Is "Made in the USA" important?

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http://www.forbes.com/sites/lauraheller/2016/06/28/walmart-made-...

This is an article about WalMart and their relatively new "Made in the USA" program.

"WalMart has embraced the “Made in the USA” ethos and this week hosted its third annual Open Call for products made, assembled or grown in the U.S. It’s part of WalMart’s fourth annual Manufacturing Summit, which is WalMart’s initiative to invest in U.S. industry."

A while back I was i a conversation with a neighbor, and he went on a rant about how we need to buy things made here rather than supporting other markets. We had to stop our chat short so he could hope into his Subaru Outback and pick up the kids.

I'm curious as to how important "made in the USA" is to people here. I admit, it doesn't sway me much. And most of the people I know who champion the cause only do so as long as it's convenient.

So, here's the real question: if you can buy a product that is made in the USA, but it's more expensive, will you do it, or will you go for the cheaper item?

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VBMcGB said:   A while back I was i a conversation with a neighbor, and he went on a rant about how we need to buy things made here rather than supporting other markets. We had to stop our chat short so he could hope into his Subaru Outback and pick up the kids.FYI - Subaru Outbacks are Made in USA (Lafayette, IN).

It may be more accurate to say that Subaru Outbacks are assembled in the USA...what percentage of materials are used in the Outbacks that are American made, i don't know...Subaru is a Japanese company part of Fuji Heavy Industries (FHI).

Buying truly "made in the USA" products trickles down money to all facets of the materials supply chain, manufacturing processes, and American employees along the way, that also includes taxes to local, state, and the federal gov't...and keeps our money here, rather than it going to a foreign company gaining that profit and paying it's taxes to their gov't.

Don't get me wrong, i'm in favor of fair trade and fair competition in the market place. the product i buy will be of high quality and will fulfill my needs....AND if they happen to be AMERICAN MADE, that will be a consideration that will prompt me to pay more for it.

Yes, i do pay more for quality products made in America.

NoMoneyInMyWallet said:   
VBMcGB said:   A while back I was i a conversation with a neighbor, and he went on a rant about how we need to buy things made here rather than supporting other markets. We had to stop our chat short so he could hope into his Subaru Outback and pick up the kids.
FYI - Subaru Outbacks are Made in USA (Lafayette, IN).

I had no idea. Thanks.
SCRacer said:   ...what percentage of materials are used in the outbacks that are American made...

 

That's part of the trouble WalMart is running into the Truth in Advertising group, according to the article: "To claim “Made in the USA,” all of the components must be manufactured and assembled in the United States."

SCRacer said:   It may be more accurate to say that Subaru Outbacks are assembled in the USA...what percentage of materials are used in the outbacks that are American made, i don't know...Subaru is a Japanese company part of Fuji Heavy Industries (FHI).

buying truly "made in the USA" products trickles down money to all facets of the materials supply chain, manufacturing processes, and American employees along the way, that also includes taxes to local, state, and the federal gov't...and keeps our money here, rather than it going to a foreign company gaining that profit and paying it's taxes to their gov't.

don't get me wrong, i'm in favor of fair trade and fair competition in the market place. the product i buy will be of high quality and will fulfill my needs....AND if they happen to be AMERICAN MADE, that will be a consideration that will prompt me to pay more for it.

Yes, i do pay more for quality products made in America.

  
Kudos for making an important point; supply chains & industrial manufacturing, these days, are complex... so it's often not as simple as checking a label: a Sony TV might be designed in Japan, sourced from all over Southeastern Asia, and assembled in Mexico.  

My own response to the OP's question is also "yes", I would on balance pay incrementally more for something "Made In America"... though, in my opinion, the issue is one of ethics as much as it is one of economics, i.e. when "Made In The USA" means benefiting an American corporation already benefiting from a co-opted government fortified by Delaware courts, a self-servicing tax code written by lobbyists and processed by blind elephants, & an ethical code which prioritizes the Northern Mariana Islands as a manufacturing centre then (obviously) the answer is "hell no!"...  

PS:  There are absurd extremes to which the argument can be taken; one could start with "Made in the USA" and wind up with the Armed Services being in charge of an entire nation's economic output... so I also agree that there has to be some balance of perspective.

