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So, it's okay to offer obscene material for sale on eBay, but not okay to pay for it through PayPal?

Bouvas said: So, it's okay to offer obscene material for sale on eBay, but not okay to pay for it through PayPal?
You may sell adult items in the Mature Audiences section of eBay. You may not accept payPal for these items.

tlaxson said: finalquest said: Quick question. Can a PO box be a paypal confirmed address. Buyer paid with Paypal and his PO box says confirmed. Is there a risk shipping a package to this address?
Yes, PO Boxes can be confirmed. There's really no difference shipping to a PO Box instead of a street address, except you can only use USPS. In many ways PO Boxes are actually safer to ship to, because you don't face the possibility of a package being stolen from a front porch.


Just wanna say thanks tlaxson, your thread is much appreciated by me and others! You brought up a good point about PO Boxes that I didn't even think of hehe

EDIT: Just realized, how would signature confirmation work for PO Boxes for items over $250. I hope someone signs for this stuff

Just an FYI from my Paypal issues some time ago..

According to paypal, 'sufficiant evidence of delivery' is NOT simply a tracking number with a signature, yet everyone on here says that is all it is. I had a $1700 laptop STOLEN from me and I had it sent DHL with tracking and online signature. They simply told me that was not enough evidence and I needed to provide evidence the item was delivered. After talking on the phone to someone, we decided the only true means was a video tape of the delivery person giving the person, with ID checked, the item and watching the person open the item....

Paypal is a big scam. I followed SPP to the key (<7 days, tracking with signature, confirmed address, etc) yet they still screwed me.

As that say, its not IF you will get screwed with paypal but WHEN you will get screwed with paypal.

Myself, or any of my other friends who have paypal do not use it at all. Obviously my account is now limited, but we all go for USPS MO only (cashed at the PO) or cashiers check with a 2 week hole time. I do not believe my auction prices have suffered very much, and even if they have a bit.. it takes a while to make up another 1700 loss...

troutmd said: Just an FYI from my Paypal issues some time ago..

According to paypal, 'sufficiant evidence of delivery' is NOT simply a tracking number with a signature, yet everyone on here says that is all it is. I had a $1700 laptop STOLEN from me and I had it sent DHL with tracking and online signature. They simply told me that was not enough evidence and I needed to provide evidence the item was delivered. After talking on the phone to someone, we decided the only true means was a video tape of the delivery person giving the person, with ID checked, the item and watching the person open the item....

Paypal is a big scam. I followed SPP to the key (<7 days, tracking with signature, confirmed address, etc) yet they still screwed me.

As that say, its not IF you will get screwed with paypal but WHEN you will get screwed with paypal.

Myself, or any of my other friends who have paypal do not use it at all. Obviously my account is now limited, but we all go for USPS MO only (cashed at the PO) or cashiers check with a 2 week hole time. I do not believe my auction prices have suffered very much, and even if they have a bit.. it takes a while to make up another 1700 loss...


Didnt you have insurance? What about small claims court?

CATCH21 said: troutmd said: Just an FYI from my Paypal issues some time ago..

According to paypal, 'sufficiant evidence of delivery' is NOT simply a tracking number with a signature, yet everyone on here says that is all it is. I had a $1700 laptop STOLEN from me and I had it sent DHL with tracking and online signature. They simply told me that was not enough evidence and I needed to provide evidence the item was delivered. After talking on the phone to someone, we decided the only true means was a video tape of the delivery person giving the person, with ID checked, the item and watching the person open the item....

Paypal is a big scam. I followed SPP to the key (<7 days, tracking with signature, confirmed address, etc) yet they still screwed me.

As that say, its not IF you will get screwed with paypal but WHEN you will get screwed with paypal.

Myself, or any of my other friends who have paypal do not use it at all. Obviously my account is now limited, but we all go for USPS MO only (cashed at the PO) or cashiers check with a 2 week hole time. I do not believe my auction prices have suffered very much, and even if they have a bit.. it takes a while to make up another 1700 loss...


Didnt you have insurance? What about small claims court?


Yes I had insurance, but the package was delivered per DHL with signature. Yet, thats not enough proof for Paypal.

