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Hey all! We (the content team) are doing a piece for the FatWallet blog on how to save on EpiPens, and during our research we came across these "prescription assistance programs" that seem too good to be true, like http://freedrugcard.us/ and http://www.helprx.info/epipen-discounts-coupons. We were wondering if anyone has had experience using these cards or knows anything about them to help us out. Any help you can provide would be awesome and will probably get you quoted in the post, if you're cool with that.

Thanks!

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not to interrupt the ongoing car safety discussion, but I've used GoodRx repeatedly on a couple prescriptions that
both m... (more)

gomoogo (Dec. 15, 2016 @ 9:24p) |

rljjr0 (Dec. 16, 2016 @ 8:11a) |

Walgreens has one also

rljjr0 (Dec. 16, 2016 @ 8:11a) |

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On the Epipens, I've just added to the Epipen thread (https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/deal-discussion/1518230)
some info I found today:

======
The Epipen manufacturer is quickly rolling out their own "generic":

From an article published on August 29th:

"...drugmaker Mylan today announced it will introduce a generic version of the epinephrine auto-injector for half the current sticker price of the name-brand drug.

According to Mylan, the generic epinephrine shot will be listed at $300 for a pack of two. That’s still three times what the drug cost only eight years ago.

The generic will be identical in every way to EpiPen, says Mylan, and will be sold in two strengths (.15 mg and .30 mg) when it hits pharmacies within “several weeks.”

Rather than just slash the price on EpiPen, Mylan will sell both the generic and the name-brand version (for people who want to pay twice the price, apparently)."

https://consumerist.com/2016/08/29/mylan-to-sell-generic-epipen-...

====
They have also expanded their "savings card" program -- details are in the linked article below.

One thing I saw was that patients earning up to 4 times the "poverty level" income can get the Epipen for FREE (if I'm reading that right).

Also, for people who do have to pay full price, apparently there is a discount program that takes 1/2 off to make it $300 instead of $600.

https://consumerist.com/2016/08/25/under-fire-over-epipen-price-hike-mylan-expands-savings-card-program/

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The only prescription assistance program I know about is one that the local CVS pharmacy applied, without asking him, to my relative's account there, on a prescription that isn't covered by his Medicare or his secondary insurance -- apparently it's some kind of automatic discount that the CVS technician can just code in when my relative gets it filled -- he didn't have to sign up for any prescription card program himself -- it saves him about half of the cost of that particular monthly prescription (for one month, the full cost is $30, half price is $15 obviously).

The only way I know about the existence of it is that sometimes when he gets a pharmacy technician at his CVS who doesn't know him (most of them do know him, he's a longtime customer), they simply charge him the full price for the drug. Last year, he asked me to find out from CVS why some months it costs him $15 and some months it costs him $30, and when I called that store to ask them, they explained to me about this cost reduction program that they can apply when ringing the purchase up.  They continue to be hit-and-miss about applying it automatically, but I have told him to always remind the clerk of that program when he's picking the next 30-day supply of that medication up.

I don't know how extensive that program is -- if it extends to many other medications -- because that one particular drug is the only one he uses that is not covered by either Medicare or his secondary insurance.

===
By the way, this article might have useful info for the people researching the overall prescription-costs issue for the FW blog:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/08/are-you-paying-m... 

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GoodRx . com has been advertising like crazy on tv, radio, etc. about their "discounts" on meds. Just looked at EpiPens and they offer coupons for getting the drug at a lowest cost of $616 USD from Wally World.

The generic EpiPen can be ordered on-line from a vetted Canadian pharmacy for $107 USD.

The coupon may be OK if you have to get something in a hurry, but if you can order, you can save mega-bucks by shopping elsewhere.

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GoodRx and all those non manufacture coupons work only if you don't have insurance and only may save little money on generic rx. You cannot use these programs and your rx insurance at the same time. These programs cannot process as your secondary, but only primary. They claim you can save up to 90%, they actually compare it with retail price. Most independent pharmacy only charges a fraction of the retail price though if the rx is cheap.

