Willie67 said:GMaxx said:I'm a newbie too when it comes to dslr.

I've got this camera on my list and will be purchasing a dslr soon.

I wanted to get everybody's advice on this camera against the Nikon d60 and Olympus E-520.

I want the camera to take nice shots without really having to play too much with the settings. I really don't anticipate buying anymore lenses then the one that comes with the camera. My budget is about $700-$900.

Please give your thoughts as to which one you think is better for my purposes.

TIA.

GMaxx

If that's all you're looking for in a camera, then DSLR is not for you. Buy a nice P&S. You'll be much happier.

I couldn't disagree more. The pics you get with a good entry level DSLR right out of the box on full auto mode will blow away any pics from a P&S. You don't have to want to devote your life to photography in order to want to take better pics than a P&S.

This is really a good price...so kudos for the OP...HOT deal IMHO. I've owned an XTi, then a 30D and now a 40D. I don't like the size of the 400/450 XTi/XSi models but in reality, that's about it...I can snif about the AF system but I don't care too since I use manual focus a lot and I can't remember noticing a difference between my XTi and 30/40D.

As for glass...IT'S NOT EASY TO KNOW WHAT'S GOOD OR WHAT ISN'T GOOD, until you understand what you like to shoot and in reality even if you think you might light to shoot portraits, you could be like me...I bought the Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM lens for portraits...barely used it, borrowed a Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro lens and fell in love with macro...so you never know.

I would check this place out is a very nice condensed compiliation of lens photo samples and some reviews.

Cheers,
Lex

halo0 said:I couldn't disagree more. The pics you get with a good entry level DSLR right out of the box on full auto mode will blow away any pics from a P&S. You don't have to want to devote your life to photography in order to want to take better pics than a P&S.

No they won't. You're quite wrong. There will be little to no difference in picture quality at ISOs below 400 between, say, a G9 and 40D. Actually, due to the amount of post-processing the G9 will do in camera, the G9 will look better than a 40D.

Focusing is much, much harder on a DSLR. Plus they're way bigger and heavier. Getting a good picture out of a DSLR takes a lot more work than a P&S. A lot of people new to DSLRs spend their first few days wondering why they suddenly can't take a decent picture.

jonnythan said:halo0 said:I couldn't disagree more. The pics you get with a good entry level DSLR right out of the box on full auto mode will blow away any pics from a P&S. You don't have to want to devote your life to photography in order to want to take better pics than a P&S.

No they won't. You're quite wrong. There will be little to no difference in picture quality at ISOs below 400 between, say, a G9 and 40D. Actually, due to the amount of post-processing the G9 will do in camera, the G9 will look better than a 40D.

Focusing is much, much harder on a DSLR. Plus they're way bigger and heavier. Getting a good picture out of a DSLR takes a lot more work than a P&S. A lot of people new to DSLRs spend their first few days wondering why they suddenly can't take a decent picture.

Speak for yourself, as I'm afraid I'm quite right. I owned nothing put point and shoots up until about 2 or 3 weeks ago when I picked up the XSi kit. Within a weekend of practice I had photos that blow away the P&S photos I had been used to for the past several years. I just ordered my first prime lens 2 days ago.

I also respectfully disagree that focusing is "much much harder". Where do you get that from? I don't find focusing any more difficult than a point and shoot. In fact, since I can specify which of the 11 AF points I want to use, it's much easier to frame the shot with the focus I want.

erdong77 said:With good light, it may be true.

However, PS is simply blown away in dim light by DSLR in terms of focusing, images, etc. In low light, xsi, coupled with a 50/1.8, simply will beat any PS, however good it is, by far.

I agree with this.. but in fairness I haven't tried a G9, which seems in between a dslr and a point and shoot. I recently bought my wife a canon sd870.. With all the great reviews I figured what the heck, to replace an older digital elph canon P+S for her. Anyway.. I was taking pictures one night and I'm sorry, but low light/indoor lighting/no flash, the pictures look like s**t. I think it largely boils down to the lens and perhaps the image sensor? Bright lighting comes out fine, but with the iso bumped up, the pictures get VERY grainy/noisy in a hurry. Considering the lenses tend to be "slow" on the P+S's, a higher iso is "needed." I was shooting some photos at iso 400, and they came out grainy. Compared to my dslr, iso 800, and they still look very good. The "slow" lenses/cheap glass I think are a big culprit.

On my old XTI when I first got it, I started by shooting in the preset auto modes. Honestly, the pictures looked far and away better than the sd870, and that was with the "crappy" kit lens. Since then I've moved onto a new body and lenses, and of course the difference is amazing (but that's not a fair comparison). Anyway, for those starting out with dslr's, you can happily use the auto modes and take good pictures.