I had the negative balance of 1700 in my paypal account then they STOLE the money from my Discover Card. I filed a chargeback to Paypal from Discover and won that so I am back even. Obviously my paypal account is locked or limited or whatever, but even if it wasnt, I would be VERY afraid to ever use it.

You have been warned!

Great thread!

I'd like a little clarification on something that was posted in the FAQ of this thread:
If I am shipping via USPS (US Postal Service, not UPS) and want to qualify for PayPal's SPP (Seller Protection Plan / Policy) for an item OVER $250, do I need
a) BOTH Delivery Confirmation (DC) AND Signature Confirmation (SC)
or
b) just Signature Confirmation?

Thanks!

LighterWallet said: Great thread!

I'd like a little clarification on something that was posted in the FAQ of this thread:
If I am shipping via USPS (US Postal Service, not UPS) and want to qualify for PayPal's SPP (Seller Protection Plan / Policy) for an item OVER $250, do I need
a) BOTH Delivery Confirmation (DC) AND Signature Confirmation (SC)
or
b) just Signature Confirmation?

Thanks!

SC is DC, it just gets a sig too. So, you only need one of them. If your item is $250+, get SC.

tlaxson said: LighterWallet said: Great thread!

I'd like a little clarification on something that was posted in the FAQ of this thread:
If I am shipping via USPS (US Postal Service, not UPS) and want to qualify for PayPal's SPP (Seller Protection Plan / Policy) for an item OVER $250, do I need
a) BOTH Delivery Confirmation (DC) AND Signature Confirmation (SC)
or
b) just Signature Confirmation?

Thanks!

SC is DC, it just gets a sig too. So, you only need one of them. If your item is $250+, get SC.


Thanks a lot! Will do.
I assumed that was most likely the case, but better to double check than be sorry later...

So my auction yesterday, I have a bad feeling about the buyer... they have no feedback on eBay and just made the account yesterday. But yet they have a confirmed address on paypal that I am sending to. I'm just going to make sure I follow all the steps for the protection policy and I should be okay right?

1. I have a premier account
2. I will ship the item tomorrow (monday 2 days after)
3. I will get Sig Confirm, track/ship, etc
4. Item will be insured for 850 (value of auction)
5. The address I'm shipping to is confirmed.


Anything left that I forgot?? I'm sending it express via USPS.


Note: I'm feeling very ify on sending it to this person... just seems like a scam... so I'm relying on SPP.

MosDeft said: How would signature confirmation work for PO Boxes for items over $250. I hope someone signs for this stuff
The buyer would get a note in their box to go to the counter to sign for the package. It's the same thing that happens when you send a package that needs a sig to a residential address; if no one is home to sign, the postal carrier leaves a notice so the recipient can either arrange redelivery or pick up the item in person at the post office.

A buyer won an auction on Thursday, Dec. 15th (Xbox 360) paid via Paypal and requested USPS Priority Mail. I sent item on Dec. 16th to her confirmed Paypal address, using USPS priority with DC and insurance (which requires signature). The package has not arrived as of today, Dec 21st. She is leaving for a XMAS trip tomorrow and wanted the XBOX for a gift. I have provided her all info on tracking, etc. Now she is upset at me, demanding refund because of slow delivery. I smell a chargeback coming here. I am sure the item will arrive when she is gone but now she does not want it. I believe I followed all PPs instructions under the SPP and the item did qualify.

Any suggestions about what my fate will be with this?

Hi,

Great thread OP, lots of important information.

Here is my story and questions. I have been a member on eBay for 4 years. I am both, buyer and seller but I am rather occasional seller.

My PP account is 4-years old. I opened it with paypal when checking account was an option rather than a definite requirement. My account however is a premier account, not personal as it is indicated on the Account page. My account always has a valid CC attached which I change time to time. I managed to maintain my account this way for as long as I have it despite constant paypal remiders to attach a checking account.

As a seller I resisted taking paypal payments until very recent time. Nowadays however, if you have no paypal as your payment method, you are losing the sales, so I had to start accepting it. Since I am Unverified in terms of paypal (no checking account), I have "Ineligible" displaying against Seller Protection Policy.

Now are the questions:
  • Knowing that it is the easiest for PP to take the funds from the checking account, do I still want to attach a checking account?
  • If I have a chargeback or reversal, can I file the chargeback with my CC myself?