= /

PPS:  Buying ethically made products & utilizing ethically made services doesn't have to be more expensive.  A simple example is American Apparel: using Ebates, a coupon code, and a gift card (bought from a gift card exchange) can result in clothes which cost no more than whatever one might buy at Target; in fact, buying irregular multi-packs can result in clothes which are actually cheaper!

Do you mean like made-in-USA Intel processors instead of German-made AMD processors?  Both brands are labelled "MADE IN MALAYSIA".

VBMcGB said:   
So, here's the real question: if you can buy a product that is made in the USA, but it's more expensive, will you do it, or will you go for the cheaper item?
 

  
The question's too vague. It depends on the item, the cost, how long I expect to own it, etc etc

I buy American when I can *and* it makes sense, e.g. if the Chinese potato peeler is $10, and the domestic one $15, and they seem comparable, I'll buy the domestic. A hypothetical however would a $2K Chinese TV vs. a $3K domestic one - I'll save the $1000.

American Giant make fantastic hoodies. Made in the USA from domestic cotton. They cost about twice what a Bangladesh made GAP hoodie costs, but the quality is much better, so I'm happy to pay for and support domestic manufacturing. I only buy American Giant hoodies.

VBMcGB said:   
NoMoneyInMyWallet said:   
VBMcGB said:   A while back I was i a conversation with a neighbor, and he went on a rant about how we need to buy things made here rather than supporting other markets. We had to stop our chat short so he could hope into his Subaru Outback and pick up the kids.
FYI - Subaru Outbacks are Made in USA (Lafayette, IN).

I had no idea. Thanks.
SCRacer said:   ...what percentage of materials are used in the outbacks that are American made...

 

That's part of the trouble WalMart is running into the Truth in Advertising group, according to the article: "To claim “Made in the USA,” all of the components must be manufactured and assembled in the United States."

 
If it's any consolation you can rest assured that Wal-Mart enforces strict standards on its suppliers (e.g. the mandatory RFID tagging which was mandated a couple of years ago)... even though all of the I.T. which allows those standards to be enforced is not exactly "Made in the USA" by the same standard (some of it is in-house, e.g. made at places like Wal-Mart Labs in Brisbane, CA... but some of it comes from big enterprise software companies like IBM which, although servicing a large base of retired employees, increasingly employs a large number of developers overseas)...

NoMoneyInMyWallet said:   
VBMcGB said:   A while back I was i a conversation with a neighbor, and he went on a rant about how we need to buy things made here rather than supporting other markets. We had to stop our chat short so he could hope into his Subaru Outback and pick up the kids.
FYI - Subaru Outbacks are Made in USA (Lafayette, IN).

  Funny fact,
The #1 car made in USA is the Toyota Camry, which is made by Subaru in Lafayette (The same plant).

http://www.stanleysubaru.com/blog/2013/may/8/where-are-subarus-b...

The idea of WalMart championing "Made In America", after all their imported Chinese crap decimated domestic manufacturing, is like Pol Pot championing universities.

right you wont mind paying 400 for a bluray player you can buy now for 69 bucks,,,ugh-huh...look at the price of apple products,,even with child slave labor they are the highest price of everything they make. no, but made in the USA unfortunately doesn't mean anything anymore,,and the number one reason all these company s  left the USA was high UNION labor costs and the Highesest corporate tax rates IN THE WORLD !!! thank you again Politicians,,,

Lol

EBT cards are made in the USA Including the recipients. Does this matter? Talk to my "thin" wallet

Made in the USA is okay, but you can do better than that. Why not Made in My State? If you in live in Montana, why refuse to buy things made by people a few miles north of an imaginary line but be excited to buy things made by people a few miles to the east of a different, but just as imaginary line? Montana residents need to support Montana businesses. I don't know what those people in North Dakota are like, and frankly, I don't want to know. Instead, realize that people on the other side of all imaginary lines are bad.

There's a line for your county, your town, and your neighborhood. If you're a true purist, you'll respect the line that is your property boundary and only buy things made in your own backyard. Think about all the money you'll "keep" in your family that way!

larrymoencurly said:   Do you mean like made-in-USA Intel processors instead of German-made AMD processors?  Both brands are labelled "MADE IN MALAYSIA".
Slight correction: Intel doesn't make processors in Malaysia.  They're made in Arizona, Oregon, New Mexico, China, Israel, Ireland, and formerly Massachusetts(closed in 2015).

mapatsfan said:   
larrymoencurly said:   Do you mean like made-in-USA Intel processors instead of German-made AMD processors?  Both brands are labelled "MADE IN MALAYSIA".
Slight correction: Intel doesn't make processors in Malaysia.  They're made in Arizona, Oregon, New Mexico, China, Israel, Ireland, and formerly Massachusetts(closed in 2015).