Dealguy123 said: The "slow" lenses/cheap glass I think are a big culprit.

It's not that the glass is slow. The lens on a SD1000 (an Elph!) goes from f/2.8 - 4.9, which is better than the 18-55mm IS that comes with the XSi.

The problem is sensor size. The sensor on an average Nikon or Canon "1.6 crop" DSLR is APS-C, or around 22 mm x 15 mm. The sensor on a typical P&S is around 7 mm x 5 mm, yet they have just as many pixels. Cramming that many pixels into a space about 1/10 the size means much more noise. ISO 400 on the best P&S is significantly worse than ISO 1600 on the cheapest DSLR as a result.

Curiously, I can hardly believe a super compact camera, such as SD1000, can have F2.8 lens. When we talk about F2.8 in SD1000, is it the same thing as the aperture in 24-70 F2.8L?

I simply do not believe it. Otherwise, even the small SD1000 can have very shallow DOF, and will work like a champ in dim light. That does not sound like true.
Willie67 said:erdong77 said:With good light, it may be true.

However, PS is simply blown away in dim light by DSLR in terms of focusing, images, etc. In low light, xsi, coupled with a 50/1.8, simply will beat any PS, however good it is, by far.


jonnythan said:halo0 said:I couldn't disagree more. The pics you get with a good entry level DSLR right out of the box on full auto mode will blow away any pics from a P&S. You don't have to want to devote your life to photography in order to want to take better pics than a P&S.

No they won't. You're quite wrong. There will be little to no difference in picture quality at ISOs below 400 between, say, a G9 and 40D. Actually, due to the amount of post-processing the G9 will do in camera, the G9 will look better than a 40D.

Focusing is much, much harder on a DSLR. Plus they're way bigger and heavier. Getting a good picture out of a DSLR takes a lot more work than a P&S. A lot of people new to DSLRs spend their first few days wondering why they suddenly can't take a decent picture.

The person said they would not want to buy any more lenses, so the 50 1.8 is not an option.

I owned a severl generations ago Canon S30, got a great 8X10 from 3.2 MP camera, still own a G5, and own XT. Like Johnnythan said, going from P&S to DSLR was a learning curve.

For people who don't want to play with settings, like the person said, they are better off with P&S.

erdong77 said:Curiously, I can hardly believe a super compact camera, such as SD1000, can have F2.8 lens. When we talk about F2.8 in SD1000, is it the same thing as the aperture in 24-70 F2.8L?

I simply do not believe it. Otherwise, even the small SD1000 can have very shallow DOF, and will work like a champ in dim light. That does not sound like true.
Willie67 said:erdong77 said:With good light, it may be true.

However, PS is simply blown away in dim light by DSLR in terms of focusing, images, etc. In low light, xsi, coupled with a 50/1.8, simply will beat any PS, however good it is, by far.


jonnythan said:halo0 said:I couldn't disagree more. The pics you get with a good entry level DSLR right out of the box on full auto mode will blow away any pics from a P&S. You don't have to want to devote your life to photography in order to want to take better pics than a P&S.

No they won't. You're quite wrong. There will be little to no difference in picture quality at ISOs below 400 between, say, a G9 and 40D. Actually, due to the amount of post-processing the G9 will do in camera, the G9 will look better than a 40D.

Focusing is much, much harder on a DSLR. Plus they're way bigger and heavier. Getting a good picture out of a DSLR takes a lot more work than a P&S. A lot of people new to DSLRs spend their first few days wondering why they suddenly can't take a decent picture.

The person said they would not want to buy any more lenses, so the 50 1.8 is not an option.

I owned a severl generations ago Canon S30, got a great 8X10 from 3.2 MP camera, still own a G5, and own XT. Like Johnnythan said, going from P&S to DSLR was a learning curve.

For people who don't want to play with settings, like the person said, they are better off with P&S.

The F number is a RATIO. It's the expression of the aperture size in relationship to the focal length of the lens. If you shrink the aperture and the focal length by the same amount the F number will be the same. The camera is obviously still gathering much less light though, look at the size of the lens...

i checked it from J&R but im having a second thought as the description does not mentioned about IS lens. Can anybody confirm the actual lens received from J&R if this is indeed IS(image stabilizer) or not?

Thanks

I am quite hesitant on this because in the J&R description does not mention that lens is IS(image stabilizer). Original from Canon should be IS lens. Even the description in windows live is IS lens. Is anyone can confirm the received product ordered from J&R?

J&R description:
Includes EF-S 18-55mm Standard Zoom Lens / Compatible with EF and EF-S lenses / 3" TFT Color LCD / PictBridge / SD and SDHC Memory Card Slot / 9 AF points