Bought 4, Received 1

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CrazierRus said:   respdoc said:   CrazierRus said:    If you want to add me to your blocked bidders list feel free to PM for eBay ID. If you are a normal seller you have nothing to worry about


Again, records accountability is your issue. Unless noted in the auction, a special request (as yours is)...is exactly that: a special request.

If it filled...great. If not, it shouldn't have any bearing on feedback.

It's sad to see over the years that feedback has turned from a "heads up" for other sellers/buyers..to a "lets see how much we can manipulate that person/company to do/get what we want."


So..if you are a normal buyer..with normal expectations..you'll have nothing to worry about.


Making assumptions that I manipulate any seller is pretty... assumptive.

I am a seller myself and I get plenty of requests when I sell my inventory and I feel it's my job as a seller to make sure that a buyer is satisfied, as long as it's a reasonable request. I think that asking a seller to print a piece of paper (or even simply handwrite item number on one) is pretty reasonable.




RE:
I think that asking a seller to print a piece of paper (or even simply handwrite item number on one) is pretty reasonable.



Why is that even needed to be asked for?
It is standard practice to include something with the item.
Even if it is a big FO card.
Oh my, did I say that?

CrazierRus said:   

Making assumptions that I manipulate any seller is pretty... assumptive.

I am a seller myself and I get plenty of requests when I sell my inventory and I feel it's my job as a seller to make sure that a buyer is satisfied, as long as it's a reasonable request. I think that asking a seller to print a piece of paper (or even simply handwrite item number on one) is pretty reasonable.



Just telling it..like it is.

Again...no one said you couldn't print out invoices, per special request...or sent your items in requested Hello Kitty wrapping paper, if you want. The dispute comes from other cowboys thinking if a seller doesn't do their record keeping or honor other special requests (terms not specified in the auction listing)...it's an automatic bad review.

respdoc said:   CrazierRus said:   

Making assumptions that I manipulate any seller is pretty... assumptive.

I am a seller myself and I get plenty of requests when I sell my inventory and I feel it's my job as a seller to make sure that a buyer is satisfied, as long as it's a reasonable request. I think that asking a seller to print a piece of paper (or even simply handwrite item number on one) is pretty reasonable.



Just telling it..like it is.

Again...no one said you couldn't print out invoices, per special request...or sent your items in requested Hello Kitty wrapping paper, if you want. The dispute comes from other cowboys thinking if a seller doesn't do their record keeping or honor other special requests (terms not specified in the auction listing)...it's an automatic bad review.


Well, if we are switching to calling as whatever you feel like mode I think that you are one of the sellers who uses PM boxes wrapped in brown paper to ship it via Parcel post and crumbled toilet paper as filler and hand writes addresses in line at PO who got negged by somebody expecting a little more. How am I doing?

CrazierRus said:   

Well, if we are switching to calling as whatever you feel like mode I think that you are one of the sellers who uses PM boxes wrapped in brown paper to ship it via Parcel post and crumbled toilet paper as filler and hand writes addresses in line at PO who got negged by somebody expecting a little more. How am I doing?


My apologies. I had no idea I was talking to a small child.

I don't get why every thread yesidonoitall participates in needs to turn into a packing slip discussion.

BrianGa said:   I don't get why every thread yesidonoitall participates in needs to turn into a packing slip discussion.


In this discussion it was brought up that the op bought 4 items and received 1.
If the ps said 1 then it was an obvious oversight by the seller.
If it said 4, then a possible worse scenario could develop.

As it turned out it was a poor seller who did not include the ps.
A packing slip provides a multitude of information to those who would know that who have ever seen one.

yesidonoitall said:   BrianGa said:   I don't get why every thread yesidonoitall participates in needs to turn into a packing slip discussion.


In this discussion it was brought up that the op bought 4 items and received 1.
If the ps said 1 then it was an obvious oversight by the seller.
If it said 4, then a possible worse scenario could develop.

As it turned out it was a poor seller who did not include the ps.
A packing slip provides a multitude of information to those who would know that who have ever seen one.
I'm the OP. I never said if a packing slip was included or not. Frankly, I didn't notice. I would have thrown it out anyway.

BrianGa said:   yesidonoitall said:   BrianGa said:   I don't get why every thread yesidonoitall participates in needs to turn into a packing slip discussion.


