're away for sigificant amounts of time (>12 hours), you're not likely to see significant savings.

If you really want to save energy, just pick new setpoints. 67-68 for heating and 75-76 for cooling.

Here's a link with links to studies if you're really curious.

http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2011/03/21/do-programmable-the...

BobM73 said:    In a typical house, without ducted ventilation air to a furnace, the savings claims made by these devices are way overblown. (Speaking as an HVAC engineer).

Think of it this way: For air conditioning, say you set the stat at 75 when you're home and 85 when you're not. Without a programmable stat, the unit comes on for a short while and off for a short while to maintain a constant temperature. With a setback, the unit will run continuously for some period of time before you return to cool the house from 85 to 75. Your house absorbs the same amount of BTUs from the sun whether you're home or not.
It would seem that the difference between your thermostat setting and the outside temperature would be quite significant.

Unless you're away for sigificant amounts of time (>12 hours), you're not likely to see significant savings.That's not what the link you provided states:
On average, if you turn the thermostat down by one degree Fahrenheit for eight hours every night, you’ll use about 1% less energy. (So, if you turn the temperature down by 10 degrees every night, you’ll use about 10% less energy.) But note that you’ll see less savings in milder climates (the bigger the difference between indoor and outdoor temperatures, the more you save by adjusting the thermostat) and with electric heat.
BobM73 said:   If you really want to save energy, just pick new setpoints. 67-68 for heating and 75-76 for cooling.

Here's a link with links to studies if you're really curious.

http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2011/03/21/do-programmable-the...
The takeaway of the article you linked to is that people who use a programmable thermostat with setpoints higher (for heat) or lower (for cooling) then they otherwise would use more energy.

Nowhere does it say that a programmable thermostat used correctly does not produce savings...in fact it states quite the opposite several times.

I've used Proliphix thermostats in my house for years (wired ethernet/web interface)...it seems they've moved away from residential offerings but one neat feature is that it has is a mechanical fail-safe so even if the thermostat has no power it will turn on the heat at some preset threshold to keep pipes from freezing.

From what I've read, people in the HVAC industry dislike how Nest is disrupting their business.

BobM73 said:   
This is just horrifically misinformed information. A thermostat has NO bearing on efficiency. That's a function of your a/c and your furnace. In a typical house, without ducted ventilation air to a furnace, the savings claims made by these devices are way overblown. (Speaking as an HVAC engineer).

Think of it this way: For air conditioning, say you set the stat at 75 when you're home and 85 when you're not. Without a programmable stat, the unit comes on for a short while and off for a short while to maintain a constant temperature. With a setback, the unit will run continuously for some period of time before you return to cool the house from 85 to 75. Your house absorbs the same amount of BTUs from the sun whether you're home or not. Unless you're away for sigificant amounts of time (>12 hours), you're not likely to see significant savings.

If you really want to save energy, just pick new setpoints. 67-68 for heating and 75-76 for cooling.

Here's a link with links to studies if you're really curious.

http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2011/03/21/do-programmable-the...


Could you clarify what you mean by HVAC engineer? Are you designing systems at the manufacturer level or do you service home AC units? I know... I know... but I gotta ask, a lot of people think they are engineers now. I was at a hotel a year ago and had hotel engineering come in and get deck chairs off our balcony before the storm came in.

I'd think there would be a significant difference of a setback but if you are a SME, I'd love to get some hard data, not the article above. Show me stats for a large building running setback and keeping temperature equalized.

I'm working on my own, I already have my 3M tstats writing to a mysql db, working on a script to get weather metrics including solar radiation. I might have some numbers that mean something a few months.

18 years desiging HVAC systems for commercial an institutional buildings. Registered professional engineer in 13 states. Developed energy models for buildings. Enough of a resume?

1) I posted the article mostly for the links to the studies. But even so. A $250 thermostat and an 8 hour setback results in a 1% energy savings and you think this is a GOOD thing?
2) To the questions of large buildings - yes setback works, and I use it all the time as an energy savings measure. The reason? Commercial HVAC systems are required by Code to provide large amounts of outdoor air. This means they need to pay to heat and cool that air whether the building is occupied or not. Also, they need to run the supply fan continuously to supply this ventilation air to the building. This is NOT what happens in a residential HVAC system. In a residential system, the fan cycles to meet the building's load and the heating or cooling is only enabled to make a setpoint.

But just for grins, let's say that the 1% savings is real. I've got a 2500 sq. ft. home that's moderately well insulated in northern great lakes area. My TOTAL gas and electric bills last year were about $3200. Even if ALL of my utility spend went to HVAC, I'dve saved a whopping $32. (Typically, it's closer to 25-40%). So, in 9 years, if everything goes perfectly, you MIGHT pay for this thing.

To the person who said the industry is "afraid" of this thing - Are you insane? I make my money selling my clients energy efficiency solotions. This is not one I'd recommend. It looks fancy and high-tech, it has some interesting gizmos, but at the end of the day, it's not worth it.

