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Why the hell is this so expensive? My cable company provides the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD/8300HD for free...well, almost free. I pay $7-8 a month to rent it, and another $7 to use the service. But still, that is only $90-94 to rent it each year, versus paying $600-800 through Direct TV or whoever.
Evan6ardner said:Why the hell is this so expensive? My cable company provides the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD/8300HD for free...well, almost free. I pay $7-8 a month to rent it, and another $7 to use the service. But still, that is only $90-94 to rent it each year, versus paying $600-800 through Direct TV or whoever.Because Tivo is a company run by masochists and/or idiots. They had a huge lead on the competition with the best comsumer invention since the microwave oven, and were so absolutely clueless in pricing and marketing the hardware and service, that now they're just another voice in the crowd. They're doing a similar thing with HD.
"Duh, let's sell the box for $700, and then charge everyone $12 a month for a directory service that even our loyal customers think should cost next to nothing. We'll all be rich in no time." Not.
If they need to get $600 for the box, they're in big trouble. Otherwise, why don't they pretend their monthly fee is for the hardware - people are used to paying money to rent hardware - and include the "service" for a price people won't complain about, e.g. nothing or a buck or two.
I've had Tivo since day one, absolutely love the interface, and have sold more friends on it than Tivo's non-existent marketing department, but this is ridiculous. Reportedly most of the competing products are crap, so for the moment we're continuing to Tivo SDTV.
But still, that is only $90-94 to rent it each year, versus paying $600-800 through Direct TV or whoever.
It makes no sense at all to use this when you can rent the cable companies box.
This machine (which is very nice) still requires you to pay for the monthly digital cable subscription. Then you get that nice little "monthly" fee to pay Tivo AFTER you paid Tivo to purchase the series 3 unit.
Buying a lifetime sub is not an option. Tivo stopped selling the $300 a year, lifetime sub for any of their machines.
And you will have to rent at least one cable-card from your cable provider to use this with your cable. It will be rent two cable-cards if you wish to use dual-recording feature.
So you pay for montly cable, the Tivo Machine, the Tivo monthly sub, and then the montly rent for two cable cards. GEEZ!
Overall, I have never been able to make any sense of this machine from a consumers / money / value viewpoint.
Still a rip off at this price. Waiting until it hits at least $299. Reduced functionality compared to Tivo2 and a monthly subscription required.
Unfortunately Tivo may eventually go the same way as Replay. There is no doubt its a superior solution to the Cable company DVRs but here is the issue. The average person (i.e. the non techie consumers who make products suceed or fail) see's it as $10 per month for a Cable Co DVR, versus a $650+ box plus $12+ per month plus in some cases $5+ per cable card.
Would like to hear a Tivo finance guy explain the successful business model behind that
If you'd ever actually used BOTH and Tivo and a cable company box you may be willing to pay a premium for the better product. Sure Joe Six Pack and the masses may never adopt it and Tivo might be doomed. But, it's the best product out there right now for HD and I'm willing to pay for it.
If you'd ever actually used BOTH and Tivo and a cable company box you may be willing to pay a premium for the better product. Sure Joe Six Pack and the masses may never adopt it and Tivo might be doomed. But, it's the best product out there right now for HD and I'm willing to pay for it.
I actually own a Tivo, a Replay, Beyond TV, MSFT Media Server, Media MVP, Archos DVR and a HD Cable Company DVR so i think i have an fairly unbiased opinion.
I certainly dont mind paying a premium for a better product but outgoings over $900 over 12 months to run a Tivo 3 versus $120 for the Cable DVR is one hell of a premium to justify. And unless Tivo enables at the least the Tivo To Go and external SATA functionality they are no where close to making that premium worth it in my opinion.
Dont forget we are in the Hot Deals forum where we discuss whether something is a Hot deal or not! A Ferrari may be considered one of the best sports cars out there but that doesnt necessarily make it a hot deal.
Also you agree that Tivo may be doomed, therefore buying a Tivo 3 may be a sunk investment which reduces the viability of this being a hot deal.
nynate said: I actually own a Tivo, a Replay, Beyond TV, MSFT Media Server, Media MVP, Archos DVR and a HD Cable Company DVR so i think i have an fairly unbiased opinion.
I certainly dont mind paying a premium for a better product but outgoings over $900 over 12 months to run a Tivo 3 versus $120 for the Cable DVR is one hell of a premium to justify.
You clim to be unbiased, but as an owner of one Tivo, this second one would be eligible for Multi Service Discount and your math is WAY off. Why compare the annual cost, when you should instead compare it over a number of years?
Say $637 from this Sparco place (I wouldn't buy from them, I'd pik Costco and pay tax, but that's just me) plus 6.95x36 for service fee for 3 years = 887.68, i.e. $25 a month if you ONLY use it for 3 years!
You could chose to drop cable entirely, or simplify your package, you'd also at least save on digital outlet and box fees, and with Comcast, each CableCard would cost only under $2 per month, even IF you decide to retain your ENTIRE programming package as you have it now. So you'd save 9.95 (DVR charge) plus around $6 (digital outlet charge) per month.
25 - 10 - 6 + 2 = 11. For $11 extra a month for 3 years, you would have a vastly superior and continuously evolving/improving HD DVR for cable.