    Due to familiy situation, I needed to sell my rather exensive digital camera on eBay. The auction was won by a bidder with feedback = 1. I am not sure what to do: If I will follow every single SPP rule except attaching an account (ship USPS Priority with Signature, ship within 1 week and all that jazz), will PP consider my side of the story in case of chargeback? Without me attaching an account? TIA

sleepybubba said: My PP account is 4-years old. I opened it with paypal when checking account was an option rather than a definite requirement. My account however is a premier account, not personal as it is indicated on the Account page. My account always has a valid CC attached which I change time to time. I managed to maintain my account this way for as long as I have it despite constant paypal remiders to attach a checking account.

As a seller I resisted taking paypal payments until very recent time. Nowadays however, if you have no paypal as your payment method, you are losing the sales, so I had to start accepting it. Since I am Unverified in terms of paypal (no checking account), I have "Ineligible" displaying against Seller Protection Policy.

Now are the questions:
  • Knowing that it is the easiest for PP to take the funds from the checking account, do I still want to attach a checking account?
  • If I have a chargeback or reversal, can I file the chargeback with my CC myself?

    Due to familiy situation, I needed to sell my rather exensive digital camera on eBay. The auction was won by a bidder with feedback = 1. I am not sure what to do: If I will follow every single SPP rule except attaching an account (ship USPS Priority with Signature, ship within 1 week and all that jazz), will PP consider my side of the story in case of chargeback? Without me attaching an account? TIA
    Have you considered opening a free checking account with a local bank and keeping a minimum amount in it? That way you can be verified and SPP-eligible, but your main checking account(s) are not touchable by PayPal.

    If you are not SPP-eligible, you are at risk. Only your buyer knows if he will pursue any shenanigans.

    As for whether you can file a chargeback from your CC yourself, I assume you mean as a buyer. If that's the case, the PayPal UA directs you to file with PayPal first. If they cannot make you whole, then go to your CC. Going to your CC first is grounds under the UA for immediate suspension of your PayPal account.

tlaxson said: As for whether you can file a chargeback from your CC yourself, I assume you mean as a buyer.
No, I meant as a seller. Let's assume I have a chargeback against my account. Since PP doesn't have my checking account it would go against my credit card, right? Now wouldn't it be my turn to dispute the charge with my CC pending I have all the tracking information and pictures at hands?

sleepybubba said: tlaxson said: As for whether you can file a chargeback from your CC yourself, I assume you mean as a buyer.
No, I meant as a seller. Let's assume I have a chargeback against my account. Since PP doesn't have my checking account it would go against my credit card, right? Now wouldn't it be my turn to dispute the charge with my CC pending I have all the tracking information and pictures at hands?

Nope, doesn't work that way. You can chargeback purchases, but you can't do as you propose. Even if you could, it'd mean instant PayPal suspension, I suspect.

With all due respect, I find PP's SPP draconian. I am thinking about stopping using PP on a big ticket items alltogether.

tlaxson said: sleepybubba said: My PP account is 4-years old. I opened it with paypal when checking account was an option rather than a definite requirement. My account however is a premier account, not personal as it is indicated on the Account page. My account always has a valid CC attached which I change time to time. I managed to maintain my account this way for as long as I have it despite constant paypal remiders to attach a checking account.

As a seller I resisted taking paypal payments until very recent time. Nowadays however, if you have no paypal as your payment method, you are losing the sales, so I had to start accepting it. Since I am Unverified in terms of paypal (no checking account), I have "Ineligible" displaying against Seller Protection Policy.

Now are the questions:
  • Knowing that it is the easiest for PP to take the funds from the checking account, do I still want to attach a checking account?
  • If I have a chargeback or reversal, can I file the chargeback with my CC myself?

    Due to familiy situation, I needed to sell my rather exensive digital camera on eBay. The auction was won by a bidder with feedback = 1. I am not sure what to do: If I will follow every single SPP rule except attaching an account (ship USPS Priority with Signature, ship within 1 week and all that jazz), will PP consider my side of the story in case of chargeback? Without me attaching an account? TIA
    Have you considered opening a free checking account with a local bank and keeping a minimum amount in it? That way you can be verified and SPP-eligible, but your main checking account(s) are not touchable by PayPal.

    If you are not SPP-eligible, you are at risk. Only your buyer knows if he will pursue any shenanigans.

