eBay / PayPal loophole. Auction winner with non-US PayPal account does not meet my PayPal requirements!

I sold an item on eBay.

The winning bidder (100% positive feedback) contacts me saying he can't check out because his account is outside the US (turns out he is not registered with PayPal.com but with PayPal in another country).
I called eBay support and they said he can bid because his shipping address (as set up on his PayPal.xx account) is in the US.

My settings in PayPal that determine his inability to complete checkout are:
The checkbox next to 'Block payments sent to me in a currency I do not hold' is checked.
The checkbox next to 'Block payments from users who have non-US PayPal accounts' is also checked.

So, because eBay still allows such buyers to bid even though I only accept PayPal and the buyer does not meet one if not two of my requirements (not sure why this loophole exists since eBay and PayPal are now merged right?), here are the side effects:

1) I spent almost an hour between my phone chat and researching this situation online, including checking my settings in eBay and PayPal (the latter turned out to be the culprit that blocked the checkout).

2) I had to submit a cancellation request and wait for the buyer to respond (they have 7 days).

3) I have to hope the buyer does not leave me negative feedback out of spite (I, as the seller can't leave negative feedback for this transaction like the old days, so the buyer does not have to worry about leaving the seller unwarranted negative feedback)

4) Once the buyer accepts or rejects my cancellation request (if they reject, the txn is cancelled but not mutually, so no Final Value Fee (FVF) credit would be given, I have to then submit the 2nd chance offer to the second highest bidder.

Long story short, why does eBay allow buyers who do not meet some (two in this case) of my PayPal requirements to bid on my auction for which PayPal is my only accepted method of payment?

I also believe, if I had not blocked those types of buyers he would only be able to pay in non-US funds so I would have to pay the currency conversion fee?
Or could I somehow set my account up like this, changing one of the two settings in question (these are the 2 settings noted in all the posts I found) to yes and the other one to no and get paid in USD from a non-US PayPal account?:

Block payments sent to me in a currency I do not hold. YES (actually it is a checkbox, so checked equates to Yes)
Block payments from users who have non-US PayPal accounts. NO (actually it is a checkbox, so unchecked equates to No)

LighterWallet said:   I sold an item on eBay.

The winning bidder (100% positive feedback) contacts me saying he can't check out because his account is outside the US (turns out he is not registered with PayPal.com but with PayPal in another country).
I called eBay support and they said he can bid because his shipping address (as set up on his PayPal.xx account) is in the US.

My settings in PayPal that determine his inability to complete checkout are:
The checkbox next to 'Block payments sent to me in a currency I do not hold' is checked.
The checkbox next to 'Block payments from users who have non-US PayPal accounts' is also checked.

So, because eBay still allows such buyers to bid even though I only accept PayPal and the buyer does not meet one if not two of my requirements (not sure why this loophole exists since eBay and PayPal are now merged right?), here are the side effects:

1) I spent almost an hour between my phone chat and researching this situation online, including checking my settings in eBay and PayPal (the latter turned out to be the culprit that blocked the checkout).

2) I had to submit a cancellation request and wait for the buyer to respond (they have 7 days).

3) I have to hope the buyer does not leave me negative feedback out of spite (I, as the seller can't leave negative feedback for this transaction like the old days, so the buyer does not have to worry about leaving the seller unwarranted negative feedback)

4) Once the buyer accepts or rejects my cancellation request (if they reject, the txn is cancelled but not mutually, so no Final Value Fee (FVF) credit would be given, I have to then submit the 2nd chance offer to the second highest bidder.

Long story short, why does eBay allow buyers who do not meet some (two in this case) of my PayPal requirements to bid on my auction for which PayPal is my only accepted method of payment?


I also believe, if I had not blocked those types of buyers he would only be able to pay in non-US funds so I would have to pay the currency conversion fee?
Or could I somehow set my account up like this, changing one of the two settings in question (these are the 2 settings noted in all the posts I found) to yes and the other one to no and get paid in USD from a non-US PayPal account?:

Block payments sent to me in a currency I do not hold. YES (actually it is a checkbox, so checked equates to Yes)
Block payments from users who have non-US PayPal accounts. NO (actually it is a checkbox, so unchecked equates to No)

Can you clarify, did the buyer have a US eBay account?
I use BIN and IPR only (side benefit eCheck writers are also blocked)

I get prospective buyers quite often who are
US eBay account holders but non US PP account users.
My eBay is set to US buyers only with US addresses
(locations with a US zip code address anywhere) and PP to not allow non US PP payers)

They quite often contact me because they have a US eBay account and address and wonder why they cannot buy.
I do allow some to buy by changing PP for a short time.

RE:
If my PayPal account has buyers with non-US PayPal accounts blocked, then eBay should never have allowed such a bid in the first place,

If a non US eBay account holder was allowed to bid, I would say your eBay preferences are not set correctly.....

As far as a confirmed address...
PP dropped the requirement to send only to a confirmed address a long time ago.

