I purchased a new camera on eBay yesterday. Today I had an email from the seller wanting me to call and confirm my purchase. I did and they tried to up sell me on some things that I denied. Then they said it would take 2-3 days to process my order before it shipped.
Is this a normal practice for bigger sellers on eBay?
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posted: Jun. 18, 2009 @ 11:01p
B0HEMIAN
Ancient Member
posted: Jun. 19, 2009 @ 1:01a
does the seller id resemble any of the NYC camera mail order houses? it is their common practice but it looks better on eBay - if you order on their website and call to "confirm", and refuse to buy the overprice accessories they would tell you it takes 3 - 6 months to ship out the camera.
I believe it is allowed. The part saying you MUST call to confirm is BS though. They can get your contact info and call you to confirm if it's a big deal to them.
Allowed to confirm, yes. Allowed to upsell, no. That's fee avoidance. Since eBay has no knowledge of it, however, not much that can or will be done. You always have the option to leave appropriate feedback.
burningrave101
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Jun. 19, 2009 @ 9:47a
Should of recording the conversation when you called and then forward it to eBay trust and safety to see if they would do something about it.
dcg9381
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Jun. 19, 2009 @ 11:14a
Just report it to eBay. They will do nothing, but if enough people report it - they'll eventually NARU.
I agree, it sounds like the camera / electronics vendors from NY - they sell gray market, or sell an item w/o a battery and charge you 500% more than retail on the battery.
Who is the seller? (ID)
anxman69
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Jun. 19, 2009 @ 3:38p
I had this problem with an eBay vendor that claimed to be in Florida but was actually in Brooklyn. They eventually got kicked off of eBay anyway.
Realistically, you're never getting your camera from these guys. They'll just keep dragging out the order and eventually cancel it. I would file for Not Received right away to force them to provide a tracking number.
They tried to up sell me but they didn't try and rip me off that badly. There auction claimed it was a US model and it came with a bunch of other accessories. It also claimed it was brand new and sealed. When I called they said the extra battery they were offering was better then the one that it came with. They also only wanted $50 for the battery. Which is expensive for a battery but no more more of a rip off then best buy.
Plus they have 14000 feedback with 99% positive.
89.9% once I leave my feedback
Ill be mad if they don't ship it. I paid with paypal so im not worried about losing the money. But I used my 10% eBay coupon on it.
Thanks, I found the link. The package is supposed to be arriving on Monday. But I am pretty sure its going to end up being a gray market camera.
couponjohn
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 27, 2009 @ 10:35a
Skulles said: dcg9381 said: Go to help -> contact eBay.
Thanks, I found the link. The package is supposed to be arriving on Monday. But I am pretty sure its going to end up being a gray market camera.
You can always leave feedback on what you thought..
johnstexas
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 27, 2009 @ 12:12p
Skulles said: dcg9381 said: Go to help -> contact eBay.
Thanks, I found the link. The package is supposed to be arriving on Monday. But I am pretty sure its going to end up being a gray market camera.
Most of what FWers sell is gray market. Gray Market
A grey market or gray market is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer
A grey market or gray market is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer
That is true however on the auction listing it said in big letters Not Gray Market, comes with manufacturers warranty and we are an authorized dealer.
If it did not say that then I wouldn't hold it against them if they ship me a gray market item.
But if they lied on there listing then I want to do everything I can to get them in trouble.
couponjohn
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 27, 2009 @ 3:17p
Skulles said: johnstexas said:
A grey market or gray market is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels which, while legal, are unofficial, unauthorized, or unintended by the original manufacturer
That is true however on the auction listing it said in big letters Not Gray Market, comes with manufacturers warranty and we are an authorized dealer.
If it did not say that then I wouldn't hold it against them if they ship me a gray market item.
But if they lied on there listing then I want to do everything I can to get them in trouble.
When you get it call the manufactur to confirm its real
johnstexas said: Most of what FWers sell is gray market. Gray Market
Citation needed.
johnstexas
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 28, 2009 @ 7:11p
qube said: johnstexas said: Most of what FWers sell is gray market. Gray Market
Citation needed.
Perhaps I shouldn't have worded it that way. What I should have said is that many FWers buy things on sale, clearance or discounted after rebate from retailers and resell them on eBay and this is gray market because not part of the "authorized" distribution channels. Most people who post on FW about reselling retail products don't indicate they get them from an authorized distributor or the manufacturer, but more often that they are reselling Dells, reselling items without UPCs, or reselling other things bought from a retailer.
