This $4500 incentive is direct from BMW against the purchase price of the vehicle. Purchase only. Not for leasing. Not to be confused with the "Cash For Clunker" program from the government.
335d has 425lb/ft of torque from diesel. More than a Ferrari F430, Corvette, BMW M3 and M5! Plus 23 City / 36 Highway mpg to boot.
"Now through August 31, BMW will give you a $4,500 Eco Credit toward your purchase of a 335d or an X5 xDrive35d - the most fuel-efficient vehicles in their class.
But the savings go beyond this limited-time offer. You'll also receive a $900 tax credit on the 335d and $1,800 on the X5 xDrive35d. And like any BMW, both diesel vehicles come with 4 years/50,000 miles of zero-cost maintenance. Plus, its best-in-class efficiency will save you approximately $2,000 in fuel costs over four years."
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posted: Jul. 22, 2009 @ 10:25p
HuntsBargains
Member
posted: Jul. 22, 2009 @ 10:43p
The "Cash for Clunker" program is only valid for cars that have an MSRP of $45,000 or less. Only the 335d would qualify if purchased without any options.
I used to own a 3 series BMW. It was a nice car but hardly worth 2x the price of a Japanese model. If I had $50K to spare I think I'd find something other than a diesel 3 series to spend it on.
LongDongSilver said: Motor Trend got it wrong Maybe I'm being pedantic but the MT article says: "The figure 425 pound-feet at 1750 rpm doesn't seem that impressive on its own in this horsepower-war age," opines Ougarov. "But in the context that there's more low-end torque in this sedan than in a Corvette Z06..." The key word being "low end" here. The Corvette doesn't see 470 ft lbs until 4800rpm.
RickySteve
Member
posted: Jul. 23, 2009 @ 1:18a
MuthaFaker said: LongDongSilver said: TellyTubby said: If I had $50K to spare I think I'd find something other than a diesel 3 series to spend it on.
This car should be in the upper $30k with the incentive plus negotiation with dealer.
Do they still run the 0.9% financing? This along with the low financing would be awesome. I think the 335d runs only slightly slower than the 335i. I have the 335i and it runs like a champ.
MuthaFaker said: LongDongSilver said: TellyTubby said: If I had $50K to spare I think I'd find something other than a diesel 3 series to spend it on.
This car should be in the upper $30k with the incentive plus negotiation with dealer.
No one buys a bimmer without any options except for posers
I priced mine at $44k invoice with Sport Package, Paddle Shift and Cold Weather Package. It's no "stripper". So it comes in under $40k with the incentive and some negotiation. Definitely doable especially when BMW is hurting right now with the economy in the dumpster. They are very hungry for business. The key to a good deal is to find the car on the dealer's lot and go from there.
xxazndimsumxx said: Do they still run the 0.9% financing? This along with the low financing would be awesome. I think the 335d runs only slightly slower than the 335i. I have the 335i and it runs like a champ.
0-60 in 6 secs is no slouch, but it's an entirely different league than the sub-5 second figure of the 335i.
For comparison, 6 seconds is about the same time as a Camry V6, the sub-5 is the same as a Nissan 370Z.
HappyScrappyHeroPup said: xxazndimsumxx said: Do they still run the 0.9% financing? This along with the low financing would be awesome. I think the 335d runs only slightly slower than the 335i. I have the 335i and it runs like a champ.
0-60 in 6 secs is no slouch, but it's an entirely different league than the sub-5 second figure of the 335i.
For comparison, 6 seconds is about the same time as a Camry V6, the sub-5 is the same as a Nissan 370Z. Didn't know the 335d was that slow. I think the 335i can do an even 5 or high 4's in the 0-60. There's a drag times listing with most 335i's hittin 4.8s.
nosatalian
Senior Member
posted: Jul. 23, 2009 @ 1:48a
I don't understand why people would want diesel for this? The mileage is only slightly better, and at least in California diesel is WAY more expensive than premium- so what are you saving here? I seem to remember a time when diesel was as cheap or cheaper than normal unleaded, but I think the scarcity of light petroleum (most new finds are heavy, which costs more to make into diesel than gasoline) and taxes which target diesel make it not a very good option for a car anymore.
I've heard that diesel engines are usually more reliable due to their simpler nature- is that the key benefit then?
dtmamg
Member
posted: Jul. 23, 2009 @ 1:51a
nosatalian said: I don't understand why people would want diesel for this? The mileage is only slightly better, and at least in California diesel is WAY more expensive than premium- so what are you saving here? I seem to remember a time when diesel was as cheap or cheaper than normal unleaded, but I think the scarcity of light petroleum (most new finds are heavy, which costs more to make into diesel than gasoline) and taxes which target diesel make it not a very good option for a car anymore.
I've heard that diesel engines are usually more reliable due to their simpler nature- is that the key benefit then?
that is why most cali(esp socal dealers) rarely orders diesel vehicles..
nosatalian said: I don't understand why people would want diesel for this? The mileage is only slightly better, and at least in California diesel is WAY more expensive than premium- so what are you saving here? I seem to remember a time when diesel was as cheap or cheaper than normal unleaded, but I think the scarcity of light petroleum (most new finds are heavy, which costs more to make into diesel than gasoline) and taxes which target diesel make it not a very good option for a car anymore.