In this discussion it was brought up that the op bought 4 items and received 1.
If the ps said 1 then it was an obvious oversight by the seller.
If it said 4, then a possible worse scenario could develop.

As it turned out it was a poor seller who did not include the ps.
A packing slip provides a multitude of information to those who would know that who have ever seen one.
I'm the OP. I never said if a packing slip was included or not. Frankly, I didn't notice. I would have thrown it out anyway.



But if one was included would have not guessed what happened if it showed 1 or 4?

what the f has this thread become? honey boo boo dont care.

respdoc said:   CrazierRus said:   

Well, if we are switching to calling as whatever you feel like mode I think that you are one of the sellers who uses PM boxes wrapped in brown paper to ship it via Parcel post and crumbled toilet paper as filler and hand writes addresses in line at PO who got negged by somebody expecting a little more. How am I doing?


My apologies. I had no idea I was talking to a small child.


I did not realize I was talking to a typing turd

yesidonoitall said:   I have never used excell....
Or even know how I would.....


I think part of the reason you are able to buy cell phones on eBay and resell elsewhere is due to the fact many seller do not include a packing slip.

Clearly you have a found a way to "add value" to the product by reselling w. a packing slip.
Why would you want to tell others of this fact?

rhino850 said:   yesidonoitall said:   I have never used excell....
Or even know how I would.....


I think part of the reason you are able to buy cell phones on eBay and resell elsewhere is due to the fact many seller do not include a packing slip.

Clearly you have a found a way to "add value" to the product by reselling w. a packing slip.
Why would you want to tell others of this fact?


Huh?

respdoc said:   Print off your own from Paypal. It's not a sellers fault you have a phone fetish. Unless you are buying from an actual business (either advertised as one or well known as one)...don't expect full business service. If you want full-service, I'll willing to bet any one of your local wireless phone stores are more than willing to take your money.

It's unfortunate that sellers like you (if you are a seller) set eBayers back years. Sellers selling on eBay are (often) actual businesses. Just because you sell out of your garage doesn't mean that you have to have a garage sale mentality. Both eBay and Amazon are pushing sellers to be more professional, and it really doesn't take that much effort.

For example, on Amazon, you must now confirm shipment (at least with carrier and there is a space for tracking or DC number) in order to get paid. On eBay, there are DSRs and different metrics to get TSR. Also metrics on Amazon to especially allow toy selling at Christmas (and other things that relate to being able to sell in certain cats and/or get FM status).

Back when you didn't have to confirm shipment on Amazon to get paid, I bought some mice from several sellers (same model, different sellers). I had reason to believe some might have UPCs removed, so I skipped buying from the ones who advertised UPC removed and emailed all who I did buy from telling them to cancel if it didn't have UPC. A few wrote back that it didn't and canceled. Others arrived, some without packing slips and since the tracking numbers had not been provided, it was hard to match up shipments with orders to be sure I got everything I paid for.

I had also taken some of the boxes over to the Hotel California (i.e. my storage place) further exacerbating the problem. It would have certainly been easier if all sellers had sent tracking numbers and included packing slips which I could have removed from the boxes before dropping them off.

I do find that most sellers (unlike some FWers) are pretty reasonable, however, and will include a PS upon request.

satchelsofgold said:   
If there is a transaction you can't match up to a package, you can request contact info for that transaction.

ETA: You can also, in most cases, match up delivery confirmation or tracking numbers to the numbers shown in My eBay.


Buyers shouldn't have to do this. Do you like to do this on your Staples, Amazon, Office Depot or Best Buy orders? Why should eBay buyers have to do this?

Also, in many cases, sellers don't provide a tracking or DC number (some don't even use tracking or DC).

Edited to correct nested quotes.

unit9174 said:   satchelsofgold said:   
If there is a transaction you can't match up to a package, you can request contact info for that transaction.

ETA: You can also, in most cases, match up delivery confirmation or tracking numbers to the numbers shown in My eBay.


Buyers shouldn't have to do this. Do you like to do this on your Staples, Amazon, Office Depot or Best Buy orders? Why should eBay buyers have to do this?

Also, in many cases, sellers don't provide a tracking or DC number (some don't even use tracking or DC).


yesido asked for a solution. I offered two. Then he kept changing the subject.

