Los Angeles to ban plastic grocery bags.

LINKY.

Probably a good thing. But let's say I can't live my life without plastic grocery bags. A quick check on Amazon shows I can buy 500 of them for $18.49. If I carry the box in the trunk of my car and bring my own supplies of contraband bags wherever I go, will the LAPD pull me over, hogtie me, throw me in a squad car and cart me off to County Jail?

Bah.. just do what they do in Toronto (perhaps in rest of Ontario too).
Charge 5 cents per plastic bag. Just a little change like that has done wonders. I see many many people bring their own bags..or use bookbags for their shopping.

moonbeam said:   I'm not sure how much that will help unless they also ban plastic garbage bags. Don't most people reuse the grocery bags for trash?

The garbage can liners (all sizes) I'm fairly certain aren't included. One can just buy those in Target and use them to carry the stuff they're buying at the same time.

burgerwars said:   moonbeam said:   I'm not sure how much that will help unless they also ban plastic garbage bags. Don't most people reuse the grocery bags for trash?

The garbage can liners (all sizes) I'm fairly certain aren't included. One can just buy those in Target and use them to carry the stuff they're buying at the same time.

So this law isn't about "saving the environment." It's about stores saving money on bags.

moonbeam said:   MadAnthony said:   thousands of LA cat owners are now wondering what they are going to put cat poop in.

Baltimore City passed a law that stores can only give out plastic bags if customers request them. This occasionally leads to an odd kabuki dance between store owners who want to offer their customers bags but can't.

pet peeve: some Whole Foods cashiers have an attitude if customers don't bring reuseable bags for their groceries. It annoys me when I have a large order and the cashier says, "do you need a bag?" I just purchased thirty items and I'm standing there holding nothing but a small wallet. YES, I obviously need a bag! Several bags! @@

Try buying groceries in Europe. There's usually no assistance with bagging. The cashier asks if you need bags, will throw some at you and scan your groceries. You got to bag the stuff up yourself quick before the next customer's groceries gets mixed up with yours.

SigX said:   burgerwars said:   moonbeam said:   MadAnthony said:   thousands of LA cat owners are now wondering what they are going to put cat poop in.

Baltimore City passed a law that stores can only give out plastic bags if customers request them. This occasionally leads to an odd kabuki dance between store owners who want to offer their customers bags but can't.

pet peeve: some Whole Foods cashiers have an attitude if customers don't bring reuseable bags for their groceries. It annoys me when I have a large order and the cashier says, "do you need a bag?" I just purchased thirty items and I'm standing there holding nothing but a small wallet. YES, I obviously need a bag! Several bags! @@

Try buying groceries in Europe. There's usually no assistance with bagging. The cashier asks if you need bags, will throw some at you and scan your groceries. You got to bag the stuff up yourself quick before the next customer's groceries gets mixed up with yours.
I remember when I was quite young going to a grocery store that had grease pencils when you walked in. You marked the price of the item with the grease pencil then they checked you out and you bagged your own groceries in seemingly indestructible paper bags. I always thought it was cool when my mother let me write the prices.

Another thing that is common to Europe that will confuse U.S. customers, is when buying stuff like vegetables or fruit you got to bag it, weight it and put the weight sticker on it right in the produce section, even if you're buying one banana. If you bring your produce without the stickers on them to the checkout, don't expect the cashier to do it for you. They won't. They just scan the stuff and take your money. But I still like Europe.

moonbeam said:   MadAnthony said:   thousands of LA cat owners are now wondering what they are going to put cat poop in.

Baltimore City passed a law that stores can only give out plastic bags if customers request them. This occasionally leads to an odd kabuki dance between store owners who want to offer their customers bags but can't.

pet peeve: some Whole Foods cashiers have an attitude if customers don't bring reuseable bags for their groceries. It annoys me when I have a large order and the cashier says, "do you need a bag?" I just purchased thirty items and I'm standing there holding nothing but a small wallet. YES, I obviously need a bag! Several bags! @@
Rollerbags?

burgerwars said:   moonbeam said:   I'm not sure how much that will help unless they also ban plastic garbage bags. Don't most people reuse the grocery bags for trash?

The garbage can liners (all sizes) I'm fairly certain aren't included. One can just buy those in Target and use them to carry the stuff they're buying at the same time.