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I've been using Goodrx for several years and have saved a lot of money.My wife has Medicare and several medicines that she takes are not covered by the part D plan. One generic is $84 a month full price and with the Goodrx discount it is only $22 a month. Some things are cheaper with the insurance but some are not. It's worth a try and doesn't cost anything to take a look. YMMV

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Discount cards are good in a few instances but for the good of the overall cost of medication, whenever possible get generics instead of a brand name w/ coupon

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Discount prescription cards are a dime a dozen. What is their True Value? YMMV. Another well publicized and often used drug is Nexium.
There is a "savings card", but I am not allowed to use it because I have Medicare Part D. The pharmacist says any Medicare participate is not allowed by the federal government to use these discount cards. This is a pharmacist that I trust implicitly.

https://www.purplepill.com/nexium-savings-card.html

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JW10 said:   Discount prescription cards are a dime a dozen. What is their True Value?  YMMV. Another well publicized and often used drug is Nexium.
There is a "savings card", but I am not allowed to use it because I have Medicare Part D. The pharmacist says any Medicare participate is not allowed by the federal government to use these discount cards. This is a pharmacist that I trust implicitly.

https://www.purplepill.com/nexium-savings-card.html

  Why bother? Proton pump inhibitors are OTC. Regular old Omeprazole works just as well as Nexium, and costs $17 for 42 tablets at Wally World. That's almost 1.5 months, so it
s $12/month.

If for whatever reason you REALLY want brand-name Nexium (no scientific studies to back it up), you can get it for $24 for 1.5 months OTC at Wally World (that's $16 per month)
For the Nexium card, you have to get a doctor's prescription, wait for reimbursement, and then you still have to pay $15 per month!
You save a whole dollar for all that trouble, and pay $3 more than the generic even with the card.
Some discount!

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Mickie3 said:   GoodRx . com has been advertising like crazy on tv, radio, etc. about their "discounts" on meds. Just looked at EpiPens and they offer coupons for getting the drug at a lowest cost of $616 USD from Wally World.

The generic EpiPen can be ordered on-line from a vetted Canadian pharmacy for $107 USD.

The coupon may be OK if you have to get something in a hurry, but if you can order, you can save mega-bucks by shopping elsewhere.

  Which 'vetted' pharmacy is that? Who does the vetting?
Be careful that the 'Canadian' pharmacy is not really a Chinese one, that sells fake, contaminated or out-of-date medications from China/India. There's a lot of money to be made by selling a bit of water in a syringe as an 'Epipen'. SInce they're overseas, they're beyond the reach of law enforcement if someone dies as a result.

There are many options to get Epinephrine besides the Epipen, or going to questionable online pharmacies. Epinephrine costs approx $1 for a single dose. You can prefill a syringe yourself, and just buy the ampule (replace in 3 months or so). You can also buy pre-filled syringes. The only reasons to get an Epipen is because many people know how to use them, and they last longer (approx 18 months). At $600 vs $1, that's a hard sell.

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jianqiangfang said:   GoodRx and all those non manufacture coupons work only if you don't have insurance and only may save little money on generic rx. You cannot use these programs and your rx insurance at the same time. These programs cannot process as your secondary, but only primary. They claim you can save up to 90%, they actually compare it with retail price. Most independent pharmacy only charges a fraction of the retail price though if the rx is cheap.
  Not true. I have insurance and use these cards when their prices are less then insurance copay, which is often in my area. "Hello Mr. Pharmacist, please run this prescription thru this card as primary and not my insurance." "Yes sir saladdin, I'm here to serve the customer."
Easy peasy.

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linuspb said:   I've been using Goodrx for several years and have saved a lot of money.My wife has Medicare and several medicines that she takes are not covered by the part D plan. One generic is $84 a month full price and with the Goodrx discount it is only $22 a month. Some things are cheaper with the insurance but some are not. It's worth a try and doesn't cost anything to take a look. YMMV
  Try blinkhealth. There is a $25 promo floating around off your first order. A sneaky person could just keep using incongito mode each prescription until the promo ends.

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mahoganypoet said:   Hey all! We (the content team) are doing a piece for the FatWallet blog on how to save on EpiPens, and during our research we came across these "prescription assistance programs" that seem too good to be true, like http://freedrugcard.us/ and http://www.helprx.info/epipen-discounts-coupons. We were wondering if anyone has had experience using these cards or knows anything about them to help us out. Any help you can provide would be awesome and will probably get you quoted in the post, if you're cool with that.

Thanks!

  Some things jump out:
1) You need a prescription to use the card. OTC drugs are not covered
2) The card cannot be used to lower your insurance co-pay. ie it has to be the primary claim. You either use your insurance, or the card, but not both. Unless your insurance has a deductible on prescriptions, the insurance rate+copay for the prescription is probably much cheaper.

These guys make their money by getting a big discount from companies like Mylan, and then passing some of it on the the consumer if they use the card. For people with no insurance, this should help (unless there's some other catch I'm not aware of). 