I don't order so much volume that I have trouble figuring out what came from who. If I did? Yeah, I would expect to have to take a few more minutes to match up orders. Just like anyone buying in huge quantities probably has to spend more time reconciling credit card statements, it comes with the territory.

But maybe I'm different. I wouldn't keep ordering from any site that didn't provide me with the level of service I required. If packing slips are so important, stop buying on eBay, and buy only from companies that provide packing slips. It's really that simple.

satchelsofgold said:   unit9174 said:   satchelsofgold said:   
If there is a transaction you can't match up to a package, you can request contact info for that transaction.

ETA: You can also, in most cases, match up delivery confirmation or tracking numbers to the numbers shown in My eBay.


Buyers shouldn't have to do this. Do you like to do this on your Staples, Amazon, Office Depot or Best Buy orders? Why should eBay buyers have to do this?

Also, in many cases, sellers don't provide a tracking or DC number (some don't even use tracking or DC).


yesido asked for a solution. I offered two. Then he kept changing the subject.

I don't order so much volume that I have trouble figuring out what came from who. If I did? Yeah, I would expect to have to take a few more minutes to match up orders. Just like anyone buying in huge quantities probably has to spend more time reconciling credit card statements, it comes with the territory.

But maybe I'm different. I wouldn't keep ordering from any site that didn't provide me with the level of service I required. If packing slips are so important, stop buying on eBay, and buy only from companies that provide packing slips. It's really that simple.



OK, I get it now.
We really do need to rid eBay of the 2nd class sellers.

...stop feeding the troll...

unit9174 said:   

It's unfortunate that sellers like you (if you are a seller) set eBayers back years. Sellers selling on eBay are (often) actual businesses. Just because you sell out of your garage doesn't mean that you have to have a garage sale mentality. Both eBay and Amazon are pushing sellers to be more professional, and it really doesn't take that much effort.

For example, on Amazon, you must now confirm shipment (at least with carrier and there is a space for tracking or DC number) in order to get paid. On eBay, there are DSRs and different metrics to get TSR. Also metrics on Amazon to especially allow toy selling at Christmas (and other things that relate to being able to sell in certain cats and/or get FM status).

Back when you didn't have to confirm shipment on Amazon to get paid, I bought some mice from several sellers (same model, different sellers). I had reason to believe some might have UPCs removed, so I skipped buying from the ones who advertised UPC removed and emailed all who I did buy from telling them to cancel if it didn't have UPC. A few wrote back that it didn't and canceled. Others arrived, some without packing slips and since the tracking numbers had not been provided, it was hard to match up shipments with orders to be sure I got everything I paid for.

I had also taken some of the boxes over to the Hotel California (i.e. my storage place) further exacerbating the problem. It would have certainly been easier if all sellers had sent tracking numbers and included packing slips which I could have removed from the boxes before dropping them off.


I do find that most sellers (unlike some FWers) are pretty reasonable, however, and will include a PS upon request.



Not sure what babble, or point, you're trying to make. The original discussion was about packing slips. Removing UPC barcodes and/or providing basic tracking information has nothing to do with special request packing slips. The only thing sad here...is buyers like you....aren't smart enough to know the difference between the three.

Wreptyle said:   ...stop feeding the troll...


Words from the eBay mentality book

respdoc said:   
Not sure what babble, or point, you're trying to make. The original discussion was about packing slips. Removing UPC barcodes and/or providing basic tracking information has nothing to do with special request packing slips. The only thing sad here...is buyers like you....aren't smart enough to know the difference between the three.


You clearly aren't too bright (and you claim I don't know the difference between removing barcodes, providing tracking and providing packing slips) if you don't understand what I said. The only sad thing here...is sellers like you...who can't distinguish between a reasonable request like getting a packing slip or just a handwritten note with the item number from a request for a foot massage or to have the item gift wrapped in Hello Kitty paper.

Let me try again and if you don't get it, you never will.

