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posted: Jan. 17, 2009 @ 6:00p
Xnarg
Senior Member - 5K
posted: Jan. 17, 2009 @ 6:06p
The article clarifies that many of the poor are being treated at free or subsidized clinics or at emergency rooms, which are not recipients of free samples. They're getting treated for free or cheaply, and they want free samples too?
The article also states that free samples may often cost patients more in the long run, because instead of switching to lower cost generics, they're more likely to stick with the free name-brand samples they got. Thus, people are SAVING money by not getting such samples.
We can expect a continuous attack on health care, portraying pharmaceutical companies and health care providers and expenses in a negative light.
thegerudo
Senior Member
posted: Jan. 17, 2009 @ 6:11p
no sh*t.
generic drugs dont get marketed including having no samples - increasing brand prescribing. samples are for marketing and have a side purpose of helping *SOME* patients.
staci86
Senior Member
posted: Jan. 17, 2009 @ 6:28p
What a complete and total shocker. A manufacturer promotes its product to those most likely to buy it.
staci86 said: What a complete and total shocker. A manufacturer promotes its product to those most likely to buy it.
Seems obvious, doesn't it? Samples aren't intended to replace buying. Just like with other products, when drug manufacturers give out free samples, they're hoping the recipients will like them enough to become regular paying customers.
Xnarg
Senior Member - 5K
posted: Jan. 17, 2009 @ 6:56p
staci86 said: What a complete and total shocker. A manufacturer promotes its product to those most likely to buy it.It's very cruel of them! You'd think they were in business to make a profit or something evil like that!
Also, the more-affluent receive more in Medicaid benefits. I do not mean Medicare, the program for senior citizens but Medicaid, the program for lower-income people.
What class based health care system? Either YOU or your employer pays for your health care, or if you are poor, you get medicaid or a state health plan. Yes, there are some who fall into the cracks, but you can do/be anything you want in this country. Nothing is stopping people from getting an education and getting a job with benefits.
I had this friend who had access to HUGE quantities(No idea how) of drug samples. He said to me man you gotta try Viagra, so I tell him I don't have an "Issue" with that. He says Naw it's still great, and goes on to explain all these benefits then hands me like 20 cards with two tablets on each.
shopliftinginva said: What class based health care system? Either YOU or your employer pays for your health care, or if you are poor, you get medicaid or a state health plan. Yes, there are some who fall into the cracks, but you can do/be anything you want in this country. Nothing is stopping people from getting an education and getting a job with benefits.
Make sure to remind that to the thousands that are laid off, others that do work full time, but also have steep medical bills. Capitalism's "If you can dream it, you can be it" is BS! Nowadays you must have money already to get ahead. Alot of is is luck too.
Xnarg
Senior Member - 5K
posted: Jan. 17, 2009 @ 8:36p
FrugalFreak said: ..Capitalism's "If you can dream it, you can be it" is BS!...You completely misstate the underlying philosophy of capitalism.
Nowhere does capitalism predict individual success based solely on dreams - or on anything else for that matter.
There is no system on earth that can effect success for everyone. Capitalism happens to be the most efficient approach.
FrugalFreak said: shopliftinginva said: What class based health care system? Either YOU or your employer pays for your health care, or if you are poor, you get medicaid or a state health plan. Yes, there are some who fall into the cracks, but you can do/be anything you want in this country. Nothing is stopping people from getting an education and getting a job with benefits.
Make sure to remind that to the thousands that are laid off, others that do work full time, but also have steep medical bills. Capitalism's "If you can dream it, you can be it" is BS! Nowadays you must have money already to get ahead. Alot of is is luck too.
High deductible insurance plans are very reasonable; less than many people's cell phone bill. There is no reason to not have at least catastrophic health insurance coverage. And you CAN be pretty much anything with a little effort. Been reading 'The Communist Manifesto' lately?
FrugalFreak said: Make sure to remind that to the thousands that are laid off, others that do work full time, but also have steep medical bills. Capitalism's "If you can dream it, you can be it" is BS! Nowadays you must have money already to get ahead. Alot of is is luck too.
My husband HAS been laid off, it's not easy, but you give up your luxuries before giving up your healthcare. Yes, we paid $800 a month for insurance for a year before he got new insurance. It's not going to be easy for those who have been laid off. I'd much rather see money spent to cover their insurance than bailouts for companies that can't run correctly to start with. But honestly, FF, where the heck do you think all this money is going to come from? Do you think the people in this country that DO work should just fork over their whole paycheck so those who don't can get more handouts?
I really can't believe how frequently people are looking for MORE than what they already get. This country is being run into the ground financially and you're still calling for more money to be spent.
And no, if you work hard, go to school, and continue to work hard, you CAN do anything. It just takes effort and discipline.
There is a world of difference between middle class and the working poor. It is pointless to debate the point when neither side can understand the other's perspective if they have never lived it. I grew up poverty level.