As I said earlier, the best way to save money in residential HVAC is to set the temperature as close to the outdoor temperature as you can comfortably life.

BobM73 said:   A $250 thermostat and an 8 hour setback results in a 1% energy savings and you think this is a GOOD thing?Uh, its 1% for 1 degree of setback - its 10% energy savings for 10 degrees of setback. Who would program a thermostat to only setback a single degree? Either you are arguing disingenuously or you have a severe reading comprehension issue.

BobM73 said:   18 years desiging HVAC systems for commercial an institutional buildings. Registered professional engineer in 13 states. Developed energy models for buildings. Enough of a resume?

1) I posted the article mostly for the links to the studies. But even so. A $250 thermostat and an 8 hour setback results in a 1% energy savings and you think this is a GOOD thing?
2) To the questions of large buildings - yes setback works, and I use it all the time as an energy savings measure. The reason? Commercial HVAC systems are required by Code to provide large amounts of outdoor air. This means they need to pay to heat and cool that air whether the building is occupied or not. Also, they need to run the supply fan continuously to supply this ventilation air to the building. This is NOT what happens in a residential HVAC system. In a residential system, the fan cycles to meet the building's load and the heating or cooling is only enabled to make a setpoint.

But just for grins, let's say that the 1% savings is real. I've got a 2500 sq. ft. home that's moderately well insulated in northern great lakes area. My TOTAL gas and electric bills last year were about $3200. Even if ALL of my utility spend went to HVAC, I'dve saved a whopping $32. (Typically, it's closer to 25-40%). So, in 9 years, if everything goes perfectly, you MIGHT pay for this thing.

To the person who said the industry is "afraid" of this thing - Are you insane? I make my money selling my clients energy efficiency solotions. This is not one I'd recommend. It looks fancy and high-tech, it has some interesting gizmos, but at the end of the day, it's not worth it.

As I said earlier, the best way to save money in residential HVAC is to set the temperature as close to the outdoor temperature as you can comfortably life.



So your credential should add some credibility, but I think what you provided is anecdotal evidence and math to accompany it. I don't think you are doing anything to sway anyone from believing the what the EPA/Energy star say. BTW, do you have a setback thermostat or do you keep everything at a constant temp?

booksleuth said:   do not buy if your have no C (ground) wire. Nest will not charge and you will have issues. Older homes with no C wire from furnace to 'STAT, and no easy way to add, due to walls and plaster, do not buy !

I needed 24V for my Trane Z-Wave thermostat in my house built in the 50's. I just used the old cable to pull a new cable with more wires through. If you don't have a 24v terminal on your furnace/AC you can use a irrigation transformer to provide it.

All I know is our heating bill (natural gas) went from $215 pre-Nest to $150 post-Nest. Temps have been just as cold (9-30 degrees).

I'm a believer.

coolbreeze said:   All I know is our heating bill (natural gas) went from $215 pre-Nest to $150 post-Nest. Temps have been just as cold (9-30 degrees).

I'm a believer.


I'm sorry...but if you believe that the reason was based on solely on the Nest (and not going from a non-programmable thermostat to a programmable one)..you deserve to fall (and pay extra) for sales pitches.

respdoc said:   coolbreeze said:   All I know is our heating bill (natural gas) went from $215 pre-Nest to $150 post-Nest. Temps have been just as cold (9-30 degrees).

I'm a believer.


I'm sorry...but if you believe that the reason was based on solely on the Nest (and not going from a non-programmable thermostat to a programmable one)..you deserve to fall (and pay extra) for sales pitches.

Lol. You work for Honeywell? Still mad about the patent "theft?"

I'm glad you're sorry. I'm also glad my energy bill is actually going down. This is a fact, not a sales pitch.

FYI, we had a programmable Honeywell thermostat prior. Had that thing programmed to the hilt. The Nest, yes while being shiny and expensive, actually manages the on/off of the heat better, saving us real money. That coupled with auto-away and the learning cycle for our daily schedule is working.

But please, carry on with the hate.

coolbreeze said:   



I'm glad you're sorry. I'm also glad my energy bill is actually going down. This is a fact, not a sales pitch.

But please, carry on with the hate.



No hate, just surprised at some peoples lack of any form of common sense or ability to rationally deduce basic cause/effect situations.

Please don't let me interrupt your ignorant Bliss.

Somehow I ended up in the weird part of Fatwallet again.

respdoc said:   coolbreeze said:   



I'm glad you're sorry. I'm also glad my energy bill is actually going down. This is a fact, not a sales pitch.

But please, carry on with the hate.



No hate, just surprised at some peoples lack of any form of common sense or ability to rationally deduce basic cause/effect situations.

Please don't let me interrupt your ignorant Bliss.

