Package Stolen what recourse do I have?

I don't see the logic behind leaving the package under the door. USPS is responsible for the package not your building and definitely not the seller. It's probably not the easiest road to go, resolving issue with USPS, but that's the right way. It happened to one of the friends and it took quiet a while for him to get claimed money back.

mistycoupon said:   Why do people red flag OP posters for questions like this ? Idiots !
If you all are so freakin great why even lurk here ?

B/c this is not the off topic forums. Well at least to me it is not, but moderators here are quite lax about what is allowed here.

BEEFjerKAY said:   JaxFL said:   Id say that if I lived in a building with a central un monitored mail area, Id pay for and or require signature delivery as the buyer, or delivery to an alternate address

Agreed.

Nobody touches my package except me or my wife.

You must not fly. TSA touches everyones package that they can.

unnamedny said:   I don't see the logic behind leaving the package under the door. USPS is responsible for the package not your building and definitely not the seller. It's probably not the easiest road to go, resolving issue with USPS, but that's the right way. It happened to one of the friends and it took quiet a while for him to get claimed money back.

Resolve something with the post office?

Ha, that's a good one, I'll have to tell that at the next company Christmas party.

wanabath said:   So according to many posts here, all one has to do is order whatever they want on eBay, once it is delivered declare you never received it and make it someone elses problem that you choose to live in an unsecured dishonest complex. This way I can buy whatever I want and never pay for any of it.

Someone might get away with it once or twice, but eventually, the computers will pick up on an unusual pattern of claims activity.

Is it really worth committing mail fraud for $500 worth of goods? Is a person's conscience worth that?

beanie4me said:   brettdoyle said:   Paypal disputes are a kangaroo court... the buyer always wins.

Not always.

I (as seller) won a dispute with a buyer who bought a laptop. He got confused about the specs after it was shipped, freaked out in a message to me, and disputed, claiming someone had hacked his account. But I provided Paypal with the messages detailing the buyers' panic (and implicit acknowledgment of the order), and provided tracking that showed that the item was delivered to the buyer's registered address. The dispute was resolved in my favor.

Don't trust Paypal. While its not the same thing, Paypay basically gave me the finger regarding their seller protection in an eBay auction. A buyer bid on gift cards from multiple buyers basically at the same time on eBay. He paid by Paypal transfer from his bank account (as, with few exceptions, sellers are forced to accept Paypal as THE, AND THE ONLY form of payment). When notified by the sellers that the cards were shipped, and before they were delivered, had his bank reverse the payments. eBay then stole the money from the sellers Paypal accounts. I (and at least some others, as some of us contacted each other by email with exactly the same experience) mailed the card certified, return receipt requested, received a signed receipt acknowledging delivery, by the person, at the private residence address (dated after he reversed the payment), and never disputed, or contended in any manner that he didn't receive the card, or that there was any problem with it. Ebays seller protection whose policy clearly states that all tangible (defined by them as an item that can be put into a box and mailed) are covered, as opposed to non tangible items, which cannot be put in a box and mailed, which are not. No exception exists for gift cards. To be covered you must have a tracking number showing that the item was delivered, which I provided Paypal. I filed a seller protection claim, whereupon the representative taking the dispute checked the tracking number on the USPS site, told me she confirmed that it was personally delivered to a person at the address, a private residence, who signed for it, told me I should see the money back in my Paypal account in about 48 hours, and instead was denied. The phone representativeS I spoke with ALL stated that they had no idea why it was denied, as according to the policy, it is covered. It took me around an hour working my way through maybe a dozen people until I was reimbursed.

wanabath said:   So according to many posts here, all one has to do is order whatever they want on eBay, once it is delivered declare you never received it and make it someone elses problem that you choose to live in an unsecured dishonest complex. This way I can buy whatever I want and never pay for any of it.

living a dishonest life, catches up to most people

but you are correct in that a lot of people could probably get away with a dishonest deed at least once or twice

The guy knows who I am, besides it would just be another form of stealing anyway, what would you do if you mistakenly gotten a neighbors package?

Kingofthenet said:   wanabath said:   So according to many posts here, all one has to do is order whatever they want on eBay, once it is delivered declare you never received it and make it someone elses problem that you choose to live in an unsecured dishonest complex. This way I can buy whatever I want and never pay for any of it.

When your a seller you have to protect yourself, Insurance is for YOU not the buyers protection. As a buyer, I can't even collect, only the seller can.Unattended packages can get stolen anywhere, in fact i'd imagine it happens more in slightly ritzy places, better quality stuff in those packages.Really in this case it was USPS delivery who was at fault, but the shipper should have got signature conformation and none of this would have happened. I am pretty mad too, I was getting this thing at a GREAT deal, doubt they will want to do business with me again after this.

The problem here is that USPS says it was delivered. No insurance would cover it when it's stolen after deliver.

Kingofthenet said:   The guy knows who I am, besides it would just be another form of stealing anyway, what would you do if you mistakenly gotten a neighbors package?

So you don't have any actual proof, just conjecture. You (supposedly) have a video showing the carrier walking in with a package and leaving without it, nothing more.

What *I* would do is irrelevant to your problem at hand.

ETA: if you know where the package was delivered, did you bother asking your neighbor for the package?

There is really nothing else to talk about, stuff happens, no one is at fault here except for the thief. PayPal policy will side with the buyer in this case if a signature was not obtained for delivering a $260 item. I would not be worried if I was the OP.

DealSeal said:   What if the item sold for $249.99, but tax and/or shipping puts it over? OP said $261 with tax, so probably under $250 for the actual item.

