FrugalFreak said:katx said:FrugalFreak said:pecanpie said:viperlance said:pecanpie said:
i see your point, and i don't completely agree w/ the laws on child support.


Thank you.

pecanpie said:
but, do you really think a man should have NO responsibility?


I think the a man should be responsible for the action he did. What intrigued me was not the notion of taking hands off approach; rather it was the notion that we strife for equality in some subject yet demand advantages on other subject.

i think you mean "strive".
so, you think you can tell a woman what to do with her body? i don't understand what you are trying to say.

btw: sorry if i misled you, but i think that a man SHOULD pay for support if is the biological father. i think the woman decides she does not want the man to see the child or be a part of his/her life then she should not be allowed to get support payments. (it gets complicated.)

rather simple process it seems.

my best solution is to offer a $$$ payout to persuade what you are seeking, chances are she may take you up on it, if so, consider yourself getting out cheap. $20, 000 compared to many $$$ x over 18 years.

this is not a right versus wrong debate, since it is legal.I am not a lawyer but I think the woman cannot irrevocably give up child support. As I said before, the obligation is to the child and not to the woman. So even after accepting $20,000 if the woman later goes after child support, the man is hooked in my opinion -- as he should be.

nothing says he has to pay before the abortion.

you may not like my opinion on this solution, but I don't really care. it just is a solution to aid the man and serves no purpose to the woman beyond the payout.

if that were the case, then the man should word it as "advance in child support" on the check, thus if she changed her mind, he would be paid in advance.

FrugalFreak said:bridgeforsale said:viperlance said:So the dad has no say on abortion but the mom can make whatever decision she wants in terms of abortion?

Not exactly fair and/or equal isn't it?It doesn't matter who makes the decision. Abortion is never fair or equal to the human being who is aborted.and enters the debate of abortion being right versus wrong.You may see it that way, but I don't. I just stated a plain fact.

(Wades in)

The fallacy here ( a common one in this generation) is to think that your rights extend beyond your own actions. You are assuming that your "rights" can somehow bend reality. You have a "right" to have sex (or not), but you do not have a right to demand that a woman have an abortion - that's not you doing something, that's you demanding that someone else do something. In what case do you have a right to demand that someone else do something? A woman can demand child support, but she can't dictate how the man makes the money - child support is just a debt, not a demand for action.

The law is complex, but the spirit of the laws is that your rights only allow you to do something, they never allow you to force someone else to do something.

soundtechie said: The law is complex, but the spirit of the laws is that your rights only allow you to do something, they never allow you to force someone else to do something.With one exception...

zzyzzx said:viperlance said:Can he demand for abortion from the girl and refuse to pay child support or be responsible in anyway if the girl refuse to get abortion?

No. It's precisely why you should get a vasectomy as young as possible, because men have absolutly no rights in the above mentioned circumstances.

THIS would do more for equal rights than many others. freeze some sperm from youth, then get a vasectomy. It would equalize the powers that exist. smart men should do this.

pecanpie said:Jstkiddn said:Maybe if people would wait until they were married (or otherwise in a very serious, committed relationship) to have sex, then this question would be pointless.

Just sayin'.

you might think that, but i know of two couples who were married at the time and still had abortions.
Yep, Some dopes use them as a form of birth control. That type of abortion I am against

So if a girl knocked out a guy -

Would it be a valid argument to say he deserved it for trying to make her have an abortion?

I think so.

JackieJ828 said:So if a girl knocked out a guy -

Would it be a valid argument to say he deserved it for trying to make her have an abortion?

I think so.

:rolls eyes:

pecanpie said:

i agree. i had a roommate (years ago) who was in a relationship and had several abortions. then, after she married she complained that she couldn't have kids.
Strange reading this now, Last weekend I was out with my daughter and ran into my ex wife. Have not seen her in about 10 years. She told us she had seen some pictures of her in the paper and told her how beautiful she was. We looked at each other sadly thinking the same thing, Our mistakes and abortions she had as a teen has prevented her from being able to have kids.

RS4Rings said:pecanpie said:Jstkiddn said:Maybe if people would wait until they were married (or otherwise in a very serious, committed relationship) to have sex, then this question would be pointless.

Just sayin'. you might think that, but i know of two couples who were married at the time and still had abortions.Yep, Some dopes use them as a form of birth control. That type of abortion I am againstWhy be against? It's available to anyone who wants one.