I've heard that diesel engines are usually more reliable due to their simpler nature- is that the key benefit then?
How much of a difference are you looking for? It gets about 36mpg hwy. And my local gas stations have Diesel about 10 cents/gal cheaper than premium, which is what all other BMW's use.
0-60 in 6 secs is no slouch, but it's an entirely different league than the sub-5 second figure of the 335i.
For comparison, 6 seconds is about the same time as a Camry V6, the sub-5 is the same as a Nissan 370Z.
You need to do some more reading. The 335D is basically as fast as a 335i (twin turbo gas engine). This has been compared in a straight line and around a track. The 335 is no sub 5 second 0-60 car. The M3 is but not the 335 stock. Both the 335i and 335D are sub 6 second 0-60 cars stock.
nosatalian
Senior Member
posted: Jul. 23, 2009 @ 2:06a
So by me, right now apparently:
Regular: 2.73 Midgrade: 2.83 (btw, what cars actually require midgrade? all of mine are either regular or premium) Premium: 2.95 Diesel: 2.75
Back in Colorado Regular:2.27 Midgrade:2.47 Premium:2.59 Diesel:2.49
So Diesel is actually less than premium in both places now (these are cheapest prices) although I swear that I often see really high diesel prices when I'm driving around.
Interestingly, although gas is cheaper in Colorado, the difference in price between regular and premium is 50% more there.
nosatalian said: I don't understand why people would want diesel for this? The mileage is only slightly better, and at least in California diesel is WAY more expensive than premium- so what are you saving here?Where are you located? Most of the gas stations I've seen in the IE and OC tend to have diesel cheaper than premium, most of the time cheaper than regular.
nosatalian said: I don't understand why people would want diesel for this? The mileage is only slightly better, and at least in California diesel is WAY more expensive than premium- so what are you saving here? I seem to remember a time when diesel was as cheap or cheaper than normal unleaded, but I think the scarcity of light petroleum (most new finds are heavy, which costs more to make into diesel than gasoline) and taxes which target diesel make it not a very good option for a car anymore.
I've heard that diesel engines are usually more reliable due to their simpler nature- is that the key benefit then?
Are you smoking crack? In Orange County Premium is $3.00ish a gallon. Diesel is $2.59 in Irvine.
both cars are pretty fun the petrol and TDI when you chip them be sure to stop by the dinan shop
for some reason the gas car seems more fun to rev out
but let's be serious these go to 0.0mpg when you floor them for a 1/4 mile any gas savings is probably at cruising speed and idle not at WOT.
now throw some propane on that 335d and you'd have a real bit of fun!
SoftwareLite
New Member
posted: Jul. 23, 2009 @ 7:16a
You have to be aware that the diesel has tremendous torque, but its only at low rpm. This is one of the reason large trucks use diesel, and have many more gears (to get the torque at low rpm). So the torque is somewhat misleading because it is not useful for passing a car in the fast lane.
Other facts you should know:
Diesel engine produces a lot of carbon, that means the oil collects a lot of it, so you need to change oil often (3,000 miles should do it, but don't try to stretch it).
There might be an oil filter and a water catcher near it. you need to drain the water regularly, or it will ruin the injectors and fuel pump. The new ones might not have it, and the fuel may be cleaner these days.
In New England most states up here now tax diesel, they did not in the 80'x and 90's. So the prices sometimes is 30% higher than regular gasoline. Most of the savings in mph is wiped out here.
They do not perform as well as a gasoline engine, however, the turbo they put in helps. However, turbos have issues of their own. Look and see how many turbo engines are these days compared to 15 years ago.
On the positive side, if you maintain the car well, it will last double or triple a gas engine (turbo part excluded in this comparison). Mine lasted 629,000+ miles. I got rid of it when the first clutch went.
I looked at this car in Feb this year before I got my 335i, please note that this car uses Ammonia to clean the fumes before releasing them out and the holding tank is beneath the rear bumper. This tank needs to be filled when it gets empty....just a little more maintainance after the initial 4 years and a lot more problems when you get rear-ended.
drrck
Member
posted: Jul. 23, 2009 @ 7:30a
I drive a VW Jetta TDI, and the maintenance table requires an oil change every 10,000 miles. Modern diesel engines utilize specialized full synthetic oils that are designed to keep a large amount of soot in suspension. I'd be surprised if you had to change the oil every 3K in a BMW. For what its worth I get 48 MPG.
drrck
Member
posted: Jul. 23, 2009 @ 7:34a
They are also engineered to withstand the higher compression ratios necessary for compression ignition. With the 2009 and upcoming new emissions standards many diesels are becoming more complex than their petrol counterparts, especially with respect to the after-treatment solutions used to remove particulate matter.