LighterWallet said:   Thanks for the feedback.
The buyer's account location (as listed on eBay) is outside the US.


The good news is he agreed to cancel the transaction and did not give me any negative feedback.
I just got nervous since you never know who is on the other end...
Part of me feels bad ironically since he seems reasonable and had 100% positive feedback.

I ended up offering it (2nd chance) to the 4th highest bidder and completed that transaction instead.
The second highest bidder had already won one of my other two auctions for the same produce (I had several units available).
The 3rd highest had feedback of only (1).
The 4th bid was 8.9% less than the highest bid (only 99 cents below the 3rd bid). However, since the product was not a big ticket item I am 'okay' with it (would be 'fine' with it if it were not for the fact that it was a product that I had bought less than a week before the company announced a new model (vastly improved) available for immediate sale, so I lost at least 40% after eBay and PayPal fees (had to list them three times with it listed as 'used' actually selling better than 'mfr. refurbished').

In hindsight, knowing now I could change my PayPal setting to allow non-US bidders while still blocking foreign currency payments, I could consider opening up my PayPal once in a while when situations like this arise to allow non-US PayPal account holders to pay if they win, so long as they have a confirmed US address, no feedback issues and also force them to pay in USD (let them eat the ccy exchange fee) by still blocking buyers who pay in foreign currency.

Anyway, it all worked out.

The hassle (time and energy spent on it) was actually the biggest nuisance (the money 'lost' in this case was not a big deal).
I think eBay and PayPal need to better synch up in this scenario - If my PayPal account has buyers with non-US PayPal accounts blocked, then eBay should never have allowed such a bid in the first place, even more so given that eBay owns PayPal so they have full (read) access to a seller's PayPal setting values.

PP and eBay each reading your preferences would not work....
Many sellers will sell to non US PP account holders other than through eBay.
And vice versa....
eBay sales but not using Paypal, but their own cc precessing service,
many sellers believe and maybe so, the seller protection is better than with Paypal for non US sales.

However for eBay sales a seller needs to provide what buyers want, and currently it is Paypal.

yesidonoitall said:   LighterWallet said:   Thanks for the feedback.
The buyer's account location (as listed on eBay) is outside the US.


The good news is he agreed to cancel the transaction and did not give me any negative feedback.
I just got nervous since you never know who is on the other end...
Part of me feels bad ironically since he seems reasonable and had 100% positive feedback.

I ended up offering it (2nd chance) to the 4th highest bidder and completed that transaction instead.
The second highest bidder had already won one of my other two auctions for the same produce (I had several units available).
The 3rd highest had feedback of only (1).
The 4th bid was 8.9% less than the highest bid (only 99 cents below the 3rd bid). However, since the product was not a big ticket item I am 'okay' with it (would be 'fine' with it if it were not for the fact that it was a product that I had bought less than a week before the company announced a new model (vastly improved) available for immediate sale, so I lost at least 40% after eBay and PayPal fees (had to list them three times with it listed as 'used' actually selling better than 'mfr. refurbished').

In hindsight, knowing now I could change my PayPal setting to allow non-US bidders while still blocking foreign currency payments, I could consider opening up my PayPal once in a while when situations like this arise to allow non-US PayPal account holders to pay if they win, so long as they have a confirmed US address, no feedback issues and also force them to pay in USD (let them eat the ccy exchange fee) by still blocking buyers who pay in foreign currency.

Anyway, it all worked out.

The hassle (time and energy spent on it) was actually the biggest nuisance (the money 'lost' in this case was not a big deal).
I think eBay and PayPal need to better synch up in this scenario - If my PayPal account has buyers with non-US PayPal accounts blocked, then eBay should never have allowed such a bid in the first place, even more so given that eBay owns PayPal so they have full (read) access to a seller's PayPal setting values.

 

PP and eBay each reading your preferences would not work....
Many sellers will sell to non US PP account holders other than through eBay.
And vice versa....
eBay sales but not using Paypal, but their own cc precessing service,
many sellers believe and maybe so, the seller protection is better than with Paypal for non US sales.

However for eBay sales a seller needs to provide what buyers want, and currently it is Paypal.

I appreciate all the feedback!
However I am not sure how the example you cited is relevant to this situation:
PayPal's settings to block buyers apply to all sale venues (eBay, sales through other channels, craigslist, newspaper ads, 'for sale' forums etc.), so eBay reading the user's payPal blocking preferences would not conflict with other PayPal sales since the settings are global meaning that blocking is what I want to occur for all sales.
If my PayPal account says to block such payments it will apply to any sale (eBay or other), so I don't see any possible conflict.

Also in my example it is eBay that allowed him to bid.

1. My only accepted method of payment was defined as PayPal.
2. My PayPal setting blocks payments from such non-US PayPal buyers (whether it be an eBay sale or any other venue)
3. The buyer is a non-US PayPal member.