1. Currently on Amazon, it is necessary to confirm shipment (by selecting a carrier and optionally entering in tracking info and shipping service) and pressing the Confirm Shipment button in order to get paid. Several years ago, it was not necessary to do so. Different sellers had this functionality added to their accounts at different times.
2. I purchased the same item from several different sellers and had reason to believe some might not include the UPCs and in order to save myself the trouble of having to return the items, I emailed all sellers to be sure they did and cancel the orders if they did not.
3. Some sellers who had mislisted the items as new (even though they did not have UPCs intact) did cancel my orders but others did not.
4. When the items arrived, it was difficult to tell which was from whom. Sellers who don't have to confirm shipment might never provide tracking numbers, let alone include packing slips and the names may not match the seller names. Also, the invoices that can be printed from your Amazon account (unlike Paypal packing slips) have no return addresses, so satchel's solution wouldn't work. You would have to contact each seller individually, which a buyer shouldn't have to do.
5. And obviously, it was a concern of mine that I either get a refund or merchandise for each order I placed.

BTW, satchel posted the you could request the contact info for a transaction and match it with packages received. I suppose this is mostly true, but I get packages shipped from a pack and ship place or UPS Store from time to time, so that often wouldn't work and either way is unprofessional.

The better sellers (which apparently most FW sellers here are not) get it and many not only want to include a packing slip for the buyers benefit but as a promotional tool. They WANT buyers to remember who they bought from and to come back and buy more.

The worse sellers, like you, say "Unless you are buying from an actual business (either advertised as one or well known as one)...don't expect full business service." and perpetuate the "eBay is a giant garage sale" mentality that has driven a lot of buyers away. Oh and they also ignore reasonable requests like "Please include a packing slip or the item number with the shipment." Fortunately, close to 100% of sellers I have bought from have complied as it isn't much to ask.

Edited to correct nested quotes.

unit9174 said:   respdoc said:   unit9174 said:   
Not sure what babble, or point, you're trying to make. The original discussion was about packing slips. Removing UPC barcodes and/or providing basic tracking information has nothing to do with special request packing slips. The only thing sad here...is buyers like you....aren't smart enough to know the difference between the three.


You clearly aren't too bright (and you claim I don't know the difference between removing barcodes, providing tracking and providing packing slips) if you don't understand what I said. The only sad thing here...is sellers like you...who can't distinguish between a reasonable request like getting a packing slip or just a handwritten note with the item number from a request for a foot massage or to have the item gift wrapped in Hello Kitty paper.

Let me try again and if you don't get it, you never will.

1. Currently on Amazon, it is necessary to confirm shipment (by selecting a carrier and optionally entering in tracking info and shipping service) and pressing the Confirm Shipment button in order to get paid. Several years ago, it was not necessary to do so. Different sellers had this functionality added to their accounts at different times.
2. I purchased the same item from several different sellers and had reason to believe some might not include the UPCs and in order to save myself the trouble of having to return the items, I emailed all sellers to be sure they did and cancel the orders if they did not.
3. Some sellers who had mislisted the items as new (even though they did not have UPCs intact) did cancel my orders but others did not.
4. When the items arrived, it was difficult to tell which was from whom. Sellers who don't have to confirm shipment might never provide tracking numbers, let alone include packing slips and the names may not match the seller names. Also, the invoices that can be printed from your Amazon account (unlike Paypal packing slips) have no return addresses, so satchel's solution wouldn't work. You would have to contact each seller individually, which a buyer shouldn't have to do.
5. And obviously, it was a concern of mine that I either get a refund or merchandise for each order I placed.

BTW, satchel posted the you could request the contact info for a transaction and match it with packages received. I suppose this is mostly true, but I get packages shipped from a pack and ship place or UPS Store from time to time, so that often wouldn't work and either way is unprofessional.

The better sellers (which apparently most FW sellers here are not) get it and many not only want to include a packing slip for the buyers benefit but as a promotional tool. They WANT buyers to remember who they bought from and to come back and buy more.

The worse sellers, like you, say "Unless you are buying from an actual business (either advertised as one or well known as one)...don't expect full business service." and perpetuate the "eBay is a giant garage sale" mentality that has driven a lot of buyers away. Oh and they also ignore reasonable requests like "Please include a packing slip or the item number with the shipment." Fortunately, close to 100% of sellers I have bought from have complied as it isn't much to ask.



You'd be taken a little more seriously if you could first learn how to post correctly (hint: quoting everything including your current reply...isn't it).

Both eBay and Amazon have fairly easy ways to track past orders and obtain order numbers (including printing invoices on either system).

Unless you like pretending you're at the grocery checkout lines and like scanning barcodes...it's odd you'd ask before the item is even shipped if the barcode is removed (meaning that you're either reselling that product or submitting fraudulent rebate claims).