I definitely think this is a fine vehicle for those who can stand diesels; I can't, but that's just a personal preference. Its performance is excellent, and I am sad to see that it is not selling well to the point that BMW is having to offer special deals to move it. I think we need more vehicles like this on the market. The last thing we need is for manufacturers to think that people don't care about performance and fuel economy in the same breath. Honda got that impression with the Accord Hybrid and that car was discontinued. I thought it was a wonderful idea when I first heard about the 335d, and with some perspective it's impressive what this car is capable of in terms of performance and fuel economy.
the killer here in georgia is the diesel is an oily gas. the pumps are nasty. the ground is nasty where they spill.
do you want your nice clothes (try to explain that to wife wearing $100 dress or nice shoes)??
This is not how it is in europe. They keep them tidy.
It will be a hard sell. gasoline evaporates quickly without much residue.
you could ruin a nice pair of business shoes or a suit or (suit dress); several hundred down the drain; there goes your YTD gain from mpg.
that is the main PAIN for diesel in the usa (specifically GA) that i'm seeing.
335i btw does oil changes around 15K miles so you don't have to waste that much time to service the car. drop it off and make them give you a ride to/from work. works out great maybe once a year. The milage is dynamic based on driving habits. The more gas that is exposed to the oil has a huge effect on this 15K. (ie driving 2 miles to work not fully heating the motor; or laying on the boost all the time) will reduce the 15K greatly however bmw has always had a system that calculates the ideal oil change and recommends when you need to service the car.
most folks lease bmw's so they don't worry about longevity
While i love the 400ft/lb from the 335i (dinan stage 2) i will have to test drive a diesel to see if its as peppy on the top end. I'm not an ice road trucker so i like the rev's to come quickly when i need them.
Ignore this entire post unless you plan on getting into a time machine and dealing with a GM diesel from the 70s.
SoftwareLite said: You have to be aware that the diesel has tremendous torque, but its only at low rpm. This is one of the reason large trucks use diesel, and have many more gears (to get the torque at low rpm). So the torque is somewhat misleading because it is not useful for passing a car in the fast lane.
Other facts you should know:
Diesel engine produces a lot of carbon, that means the oil collects a lot of it, so you need to change oil often (3,000 miles should do it, but don't try to stretch it).
There might be an oil filter and a water catcher near it. you need to drain the water regularly, or it will ruin the injectors and fuel pump. The new ones might not have it, and the fuel may be cleaner these days.
In New England most states up here now tax diesel, they did not in the 80'x and 90's. So the prices sometimes is 30% higher than regular gasoline. Most of the savings in mph is wiped out here.
They do not perform as well as a gasoline engine, however, the turbo they put in helps. However, turbos have issues of their own. Look and see how many turbo engines are these days compared to 15 years ago.
On the positive side, if you maintain the car well, it will last double or triple a gas engine (turbo part excluded in this comparison). Mine lasted 629,000+ miles. I got rid of it when the first clutch went.
1) The flat torque curve is absolutely great for passing a vehicle. It means you rarely have to downshift. You can floor a TDI in 5th gear and have it take off just as well no matter where it is in the RPM band. A gasoline engine of the same displacement you're usually going to have to downshift to get that extra kick.
2) NO NO NO. You DO NOT have to change the oil more often. Yes. Your oil will turn black within 30 seconds of it running, but diesel oil is designed to take it. My 1998 VW TDI has an oil change interval of 10k miles. The 335d has a specified OCI of 15k miles. Europe, using full synthetics, and driving cycles that are mainly highway can extend this up to 30k miles.
3) The water catchers are primarily built into the fuel filter. The '79-early 90's VW IDIs had their water separator in the rear under the tank. The newest VW TDIs don't have any way of draining this (you just replace the filter). However unless you insist on filling up at Low Bob's Fuel that has 1 Diesel Pump and it's way in back and doesn't look like it's ever been used, you shouldn't have a problem. Watch where the Semi's or Farmers fill up, the diesel fuel gets cycled there much more often.
4) You should be smart enough to look at diesel prices in your area on your own. It'll be slightly higher in the winter when fuel oil is being produced.
5) I guess I don't understand the definition of "perform as well". My 1.9L TDI does just as good and better than the 2.0L counterpart VW put in the exact same model. The 2.0L feels anemic. I can punch the TDI in any gear at any RPM and have it take off.
5a) Turbos are fine. Mine's spinning great at 225k. I'm considering replacing it only for performance reasons. There areplenty of companies that use turbos. They easily go 100k or the equivalent number of hours hours in off highway equipment. There are really only 2 major turbo suppliers in the world: Honeywell & Borg-Warner. Almost everyone buys from them. (IIRC BMW 335d uses Borg).
In addition, diesels tune VERY well. Mostly because the lower end engines use the exact same components as the high end ones. It's cheaper for a company to build 1 engine block, piston, etc and use it in 4 ratings of engines than build 4. (This is the same thing that AMD and Intel do with their chips). Plus the engines are built quite a bit more hardy. With some over clocking I bet you could get an easy 50hp/50ft-lbs, if not quite a bit more.
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