I did the math, and it was an absolute no-brainer. In fact, as soon as Tivo releases a version of code with MRV (if not TTG) enabled between S3 boxes, I'm buying a second S3 and selling my last SD TiVos
tishoo said:nynate said: I actually own a Tivo, a Replay, Beyond TV, MSFT Media Server, Media MVP, Archos DVR and a HD Cable Company DVR so i think i have an fairly unbiased opinion.
I certainly dont mind paying a premium for a better product but outgoings over $900 over 12 months to run a Tivo 3 versus $120 for the Cable DVR is one hell of a premium to justify.
You clim to be unbiased, but as an owner of one Tivo, this second one would be eligible for Multi Service Discount and your math is WAY off. Why compare the annual cost, when you should instead compare it over a number of years?
Say $637 from this Sparco place (I wouldn't buy from them, I'd pik Costco and pay tax, but that's just me) plus 6.95x36 for service fee for 3 years = 887.68, i.e. $25 a month if you ONLY use it for 3 years!
You could chose to drop cable entirely, or simplify your package, you'd also at least save on digital outlet and box fees, and with Comcast, each CableCard would cost only under $2 per month, even IF you decide to retain your ENTIRE programming package as you have it now. So you'd save 9.95 (DVR charge) plus around $6 (digital outlet charge) per month.
25 - 10 - 6 + 2 = 11. For $11 extra a month for 3 years, you would have a vastly superior and continuously evolving/improving HD DVR for cable.
I did the math, and it was an absolute no-brainer. In fact, as soon as Tivo releases a version of code with MRV (if not TTG) enabled between S3 boxes, I'm buying a second S3 and selling my last SD TiVos
I agree over 3 years is a much better representation. But unfortunately with Cablevision there would be a $5/month charge for each cable card. Also you cannot assume that everyone will have a multi service discount so you have to account for a standard monthly Tivo service charge since that is what most people will have. If i were to buy an S3 i would drop my S2 since i have a lifetime subscription Replay and other solutions to record standard definition. Additionally if you are to account for a multi service discount you need to account for the value and monthly subscription of the other box over three years in the calculation (versus the cost of 2 cable DVR's off course). So not so much of a no brainer as you might think.
Finally, i wouldnt assume that TTG and the external SATA functions will be enabled. If you read the Tivo press and rumors there are some cablecard industry factors that may prevent them from introducing such functionality for high def recordings.
Evan6ardner said:Why the hell is this so expensive? My cable company provides the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD/8300HD for free...well, almost free. I pay $7-8 a month to rent it, and another $7 to use the service. But still, that is only $90-94 to rent it each year, versus paying $600-800 through Direct TV or whoever.
That was my first thought when I read the thread title!
tishoo said:nynate said: I actually own a Tivo, a Replay, Beyond TV, MSFT Media Server, Media MVP, Archos DVR and a HD Cable Company DVR so i think i have an fairly unbiased opinion.
I certainly dont mind paying a premium for a better product but outgoings over $900 over 12 months to run a Tivo 3 versus $120 for the Cable DVR is one hell of a premium to justify.
You clim to be unbiased, but as an owner of one Tivo, this second one would be eligible for Multi Service Discount and your math is WAY off. Why compare the annual cost, when you should instead compare it over a number of years?
Say $637 from this Sparco place (I wouldn't buy from them, I'd pik Costco and pay tax, but that's just me) plus 6.95x36 for service fee for 3 years = 887.68, i.e. $25 a month if you ONLY use it for 3 years!
You could chose to drop cable entirely, or simplify your package, you'd also at least save on digital outlet and box fees, and with Comcast, each CableCard would cost only under $2 per month, even IF you decide to retain your ENTIRE programming package as you have it now. So you'd save 9.95 (DVR charge) plus around $6 (digital outlet charge) per month.
25 - 10 - 6 + 2 = 11. For $11 extra a month for 3 years, you would have a vastly superior and continuously evolving/improving HD DVR for cable.
I did the math, and it was an absolute no-brainer. In fact, as soon as Tivo releases a version of code with MRV (if not TTG) enabled between S3 boxes, I'm buying a second S3 and selling my last SD TiVos Vastly superior - well, I don't think so. I have both Tivo and Comcast HD DVR, there are pros and cons for both, honestly for pure ease of use due to the integration with the cable service the Comcast DVR is superior to using Tivo - just my opinion.
If you'd ever actually used BOTH and Tivo and a cable company box you may be willing to pay a premium for the better product. Sure Joe Six Pack and the masses may never adopt it and Tivo might be doomed. But, it's the best product out there right now for HD and I'm willing to pay for it.
I've had both and while Tivo's OS has a better response time than Charter's Moxi, I'm not paying $600 for something I get for free here.
The person that said Tivo has "no clue" is right on. They ought to GIVE away their devices and parter with Google for the purpose of putting some eye appealing advertising in the screens.
I got the verizon FIOS HD DVR. Although it is a little slow and cumbersome to use, it gets the job done. It has dual tuners as well and only costs $4/month extra. I would love an HD Tivo, but the price is crazy.
Man, no Tivo love. I recently got an s3 (Amazon + AMEX wc made it bearable) and am really happy with it. I did have lifetime and transferred it, otherwise I most likely never would have made the plunge.
I've used CC dvr's and for me there is no comparison in terms of ease of use and dependency (I had a lot of 'missed' recordings with my cc dvr), but you will pay a premium for it. I'm out about $750 + 3.95 a month for two cable cards, vs the 12.95 a month for cc hd-dvr (which was also single tuner).
I am banking the lifetime will make it a valuable sell down the road, assuming they don't go under, etc...
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