I really don't care which it is....as it does not change the fact you should learn to take accountability for your own business order record keeping.

respdoc said:   You'd be taken a little more seriously if you could first learn how to post correctly (hint: quoting everything including your current reply...isn't it).

Both eBay and Amazon have fairly easy ways to track past orders and obtain order numbers (including printing invoices on either system).

Unless you like pretending you're at the grocery checkout lines and like scanning barcodes...it's odd you'd ask before the item is even shipped if the barcode is removed (meaning that you're either reselling that product or submitting fraudulent rebate claims).

I really don't care which it is....as it does not change the fact you should learn to take accountability for your own business order record keeping.


If the best response you can get is that I didn't delete all of the Q and /Q tags and left it improperly formatted, it merely indicates that your underlying logic is quite weak.

Both Amazon and eBay will provide you with tracking numbers if the sellers print the label on those respective sites or enter it in on those respective sites (or Paypal). If they don't, or if they don't even use tracking at all, you will not be able to find it there.

Most of my Amazon Marketplace orders are FBA and Amazon usually includes a packing slip and always provides tracking info, so it is generally moot, but neither Amazon invoices printable by buyers nor Amazon packing slips printable by sellers have the seller's address on them. I just checked on both issues. The former has both the ship to and buyers billing address. The latter, only the shipping address (which may or may not be the billing address).

eBay does have the ship from address, but this may not actually be the return address on the label as noted above, some sellers ship from the UPS Store or other pack and ship location.

In either case, it might be impossible other than asking the seller for their return address in order to match the orders up. Sellers should show basic courtesy and professionalism ALL THE TIME. Part-time sellers might not have a clue but if it is brought to their attention by a buyer requesting the include the PS or item number, then they have no excuse.

It is also odd that you find it odd that I am concerned about UPCs. As YIDNIA, I also buy to resell and there are many others doing the same. Why is this odd to you?

Either way, garage sale mentality sellers who don't consider themselves to be actual businesses and don't believe they have to provide the most basic and reasonable services (Both CrazierRus and I have called complying with a request for a PS as reasonable. I'm sure YIDNIA and 90% of people on this planet would agree.) cause lack of confidence in eBay as anything but a second-hand store.

unit9174 said:   respdoc said:   You'd be taken a little more seriously if you could first learn how to post correctly (hint: quoting everything including your current reply...isn't it).

Both eBay and Amazon have fairly easy ways to track past orders and obtain order numbers (including printing invoices on either system).

Unless you like pretending you're at the grocery checkout lines and like scanning barcodes...it's odd you'd ask before the item is even shipped if the barcode is removed (meaning that you're either reselling that product or submitting fraudulent rebate claims).

I really don't care which it is....as it does not change the fact you should learn to take accountability for your own business order record keeping.


If the best response you can get is that I didn't delete all of the Q and /Q tags and left it improperly formatted, it merely indicates that your underlying logic is quite weak.

Both Amazon and eBay will provide you with tracking numbers if the sellers print the label on those respective sites or enter it in on those respective sites (or Paypal). If they don't, or if they don't even use tracking at all, you will not be able to find it there.

Most of my Amazon Marketplace orders are FBA and Amazon usually includes a packing slip and always provides tracking info, so it is generally moot, but neither Amazon invoices printable by buyers nor Amazon packing slips printable by sellers have the seller's address on them. I just checked on both issues. The former has both the ship to and buyers billing address. The latter, only the shipping address (which may or may not be the billing address).

eBay does have the ship from address, but this may not actually be the return address on the label as noted above, some sellers ship from the UPS Store or other pack and ship location.

In either case, it might be impossible other than asking the seller for their return address in order to match the orders up. Sellers should show basic courtesy and professionalism ALL THE TIME. Part-time sellers might not have a clue but if it is brought to their attention by a buyer requesting the include the PS or item number, then they have no excuse.

It is also odd that you find it odd that I am concerned about UPCs. As YIDNIA, I also buy to resell and there are many others doing the same. Why is this odd to you?

Either way, garage sale mentality sellers who don't consider themselves to be actual businesses and don't believe they have to provide the most basic and reasonable services (Both CrazierRus and I have called complying with a request for a PS as reasonable. I'm sure YIDNIA and 90% of people on this planet would agree.) cause lack of confidence in eBay as anything but a second-hand store.



