Another famous scumbag will soon be dead

For those of you who were happy to hear that John Couey died of ass cancer, here's some more good news. John Allen Muhammad (the "Beltway Sniper") has a month left to live as of tomorrow. I'm sure that anybody who was living in the DC area back in 2002 has less than fond memories of that time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/us/30brfs-EXECUTIONISL_BRF.htm...

momgoingbroke said: Now if Charles manson would just die already....

At least one of his followers recently died a rather nasty death from a brain tumor. Makes me feel like there's some small amount of justice in the universe.

Some argue that being executed so neatly with injections is actually an easy way out. And that being incarcerated for the rest of one's life is actually a more severe punishment.

I also suspect that when you are of the mindset that you want these people to suffer as much to the degree that you actually wish them painful diseases that no form of execution would be satisfactory.

It is kinda sad for some of the families of the victims that first they suffer the loss of their loved ones and then experience the lack of satisfaction when these killers are put to death.

ppatin said: katx said: Some argue that being executed so neatly with injections is actually an easy way out. And that being incarcerated for the rest of one's life is actually a more severe punishment.

That must explain why so many death row inmates voluntarily drop their appeals, and why lifers are regularly committing suicide...

Oh wait, they're not. Being alive is always better than being dead.Many people also decide not to finish high school. Does that prove that education is a negative thing?

I do not think it is that simple.

Also, even YOUR POST does not deny the existence of suicide. That means there are some lives that are consider worse than death by those who committ suicide.

Lastly, I am not gonna cede to the judgment of those who are on the death row. Also consider the general and inherent cowardice that we all suffer from, arguably more so by those who are on the death row.

katx said: Lastly, I am not gonna cede to the judgment of those who are on the death row. Also consider the general and inherent cowardice that we all suffer from, arguably more so by those who are on the death row.

This doesn't even make sense. Do you have an actual point you're trying to make here, or are you simply being obnoxious and argumentative?

ppatin said: katx said: Lastly, I am not gonna cede to the judgment of those who are on the death row. Also consider the general and inherent cowardice that we all suffer from, arguably more so by those who are on the death row.

This doesn't even make sense. Do you have an actual point you're trying to make here, or are you simply being obnoxious and argumentative?Here is another try: death row inmates are mistaken about the fact that it is better to live a life on death row or incarceration than being put to death by lethal injection.

(BTW: I like your style in personal attack. At least it was not "passive-aggressive" like some others. )

ETA quotations marks.

katx said: Xnarg said: katx said: ...Many people also decide not to finish high school. Does that prove that education is a negative thing?...Obviously it is wasted on some.

Equating education with death-row appeals requires a leap beyond the bounds of reason.I do not know where you saw an equality mark.

If any I was using an analogy. Analogies are not equalities.a·nal·o·gy

1.
a. Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.
b. A comparison based on such similarity.

Equating two things means they are similar enough as to have some like characteristics.

I didn't say they were exactly equal.

The difference between education and death-row appeals is so vast as to make the analogy meaningless.

It is fascinating that you nitpick when it comes to the words of others but then take huge leaps in your own analogies.

Poor guy. If only he was in Scotland he'd have the opportunity to live out his last days free as a bird... after all that is more humane.

Before I get red for my joke.... it's called sarcasm. I am not serious.

Solipsist said: Sanjoelo said: You guys really need to learn to use ignore. Seriously.At the very lest, pretend you're ignoring it & stop attacking each other.
why does the whole board need to ignore the one argumentative person instead of mods stepping in and telling the one person to knock it off?

shopliftinginva said: Solipsist said: Sanjoelo said: You guys really need to learn to use ignore. Seriously.At the very lest, pretend you're ignoring it & stop attacking each other.
why does the whole board need to ignore the one argumentative person instead of mods stepping in and telling the one person to knock it off?

Please don't tell me it keeps the lights on.

DevilMonkey said: shopliftinginva said: why does the whole board need to ignore the one argumentative person instead of mods stepping in and telling the one person to knock it off?Because it's not the whole board having a problem ignoring it.It's enough people that it warrants some sort of action.

Moderation is a short term solution. Ignoring people like that is a forever solution. Much less stressful for all involved, and it leaves the agitator ultimately unsatisfied. Might not be the popular answer, but it is the truth.

bridgeforsale said: katx said: Some argue that being executed so neatly with injections is actually an easy way out. And that being incarcerated for the rest of one's life is actually a more severe punishment.If that were so then life imprisonment would be "cruel and unusual" punishment that should be abolished, and the death penalty would be the more humane alternative.