I think the rule states single use plastic bags. That would include sandwich bags, cat poop bags, garbage bags... They'll probably have to further clarify, if they haven't.

Year two, the stores will be required to charge for alternative (paper) bags.

When plastic bags are recycled, the environmental impact may be better than with the alternatives.

riznick said:   
Council members quietly backed away from a more controversial plan to also ban use of paper grocery bags, which was first proposed by appointees of Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa.
I see. Eliminate all choices.

I'm glad to see that the government of LA has eliminated all crime, poverty, and suffering amongst it's residents and can now focus on shopping bags.

Actually, maybe it's good that they are focusing on small, stupid stuff instead of big, expensive, stupid stuff.

Ultimately we pay for the bags, their cost is rolled into the prices of the products. If we all brought our own bags not only could we reap the savings but also help the environment. If we can't be bothered to bring our own bags; paper bags make the most sense as they can be made with recycled material, are biodegradable and are great for stuffing all of those ads/newspapers/junk mail paper that get recycled.

advocatus said:   Ultimately we pay for the bags, their cost is rolled into the prices of the products. If we all brought our own bags not only could we reap the savings but also help the environment. If we can't be bothered to bring our own bags; paper bags make the most sense as they can be made with recycled material, are biodegradable and are great for stuffing all of those ads/newspapers/junk mail paper that get recycled.

Are you sure about that? I've read studies that say plastic bags are the better environmental alternative.

article Plastic Bags vs Paper Bags said:
http://savetheplasticbag.com/ReadContent486.aspx
Recycling or composting generally produce only a small reduction in global warming potential and abiotic depletion.

40.3% of plastic bags are reused as bin liners.

Reuse as bin liners produces greater benefits than recycling bags.

When each bag was compared with no primary reuse (i.e. no reuse as a carrier bag), the conventional HDPE bag had the lowest environmental impacts of in eight of the nine impact categories, because it was the lightest bag considered.


wiki Cotton Bags said:
One reusable bag requires the same amount of energy as an estimated 28 traditional plastic shopping bags

The accelerating volume of reusable bags being imported and resold, along with the 2008 Wall Street Journal article, An Inconvenient Bag, that documented that only 10% of bags are actually being reused

the UK's Environment Agency found that when compared to a traditional plastic bag, a canvas or cotton reusable bag would have to be reused a total of 171 times to offset the higher carbon emissions.

Although reusable bags are capable of offsetting more, it is likely that due to lack of use, increased free distribution of these heavier bags, commercialization and commoditization that they are becoming a disposable product with a limited lifespan.

Most reusable bag shoppers do not wash their bags once they return home and the bags may be leading to food poisoning

A 2008 study of bags, sponsored by the Environmental and Plastics Industry Council of Canada, found mold and bacterial levels in one reusable bag to be 300% greater than the levels that would be considered safe in drinking water.

According to Bloomberg News, in September 2010, "Wegmans Food Markets Inc., owner of a chain of East Coast supermarkets, announced it would replace reusable shopping bags after a consumer group found the sacks had high levels of lead.

The Tampa Tribune in November 2010 reported that elevated levels of lead were found in similar reusable bags

In January 2011, USA Today ran an article based on a report from the Center for Consumer Freedom, a front group for the "hospitality industries", that bags sold in the U.S. by Walgreens, safeway, Giant, Giant Eagle, Bloom and other grocery chains and retailers contained levels of lead in excess of 100 parts per million, the maximum amount allowed under law in many U.S. states

I tend to second guess any claims that certain things are more environmentally friendly. I am not saying that plastic bags are the best. I just find that most people repeat the info without knowing whether it's true or not.

We do have some reusable bags. Some last much longer than others. Some rip open just after a few uses.

scrouds said:   moonbeam said:   MadAnthony said:   thousands of LA cat owners are now wondering what they are going to put cat poop in.

Baltimore City passed a law that stores can only give out plastic bags if customers request them. This occasionally leads to an odd kabuki dance between store owners who want to offer their customers bags but can't.

pet peeve: some Whole Foods cashiers have an attitude if customers don't bring reuseable bags for their groceries. It annoys me when I have a large order and the cashier says, "do you need a bag?" I just purchased thirty items and I'm standing there holding nothing but a small wallet. YES, I obviously need a bag! Several bags! @@

Better to have organic (yes I did, ha!) social change then have the government ram it down our throats.