Most authorized dealers wouldn't bother going to FW as this is a site for posting deals intended for end users, not deals officially intended for resale.
johnstexas said: Perhaps I shouldn't have worded it that way. What I should have said is that many FWers buy things on sale, clearance or discounted after rebate from retailers and resell them on eBay and this is gray market because not part of the "authorized" distribution channels. Most people who post on FW about reselling retail products don't indicate they get them from an authorized distributor or the manufacturer, but more often that they are reselling Dells, reselling items without UPCs, or reselling other things bought from a retailer.
Once again, citation needed.
Stoned
Senior Member
posted: Jun. 29, 2009 @ 1:06p
Bait and switch: Online electronics stores caught in fraudText List of Names
johnstexas
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jun. 29, 2009 @ 1:38p
qube said: johnstexas said: Perhaps I shouldn't have worded it that way. What I should have said is that many FWers buy things on sale, clearance or discounted after rebate from retailers and resell them on eBay and this is gray market because not part of the "authorized" distribution channels. Most people who post on FW about reselling retail products don't indicate they get them from an authorized distributor or the manufacturer, but more often that they are reselling Dells, reselling items without UPCs, or reselling other things bought from a retailer.
Once again, citation needed.
I'm not sure whether you were wanting a citation that items sold outside of normal distribution channels is gray market (that is one of the definitions) or that many/most FWers engage in this. If the former, I cited Wikipedia in the first post that the challenged for a citation (You do see the link to the Grey Market Wikipedia article, don't you?). If the latter, I'm not going to go around making a list of names and references to people reselling retail items on FWHD or FWOA, but if you've been here long, you would know that many/most participants on the OA forums (and maybe HD forum) do this.
The camera came it had a warranty card. I called Canon and they said as long as I have the warranty card then it is covered by the warranty. I guess its not gray market.
Should I leave the seller negative feedback for making me call and trying to up sell me things?
Yes, negative feedback. They are crooks for trying to upsell you. I had a horrible experience last summer with one of these companies -- They WILL call you about the negative feedback though. Explain that they are not allowed to upsell over eBay and that you will be reporting it to eBay. They will get pissed off and offer you something to remove the feedback -- but they won't send it until you've removed the feedback. When you remove the feedback, they won't send whatever it was they offered to you.
lilslyk said: Yes, negative feedback. They are crooks for trying to upsell you. I had a horrible experience last summer with one of these companies -- They WILL call you about the negative feedback though. Explain that they are not allowed to upsell over eBay and that you will be reporting it to eBay. They will get pissed off and offer you something to remove the feedback -- but they won't send it until you've removed the feedback. When you remove the feedback, they won't send whatever it was they offered to you.
They are a bunch of crooks.
At least they sent me my stuff. Though the tripod that they sent me is a piece of trash.
All the reviews for this place say how horrible they are. But I cant find anything wrong with what I bought besides its slow shipping and that they tried to up sell me.
Skulles said: lilslyk said: Yes, negative feedback. They are crooks for trying to upsell you. I had a horrible experience last summer with one of these companies -- They WILL call you about the negative feedback though. Explain that they are not allowed to upsell over eBay and that you will be reporting it to eBay. They will get pissed off and offer you something to remove the feedback -- but they won't send it until you've removed the feedback. When you remove the feedback, they won't send whatever it was they offered to you.
They are a bunch of crooks.
At least they sent me my stuff. Though the tripod that they sent me is a piece of trash.
All the reviews for this place say how horrible they are. But I cant find anything wrong with what I bought besides its slow shipping and that they tried to up sell me.
I called canon twice about it. The first time they said it was probably covered by the manufacturers warranty. The second time they said it probably was not. I guess ill have to call a third time to see which one is probably true.
I always thought gray market referred to the channel the item is imported through, not the domestic distribution channel. I think that definition is also the one that eBayers are referring to.
Yo Ma-Ma said: Skulles, which eBay seller is this?
pyxis_camera
CreditGuy
Senior Member
posted: Jul. 8, 2009 @ 12:41p
They are crooks for trying to upsell you. Can anyone tell me what specific eBay rule is being violated here? I thought that once someone made a purchase from you, that person was your customer. You could then add him to your mailing list, send him special offers, mail him your catalog--in other words, do the marketing any good businessperson is likely to do.
I can understand that high pressure salesmen are annoying. But calling them crooks? Giving negative feedback? Seems uncalled for to me. After all, they apparently delivered the product as promised, and it was as described. But I'm ready to change my mind if someone can point me to the rule that's been violated.