    As for whether you can file a chargeback from your CC yourself, I assume you mean as a buyer. If that's the case, the PayPal UA directs you to file with PayPal first. If they cannot make you whole, then go to your CC. Going to your CC first is grounds under the UA for immediate suspension of your PayPal account.
    I opened up a free checking account on Wachovia - no fees and no minimum balance requirement. You have to put $100 in to open it, but you get a free ATM card and can take it right back out.

man u guys make me scared. All my auctions have ended. Payments received and shipments made. Shall I just close my PP account and open it new again ?

From

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/seller/ChargebackRisk-outside


Quote:

PayPal reserves the right not to dispute a chargeback even if the seller has provided some evidence, particularly if PayPal believes the dispute is not likely to be successful.

My buyer having paypal confirmed address as po box and want me to ship the item to street address. My auction terms clearly says, I don't ship to PO box and I ship to paypal conformed address. I refunded payment and asked for payment with confirmed address or arrange for another form of payment.

Now, my buyer threaten me to report me against eBay and wants to give negative feedback. The item is a high value item and I doubt the buyer's intention.

How can I report to eBay for feedback extortion?
Also, if I open a non paying buyer dispute, will that help to remove his feedback if he goes for -ve?
Also, how risky it is to ship it to POBox Confirmed paypal address? The item price is over $250, how to get the signature? Will USPS collect the signature for POBOX delivery? Will I be covered by paypal?

i have a question

when you ship express mail, it automatically gives you signature confirmation, except that it is not available online. is there any way to get this to show online? or should we just not allow for express mail to be used when sending an item >250?

thanks

1) How long after an eBay sale can a PayPal buyer claim INR or SNAD?

2) How long after an eBay sale can a buyer who paid by other means (e.g. USPS money order) claim INR or SNAD?

I am not currently in this boat, but given the fact that some buyers (very few in my experience) don't leave feedback after receiving the item, I would like to know when they officially won't be able to file a claim.

I am especially interested since a co-worker sold an item (a little over $250) a number of months ago and the CSR at the shipping center forgot to enter 'signature required' when processng her package (unless she forgot to ask for the service at the time).
The buyer (0) feedback, never let her know if he received the item.
So far no problems / complaints and my co-worker (the seller) told me it has been almost four months since the sale occurred, but I am curious nevertheless...

LighterWallet said: 1) How long after an eBay sale can a PayPal buyer claim INR or SNAD?

2) How long after an eBay sale can a buyer who paid by other means (e.g. USPS money order) claim INR or SNAD?

I am not currently in this boat, but given the fact that some buyers (very few in my experience) don't leave feedback after receiving the item, I would like to know when they officially won't be able to file a claim.

I am especially interested since a co-worker sold an item (a little over $250) a number of months ago and the CSR at the shipping center forgot to enter 'signature required' when processng her package (unless she forgot to ask for the service at the time).
The buyer (0) feedback, never let her know if he received the item.
So far no problems / complaints and my co-worker (the seller) told me it has been almost four months since the sale occurred, but I am curious nevertheless...

Buyers have 45 days to file with paypal/eBay. If the fund PP with a CC, they may have far longer.

LighterWallet said:
2) How long after an eBay sale can a buyer who paid by other means (e.g. USPS money order) claim INR or SNAD?


LOL... if you take the mo to a post office and cash it, they have no way to stop the funds after that. There is no such thing as INR or SNAD for money orders.

There is one way to alleviate yourself from all of this PayPal crap. Just ask for money orders for your auctions. By receiving a money order the ball is in your court as a seller. You will not have to worry that after a few months a chargeback will appear on your PayPal account. If a buyer has not received your item and has not payed for insurance it is there loss (and after 400 auctions I have 0 lost packages). I used to operate via PayPal for all of my auctions until one day I had a chargeback on my account. The entire thing was totally a fraud from the buyer, and the worst thing about the whole deal is PayPal charged me a $10.00 transaction fee for the chargeback. Needless to say I don't deal with Paypal anymore and only accept cashiers checks and money orders.

Yes I may be missing out on potential sales by not accepting Paypal, but it certainly gives me piece of mind.

