HTN first posted the information in the Delta adds $5 to fee for bags checked at airport thread, but with all of the people who take every opportunity to promote SW "no fee" policies, I thought it warranted its own thread - will be amusing to see how they try to justify this one.
I'll start: how hypocritical for an airline who trashes competitors for adding fees to start with something like this. you can't reserve a seat in advance, but for $10 you buy the right to be one of the first to fight for one - sounds like a bad reality show to me.
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DSJ said:shank said:- will be amusing to see how they try to justify this one.
Nothing amusing about a company that needs to slow the cash bleed-out.
So when SW lucked out on fuel hedges in 2007-08, unsuccessfully attempted to use the windfall to steal market share and fund aggressive "no hidden fees" advertising campaigns, it was all in good fun; now that the playing field has been leveled, it is no longer amusing? Ok, how about ironic?
There are also hints from SW adding checked baggage fees in 2010...
The bottom line is that there is still too many seats, driving prices down to where domestic air travel is no longer profitable. Take advantage of the cheap fares while you can - it has to change.
The bottom line is that there is still too many seats, driving prices down to where domestic air travel is no longer profitable. Take advantage of the cheap fares while you can - it has to change.
SWA placed a bet that fuel prices would spike and they won. AFAIK the CBOE and the like offer no way to bet that market demand is shrinking for SWA's product.
scrouds said:What would be really great is if I can show to the airport, and put down the $10 to upgrade my position, since i forgot the night before to check in.
That would be great.
The only way to do that is "upgrade" to business select - likely more than a $10 adder, but puts you in front of the line - ahead of the "Earlybirds"
The bottom line is that there is still too many seats, driving prices down to where domestic air travel is no longer profitable. Take advantage of the cheap fares while you can - it has to change.
SWA placed a bet that fuel prices would spike and they won. AFAIK the CBOE and the like offer no way to bet that market demand is shrinking for SWA's product.
It is called supply and demand - airlines will continue to cut back on flights, shrink aircraft and possibly more industry consolidation until they remove the excess capacity and are able to increase fares.
For example, American continues to cut back on flights through St Louis, which was TWA's hub, and expect to see Delta do the same for Northwest service through Minneapolis. Southwest has added new business destinations, such as BOS and LGA, without adding aircraft --> cutting back service elsewhere.
Genius069 said:don't see the difference between this and purchasing a first class ticket
You are kidding, right?
1. First class seats are MUCH wider, with MUCH more leg room - no fat or smelly person sitting on top of you 2. Most airlines serve you a warm meal and drinks with real plates and glassware 3. You have an ASSIGNED seat in first class, and can generally request a window or aisle
shank said:Genius069 said:don't see the difference between this and purchasing a first class ticket
You are kidding, right?
1. First class seats are MUCH wider, with MUCH more leg room - no fat or smelly person sitting on top of you 2. Most airlines serve you a warm meal and drinks with real plates and glassware 3. You have an ASSIGNED seat in first class, and can generally request a window or aisle
I was not speaking of the extra "perks" of flying first class but about the concept. Passengers purchase first class tickets on other airlines all the time to be able to board early, larger seats, food, alcohol drinks, free checked bags and so on. Since Southwest doesn't offer larger seats, meals, free alcohol drinks and some of the other "perks" that other airlines do , the price is significantly lower and once you are on board you can pick whatever seat you want including exit row or first row which has MUCH more leg room.
Its funny, no one seemed to complain about the "business" fares they had/have which were also at times significantly higher($100-$200) more then the wanna get away fares. It gave you priority boarding, extra reward credit and a free alcoholic drink, not sure all that is worth the extra $100-$200. This sounds like a better deal.
Genius069 said:shank said:Genius069 said:don't see the difference between this and purchasing a first class ticket
You are kidding, right?
1. First class seats are MUCH wider, with MUCH more leg room - no fat or smelly person sitting on top of you 2. Most airlines serve you a warm meal and drinks with real plates and glassware 3. You have an ASSIGNED seat in first class, and can generally request a window or aisle
I was not speaking of the extra "perks" of flying first class but about the concept. Passengers purchase first class tickets on other airlines all the time to be able to board early, larger seats, food, alcohol drinks, free checked bags and so on. Since Southwest doesn't offer larger seats, meals, free alcohol drinks and some of the other "perks" that other airlines do , the price is significantly lower and once you are on board you can pick whatever seat you want including exit row or first row which has MUCH more leg room.
Its funny, no one seemed to complain about the "business" fares they had/have which were also at times significantly higher($100-$200) more then the wanna get away fares. It gave you priority boarding, extra reward credit and a free alcoholic drink, not sure all that is worth the extra $100-$200. This sounds like a better deal.
You must not travel very much, or read the FlyerTalk link provided by isles1 above.
Those paying $10 for what SW is calling "Earlybirds" board AFTER BusinessSelect and A-list, who typically take the 5 exit row seats of an originating flight, or what few decent seats are left when boarding a continuation flight, after those already onboard have finished fighting.
On full service airlines, you can RESERVE more desirable seats; some added similar fees for CONFIRMING a more desirable seat in advance, which seems like a MUCH better deal to me.