Given 1, 2 and 3: eBay could cross check my PayPal settings and block him from bidding knowing his PayPal account is a non-US account, knowing that I block such payments and knowing there is no alternate payment method allowed for this auction.
I don't see any reason eBay could not check my PayPal blocks under this scenario.

eBay Support said the buyer was allowed to bid because his shipping address is in the US. Their response implied that they (eBay) do not check sellers' PayPal blocks prior to allowing such bidders to place a bid, which baffles me since it clearly goes against my PayPal settings.
The question is why... I don't see any benefit to not checking since it only creates needless auction cancellations.
The only potential reason I can think of is that perhaps they hope the seller does not want to go through the cancellation and 2nd offer processes and hope the seller instead temporarily unblocks such buyers in their PayPal settings and then sets their PayPal settings back after receiving the buyer's payment.
Again, since the seller incurs fees either way, this still does not provide a good justification.

This alternate option (which you noted you have used at times), which some others in the threads I found said they did to get out of this predicament, is the only method to close the auction and seller obligations out properly, other than cancelling the transaction like I did (not wanting to incur issues or currency exchange fees etc.).

Long story short, I see no conflict or other reason why eBay can't simply confirm if such payments are blocked in PayPal if that is the only payment method.
Only if I had offered other payment methods on my auction (check, cash etc.) which can not block such buyers, then I could understand why eBay would allow him to bid...

Update:

So the irony is the 4th highest bidder is in PR!
FedEx ships Air Only to PR. Therefore I am going to have to use USPS (FedEx was over $60 - air-only to PR. They do ground for Alaska and Hawaii now, but still not for PR. USPS is about $17.50 to PR including both insurance signature confirmation).

I used to have the '48 states' only option checked but eBay changed at some point (I have not sold much in a while).
So today I blocked everything (including North America which includes Bermuda, Greenland, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Mexico and Canada - I almost overlooked this because you have to hit a checkbox to actually see all these sub countries that comprise 'North America').

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As to the initial situation that this thread / topic is about, it seems safe enough (can't block it automatically so might as well figure out the best option to dela with it going forward), plus I can still leave the 'do not accept currencies other than US' option active, they will have to incur the conversion fee.

I would just need to unblock payments from non-US PayPal accounts in my PayPal settings.
If anyone sees a downside to this, let me know (keeping in mind I can't block them from bidding on my auctions due to the 'loophole' if you will, so I am trying to find the best approach to deal with this situation automatically).

The only potential issue then would be a buyer who wins my auction and does not want to pay the conversion fee I suppose.

Agreed.
The USPS Priority Mail cost was in my post quoted post and is indeed much lower.
That is how I ended up shipping it during lunch today.

I only found out this weekend that PR is allowed, based on my settings in effect at the time of the auction.
Had I known PR (among other parts of NA outside the 48 contiguous states) was no longer blocked (this was my first buyer with a shipping address outside the 48 states), I would have either had it blocked already or would have stated 'USPS PM for territories outside the 48 states'.

Since this part (second chance offer, that turned out to be to PR) was on me (my own fault), I absorbed the slightly higher cost and shipped it (slightly higher than the second highest of the 3 units I sold; I actually ate $7.51 of shipping since I had a fixed cost to entice buyers, but that was my choice, so I am fine with it).

yesidonoitall said:   LighterWallet said:   Agreed.
The USPS Priority Mail cost was in my post quoted post and is indeed much lower.
That is how I ended up shipping it during lunch today.

I only found out this weekend that PR is allowed, based on my settings in effect at the time of the auction.
Had I known PR (among other parts of NA outside the 48 contiguous states) was no longer blocked (this was my first buyer with a shipping address outside the 48 states), I would have either had it blocked already or would have stated 'USPS PM for territories outside the 48 states'.

Since this part (second chance offer, that turned out to be to PR) was on me (my own fault), I absorbed the slightly higher cost and shipped it (slightly higher than the second highest of the 3 units I sold; I actually ate $7.51 of shipping since I had a fixed cost to entice buyers, but that was my choice, so I am fine with it).


What is the item, would it have fit in a flat rate envelope?
I get an amazing amount of smaller items in them, especially a box inside the legal size FRE

The item is a media (streaming) player.
I selected the taller (for lack of a better term) of the two medium flat rate boxes they offer, which was perfect (left just about enough little room for one air-filled pouch. I left it boxed in its original (small) box within the taller medium flat rate box.
It would not have fit in an envelope, unless I packed it all loose (player, remote and A/V cable, but it is too fragile for that).

And why didn't you want to ship to a foreign buyer with a domestic shipping address? The most you would lose is 1% additional PayPal fees. You probably lost more by doing a 2nd offer to the 4th highest bidder.

yesidonoitall said:   You can block non US dollar payments.
Also non US PP account holders...are there really two such separate options?

i know i can block payments in other currencies, but i would really love to be able to block non-US account holders (the extra 1% paypal fee is a major annoyance, particular on low margin sales).