I recently sold a laptop on eBay. In the item description it was clearly stated that the laptop was on display at Office Depot for 4 days. It also said in the description that the battery holds a 100% charge. So now its been 2 weeks and the buyer says that the battery only holds an 89% charge. And he's threatening to report me to eBay and paypal. Does he have a case, he said he wants solve it in "friendly" terms before doing this. BUT I KNOW that it held a 100% charge. I have no other pictures or proof. If in fact he does report me, what kind of steps will paypal take?

I just sold something for >$4,000. The guy already paid me via paypal, but he has an unconfirmed address (a work location) and I know it is not covered by SPP. I only have the buyer's name, work address, and phone number he gave me. He has a confirmed paypal account. I'm a little confused about what to do in this situation? If he does some kind of chargeback/reversal it seems my only option would be to take him to court? I've taken pictures of the item and will use tracking and signature required. Is there anything else I should do to protect myself?

VPaT25 said: I recently sold a laptop on eBay. In the item description it was clearly stated that the laptop was on display at Office Depot for 4 days. It also said in the description that the battery holds a 100% charge. So now its been 2 weeks and the buyer says that the battery only holds an 89% charge. And he's threatening to report me to eBay and paypal. Does he have a case, he said he wants solve it in "friendly" terms before doing this. BUT I KNOW that it held a 100% charge. I have no other pictures or proof. If in fact he does report me, what kind of steps will paypal take?
Assuming you followed all of the SPP requirements, the buyer will have to file a SNAD claim. PayPal is *supposed* to have the buyer provide independent verification of the SNAD claim, but they don't always. If PayPal rules in your buyer's favor, he would have to ship the item back at his own expense and you would have to refund.

Did you have any sort of guarantee in your listing? IMO, it's not a great idea to warrant any kind of consumable such as a battery except for the usual "it will hold a charge".

It really sounds to me like your buyer is having buyer's remorse. You can tell him no return, no negotiation if you wish. Do be aware that he can file than SNAD, and he can neg you. Unless you've already left feedback, you can neg him in return.

MarketVViz said: I just sold something for >$4,000. The guy already paid me via paypal, but he has an unconfirmed address (a work location) and I know it is not covered by SPP. I only have the buyer's name, work address, and phone number he gave me. He has a confirmed paypal account. I'm a little confused about what to do in this situation? If he does some kind of chargeback/reversal it seems my only option would be to take him to court? I've taken pictures of the item and will use tracking and signature required. Is there anything else I should do to protect myself?
He has a verified PayPal account, you mean. Verification means nothing for you. It's the confirmed address that matters.

What did your TOS say? If you required a confirmed address, then simply refund the payment and ask the buyer to either confirm his address and resubmit payment, or to pay via some alternate method (you specify which options you will accept).

If you did not specify a confirmed address in your TOS, you have 3 choices:
a) Refund and refuse to sell. You will probably get a neg and a nonselling seller slap. As long as you don't make a habit of this, the NSS won't affect your selling account.
b) Refund the PayPal payment, and ask that it be resent using some alternate method. Your buyer may balk, file the NSS, and neg you. or he may not.
c) ship with tracking, sig required, etc. Since this is such an expensive item, try to restrict delivery to the person to whom the package is addressed. Then wait and see. Keep all the paperwork, tracking info, etc in hard copy in case you need to take any actions should the buyer attempt to defraud you.

I never explicitly said the word guarantee. But it says "battery holds 100%" charge. Do you think I can dispute it on grounds th 89% falls into a normal battery's time and the 1:50 hr is a normal time, and do you think I can argue windows battery control isn't "perfect."

How can I guarantee the buyer will give me the laptop back in pristine condition?

VPaT25 said: I never explicitly said the word guarantee. But it says "battery holds 100%" charge. Do you think I can dispute it on grounds th 89% falls into a normal battery's time and the 1:50 hr is a normal time, and do you think I can argue windows battery control isn't "perfect."
How much communication have you had with this guy? What exactly is he asking for? A partial refund? A return and full refund? IMO, if he's asking for a partial and you are sure any concession is unwarranted, he's not unhappy enough to return it. If he's not unhappy enough to return, he's really not that unhappy, and doesn't need a partial refund.
How can I guarantee the buyer will give me the laptop back in pristine condition?
You can't. If it should be sent back in a condition other than you sent it, you have various options available including disputing the PayPal reversal and filing fraud charges. But don't worry about that at this point. You aren't yet to the point of having to deal with this.