Would suck as a seller if you had to always add everything and see if it was over $250. Can't always figure the shipping in advance, so then you can't "build in" the cost for the Signature service.

your right it actually was $24?.?? but NJ tax put it over. I got free shipping but Paypal says tax and shipping count, if you pay them. I NEVER thought I'd say this but THANK YOU GOVT. for taxes.

BTW: i just got informed by paypal, i won my case and they have deposited the money in my account.

mase said:   scottxmso said:   money2011 said:   Blaming someone for not electing for an insurance policy is ludicrous. The seller fulfilled his duties to the OP, and yet he will suffer for the OP's problem of a poorly secured building.

A seller who sells an item through PayPal is typically required to include signature confirmation if the amount of payment is $250 or more. Otherwise, they don't have the sufficient "proof of delivery" necessary in the event of a dispute. See section 11.4 of the PayPal User Agreement.

Because of this policy, it seems reasonable for someone paying with PayPal to expect that the seller (especially an actual company, not a small-time seller) will ship with the required signature confirmation service. Had the shipper required a signature, OP probably would have been able to take delivery of the package without it being stolen.

So the seller (most likely) neglected their duties to OP by not including sig confirmation service.


So you're saying that if the item was $12 less ($249), that you'd all be telling the buyer to not dispute with PayPal and/or his credit card company, because the seller did nothing wrong? I doubt I'd see this distinction.

No it really is, i read the Paypal seller agreement myself, under $250 you just need DELIVERY Confirmation, above and it requires Signature Confirmation, that easy.You most likely as a buyer wouldn't win a Paypal dispute outside those rules, but a Chargeback almost 100% you would be OK.Bottom line is a seller needs to PROVE that an item gets in a buyers HANDS, just as a buyer can prove they paid a seller.i.e. 100% All insurances and Confirmations do is protect the SELLER, the buyer doesn't need to sign up for any of that malarkey.

mase said:   Kingofthenet said:   mase said:   scottxmso said:   money2011 said:   Blaming someone for not electing for an insurance policy is ludicrous. The seller fulfilled his duties to the OP, and yet he will suffer for the OP's problem of a poorly secured building.

A seller who sells an item through PayPal is typically required to include signature confirmation if the amount of payment is $250 or more. Otherwise, they don't have the sufficient "proof of delivery" necessary in the event of a dispute. See section 11.4 of the PayPal User Agreement.

Because of this policy, it seems reasonable for someone paying with PayPal to expect that the seller (especially an actual company, not a small-time seller) will ship with the required signature confirmation service. Had the shipper required a signature, OP probably would have been able to take delivery of the package without it being stolen.

So the seller (most likely) neglected their duties to OP by not including sig confirmation service.


So you're saying that if the item was $12 less ($249), that you'd all be telling the buyer to not dispute with PayPal and/or his credit card company, because the seller did nothing wrong? I doubt I'd see this distinction.

No it really is, i read the Paypal seller agreement myself, under $250 you just need DELIVERY Confirmation, above and it requires Signature Confirmation, that easy.You most likely as a buyer wouldn't win a Paypal dispute outside those rules, but a Chargeback almost 100% you would be OK.Bottom line is a seller needs to PROVE that an item gets in a buyers HANDS, just as a buyer can prove they paid a seller.i.e. 100% All insurances and Confirmations do is protect the SELLER, the buyer doesn't need to sign up for any of that malarkey.

I understand that there is that stipulation for items over $250. My question is, let's suppose the item was $12 cheaper at $249. In that case, would you leave the seller be, since he obviously sent the item and was not required to do Signature confirmation? Would you refrain from filing a chargeback, knowing full well the money would end up coming from the seller, who had no fault in this?

Let me ask you this, say you ordered a neon sign to be made and installed for your business, the business makes the sign, and on the way to deliver and install it a DRUNK hits the truck destroying your sign, would you pay? Of course not, it's not your problem what happened, you still don't have a sign, if the sign co. has to sue the drunk so be it, not your problem, right? So they make a new sign, deliver it to your business and put it up, you are about to pay the sign company when the whole thing comes crashing down because the bolts holding it to the building weren't done right, again not your problem, should have made sure it was secured right. I do 'feel' for the business but a business has to protect itself with some type of insurance barring any special agreements with the buyer. Say you sell lost cost items, it might be cheaper just to ship them without protection of any kind and just EAT the cost of a resend on a few that get lost or stolen.

My story:

$950 ring stolen in my building after delivery, never recovered.

Ordered from online jewerly store I used many times before. I live in a large co-op doorman secured building, with separate room for incoming packages. Ring was shipped in plain plastic bag, no box. Ring was scanned in as delivered onsite the building, but was not in my postal box. Not in special package room, not anywhere.

I was livid. I asked for a co-op investigation, nothing came out. I talked to our postal delivery guys, nothing they remembered. I went and filed a police report. I was told police do not interfere in postal service, so I filed a separate report with postmaster general.

Outcome: jewerly company required a notarized letter I did not get the ring. Provided letter and postal report. They refunded the money. No charge-back on CC card was necessary.

Further outcome: company had my zipcode as 'not likely to be stolen' so it shipped in plain bag vs box, UNINSURED!!! If it was shipped in a box, it would go to special delivery room and get signed in and recorded by doorman.

I would give anything to have that ring. Now must be 5 years later, still think about it.

USPS is the WORST for both buyers and Sellers, they give you vague information , provide zero protection against delivery negligence, and I seriously doubt you can sue the Postal Service in small claims court.

brettdoyle said:   Paypal disputes are a kangaroo court... the buyer always wins.

Not is shown as delivered and with the proper DC.

I have had 6 or so cases of the buyer saying unauth use of his credit card.
All for laptops, PP takes the money back.
I provide what they wanted and money is returned in 3 weeks or so.
No big deal.

Nevermind