Genuinely curious here. What's your expert recommendation on home heating/cooling? Your level of confidence is off the chart, so please share with the class what the correct setup is for energy efficient needs since the Nest is nothing more than a shiny well marketed gimmick that does nothing it was designed to do.

coolbreeze said:   
Genuinely curious here. What's your expert recommendation on home heating/cooling? Your level of confidence is off the chart, so please share with the class what the correct setup is for energy efficient needs since the Nest is nothing more than a shiny well marketed gimmick that does nothing it was designed to do.


This website forum is for "hot deals." At the current price (and features available compared to other units that offer similar features) this is not a hot deal.

You are free to spend your money on this...or a diamond encrusted one, if you prefer. Neither though, are a "hot deal".

The dispute arose when you tried to equate this product to the sole reason for your huge jump in savings. Most people are able to properly program a thermostat...so your abnormally high savings (based mostly on user error)...does not add any credibility to the product itself.

respdoc is full of hot air, so he naturally considers himself an expert on the subject. How could anyone's actual experience possibly trump his opinions?

respdoc said:   coolbreeze said:   
Genuinely curious here. What's your expert recommendation on home heating/cooling? Your level of confidence is off the chart, so please share with the class what the correct setup is for energy efficient needs since the Nest is nothing more than a shiny well marketed gimmick that does nothing it was designed to do.


This website forum is for "hot deals." At the current price (and features available compared to other units that offer similar features) this is not a hot deal.

You are free to spend your money on this...or a diamond encrusted one, if you prefer. Neither though, are a "hot deal".

The dispute arose when you tried to equate this product to the sole reason for your huge jump in savings. Most people are able to properly program a thermostat...so your abnormally high savings (based mostly on user error)...does not add any credibility to the product itself.

I'll bite. Get one from Amazon's Warehouse deals.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B009GDHYPQ/ref=sr_1_1_olp...

Gen 2 for $205. Warm deal? I buy everything from Warehouse Deals. Pretty much everything is brand new and has the manufacturers warranty. Got two 24" Dell IPS monitors delivered yesterday for $263 each. They were brand new and have a full 3-yr Dell warranty.

Just trying to add some value to this discussion instead of crying that MSRP is ice cold.

Well, the nest sensor only works if a person passes by it regularly, correct?

The thermostat in my house is in Dining area which we rarely visits (pretty much only time we visit is to adjust thermostat. )

does this mean I will have to move the thermostat somewhere else to make Nest work if I wanted to install Nest?

Sorry for not quoting the post I was replying to.

MillionairesNextDoor said:   Picked up 2 Nests with the $50 Best Buy coupons recently so 199 + tax for the gen 2s.

A few things.
1. RIDICULOUSLY easy to install. All the tools in the box. Great website to see exactly the connections you need to make before you even start. Customer service is good. You can feel confident you will be able to do this. I can't speak to how difficult others are to install, but they really can't be much easier than the Nest. i paid a bit more for the Nest for the greater probability of a successful and stress-free install. This is my general opinion on all things electrical.

2. Savings. We went from a nonprogrammable stat to the Nest so we will save something in increased efficiency. We have gas heat so savings is minimal now given the cheap cost of Natural gas. We will save more on AC in our very hot state. If you have electric heat, and don't have a programmable, I would say you are throwing a lotof money out the window. Buy one, any one.

3. I have had other programmables in other homes. The problems is they adapt poorly if you have a complex schedule and you end up overriding the programming and then forgetting about it. Happened at least 30% of the time on our old Honeywell in our hold house. A total pain to reprogram. Things are better now, but the auto learn on the nest has lived up to the hype. Our schedules are variable around a central mean and it does a very good job. I haven't even looked at the programming schedule in weeks but I monitor my usage on the app and see the heat just isn't coming on during the day except to warm up 45 minutes before we wake up and 30-40 minutes before we get home. That's it most days, but we live in the south so that is a big part of it.

4. This is turning into the whole apple/android debate via thermostats. Both will likely work just fine as long as they have the features you want. It comes down to personal preference in the end.

5. One note about looks, the nest circle mounting holes are vertical. 99% of thermostats mount horizontally, so your small nest will not cover up the horizontal holes of your prior thermostat, most likely. Nest includes a white mounting cover for just this issue, and I used it just fine. The only reason i mention it, is that if you want the nice look of just the round nest mounted directly on the wall (no, like in the commercial, you will most likely have to cover the prior drywall holes and repaint the area. Just FYI.


Where did you get the $50 bb coupons?

Stranger2 said:   Well, the nest sensor only works if a person passes by it regularly, correct?

The thermostat in my house is in Dining area which we rarely visits (pretty much only time we visit is to adjust thermostat. )

does this mean I will have to move the thermostat somewhere else to make Nest work if I wanted to install Nest?


No, you can turn off the auto-away feature if you would like instead of moving your thermostat.

1st generation is $168.30 at Lowes in Wilkes Barre, Pa. YMMV.



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