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kamalktk said:   bighitter said:   I can't wait to see Carly Fiorina debate Hillary Clinton.  The contrast between Carly's experience (based upon her life running a Fortune 500 company in the private sector...)
  you forgot "into the ground".

Are you really blaming her for the post 9/11 recession?

rated:
scrouds said:   kamalktk said:   bighitter said:   I can't wait to see Carly Fiorina debate Hillary Clinton.  The contrast between Carly's experience (based upon her life running a Fortune 500 company in the private sector...)
  you forgot "into the ground".

Are you really blaming her for the post 9/11 recession?

Look at the picture again. Down there by her name it shows HP's performance vs the S&P's performance over the same time frame.

rated:
kamalktk said:   
scrouds said:   
kamalktk said:   
bighitter said:   I can't wait to see Carly Fiorina debate Hillary Clinton.  The contrast between Carly's experience (based upon her life running a Fortune 500 company in the private sector...)
  you forgot "into the ground".

Are you really blaming her for the post 9/11 recession?

Look at the picture again. Down there by her name it shows HP's performance vs the S&P's performance over the same time frame.

  
Waaaay back when I graduated, if you wanted to work in tech R&D, for a company threw money at their R&D depts, you had 2 major choices - IBM or HP.  That is no longer true for HP, Carly Fiorina stopped that, HP no longer innovate, they just obsess about the next quarter's numbers for Wall St.  It's very sad, H & P must be spinning in their graves.

ETA: and DEC but they're long gone

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To be completely fair if you are going to compare stock prices it should be to competitors, that was a notoriously tough time for PC manufacturers. Of course even then Fiorina still has a pretty bad record.

"The bottom line is that HP’s stock declined some 50% during Fiorina’s tenure while the overall market, as measured by the S&P 500, fell 7% (according to FactSet cumulative return data). And how about HP’s cohort? How did they perform in that time frame? The answer is not as badly or much better. IBM (IBM) was off 27%, while archrival Dell was roughly flat. HP’s chief printer competitor, Lexmark was up 30%. Apple (AAPL), well into the Steve Jobs renaissance—he came back to the company in July of 1997, exactly two years before Fiorina arrived at HP—saw its stock triple in those five-and-a-half years."

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John Bolton has declined to enter the clown car .  This makes me sad, his exciting foreign policy of peace through war would have made a nice addition to the debates.

rated:
kamalktk said:   
scrouds said:   
kamalktk said:   
bighitter said:   I can't wait to see Carly Fiorina debate Hillary Clinton.  The contrast between Carly's experience (based upon her life running a Fortune 500 company in the private sector...)
  you forgot "into the ground".

Are you really blaming her for the post 9/11 recession?

Look at the picture again. Down there by her name it shows HP's performance vs the S&P's performance over the same time frame.

Yes, Fiorina's decision to buy Compaq was poor timing.  I owned HP stock at the time and all tech stocks were hit hard after the dot.com crash.   Comparing HP's stock performance during the period to the S&P is a stretch of logic, although many on the left are attempting to use that tactic to discredit Fiorina..  It might interest you to know that after the dot.com crash,  "The NASDAQ subsequently lost nearly 80% and the S&P 500 lost 50% to reach the October 2002 lows." -- source wikipedia. 

On the other hand, if we examine Fiorina's poorly timed decision to buy Compaq versus Hillary's poor decisions  regarding the attacks on Benghazi, her private email server, acceptance of donations to the Clinton Foundation, yada yada, Fiorina's purchase mistake doesn't look that bad.  And, at least Fiorina's mistake was an "honest" business miscalculation and she didn't feel the need to hide her emails to cover it up.

I doubt Fiorina will win the Republican nomination but nevertheless I am looking forward to the entertainment of the debates with Hillary (assuming that Hillary is willing to show up) 

rated:
bighitter said:   
kamalktk said:   
scrouds said:   
kamalktk said:   
bighitter said:   I can't wait to see Carly Fiorina debate Hillary Clinton.  The contrast between Carly's experience (based upon her life running a Fortune 500 company in the private sector...)
  you forgot "into the ground".

Are you really blaming her for the post 9/11 recession?

Look at the picture again. Down there by her name it shows HP's performance vs the S&P's performance over the same time frame.

