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Woman on disability leases a BMW M6...and claims it is dealer's fault that she can't pay Archived From: Finance

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Auto payment defaults doubled last year and are expected to get worse. It is another financial meltdown waiting to happen similar to the crisis in the home mortgage industry, according to one consumer group. A CBS 5 ConsumerWatch investigation has found consumers locked into cars they cannot afford.

According to Power Information Network, 1.85 of the 9.6 million customers in 2006 who leased or financed a new car were subprime borrowers or consumers with weak credit.

Vivian Snyder has strong credit and is not classified as subprime, but she is one of many consumers who can't afford the car she leased. Snyder drives a brand new convertible BMW with a MSRP listed at approximately $100,000.

Most consumers can't afford it, and neither can Vivian. That's because the monthly lease payment is $1,300. It eats up half her income which is a $2,500 disability check.

Yet, she got it at BMW of Fremont without showing a drivers license, pay stub, or any proof of income.

How did this happen? Apparently, her income was inflated by nearly 150%.

According to consumer advocate Rosemary Shahan with Consumers for Auto Reliability and Safety the practice is common.

"This is an epidemic of loan applications being falsified. In fact, the model for the meltdown we're seeing in real estate and home mortgage lending was auto lending."

Vivian's story starts like so many others. She went to the dealership which is owned by Autonation, the largest automobile retailer in the country just to look.

She got caught up in the excitement and said she told the salesperson about her $2,500-a month income. But, what ended up on the credit application was the amount she could be making if she was not on disability.

"He (the salesperson) put what he thought I needed to get qualified for the car," according to Vivian.

She admits she signed the lease credit application with her income inflated.

But CBS5 reviewed the lease application handed to Vivian as she left and compared it to a page from the same multi-layer document she retrieved days later.

Vivian's income had been changed once again - from $6,000 to $8,600 without her knowing.

General Manager Larry Long said a salesperson insists he changed the figure while Vivian was present.

"I witnessed that sale. I saw her and congratulated her. She was so thankful. She was so passionate about wanting that car and would have done anything to get that car," Long said.

Larry directs the blame on the finance company - BMW Financial Services.

"It's up to them to look at the credit application and they will see it at face value what the customer puts on paper as to be the truth," Long said.

Martha McKinley, a spokesperson with BMW Financial Services, said, "We have investigated this matter internally, and we are satisfied that BMW Financial Services acted appropriately at all times during the application and credit review process."

Vivian has only a few options. She can plead with the finance company to release her from the lease or have the car repossessed, losing her good credit and a $30,000 down payment which consisted of her entire retirement savings.

"I'm greatly embarrassed," Vivian said. "I should have looked over the contract better."

(© MMVIII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

.I have been selling cars for 15 years, and I know that sales rep and the finance dept doctored up her credit app to have the deal on that M5 approved. They wanted the profit and they needed a deal and they put words in BMW financial services mouth. The lady on disability was not responsible because it would not have been approved if her credit app would have been right just showing her actual disability income. That sales rep and the finance dept did it. Larry Long is just taking the heat for some dishonest employees. Heard of him even though I never met him. Been selling BMW for almost 2 years and I always new to be very accurate and specific so my customers will fill out the credit app completely. That finance rep and sales person should be fined and the customer forgiven!!! And Larry Long not Blamed even though I never met him.

Message edited by: fancifulfriend on 2008-02-11 12:32:07 CST

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Totally calling them right now and seeing if they can do the same for me.
This deal is HOT!!!

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So she has $30K in income and was attempting to lease a car worth more than 3 times her income?

Personal responsibility for the win. Even if her income wasn't inflated on the contract and she was somehow approved, where did she expect the monthly payment to come from?

She admits she signed the contract. The income to get her approved *might* have changed without her knowledge but the payment did not. This wasn't like an exploding adjustable rate, she knew exactly what payment she was getting into.

So it is now the requirement of the banks to tell people what they can't afford? I have credit lines worth 3x my gross salary. It would be my fault if I maxed them out and couldn't pay them back.

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I don't see mass defaults like in the r.e. market. It's not like cars or diamonds or dental work (lots of financing there now too) is going to suddenly depreciate. Lenders may be greedy, irresponsible and delusional when it comes to home prices always going up but at least they can't assume the same about most other things. Defaults will inevitably increase on other debt, including credit card debt, but that in itself is unlikely to create a crisis. On the other hand, if we do enter into a recession, and defaults on credit increase while lenders are still amassing mortgage losses, it could exacerbate things. It's all a house of card, you know - currencies, secondary securities markets, unsecured debt - all a house of cards. Luckily it's a house of cards that only requires a modicum of confidence to continue to hum.

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I'm just wondering how she pays for gas. With E60 M5 you'd be seeing 10 MPG on a good day...

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Her "disability" didn't happen to be of the "mental" kind, did it?

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verruckterBaum said:Her "disability" didn't happen to be of the "mental" kind, did it?

Surely. Just like the majority of the RE crash-affected, I have no sympathy. What the hell is wrong with people, where is the common sense?

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on a side note, your story reminds me of this one from my local news station. http://www.wlbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=7845317

people getting bad loans, take no responsibility, and the news article says its her house and not the bank's house!

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Squeezer99 said:on a side note, your story reminds me of this one from my local news station. http://www.wlbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=7845317

people getting bad loans, take no responsibility, and the news article says its her house and not the bank's house!

<Insert eleventy-billionth "What the frick did they think was going to happen when they signed the ADJUSTABLE RATE mortgage loan" comment here>

/Idiots
//they outnumber us

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Squeezer99 said:on a side note, your story reminds me of this one from my local news station. http://www.wlbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=7845317

people getting bad loans, take no responsibility, and the news article says its her house and not the bank's house!