  Microprocessors are not made in China.  According to their manufacturing report they only make chipsets in China.  I believe our Goverment will not allow microprocessor to be made in China. As I believe falls into National security and us having the best hardware.  If we make micros in China they they would have all the fab technology to produce the same thing.  They have the largest/oldest fab technolog 65nm while most of the rest of the Intel plants are at 14nm

Per: http://download.intel.com/newsroom/kits/22nm/pdfs/Global-Intel-M...

 

ahhh. made in the usa. assembled in china.

Fat Cash is more important.

tgersinthewhhouse said:   right you wont mind paying 400 for a bluray player you can buy now for 69 bucks,,,ugh-huh...look at the price of apple products,,even with child slave labor they are the highest price of everything they make. no, but made in the USA unfortunately doesn't mean anything anymore,,and the number one reason all these company s  left the USA was high UNION labor costs and the Highesest corporate tax rates IN THE WORLD !!! thank you again Politicians,,,
  Sorry, but that's a wildly simplistic view. Most of the factories that were shuttered in the South were never unionized. As for the tax rate, it's meaningless because you're not taking the deductions into account. Once those are included, the tax rate is average.

What REALLY caused the companies to move is twofold:
1) Cheap overseas labor that the US cannot compete with (unionized or not). Nobody in the US will work for $10 per day and sleep in dorms beside the factory floor. That went out in the 1800's here.
2) Complete lack of environmental, labor and safety regulations overseas, which makes manufacturing much cheaper. Look at the skies of Beijing, and you'll see the price the Chinese are paying for those jobs. US citizens simply won't make that sacrifice anymore, because they're not desperate enough. If you're starving, you don't care if the job causes cancer that will kill you in 10 years. We're not starving, no matter how much people scream that the sky is falling.

 

No matter anybody tries to stop this globalization by buying MADE IN USA, the human population is going to move in that direction. The inequality is creating disturbance on one side which has to level by globalization. So for every effort that will be made against it, there will be hundred more steps in favor of globalization. If one country tries to stop it, that country will fall behind in development and the rest of the world will move forward ( e.g. UK). The developed nation population doesn't like that population from outside are moving in their country or other countries are moving ahead of them. Accept the reality and accept globalization. Work hard everyday thinking there is elsewhere in this world who is working harder than you are and accepts that everyday it is going to be harder as time goes by but with your hard work you will succeed in this globAL world.


actual corporate tax rates, worldwide -- Atlantic Monthly
Disclaimer
tgersinthewhhouse said:   right you wont mind paying 400 for a bluray player you can buy now for 69 bucks,,,ugh-huh...look at the price of apple products,,even with child slave labor they are the highest price of everything they make. no, but made in the USA unfortunately doesn't mean anything anymore,,and the number one reason all these company s  left the USA was high UNION labor costs and the Highesest corporate tax rates IN THE WORLD !!! thank you again Politicians,,,
The US has one of the lowest rates of unionization in the developed and semi-developed world, so how can you blame unions?  Germany's workforce has about twice the rate of union membership, 20%.

The US also has one of the lowest rates of corporate taxation in the world, so how can you blame corporate taxation, other than by equating the top corporate rate to the actual rate?  Or is Intel making about 75% of its investments in the US mainly so it can pay higher taxes?  

ArbitraryChicken said:   Made in the USA is okay, but you can do better than that. Why not Made in My State? If you in live in Montana, why refuse to buy things made by people a few miles north of an imaginary line but be excited to buy things made by people a few miles to the east of a different, but just as imaginary line? Montana residents need to support Montana businesses. I don't know what those people in North Dakota are like, and frankly, I don't want to know. Instead, realize that people on the other side of all imaginary lines are bad.
  How can citizens of Montana buy locally sourced computer memory?  They have to import them from Idaho (Micron).

mapatsfan said:   
larrymoencurly said:   Do you mean like made-in-USA Intel processors instead of German-made AMD processors?  Both brands are labelled "MADE IN MALAYSIA".
Slight correction: Intel doesn't make processors in Malaysia.  They're made in Arizona, Oregon, New Mexico, China, Israel, Ireland, and formerly Massachusetts(closed in 2015).