My "guidance counselor" told me that unless I got good at sports or had straight A's I couldn't go to college & didn't mention things like Pell Grants or Student Loans or even Community Colleges were different cost-wise/enrollment wise & could be a stepping stone into the universities.
I'm not asking for a handout. I am just saying that the opportunities that are presented are different depending on who your family is & where you live.
eta: if you are the first generation college student in your house, you tend to believe what the guy who regularly gets people into college tells you.
mewhojen said: There is a world of difference between middle class and the working poor. It is pointless to debate the point when neither side can understand the other's perspective if they have never lived it. I grew up poverty level.
My "guidance counselor" told me that unless I got good at sports or had straight A's I couldn't go to college & didn't mention things like Pell Grants or Student Loans or even Community Colleges were different cost-wise/enrollment wise & could be a stepping stone into the universities.
I'm not asking for a handout. I am just saying that the opportunities that are presented are different depending on who your family is & where you live.
eta: if you are the first generation college student in your house, you tend to believe what the guy who regularly gets people into college tell you.
I agree somewhat, but it really is the responsibility of the individual. Of course, a crummy guidance department is horrible. Financial aid has become extremely standardized due to FAFSA. What I can't for the life of me understand is WHY grants even exist. NO ONE should get free money to go to college. I know so many people who don't qualify for grants or subsidized loans because their parents have money, which doesn't mean that the parents are the ones paying (it's sort of the trend for parents to not pay tuition and make the kid do it themselves). At the same time, once you're in college, everyone has the same opportunities for advancement. The poor person with grants is going to get the same starting salary as the kid who had to take on loans because the didn't qualify, except the poor person is now coming out ahead. I think the whole financial aid systems needs scraped, and replaced with a simple system that provides only provides low interest loans.
richfish13 said: I think the whole financial aid systems needs scraped, and replaced with a simple system that provides only provides low interest loans.
As an employee of a college, I think that the government should give huge amounts of money to people to go to college.
MadAnthony said: richfish13 said: I think the whole financial aid systems needs scraped, and replaced with a simple system that provides only provides low interest loans.
As an employee of a college, I think that the government should give huge amounts of money to people to go to college.
Ha, my school put a freeze on all wages this year. The professors love to bring it up in class and bitch too. Sort of funny since enrollment is at an all time high, expenses have leveled, and the only real issue they have is the fact that the pension plan got pwned and they're gonna need to make some major contributions.
richfish13 said: What I can't for the life of me understand is WHY grants even exist. NO ONE should get free money to go to college. are you talking grants or merit-based (grades, athletics, band, chorus) scholarships? just curious.
I know so many people who don't qualify for grants or subsidized loans because their parents have money, which doesn't mean that the parents are the ones paying (it's sort of the trend for parents to not pay tuition and make the kid do it themselves).
Very true, but then, having to find your own way through college (financially) is the norm for the working class families I know.
At the same time, once you're in college, everyone has the same opportunities for advancement. The poor person with grants is going to get the same starting salary as the kid who had to take on loans because the didn't qualify, except the poor person is now coming out ahead. I think the whole financial aid systems needs scraped, and replaced with a simple system that provides only provides low interest loans.
I agree to some extent, IF the poor person got enough grants & scholarships to give them the free ride. My pell grant covers a good share of my tuition only. I have to take out student loans to cover the cost of childcare while I'm in class/clinical, the gas money to get to school & all my books, equipment & lab fees + make up the difference in my pay since I had to cut my hours last semester to finish out my RN.
I mean grants, free money for nothing. Merit based is great...BUT most merit also has some criteria for financial aid. That, along with the fact that many have race/ethic requirements makes it difficult. I don't get merit aid, but I have a very high GPA.
Skipping 34 Messages...
staci86
Senior Member
posted: Jan. 18, 2009 @ 11:41a
FrugalFreak said: Right! There are those that are on welfare that are taking, But not all the poor are lazy and not trying their best to get ahead. They are just caught with obstacles, difficuties and IMO deserve the same healthcare as any other people. but wealth decides who lives or dies when serious care is needed. THAT is what I am against. The lazy poor have better healthcare than those between the welfare class and upper middle class. there is more than just the welfare class and well off middle class, there is a wide gap in between the two and the working poor gets clumped together with the welfare poor. There is the problem, that word "deserve."
It is awfully presumptive to declare oneself as being entitled to the hard work of another.
Look, most people are good and decent, and don't have a problem with a reasonable use of tax dollars to help those who have worked hard but still need a hand up. They do, however, have a problem with those who presume that a handout for anyone is some divinely granted right, and when those people decide to help themselves to the earnings of others through special interest politicians.
People will freely give to the Salvation Army, but they would feel much different if being mugged by a bell ringer who thought it was her job to reorder the social structure.
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