If the Government didn't occasionally ram unpopular change down society's throat, we'd still have segregated schools/buses/pools/toilets/restaurants in parts of the country.

(aside - a few years ago I was checking in for a flight in San Francisco and the (dot) Indian checking in ahead of me evidently had a overweight case. He opened the case, presumably to remove some weight, and it exploded into a pile of used plastic grocery bags many, mnay times larger than the case. It was like Wile E. Coyote's Acme brand instant grocery bag house. I asked another (dot) Indian about it later and apparently plastic bags are illegal in India and the guy was being a scofflaw?! So, if you ban plastic grocery bags, only criminals will have them).

arch8ngel said:    Are people to stupid

Apparently

It's a little humor.

there goes my supply of free birth control

ganda said:   arch8ngel said:    Are people to stupid

Apparently

It's a little humor.

There is a difference between a typo and perpetuating antiquated distinctions of ethnicity.

ganda said:   morecowbell said:   there goes my supply of free birth control

You hand them out as femidoms to the size of women you pull?i had to google "femidom"

i'm still googling "women you pull"

morecowbell said:   arch8ngel said:   ^^^ Why has it come into fashion to say "dot Indians"? Are people to stupid to understand that when you say "Indian" you always mean a person from India or of Indian descent?

Anybody referring to a Native American as an Indian just sounds like an ignorant hick stuck in the 19th century, unless they're under the age of 10."dot indian" sounds like a domain

but ok, does the bolded part also apply when speaking of casinos? because i have always heard them referred to as "indian gaming" or whatever. and just now when i looked up the viejas casino it (the wiki entry) mentioned that it is owned by the "kumeyaay indians"

Tribal names are a little different.

My post was more in reference to the need to make the distinction with the solitary word "Indian". If a person just says "Indian", it should be obvious what they mean.

If a person says a tribal name... it should be obvious what they mean.

Saying "dot" or "feather" in front of the word sounds infantile and backwater.

webferret said:   

Is this another case of it being ok for the ethnic group to refer to themselves in a particular term, but nobody else is allowed to? Because I know quite a few Choctaws, Cherokees, and a couple of Apaches who refer to themselves as Indians (or should I say the "I" word? )

I'm not trying to be a smartass. I'm genuinely curious.

Maybe my gripe is only applicable on the coasts where Native Americans (or American Indians, if you prefer) are greatly outnumbered by actual Indians, so nobody would refer to them with just the word Indian.

It just strikes me as the same kind of thing as referring to Asians as "Orientals"...

Anyway, we are WAY off topic at this point. Sorry

riznick said:   "Let’s get the message to Sacramento that it’s time to go statewide," said Councilman Ed Reyes, who has focused on efforts to revitalize the Los Angeles River."
So the problem is that people are throwing plastic bags into the river?

If you never been to L.A., the L.A. river is a flood control channel. Not your average definition of a river. Nobody who is sane would want to step in it. Adding plastic bags to the river would be an improvement.

pecanpie said:   i think it's great to ban single-use plastic grocery bags. because that is all they are good for many time 1 use.
giant eagle bags usually are torn or have a hole in the bottom seam so they really can't be reused ... not even for kitty litter.

i don't think consumers, however, are the only ones who are to blame. the people who own or run the garbage dumps around here are also to blame.
on a windy day, you will see all kinds of trash that has come out from the landfill or didn't go into the landfill properly. it is disgusting!

During my brief time in retail I remember Office Depot moving to a lighter weight bag with the idea that they would somehow save money by using bags that were a couple mil thinner.

It was a moronic move, because you ended up needing to double bag all kinds of stuff as a result.

Bags too thin for a second use are generally too thin for a first use, as well, IMO

larrymoencurly said:   riznick said:   advocatus said:   Ultimately we pay for the bags, their cost is rolled into the prices of the products. If we all brought our own bags not only could we reap the savings but also help the environment. If we can't be bothered to bring our own bags; paper bags make the most sense as they can be made with recycled material, are biodegradable and are great for stuffing all of those ads/newspapers/junk mail paper that get recycled.Are you sure about that? I've read studies that say plastic bags are the better environmental alternative.It may depend on whether they're recycled or not because a lot of biodegradable stuff just doesn't degrade in landfills, as University of Arizona scientists who've dug up old cheeseburgers have discovered.

More proof that unless it can get skin cancer, it just WILL NOT DIE in Arizona.