According to the FlyerTalk thread, the flight attendants are merely spectators to the boarding process, and will not discourage a large family or group have one person pay the $10 EarlyBird fee, and reserve a row or more - WHAT A MESS. There are also concerns voiced that it may no longer be possible to get an A boarding group without paying the extra $10.
To some extend, I believe this reflects a sign of failure in SW's attempt to increase revenues from business customers. From my personal observations, Business Select bennies have obviously not been sufficient to attract more than a handful of customers, so this is the first of what I expect to be other FEES to extort money from business travelers. Despite my loathing of SW's boarding process, I am forced to use it more often than I would choose, being the only option for some of my business travels.
So do you work for SW, own stock, or related to someone that does?
Message edited by: shank on 2009-09-04 09:19:55 CDT
Breaking news! 2 kids were killed and 10 people were trampled when passengers started racing to get their seats after paying $10. The passengers were under the impression that they could grab the pilot's seat too!
Message edited by: bharatiya on 2009-09-04 10:16:53 CDT
shank said:Genius069 said:shank said:Genius069 said:don't see the difference between this and purchasing a first class ticket
You are kidding, right?
1. First class seats are MUCH wider, with MUCH more leg room - no fat or smelly person sitting on top of you 2. Most airlines serve you a warm meal and drinks with real plates and glassware 3. You have an ASSIGNED seat in first class, and can generally request a window or aisle
I was not speaking of the extra "perks" of flying first class but about the concept. Passengers purchase first class tickets on other airlines all the time to be able to board early, larger seats, food, alcohol drinks, free checked bags and so on. Since Southwest doesn't offer larger seats, meals, free alcohol drinks and some of the other "perks" that other airlines do , the price is significantly lower and once you are on board you can pick whatever seat you want including exit row or first row which has MUCH more leg room.
Its funny, no one seemed to complain about the "business" fares they had/have which were also at times significantly higher($100-$200) more then the wanna get away fares. It gave you priority boarding, extra reward credit and a free alcoholic drink, not sure all that is worth the extra $100-$200. This sounds like a better deal.
You must not travel very much, or read the FlyerTalk link provided by isles1 above.
Those paying $10 for what SW is calling "Earlybirds" board AFTER BusinessSelect and A-list, who typically take the 5 exit row seats of an originating flight, or what few decent seats are left when boarding a continuation flight, after those already onboard have finished fighting.
On full service airlines, you can RESERVE more desirable seats; some added similar fees for CONFIRMING a more desirable seat in advance, which seems like a MUCH better deal to me.
According to the FlyerTalk thread, the flight attendants are merely spectators to the boarding process, and will not discourage a large family or group have one person pay the $10 EarlyBird fee, and reserve a row or more - WHAT A MESS. There are also concerns voiced that it may no longer be possible to get an A boarding group without paying the extra $10.
To some extend, I believe this reflects a sign of failure in SW's attempt to increase revenues from business customers. From my personal observations, Business Select bennies have obviously not been sufficient to attract more than a handful of customers, so this is the first of what I expect to be other FEES to extort money from business travelers. Despite my loathing of SW's boarding process, I am forced to use it more often than I would choose, being the only option for some of my business travels.
So do you work for SW, own stock, or related to someone that does?
No I do not frequent flyertalk and no I do not work for SW, own stock or know anyone who works for them. However I do fly very often 2/3 weeks a month but not usually with Southwest. I loathe their boarding process as well but their customer service, baggage handling and ticket change policy are far better then any other us airlines out there.
I just don't see what the big deal is about someone wanting to pay the extra $$ to board early. I agree that flight attendants need to be more pro-active with the whole seat saving and boarding process. I have encountered this several times when a person is trying to save a seat in an exit row or the first row. Most of the time I ask the person saving the seat if the person has boarded yet(maybe they went to the bathroom), if they haven't I put my things away and sit down. I have gotten dirty looks but don't really care since I don't know the person and will probably never see them again. If they really want to press the matter they can take it up w/ the flight attendant. Policy is first come first serve, not first come save seats for others. I have moved after the fact when I realize the person the seat was meant for was an elderly person or a significant other with a kid. But don't budge if it is just the significant other, friend, co-worker, or hot-guy/girl they met in the terminal. If you pay $10 to board early then you can sit where you want. If the family wanted to sit together they should have all shelled out $10, as a convenience fee.
I just don't see what the big deal is about someone wanting to pay the extra $$ to board early. That is how I feel about this too. This is not a compulsory fee. You may still check-in online at or after the 24-hour mark, or at the airport. Pax can balance the $10 versus the value of boarding earlier in the process. I value the option to check-in well in advance and come back at my leisure after the 24-mark and print my boarding pass, all while securing a position earlier in the boarding process. Many people used to pay ~$5 p/p to third-party services to check them in at or near the 24-hour mark. SW has simply brought that service in-house.
Does the proprietary "line-cutting" service cannibalize their business select model? Probably, at least to a certain extent. However, I am not sure there are many people willing to pay 50-150% more on average just to board earlier (although there are a few other perks...none that I'd pay for, however), and I do not think Early Bird check-in and business select are targeted at the same market of pax.
IMO, this optional check-in process is easily distinguished from fees for first and second checked bags. Is this this $10 option the start of a slippery slope towards more fees from SW? Only time will tell.
Why would you want to board early to sit in a cramped uncomfortable seat longer?? I always board the plane at the last minute to be in a plane short as possible.
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