When I told him about the battery being aroun 60 bucks, he said he will take no less than half of that from me. Then he said if you're not okay with this then hes gonna file for a FULL refund with paypal...

This guy also has 2 ongoing disputes as a seller selling chinese versions of CTS navigation systems.

I was going to settle this with 30 dollars to him, seeing he seemed genuine. But now, I'd feel better if there was a 3rd party involved, as to prove I sent 30 dollars to him. But as for now he hasn't filed ( He seems like a prude that will file though). Will they take feedback into account? I have feedback of 8 and him 200+...

I'd really not want to give a full refund and receive my laptop back, because then i'd have to go through everything again.

Oh yeah, the paypal refund? will it include shipping, eBay fees, and the 3% paypal fee?

VPaT25 said: When I told him about the battery being aroun 60 bucks, he said he will take no less than half of that from me. Then he said if you're not okay with this then hes gonna file for a FULL refund with paypal...

This guy also has 2 ongoing disputes as a seller selling chinese versions of CTS navigation systems.

I was going to settle this with 30 dollars to him, seeing he seemed genuine. But now, I'd feel better if there was a 3rd party involved, as to prove I sent 30 dollars to him. But as for now he hasn't filed ( He seems like a prude that will file though). Will they take feedback into account? I have feedback of 8 and him 200+...

Oh yeah, the paypal refund? will it include shipping, eBay fees, and the 3% paypal fee?

If you think a partial refund is in your best interest, then do it. Just be sure you do it through PayPal, and do it the right way. Go to the transaction page, scroll down, and hit refund. The fees you paid on whatever amount you refund will be credited back.

If he files with PayPal, then the amount of the original payment will be frozen in your account. If your account doesn't have that much in it, your account will be locked until either the dispute is resolved or you get enough in there to put you at a positive balance. If he wins the dispute, then he has to ship back the item with proof of delivery (with a sig on delivery). Once PayPal verifies you have it back, they send the frozen funds to the buyer. Again, if your account is not in the black, your account will be frozen until you bring it back up. Yes, PayPal can and will send you to collections if you don't pay them back. All the fees your account was charged would be credited back. You would essentially be out the listing and final value fees, shipping one way, and the lost opportunity cost. The refund back to the buyer is the total you charged him - item price + shipping/handling/insurance.

Oh, and no, feedback is not taken into account.

Tlaxson, thanks for all of your help.

It's good to know there are still altruistic people out there for the betterment of others. Your kindness really struck a part of my heart. With no benefit for yourself, you still helped me. Thanks a lot man

Good stuff in this FAQ.

I just had a $1000 transaction. Buyer has perfect feedback, but took two days to respond, and finally paid using an unconfirmed address. My terms clearly stated that I only ship to confirmed addresses, and I'll try to work things with the buyer, but would you immediately refund or would you give him a chance to fix his confirmation status with PayPal?

Is there anything I can do to help the buyer get his address confirmed with PayPal?

Does PayPal ever tell sellers (or buyers) what aspect of the AVS check failed?

In the meantime, I've updated my profile to "ask me" for payments for unconfirmed addresses.

wabmester said: would you immediately refund or would you give him a chance to fix his confirmation status with PayPal?
If you want to get a confirmed address, you HAVE to refund and have the buyer resubmit payment. If he confirms his address now but you don't get a new payment, then it will not show as confirmed for that payment and you will not have SPP.

That said, PayPal has reported issues with the confirmed address system, and says that all payments made from Jan 21 until they fix it will be SPP eligible regardless of confirmation as long as you meet all other criteria. Read the announcement from PayPal here.

So, for this particular instance, if you got this payment on Jan 21 or later, you can ship and still be SPP eligible despite the apparent lack of a confirmed address.

Cool! This seems like it'd be a great time to finally use all of those stolen credit cards I've been collecting!

wabmester said: Cool! This seems like it'd be a great time to finally use all of those stolen credit cards I've been collecting!

haha... ... ...

hope you're joking

VPaT25 said: hope you're joking

Yeah, but it does seem like a seriously weak window of opportunity.

I ended up refunding my "unconfirmed" buyer and asked him to send me a money order.



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