Yes, Fiorina's decision to buy Compaq was poor timing.  I owned HP stock at the time and all tech stocks were hit hard after the dot.com crash.   Comparing HP's stock performance during the period to the S&P is a stretch of logic, although many on the left are attempting to use that tactic to discredit Fiorina..  It might interest you to know that after the dot.com crash,  "The NASDAQ subsequently lost nearly 80% and the S&P 500 lost 50% to reach the October 2002 lows." -- source wikipedia.

  link on the performance of cohort companies, but of course you already read that post...

I'll tldr for you, HP did even worse vs their tech competitors than they did vs the broader S&P during her leadership. She was absolutely terrible.

If you want to have a CEO run, just about anybody did the CEO job better than her.

rated:
kamalktk said:   
bighitter said:   
kamalktk said:   
scrouds said:   
kamalktk said:   
bighitter said:   I can't wait to see Carly Fiorina debate Hillary Clinton.  The contrast between Carly's experience (based upon her life running a Fortune 500 company in the private sector...)
  you forgot "into the ground".

Are you really blaming her for the post 9/11 recession?

Look at the picture again. Down there by her name it shows HP's performance vs the S&P's performance over the same time frame.

Yes, Fiorina's decision to buy Compaq was poor timing.  I owned HP stock at the time and all tech stocks were hit hard after the dot.com crash.   Comparing HP's stock performance during the period to the S&P is a stretch of logic, although many on the left are attempting to use that tactic to discredit Fiorina..  It might interest you to know that after the dot.com crash,  "The NASDAQ subsequently lost nearly 80% and the S&P 500 lost 50% to reach the October 2002 lows." -- source wikipedia.

  link on the performance of cohort companies, but of course you already read that post...

I'll tldr for you, HP did even worse vs their tech competitors than they did vs the broader S&P during her leadership. She was absolutely terrible

If you want to have a CEO run, just about anybody did the CEO job better than her.

Okay -- you apparently think that Fiorina would do a poor job as president, right?   Do you think Hillary is a good candidate?  

rated:
kamalktk said:   
bighitter said:   
kamalktk said:   
scrouds said:   
kamalktk said:   
bighitter said:   I can't wait to see Carly Fiorina debate Hillary Clinton.  The contrast between Carly's experience (based upon her life running a Fortune 500 company in the private sector...)
  you forgot "into the ground".

Are you really blaming her for the post 9/11 recession?

Look at the picture again. Down there by her name it shows HP's performance vs the S&P's performance over the same time frame.

Yes, Fiorina's decision to buy Compaq was poor timing.  I owned HP stock at the time and all tech stocks were hit hard after the dot.com crash.   Comparing HP's stock performance during the period to the S&P is a stretch of logic, although many on the left are attempting to use that tactic to discredit Fiorina..  It might interest you to know that after the dot.com crash,  "The NASDAQ subsequently lost nearly 80% and the S&P 500 lost 50% to reach the October 2002 lows." -- source wikipedia.

  link on the performance of cohort companies, but of course you already read that post...

I'll tldr for you, HP did even worse vs their tech competitors than they did vs the broader S&P during her leadership. She was absolutely terrible

If you want to have a CEO run, just about anybody did the CEO job better than her.

  You have an awfully lot of snark for someone that's trying to pull a fast one with numbers even mr burrito says should be more fairly compared.  Then he gives a good analysis.  

Personally I'd take a bad CEO over someone who's only real skill is spending the public's money, vote for war and says no when we need more security at our embassies.  

But I hope she's not the one that walks out of the clown car.

rated:
JorgeBurrito said:   John Bolton has declined to enter the clown car .  This makes me sad, his exciting foreign policy of peace through war would have made a nice addition to the debates.
  
On the other hand, Michael Bolton just announced!  He made his announcement in fields of gold, with Georgia on his mind.  He has promised a renewed space program, saying fly me to the moon, the second time around.  Before leaving he also spoke briefly on his stance on gay marriage, stating it is when a man loves a woman.

rated:
scrouds said:   
kamalktk said:   
bighitter said:   
kamalktk said:   
scrouds said:   
kamalktk said:   
bighitter said:   I can't wait to see Carly Fiorina debate Hillary Clinton.  The contrast between Carly's experience (based upon her life running a Fortune 500 company in the private sector...)
  you forgot "into the ground".

Are you really blaming her for the post 9/11 recession?