I didn't say they were made in Malaysia, only labeled as being made there.  Actually the finished chips are put into packages in Malaysia.

More important than 'Made in China'

canoeguy1 said:   
tgersinthewhhouse said:   right you wont mind paying 400 for a bluray player you can buy now for 69 bucks,,,ugh-huh...look at the price of apple products,,even with child slave labor they are the highest price of everything they make. no, but made in the USA unfortunately doesn't mean anything anymore,,and the number one reason all these company s  left the USA was high UNION labor costs and the Highesest corporate tax rates IN THE WORLD !!! thank you again Politicians,,,
  Sorry, but that's a wildly simplistic view. Most of the factories that were shuttered in the South were never unionized. As for the tax rate, it's meaningless because you're not taking the deductions into account. Once those are included, the tax rate is average.

What REALLY caused the companies to move is twofold:
1) Cheap overseas labor that the US cannot compete with (unionized or not). Nobody in the US will work for $10 per day and sleep in dorms beside the factory floor. That went out in the 1800's here.
2) Complete lack of environmental, labor and safety regulations overseas, which makes manufacturing much cheaper. Look at the skies of Beijing, and you'll see the price the Chinese are paying for those jobs. US citizens simply won't make that sacrifice anymore, because they're not desperate enough. If you're starving, you don't care if the job causes cancer that will kill you in 10 years. We're not starving, no matter how much people scream that the s ky is falling.

 

  Add this
3. The ability to import said goods, back into the USA with no tariffs or punitive taxes imposed. (which i think is about to change starting next January)

 PS cars may be assembled here but the profit goes back to Japan or where ever. Its not much of a deciding factor in my purchases but it should be stated.

forbin4040 said:   
NoMoneyInMyWallet said:   
VBMcGB said:   A while back I was i a conversation with a neighbor, and he went on a rant about how we need to buy things made here rather than supporting other markets. We had to stop our chat short so he could hope into his Subaru Outback and pick up the kids.
FYI - Subaru Outbacks are Made in USA (Lafayette, IN).

  Funny fact,
The #1 car made in USA is the Toyota Camry, which is made by Subaru in Lafayette (The same plant).

http://www.stanleysubaru.com/blog/2013/may/8/where-are-subarus-b...

  
WAS.  Ended last month.

tgersinthewhhouse said:   right you wont mind paying 400 for a bluray player you can buy now for 69 bucks,,,ugh-huh...look at the price of apple products,,even with child slave labor they are the highest price of everything they make. no, but made in the USA unfortunately doesn't mean anything anymore,,and the number one reason all these company s  left the USA was high UNION labor costs and the Highesest corporate tax rates IN THE WORLD !!! thank you again Politicians,,,
   in fairness apple products are so expensive because of hype and marketing

forbin4040 said:   
NoMoneyInMyWallet said:   
VBMcGB said:   A while back I was i a conversation with a neighbor, and he went on a rant about how we need to buy things made here rather than supporting other markets. We had to stop our chat short so he could hope into his Subaru Outback and pick up the kids.
FYI - Subaru Outbacks are Made in USA (Lafayette, IN).

  Funny fact,
The #1 car made in USA is the Toyota Camry, which is made by Subaru in Lafayette (The same plant).

http://www.stanleysubaru.com/blog/2013/may/8/where-are-subarus-b...

  
Toyota Camrys are mostly made in Kentucky.  They added an assembly at Subaru in Lafayette just to keep up, but that is ending this year.  http://www.toyotageorgetown.com/  Toyota is huge here in the Commonwealth of Kentucky!  And for the second year in a row, the Toyota Camry is the "most American-made car". 

larrymoencurly said:   
ArbitraryChicken said:   Made in the USA is okay, but you can do better than that. Why not Made in My State? If you in live in Montana, why refuse to buy things made by people a few miles north of an imaginary line but be excited to buy things made by people a few miles to the east of a different, but just as imaginary line? Montana residents need to support Montana businesses. I don't know what those people in North Dakota are like, and frankly, I don't want to know. Instead, realize that people on the other side of all imaginary lines are bad.
  How can citizens of Montana buy locally sourced computer memory?  They have to import them from Idaho (Micron).

