Once buyer submits a feedback and acknowledges the receipt of the item can we use as another proof. Will paypal considers this?

how come no one mentions Fedex .I use fedex most of the time any problems I should know about?

I just want to bring attention to the other side of the story: buying with Paypal.

For one thing, this thread has not covered much about Paypal complaint process; for another, there seems to be some misunderstanding in this board (or I could be wrong) about the process.

Paypal has Buyer Complaint Process (BCP) as a built-in protection program for Paypal payments. BCP USED to cover INR claims but not SNAD claims. However, since January 2005, Paypal has extended BCP to cover SNAD on eBay items as well.

For eBay items, Paypal offers sellers a program called Buyer Protection (BPP), which covers both INR and SNAD cases. The enrollment is AUTOMATIC as soon as a seller meets certain criteria, and you have to call to opt out.

IT's not so much that the buyer has a choice either to file with BCP or BPP for eBay items. There is only one complaint process and the claim will be taken over to BPP automatically if the item has BPP, otherwise it'll be a BCP claim.

Since the careless buyers won't notice if an eBay item has BPP or not, it used to be advantageous to opt out BPP, so that buyer can file INR claims only. But Paypal has defeated the strategy by January's extension.

To sum up, for eBay sellers it makes no difference if you are in or out of BPP; for non-eBay sellers it makes no difference either.

And quite contrary to common understanding, selling off eBay has slightly MORE protection for seller since buyer cannot file SNAD with Paypal. However, seller still lose the money if buyer file SNAD via cc chargeback. See subsection 2.b.ii of SPP policy.

Paypal Buyer Complaint Process
Paypal Buyer Protection
Paypal Seller Protection Policy

This might deserve its own thread but I don't feel knowledgeable enough to maintain. tlaxon you are welcome to do so if you wish.

troutmd said:Did you read any of my posts? I have been screwed out of just shy of $1700!! I sold an item on eBay, the guy recieved it with no problems. Many weeks later, paypal places a hold for -1700 on my account (no money was in there because I had pulled it all out). THey tell me the guy paid with a stolen credit card. I had his phone and email. I talked to him, he tells me he didnt even pay with a CC but with bank transfer. Talk to paypal again, they tell me they never recieved his money. I call him back, he gives me his banks number and the wire transfer number. I call the bank, and confirm it was recieved by paypal. This is when it got fun. Paypal STOLE the 1700 from my discover card. THEY ARE THIEFS!! I never said they could charge my card, but did anyhow. Next, paypal then told me the buyer filed a cimplaint, and the funds would be released once the buy dropped the complaint. I call the buyer, he insists he never filed a complaint. We formulate an email to paypal and send it with both of us on the email.. Paypal tells both of us the funds are still fradulant.

So I end up forgetting about paypal and filed a charge back to myself through Discover card on July 11th. It still isnt 'final' but Discover tells me there is no reason why I wont win.

Its the craziest thing I have ever heard of with paypal, and rather unfortunate. I have done quite a bit of business with them. I have talked to them on the phone and am given a different response EVERY time I call them.

Be glad you only might lose $209...

Moral: SAY NO TO PAYPAL!!!!



UPDATE: Well, discover card finally stuck it to them. Discover called me and said that paypal sent them a packet of information that was not even close to showing the charges were legit. Therefor, discover has taken the money back from them. Discover did tell me they have like 30 more days to prove the charges were correct, but they said companies never send more than one packet of information.

What I get a kick out of is when I log into paypal, it tells me my account is limited and that I need to verify all this stuff right away. The main thing to verify is that the charge made to discover card was legit.

Yeah right paypal, get a life! And I am glad I was able to screw you back out of the money.

peacherwu said:I just want to bring attention to the other side of the story: buying with Paypal.

For one thing, this thread has not covered much about Paypal complaint process; for another, there seems to be some misunderstanding in this board (or I could be wrong) about the process.

Paypal has Buyer Complaint Process (BCP) as a built-in protection program for Paypal payments. BCP USED to cover INR claims but not SNAD claims. However, since January 2005, Paypal has extended BCP to cover SNAD on eBay items as well.

For eBay items, Paypal offers sellers a program called Buyer Protection (BPP), which covers both INR and SNAD cases. The enrollment is AUTOMATIC as soon as a seller meets certain criteria, and you have to call to opt out.

IT's not so much that the buyer has a choice either to file with BCP or BPP for eBay items. There is only one complaint process and the claim will be taken over to BPP automatically if the item has BPP, otherwise it'll be a BCP claim.

Since the careless buyers won't notice if an eBay item has BPP or not, it used to be advantageous to opt out BPP, so that buyer can file INR claims only. But Paypal has defeated the strategy by January's extension.

To sum up, for eBay sellers it makes no difference if you are in or out of BPP; for non-eBay sellers it makes no difference either.

And quite contrary to common understanding, selling off eBay has slightly MORE protection for seller since buyer cannot file SNAD with Paypal. However, seller still lose the money if buyer file SNAD via cc chargeback. See subsection 2.b.ii of SPP policy.