Look at the picture again. Down there by her name it shows HP's performance vs the S&P's performance over the same time frame.

Yes, Fiorina's decision to buy Compaq was poor timing.  I owned HP stock at the time and all tech stocks were hit hard after the dot.com crash.   Comparing HP's stock performance during the period to the S&P is a stretch of logic, although many on the left are attempting to use that tactic to discredit Fiorina..  It might interest you to know that after the dot.com crash,  "The NASDAQ subsequently lost nearly 80% and the S&P 500 lost 50% to reach the October 2002 lows." -- source wikipedia.

  link on the performance of cohort companies, but of course you already read that post...

I'll tldr for you, HP did even worse vs their tech competitors than they did vs the broader S&P during her leadership. She was absolutely terrible

If you want to have a CEO run, just about anybody did the CEO job better than her.

  You have an awfully lot of snark for someone that's trying to pull a fast one with numbers even mr burrito says should be more fairly compared.  Then he gives a good analysis.  

Personally I'd take a bad CEO over someone who's only real skill is spending the public's money, vote for war and says no when we need more security at our embassies.  

But I hope she's not the one that walks out of the clown car.

  Thanks, Scrouds, but Kamalkt’s snark doesn’t bother me.  He is entitled to his opinion.  What does bother me is that he apparently isn’t able (or is unwilling) to respond with a reasoned answer why he thinks Hillary is more qualified than Fiorina.   I posed a similar question to a left leaning friend who responded ,“Yeah, Hillary is probably dishonest but she is the only candidate that we have that can win.”   That statement “dishonest but can win” DOES bother me.  Is the character of the pool of candidates that can win so low that Hillary is the only choice on the left side?  I'm not advocating for Fiorina but another 4 years of Clinton related problems won't be good for the country IMO domestically or internationally

rated:
scrouds said:   Personally I'd take a bad CEO over someone who's only real skill is spending the public's money, vote for war and says no when we need more security at our embassies.  

 

Business skills don't seem to translate into good political skills, probably because CEOs are used to getting things done through command rather than through negotiation, except maybe when the business is really close to the people (military, groceries, labor union), or the CEO once ate a rat.

rated:
scrouds said:   
JorgeBurrito said:   John Bolton has declined to enter the clown car .  This makes me sad, his exciting foreign policy of peace through war would have made a nice addition to the debates.
  
On the other hand, Michael Bolton just announced!  He made his announcement in fields of gold, with Georgia on his mind.  He has promised a renewed space program, saying fly me to the moon, the second time around.  Before leaving he also spoke briefly on his stance on gay marriage, stating it is when a man loves a woman.

  
Show business people have had rather good track records in politics, probably because showbiz is more a meritocracy than most other fields.

rated:
bighitter said:   
scrouds said:   
kamalktk said:   
bighitter said:   
kamalktk said:   
scrouds said:   
kamalktk said:   
bighitter said:   I can't wait to see Carly Fiorina debate Hillary Clinton.  The contrast between Carly's experience (based upon her life running a Fortune 500 company in the private sector...)
  you forgot "into the ground".

Are you really blaming her for the post 9/11 recession?

Look at the picture again. Down there by her name it shows HP's performance vs the S&P's performance over the same time frame.

Yes, Fiorina's decision to buy Compaq was poor timing.  I owned HP stock at the time and all tech stocks were hit hard after the dot.com crash.   Comparing HP's stock performance during the period to the S&P is a stretch of logic, although many on the left are attempting to use that tactic to discredit Fiorina..  It might interest you to know that after the dot.com crash,  "The NASDAQ subsequently lost nearly 80% and the S&P 500 lost 50% to reach the October 2002 lows." -- source wikipedia.

  link on the performance of cohort companies, but of course you already read that post...

I'll tldr for you, HP did even worse vs their tech competitors than they did vs the broader S&P during her leadership. She was absolutely terrible

If you want to have a CEO run, just about anybody did the CEO job better than her.

  You have an awfully lot of snark for someone that's trying to pull a fast one with numbers even mr burrito says should be more fairly compared.  Then he gives a good analysis.  

Personally I'd take a bad CEO over someone who's only real skill is spending the public's money, vote for war and says no when we need more security at our embassies.  

But I hope she's not the one that walks out of the clown car.