So let's execute all the lifers.Just because execution might be more humane (let's stipulate that for now), it does not necessary follow that life is "cruel and unusual."

To me, the most important question is, does CP offer any additional deterrence? My fear is that it does not. And if so, then why choose execution which is not reversible/correctable in case of errors.

In technical terms, the recidivism rate approaches zero as the scum bag approaches room temperature. And as Martha Stewart would say, that's a good thing

As I said in the missing/killed Florida child thread, you can throw out recidivism, humanity or cruelty of the sentence, cost of keeping said scum alive for 40-50 years, etc. The simple point is they have voluntarily handed in their license for breathing on this planet, as they have proven they can no longer live with humans. Needle in the arm, bullet in the back of the head, short jump at end of long rope, whatever, just do it quick and do it often. There are enough decent people in the world not to waste any time with these clowns.

bridgeforsale said: katx said: bridgeforsale said: katx said: Some argue that being executed so neatly with injections is actually an easy way out. And that being incarcerated for the rest of one's life is actually a more severe punishment.If that were so then life imprisonment would be "cruel and unusual" punishment that should be abolished, and the death penalty would be the more humane alternative.

So let's execute all the lifers.Just because execution might be more humane (let's stipulate that for now), it does not necessary follow that life is "cruel and unusual."

To me, the most important question is, does CP offer any additional deterrence? My fear is that it does not. And if so, then why choose execution which is not reversible/correctable in case of errors.Because felons who are executed have a FAR lower rate of recidivism than felons with life sentences.So then why parole at all? And if the real problem is with parole, let's fix that. We should not kill people JUST because they might be paroled. No one gets paroled unless the law allows it and no laws get passed unless our representatives vote for them.

Can icnore be fixed/upgraded/modified so that the grayed-out placeholders of icnored posters' reply entries disappear entirely? It works great for icnoring new topics, but leaves the replies sitting there.

katx said: bridgeforsale said: katx said: bridgeforsale said: katx said: Some argue that being executed so neatly with injections is actually an easy way out. And that being incarcerated for the rest of one's life is actually a more severe punishment.If that were so then life imprisonment would be "cruel and unusual" punishment that should be abolished, and the death penalty would be the more humane alternative.

So let's execute all the lifers.Just because execution might be more humane (let's stipulate that for now), it does not necessary follow that life is "cruel and unusual."

To me, the most important question is, does CP offer any additional deterrence? My fear is that it does not. And if so, then why choose execution which is not reversible/correctable in case of errors.Because felons who are executed have a FAR lower rate of recidivism than felons with life sentences.So then why parole at all? And if the real problem is with parole, let's fix that. We should not kill people JUST because they might be paroled. No one gets paroled unless the law allows it and no laws get passed unless our representatives vote for them.As they have in the past and as they will in the future. Good laws can be overturned and bad laws enacted, and a life sentence can be paroled or pardoned.

An execution can't be undone. On balance that's a benefit to society, because executions spare innocent people who otherwise are murdered, maimed, and raped by felons who were released from prison. Also, in regard to the oft made claim that innocent people are sometimes executed, it is entirely possible. But it is also possible that prisoners who are actually innocent of the crimes they were convicted for, are sometimes murdered by lifers who weren't properly executed in a timely fashion.

katx said: There is no "bad" law. What some consider bad law, others consider good law and vice versa. Of course there are bad laws. Saying there's "no bad law" is like saying there is no good law, that it's all arbitrary. So murder isn't illegal because it's bad, it just so happened that a law was passed making it illegal.

I never said it was OK to execute innocents, and the fact is that it happens very infrequently. That's not infrequent enough and the number should be zero, but the practical effect of keeping the guilty alive to save the rare innocent inevitably leads to the murder of other innocents, including prison guards and other staff, not to mention other prisoners who really are felons who end up getting killed. And we all have seen the effect when these killers are loosed on society by those VERY bad laws that make that possible.

This doesn't require a supercomputer to figure out, just a well balanced sense of justice.

FYI, I don't support "rape and murder on prisoners as an added and extra-legal punishment", but I believe that those who do feel that way because the justice system has become ineffective at meting out just punishment.

This thread me reminds me of the book "The Chamber" by John Grisham. Wonderful read.

For once our legal system got it right, and unlike so many capital cases this one didn't have 20 years of appeals.