Paypal Buyer Complaint Process
Paypal Buyer Protection
Paypal Seller Protection Policy

This might deserve its own thread but I don't feel knowledgeable enough to maintain. tlaxon you are welcome to do so if you wish.

Is this correct (buyer cannot file SNAD with Paypal).

the subsection 2.b.ii of SPP policy only says (Claims for “not as described”:- Reversals arising from Buyer Claims for eBay items, or credit card chargebacks for any item, claiming that goods are "not as described."), this indicates that the buyer can do a SNAD via credit card charge back but it's not telling that a buyer can not do a SNAD directly with Paypal.

As a eBay seller you can cover yourself from everything (provided you are following Paypal SPP guidelines) except SNAD, and I am trying to understand paypal's SNAD policy, Thanks for any information.

Great thread OP! But I have a question...

Sold a $150 printer on eBay. Buyer is local and wants to pickup. Buyer also informed me the item is for resale. Told the buyer I would accept cash only for local pickups and wanted resale certificate and copy of business license (to be tax exempt). No problem with the latter, but buyer wants to pay through PayPal for receipt purposes. Makes sense, so I am wondering if having him pay as a service will protect me? TIA

That sounds like its for tangible goods though. If the buyer marks it as a service, then I'm thinking he wouldnt be protected by the policies...

Thats really my question - would marking as a service protect me from a PayPal chargeback? He wants a receipt, which PayPal would provide, but I dont want to have a chargeback and be SOL because I let him pick it up and there is no tracking number I can provide.

Buyer Complaint Policy says

1. General. PayPal’s Buyer Complaint Policy provides a method for buyers to issue formal complaints regarding goods paid for through PayPal but never received, and regarding goods purchased on e8ay and paid for through PayPal that the buyer receives but that are significantly not as described by the seller...


If you read it carefully and cf SPP the meantime, Paypal is just trying to say BCP covers eBay INR and SNAD claims, and off-e8ay INR claims but not SNAD claims.

It makes sense because e8ay (which paypal is a part) is better defined in many ways than its rivals so that SNAD claim can be easily arbitrated than other venues, comparatively speaking. For instance, an SNAD claim will fail automatically if the item description has "item sold as is..."


SUNNY said:peacherwu said:I just want to bring attention to the other side of the story: buying with Paypal.

For one thing, this thread has not covered much about Paypal complaint process; for another, there seems to be some misunderstanding in this board (or I could be wrong) about the process.

Paypal has Buyer Complaint Process (BCP) as a built-in protection program for Paypal payments. BCP USED to cover INR claims but not SNAD claims. However, since January 2005, Paypal has extended BCP to cover SNAD on eBay items as well.

For eBay items, Paypal offers sellers a program called Buyer Protection (BPP), which covers both INR and SNAD cases. The enrollment is AUTOMATIC as soon as a seller meets certain criteria, and you have to call to opt out.

IT's not so much that the buyer has a choice either to file with BCP or BPP for eBay items. There is only one complaint process and the claim will be taken over to BPP automatically if the item has BPP, otherwise it'll be a BCP claim.

Since the careless buyers won't notice if an eBay item has BPP or not, it used to be advantageous to opt out BPP, so that buyer can file INR claims only. But Paypal has defeated the strategy by January's extension.

To sum up, for eBay sellers it makes no difference if you are in or out of BPP; for non-eBay sellers it makes no difference either.

And quite contrary to common understanding, selling off eBay has slightly MORE protection for seller since buyer cannot file SNAD with Paypal. However, seller still lose the money if buyer file SNAD via cc chargeback. See subsection 2.b.ii of SPP policy.

Paypal Buyer Complaint Process
Paypal Buyer Protection
Paypal Seller Protection Policy

This might deserve its own thread but I don't feel knowledgeable enough to maintain. tlaxon you are welcome to do so if you wish.

Is this correct (buyer cannot file SNAD with Paypal).

the subsection 2.b.ii of SPP policy only says (Claims for “not as described”:- Reversals arising from Buyer Claims for eBay items, or credit card chargebacks for any item, claiming that goods are "not as described."), this indicates that the buyer can do a SNAD via credit card charge back but it's not telling that a buyer can not do a SNAD directly with Paypal.

As a eBay seller you can cover yourself from everything (provided you are following Paypal SPP guidelines) except SNAD, and I am trying to understand paypal's SNAD policy, Thanks for any information.

johnny1290 said:Actually now that I read that again, what does this mean:

DC is confirmation of delivery only. It is not tracking.

In the line before it said to GET DC if shipping by USPS. Does DC count for paypal protection or not? I've been getting DC and I just looked it up online and was able to confirm that the package was delivered using the confirmation number on my receipt.
Yes, DC does count for PayPal. PayPal wants *proof of delivery*. They don't care if your item is delivered by a yak, as long as the item can be shown to be delivered online.

Again, DC is confirmation of delivery. You buy it, you get a DC number, you go online, and check whether delivery has been made. Sometimes you get quasi-tracking info, in that your package may be scanned along the way, but this is not required and should never be counted on to happen.