  Thanks, Scrouds, but Kamalkt’s snark doesn’t bother me.  He is entitled to his opinion.  What does bother me is that he apparently isn’t able (or is unwilling) to respond with a reasoned answer why he thinks Hillary is more qualified than Fiorina.   I posed a similar question to a left leaning friend who responded ,“Yeah, Hillary is probably dishonest but she is the only candidate that we have that can win.”   That statement “dishonest but can win” DOES bother me.  Is the character of the pool of candidates that can win so low that Hillary is the only choice on the left side?  I'm not advocating for Fiorina but another 4 years of Clinton related problems won't be good for the country IMO domestically or internationally

If you "can't wait to see Fiorina debate Clinton", something that would only happen in the general election, then you are advocating for Fiorina.

The reasoned answer is you want a CEO for President, and Fiorina was one of the worst CEO's of all time (as demonstrated above). Given that, any random manager picked out of a hat would be, on average, a better CEO than Fiorina was. Take a thousand Republican CEO's, they would all be better choices than Fiorina.

If you read back in this thread, you'll see I'm a Republican.

rated:
Without me trying to scroll back on the phone, what's your choice from the clown car kamalktk?

rated:
The Democrat clown car is already full thanks to Hillary.  

Remember, it's important to make fun of and vote against a candidate if they're rich.  Well, unless the candidate is a Democrat, I guess.  

I had to laugh at the fourth paragraph below.  Hillary may have traded her progressivism for neoconservatism, (they share some traits anyway), but the article says liberals distrust Hillary for it.  
lol, no they don't.  Most of them are more than happy to vote for bank-loving, spy on you, hack your phone, police the world, puts illegal aliens ahead of Americans, job-killing Hillary.

Which presidential candidate filibustered the unconstitutional, spy-on-you Patriot Act the other day?  Oh, right, Republican Rand Paul.

That was funny the other day when Iowa Democrats were praising Hillary but then couldn't name any of her accomplishments.  That's certainly not the first time that's happened.  
[L=http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2015/05/19/commentary/world-... said: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2015/05/19/commentary/world-commentary/hillary-clintons-lucrative-life-of-crime][/L]

Bill and Hillary Clinton “earned” — can a mortal earn such stratospheric sums? — “at least $30 million over the last 16 months, mainly from giving paid speeches to corporations, banks and other organizations,”

Hillary is out of touch. She hasn’t been behind the wheel of an automobile for nearly 20 years, is a multi-multi-millionaire who nevertheless considered herself “dead broke” and still believes that she and her husband are not among “the truly well off.” (Maybe Bill still drives.)

Ostentatious wealth coupled with tonedeafness didn’t help Mitt “47 percent” Romney in 2012, or John “I can’t remember how many houses I own” McCain in 2008

Liberals distrust Hillary due to her and her husband’s long record of kowtowing to Wall Street bankers and transnational corporations, supporting jobs-killing “free trade” agreements, backing the NSA’s intrusions into our privacy and as an unrepentant militarist. Her progressivism appears to have died with her law career.

GE, Cisco and Deutsche Bank aren’t run by idiots. Nor are lobbying groups like the female realtors. Their boards know that Hillary may well become president. Even if she loses, those bribes — er, speaking fees — are a smart investment in Washington influence.

“Behind every great fortune,” Balzac maintained, “lies a crime.” If there were any justice, the Clintons would be in prison for a generation of criminal activity that has left America a corrupted, Third Worldified nation, poorer for having been looted by the companies and banks whose criminality they aided and abetted.


 

rated:
I've been a Democrat for many years, but I'm not a Hilary fan. Seems like she's shoe in for the nomination, unfortunately. If the Republicans came up with a good candidate, I'd seriously consider voting for him/her, but I think that's also unlikely.

rated:
moonbeam said:   I've been a Democrat for many years, but I'm not a Hilary fan. Seems like she's shoe in for the nomination, unfortunately. If the Republicans came up with a good candidate, I'd seriously consider voting for him/her, but I think that's also unlikely.
That Republican candidate would have to come out strongly against the crazies in his own party and not compromise with them for political gain.  

rated:
scrouds said:   Without me trying to scroll back on the phone, what's your choice from the clown car kamalktk?
<-- that's the kind of republican I am.

  I'd go for this guy but he's declined to run in 2016. Highly successful as a governor, also served as Ambassador to China and speaks Mandarin.

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