I live in an apt building and the mail carrier probably left this outside and someone took it.
Should I dispute this with paypal or will I lose due to delivery confirmation. Does paypal require 1 a signature or 2 just delivery confirmation without signature, as proof of delivery?
Should I forget paypal and just dispute with a credit card.
FatWalrusMember said: My question is, is there any point in disputing with paypal. Will Paypal say, since there is a delivery confirmation, no refund is due.
No point. Paypal will side with seller since the item WAS DELIVERED TO YOU. You were later robbed. If you want to rob the seller via a credit card chargeback that is up to you and karma.
FatWalrusMember
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 24, 2009 @ 10:18a
I just realized the transaction is not on the paypal log. I used billmelater through paypal. How does this change the situation. I probably then could not initiate a dispute with paypal even if I wanted to.
FatWalrusMember
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 24, 2009 @ 10:20a
I have not received the item. I don't know whether it was even delivered to the apartment mailbox. The only thing is there is a delivery confirmation document. I don't think that means that it was delivered to me. It could have been stolen anywhere along the line...
FatWalrusMember said: It could have been stolen anywhere along the line...Yes, but it wasn't. The delivery confirmation proves that it was delivered to the final destination - your mailbox. What happened after that is your business, not the seller's.
FatWalrusMember
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 24, 2009 @ 11:09a
Not really. The seller is fully responsible for actual receipt of the item. The only thing that shows receipt is an actual signature of the recipient.
FatWalrusMember said: Not really. The seller is fully responsible for actual receipt of the item. The only thing that shows receipt is an actual signature of the recipient.
You should have taken some steps to help prevent this situation. The seller did not know the item would be sitting out, for anyone to take. But you prob. had some idea that this was possible (small mailbox at apt.) Next time request and Pay for a Sig. so USPS will not leave the item.
FatWalrusMember said: Not really. The seller is fully responsible for actual receipt of the item. The only thing that shows receipt is an actual signature of the recipient.
Signature is only required for >$250. For anything less then DC proves receipt per Paypal rules.
I agree with rhino. If you live in a risky area then you should have asked and paid for signature service. I don't see that the seller did anything wrong. "Grow a set" and deal with the loss.
BrianGa said: FatWalrusMember said: It could have been stolen anywhere along the line...Yes, but it wasn't. The delivery confirmation proves that it was delivered to the final destination - your mailbox. What happened after that is your business, not the seller's. No it doesn't. USPS DC is unreliable and the USPS has been known to scan items as delivered before they leave the post office. (has happened to me.) The USPS has also been known to delete scans of items (because the scans showed the item going to the wrong address, I have seen them do this). It is unknown where the item has been lost.
FatWalrusMember
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 24, 2009 @ 4:37p
has anyone charged back with billmelater.com; are they any different than credit cards
FatWalrusMember
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 24, 2009 @ 4:40p
this sounds more like the reality
BradMajors said: BrianGa said: FatWalrusMember said: It could have been stolen anywhere along the line...Yes, but it wasn't. The delivery confirmation proves that it was delivered to the final destination - your mailbox. What happened after that is your business, not the seller's. No it doesn't. USPS DC is unreliable and the USPS has been known to scan items as delivered before they leave the post office. (has happened to me.) The USPS has also been known to delete scans of items (because the scans showed the item going to the wrong address, I have seen them do this). It is unknown where the item has been lost.
FatWalrusMember
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 24, 2009 @ 4:41p
It's actually not a small mailbox and the item is small enough that it could have probably fit.
I've disputed with Paypal and had zero luck. They are very difficult to work with and they stack the cards in the sellers favor-- so they don't have to flip the bill.
Called the credit card company and the problem was fixed right away. They investigated, pulled the money back. Paypal didn't debit my account into the negative either. (Maybe, per CC agreements they can't?)
op: i've been in similar situations and feel for u. Last month had an item i bought never delivered. seller sent me usps tracking but that only showed that he printed a label to ship and nothing more. disputed with paypal and got my money back. took a full month for $5.
crazypalooza said: op: i've been in similar situations and feel for u. Last month had an item i bought never delivered. seller sent me usps tracking but that only showed that he printed a label to ship and nothing more. disputed with paypal and got my money back. took a full month for $5.
That's a completely different case.
As a seller if I ship something, then the buyer tells me they didn't get it AND the tracking or DC shows that it just disappeared into the ether I refund my buyer, no questions asked. If I check the tracking or DC and it shows DELIVERED I do not refund. It is not my problem if someone robbed you after the package was delivered. I've had this happen several times and for some reason the address is always something like: 123C MLK Blvd Apt 4 Rear, Basement Apt 7-F, Shitsville ZZ 12345. You live somewhere crappy and got robbed - my fault how?
Stoned
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 25, 2009 @ 10:43a
Buyer is responsible for the security of his mail and packages once dropped off by the postal service. Talk to your mail carrier, post office, superintendant, police, insurance company, etc. But don't blame the seller.
It's not a big deal... just file cc chargeback. Seller will show DC to paypal and paypal will eat the loss under seller protection policy. It's not like filing a chargeback is robbing the seller unless it's a non-spp eligible transaction.
You really shouldn't be blaming the seller for not doing more. As a seller, I ship it to your address specified and follow the guidelines regarding DC vs SC. In the future, you may want to read up and eBay/PayPal policies and ship to an address where you know it will be safe (or safer). Also, USPS is not the most reliable on certain items so using other methods (when available) may be a better way to go.
I once ordered $250 worth of ($1) coins in a heavy box which the mint shipped via USPS. Rather than try to deliver to my door, they left the box sitting on top of the public mailboxes - easy pickings for anyone willing to grab it.
Yosquire said: I've disputed with Paypal and had zero luck. They are very difficult to work with and they stack the cards in the sellers favor-- so they don't have to flip the bill.
Called the credit card company and the problem was fixed right away. They investigated, pulled the money back. Paypal didn't debit my account into the negative either. (Maybe, per CC agreements they can't?)
They probably absorbed the chargeback. Most CC companies will just eat the loss themselves over minuscule amounts because it's not worth their time to pursue.
If OP used Bill Me Later, I don't think he could do a cc chargeback. Can you pay Bill Me Later with a credit card? I thought you have to pay with a check or bank account fund? Even if he could pay with a credit card, wouldn't it seems strange that 90 days after the item was shipped, you pay and then immediately do a charge back saying that you never get the item?
OP could choose not to pay Bill Me Later, but then his credit would be affected, because Bill Me Later is like a credit line.
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