CreditGuy said: I thought that once someone made a purchase from you, that person was your customer. You could then add him to your mailing list, send him special offers, mail him your catalog--in other words, do the marketing any good businessperson is likely to do. But that isn't what the seller did here. The seller tried to intimidate the buyer into adding on to their order, despite the fact that the deal was done as soon as the auction ended. The seller's acts are wrong because an un-savvy buyer might not be aware of there right to the product for the agreed upon price, and the right to refuse to barter.
"When a seller lists an item on eBay and a buyer bids on or buys it, the seller and buyer enter into a contract that both members are expected to honor. For sellers, this contract includes both formal requirements, as well as informal, "common-sense" obligations to provide good service to their buyers."
Honor the original terms by accepting payment for an item at the end of a successful sale.
Promptly ship the item with appropriate packaging once payment has been received.
CreditGuy said: They are crooks for trying to upsell you. Can anyone tell me what specific eBay rule is being violated here? I thought that once someone made a purchase from you, that person was your customer. You could then add him to your mailing list, send him special offers, mail him your catalog--in other words, do the marketing any good businessperson is likely to do.
I can understand that high pressure salesmen are annoying. But calling them crooks? Giving negative feedback? Seems uncalled for to me. After all, they apparently delivered the product as promised, and it was as described. But I'm ready to change my mind if someone can point me to the rule that's been violated.
They also shipped me a gray market camera. So that earned them a neg
CreditGuy
Senior Member
posted: Jul. 9, 2009 @ 10:05a
Skulles, on Jun 29 you said the camera was as advertised, came with a warranty card and was NOT gray market. On Jul 8 you said it was gray market. What made you change your mind about that?
Again, I don't see anything wrong with offering add-ons to a customer of yours if you're in business. It wasn't bait and switch. It wasn't an attempt to sell a higher-priced or different camera instead of the one bought. It was an attempt to sell an additional battery, which many camera owners find useful. I also don't see any intimidation--there was no threat to NOT ship the ordered merchandise if the battery wasn't added.
* Make an additional purchase * Pay an amount beyond the final price and a reasonable shipping fee * Sign up for a service with the purchase * Take any unrelated action (such as pay for a hotel room) as a condition for receiving the item or its benefit (such as free or discounted airfare)
I'd be annoyed too, if I had to listen to an unwanted sales pitch. If it was just an email and I could hit delete, I'd be much less annoyed, as long as I could still check out, receive the correct item, and receive it in a reasonable time. And if they said not gray market and it is, yes, that would warrant a neg, as they lied about the item condition in order to get a better price.
From what I read, no additional purchase was required. But, they did an upsale which is trying to sell additional items. Most camera places do this - it's a hard habit to break even when they are selling of weBay. They hate educated consumer that know the product and the add-ons and accessories.
About two years ago bought a video camera that uses mini-DVD. I had priced out the consumables before going to the camera store that I was the best price. They tried to sell me packages of mini-DVD and turned them down telling them I could get it for less somewhere else. They asked how much. I told him but 2 dollars less than I could get anywhere else. They asked if I would buy it at that price from them. I said yes and they sold me 2 packs of ten mini-DVDs. It was same brand I would have picked. It was almost 1/2 the price of their "regular" price. He tried to tell me about battery upgrade, but simply brushed hime off with "I will see how the standard battery lasts and my usage before making a decision to upgrade." The mini-DVD purchase saved me a trip to the other store (which may not have had them or changed their price.) So, that upsale was worth it. The salesperson could have balked or asked for an ad to prove the price, but didn't as I didn't overly lowball the "real" other price.
On weBay, I wouldn't give a negative, but would not give maximum stars under seller communication feedback.
CreditGuy said: Skulles, on Jun 29 you said the camera was as advertised, came with a warranty card and was NOT gray market. On Jul 8 you said it was gray market. What made you change your mind about that?
Again, I don't see anything wrong with offering add-ons to a customer of yours if you're in business. It wasn't bait and switch. It wasn't an attempt to sell a higher-priced or different camera instead of the one bought. It was an attempt to sell an additional battery, which many camera owners find useful. I also don't see any intimidation--there was no threat to NOT ship the ordered merchandise if the battery wasn't added.
I apologize I forgot some details. The camera came with a warranty card. I called canon to confirm it. They told me it probably had a warranty but couldn't tell me any more information at that time because the office to check was closed. I called again the following morning and they told me it was a gray market camera and did not have a warranty since the seller was not actually an authorized dealer. Which means the seller lied about being an authorized dealer of canon products.
CreditGuy
Senior Member
posted: Jul. 11, 2009 @ 4:19p
Skulles--thanks for the clarification. That changes everything! And johnstexas, many thanks as well--I knew that REQUIRING to make an additional purchase wasn't allowed, but did NOT realize the simply OFFERING was a violation as well.
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