  Sounds like something a lazy Idahodian who wants my Montana money would say with his slightly different accent. If Montana folk want computer memory, they should make it themselves. Unfortunately most don't nowadays. They've grown complacent and let Idaho steal all of our good computer memory jobs. That's one of many reasons we need a wall around Montana.

 

In the fatwallet spirit, I have to say that buying quality, wherever it is made is the best value and smartest thing to do. It is also not easy to do anymore. In the 1950s, appliances were built so well they would last forever. Today, they are made with plastic gears and designed to be cheap to make/expensive to fix. A 1994 Nissan, Honda or Toyota will outlast a 2016 Nissan, which was designed to hit a low price point to compete with the Koreans. You will find 40 year old Panasonic pencil sharpeners and tape recorders still working all over the world. Good luck buying one today that will last that long.

I have LL Bean boots that are 25 years old and look new (USA then and now), LL Bean jeans from 35 years ago that are still serving me well (USA then, not now). However, I had US cars that were shot after 10 years, but still have my 23 year old Japanese made car. I treasure the 35 year old Seiko my dad bought me as a kid and still wear daily.

Unless it is a technology product that will become obsolete in 3 years, thoughtful design, engineered to last are more rare than ever, but worth their weight in gold.

forbin4040 said:   
NoMoneyInMyWallet said:   
VBMcGB said:   A while back I was i a conversation with a neighbor, and he went on a rant about how we need to buy things made here rather than supporting other markets. We had to stop our chat short so he could hope into his Subaru Outback and pick up the kids.
FYI - Subaru Outbacks are Made in USA (Lafayette, IN).

  Funny fact,
The #1 car made in USA is the Toyota Camry, which is made by Subaru in Lafayette (The same plant).

http://www.stanleysubaru.com/blog/2013/may/8/where-are-subarus-b...

  and Georgetown, Kentucky  http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7660/~/where-are-toyota-vehicles-assembled-for-the-u.s.-market%3F 
99% of Honda and Acura vehicles sold in the US in 2015 were manufactured in North America  http://hondainamerica.com/manufacturing/
 

Made in the USA is important to me and yes, I will pay more for made in the USA.

What's more important to me is Made in the USA   AND  made by an american company in the USA.  I also try to buy local, but that's not always an option.

That's why even though Toyota (and many other foreign car companies) manufacture in the US, I would rather buy from GM or Ford a vehicle made in the US where the profits also stay in the US.

 

The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.

flyboy said:   Made in the USA is important to me and yes, I will pay more for made in the USA.

What's more important to me is Made in the USA   AND  made by an american company in the USA.  I also try to buy local, but that's not always an option.

That's why even though Toyota (and many other foreign car companies) manufacture in the US, I would rather buy from GM or Ford a vehicle made in the US where the profits also stay in the US.

 

  
You know you can buy stock in Toyota or Honda right? It's not owned by the Japanese government.

I feel like I'm supporting American workers more by buying an American made Toyota, rather than a Mexican made Ford.

Pratchett in FWOT!

ganda said:   Pratchett in FWOT!
It's turtles all the way down.

/ American turtles.

You guys do know FW is owned by a Japanese company, right?

forbin4040 said:   
NoMoneyInMyWallet said:   
VBMcGB said:   A while back I was i a conversation with a neighbor, and he went on a rant about how we need to buy things made here rather than supporting other markets. We had to stop our chat short so he could hope into his Subaru Outback and pick up the kids.
FYI - Subaru Outbacks are Made in USA (Lafayette, IN).

  Funny fact,
The #1 car made in USA is the Toyota Camry, which is made by Subaru in Lafayette (The same plant).

http://www.stanleysubaru.com/blog/2013/may/8/where-are-subarus-b...

  
If I remember correct, the 2007 Camry was the 1st to be made here in USA and first time Toyota had a huge major recall.  It's not because it made in US, but because Toyota went cheap on some important components.

Doesn't matter where it's made.  Quality need care.

The correct argument should be "Assembled in the USA" rather than "Made in the USA." Due to many parts that are not made in the USA.

Skipping 38 Messages...
VBMcGB said:   Speaking of "made in the USA"...

http://flyer.menards.com/flyer_selector/menards?action=show&loca...

I'm glad the flags are made here.



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