Woman "All I ask is for them to let my house note stay at $675 but they raised it to $900."

She shoulda said "please"

oh btw, THESE IDIOTS CAN DOWNSIZE AND MOVE TO A SMALLER "AFFORDABLE" HOUSE.

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MaddHatter said:verruckterBaum said:Her "disability" didn't happen to be of the "mental" kind, did it?

Surely. Just like the majority of the RE crash-affected, I have no sympathy. What the hell is wrong with people, where is the common sense?

We are in the early stages of a generational change in consumer credit. As the game changes, there will be incentives to either have a very high or a very low credit score.

If you decide to go the low-score route, then repeated defaults are not just rational but optimal.

The pre-boomers (depression babies) saw defaults as something to be avoided at all cost. Some of that continued with the boomers, but is starting to change.

Millenials see online financial services as just another form of video game. Get fragged, then 'boop, boop, boop, BLEEEP' you respawn in 3-5 seconds ready to go out and get fragged again.

This will have big, big implications for financial services companies. Defaults often end with abandoned property and that's a huge problem if defaults become fashionable.

(And you don't have to call me Shirley... )

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While it's hard to argue with the blame placed on the idiot consumers, I think we all tend to overlook the actions of the car dealer (or the mortgage broker) who facilitates this nonsense.

That car dealer knew her entire income was from disability and yet 'made her happy'. And undoubtedly at full sticker price and a big profit. The people upstream from the mortgage brokers knew the debt they were repackaging was bogus, but they sold it by the billions all over the world. Joe Blow down the street couldn't have caused this meltdown by himself.

Blaming the idiot consumers for this whole mess is like blaming consumers for Enron. We've all just been had on a monumental scale - and it wasn't just by the stupid consumers around us. They've always been there. If we allow the blame to be placed on the little guys, we miss placing it where it belongs. Which is just what they're hoping for.

Idiot consumers are laughable. Idiot financiers who have learned to exploit them (and us) are truly scary.

<removes tinfoil hat now>

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The leasing company seemed to have covered themselves just fine, since they took 30% of the presumably list price as a down-payment. The only person hurting here is the woman.

No generational shifts required; just down-payments of 10 - 20% for assets bought with debt. In the past consumers had enough sense to save first; now the vendors will enforce it. Hopefully the same requirement for down-payment will permeate through into the secondary debt markets.

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I think someone might have taken a significant portion of those $30K she put upfront to make the deal go through.

And I hope local authorities look into her "disability"

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janwad said:

Blaming the idiot consumers for this whole mess is like blaming consumers for Enron.


That's a pretty horrible analogy. The manipulation of the wholesale electricity market and the corporate accounting illegal practice of shunting losses to offshore subsidiaries had very little to with individual consumerism and instant gratification.

If you want to make oversimplified analogies, this is like selling cigarettes to a lady who just had a lung removed because of cancer or selling a Big Mac to 500lb man who just had a quadruple bypass.

We're talking about an individual story here. I didn't see anyone blame the "whole mess" on consumers. I blame this lady for her situation. You have zero evidence that this lease was chopped and resold on the secondary debt market at a higher rating then it deserved.

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Regardless of what her income was, she knew what the payment was going to be and should have known if she could afford it or not.

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BTW, look for a lot of this nonsense to end up impacting the FCU world. Forget the hedge funds and leasing companies, the FCUs are the canaries in this coal mine.

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janwad said:While it's hard to argue with the blame placed on the idiot consumers, I think we all tend to overlook the actions of the car dealer (or the mortgage broker) who facilitates this nonsense.

That car dealer knew her entire income was from disability and yet 'made her happy'. And undoubtedly at full sticker price and a big profit. The people upstream from the mortgage brokers knew the debt they were repackaging was bogus, but they sold it by the billions all over the world. Joe Blow down the street couldn't have caused this meltdown by himself.

Blaming the idiot consumers for this whole mess is like blaming consumers for Enron. We've all just been had on a monumental scale - and it wasn't just by the stupid consumers around us. They've always been there. If we allow the blame to be placed on the little guys, we miss placing it where it belongs. Which is just what they're hoping for.

Idiot consumers are laughable. Idiot financiers who have learned to exploit them (and us) are truly scary.

<removes tinfoil hat now>

These are two totally and completely different problemes. If you sign a contract/loan agreement you are responsible for reading and understanding that agreement. Personally I don't care if a person decides to spend 50% of their income on a car it is their business. If they had changed the terms of the contract or the price in some way I would agree with you but from the sounds of it that is not the case.

The other side of the equation is BMW's problem if their loan officers and sales people are falsifing income to make loans BMW finicial is the one that is being defrauded along with whoever they sell their loans to assuming they sell them off. It is not like there are federal regulations on what kind of credit/income a person has to have in order to get a loan so if a bank was dumb enough to write a loan that would consume 100% of a person's income it would be legal although very stupid on the bank's part.

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The only victim here is the bank who wrote the lease, since they were given fraudulent application by the car salesperson. In fact, the lady signed that very same application so she obviously knew what numbers were on it.

I fail to see why someone who signed a contract that clearly said they will be responsible for $1300 every month for several years to come should be complaining about anything, except their own stupidity and lack of trivial budgeting abilities.

In fact, I would love if the outcome of this story was that DA got interested and charged both the lady and the dealer with fraud. it would take some balls to do that (because media will be all over the "poor disabled woman") but perhaps that would teach some lessons to these people who can't reap what they sow.

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