Look at all this time you wasted...which could have been spent organizing your own transactions and not relying on others to do your busy work. As a seller, it is not my fault your capacity to organize your own purchases has been exceeded. If you want to though "play" business..you'd best be prepared to do business things. These would include having a dedicated person(s) to keep track of your in-bound orders/shipments.
Unfortunately, a lot of talk...little action...seems to be your forte, Mr. big-time "reseller".
Sadly though, I feel this won't be the end of the excuses.

respdoc said:   unit9174 said:   respdoc said:   You'd be taken a little more seriously if you could first learn how to post correctly (hint: quoting everything including your current reply...isn't it).

Both eBay and Amazon have fairly easy ways to track past orders and obtain order numbers (including printing invoices on either system).

Unless you like pretending you're at the grocery checkout lines and like scanning barcodes...it's odd you'd ask before the item is even shipped if the barcode is removed (meaning that you're either reselling that product or submitting fraudulent rebate claims).

I really don't care which it is....as it does not change the fact you should learn to take accountability for your own business order record keeping.


If the best response you can get is that I didn't delete all of the Q and /Q tags and left it improperly formatted, it merely indicates that your underlying logic is quite weak.

Both Amazon and eBay will provide you with tracking numbers if the sellers print the label on those respective sites or enter it in on those respective sites (or Paypal). If they don't, or if they don't even use tracking at all, you will not be able to find it there.

Most of my Amazon Marketplace orders are FBA and Amazon usually includes a packing slip and always provides tracking info, so it is generally moot, but neither Amazon invoices printable by buyers nor Amazon packing slips printable by sellers have the seller's address on them. I just checked on both issues. The former has both the ship to and buyers billing address. The latter, only the shipping address (which may or may not be the billing address).

eBay does have the ship from address, but this may not actually be the return address on the label as noted above, some sellers ship from the UPS Store or other pack and ship location.

In either case, it might be impossible other than asking the seller for their return address in order to match the orders up. Sellers should show basic courtesy and professionalism ALL THE TIME. Part-time sellers might not have a clue but if it is brought to their attention by a buyer requesting the include the PS or item number, then they have no excuse.

It is also odd that you find it odd that I am concerned about UPCs. As YIDNIA, I also buy to resell and there are many others doing the same. Why is this odd to you?

Either way, garage sale mentality sellers who don't consider themselves to be actual businesses and don't believe they have to provide the most basic and reasonable services (Both CrazierRus and I have called complying with a request for a PS as reasonable. I'm sure YIDNIA and 90% of people on this planet would agree.) cause lack of confidence in eBay as anything but a second-hand store.



Look at all this time you wasted...which could have been spent organizing your own transactions and not relying on others to do your busy work. As a seller, it is not my fault your capacity to organize your own purchases has been exceeded. If you want to "play" business..you'd best be prepared to do business things. These would include having a dedicated person(s) to keep track of your in-bound orders/shipments.
It seems though, a lot of talk...little action...seems to be your forte, Mr. big-time "reseller".
Sadly though, I feel this won't be the end of the excuses.



RE:
As a seller, it is not my fault your capacity to organize your own purchases has been exceeded. If you want to "play" business..be prepared to do business things


As a buyer do I need to curtail to your ineptness.

BrianGa said:   I don't get why every thread yesidonoitall participates in needs to turn into a packing slip discussion.

Don't feed the troll.

He has forgotten that eBay was started as a place for the average person to gain a wide audience of buyers. For whatever reason he thinks every grandmother on there selling extra sequined sweaters is the same as big box online retailers.

Loon probably asks for a packing slip at garage sales.

qube said:   BrianGa said:   I don't get why every thread yesidonoitall participates in needs to turn into a packing slip discussion.

Don't feed the troll.

He has forgotten that eBay was started as a place for the average person to gain a wide audience of buyers. For whatever reason he thinks every grandmother on there selling extra sequined sweaters is the same as big box online retailers.

Loon probably asks for a packing slip at garage sales.



What eBay was, was then, this is now......
They are hedging towards new items all with free s/h and only from good sellers.....
Only those with business savvy know how to go up the ladder.....

Look at Amazon, from books to what it is now......
If I wanted a book, Amazon would be the last place I would even buy one from.



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