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canoeguy1 said:   
Mickie3 said:   GoodRx . com has been advertising like crazy on tv, radio, etc. about their "discounts" on meds. Just looked at EpiPens and they offer coupons for getting the drug at a lowest cost of $616 USD from Wally World.

The generic EpiPen can be ordered on-line from a vetted Canadian pharmacy for $107 USD.

The coupon may be OK if you have to get something in a hurry, but if you can order, you can save mega-bucks by shopping elsewhere.

  Which 'vetted' pharmacy is that? Who does the vetting?
Be careful that the 'Canadian' pharmacy is not really a Chinese one, that sells fake, contaminated or out-of-date medications from China/India. There's a lot of money to be made by selling a bit of water in a syringe as an 'Epipen'. SInce they're overseas, they're beyond the reach of law enforcement if someone dies as a result.

There are many options to get Epinephrine besides the Epipen, or going to questionable online pharmacies. Epinephrine costs approx $1 for a single dose. You can prefill a syringe yourself, and just buy the ampule (replace in 3 months or so). You can also buy pre-filled syringes. The only reasons to get an Epipen is because many people know how to use them, and they last longer (approx 18 months). At $600 vs $1, that's a hard sell.

  This argument is really getting old. I've yet to see the thousands of people dropping dead from ordering drugs online. No doubt there are some scams but let's not get dramatic. There are certainly cases of US pharmacies giving incorrect doses and US drug makers diluting drugs. There are tons of people crossing the border to get cheap drugs in mexico and I haven't heard of mass deaths. Been on a cruise that stops in mexico? There are dozens and dozens of people that go straight to pharmacies to get cheap medicine, I'm not stepping over bodies on the ship either.


 

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months or so). You can also buy pre-filled syringes. The only reasons to get an Epipen is because many people know how to use them, and they last longer (approx 18 months). At $600 vs $1, that's a hard sell.
  This argument is really getting old. I've yet to see the thousands of people dropping dead from ordering drugs online. No doubt there are some scams but let's not get dramatic. There are certainly cases of US pharmacies giving incorrect doses and US drug makers diluting drugs. There are tons of people crossing the border to get cheap drugs in mexico and I haven't heard of mass deaths. Been on a cruise that stops in mexico? There are dozens and dozens of people that go straight to pharmacies to get cheap medicine, I'm not stepping over bodies on the ship either.


It's crazy to buy pharmaceuticals off the internet, when you have no clue if it's a scam or not. 

For a lifesaving, critical drug like an Epipen, it should be criminal to bet your child's life on it. If you want to roll the dice and get yourself killed, fine. But don't force the consequences of that decision on your kids!

Mexico is not the internet! Those Mexican pharmacies are real pharmacies, selling real products. If they sell fakes, they have an address, and they can be arrested. On the internet, you have absolutely no clue who you're dealing with, or where they operate from.
I'm always amazed at the number of gullible people who just send money to some website based simply on a colorful ad and a low price. Anyone can set up a 'pharmacy' simply by creating a webpage and watching the money roll in.

And no, you will not generally 'drop dead' from fake or diluted drugs (although items like a fake Epipen may very well kill you). They just won't work as they are supposed to!

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saladdin said:   
linuspb said:   I've been using Goodrx for several years and have saved a lot of money.My wife has Medicare and several medicines that she takes are not covered by the part D plan. One generic is $84 a month full price and with the Goodrx discount it is only $22 a month. Some things are cheaper with the insurance but some are not. It's worth a try and doesn't cost anything to take a look. YMMV
  Try blinkhealth. There is a $25 promo floating around off your first order. A sneaky person could just keep using incongito mode each prescription until the promo ends.

  Just tried for a skin cream that sells for INR 54 (in India, called Tenovate). Temovate, the US version is showing up as USD 260 on BlinkHealth. Not sure how to make any sense of this. 

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So far nobody has mentioned Costco pharmacy. They usually have very low prices. Costco also has a discount program.

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eswarjj said:   
saladdin said:   
linuspb said:   I've been using Goodrx for several years and have saved a lot of money.My wife has Medicare and several medicines that she takes are not covered by the part D plan. One generic is $84 a month full price and with the Goodrx discount it is only $22 a month. Some things are cheaper with the insurance but some are not. It's worth a try and doesn't cost anything to take a look. YMMV
  Try blinkhealth. There is a $25 promo floating around off your first order. A sneaky person could just keep using incongito mode each prescription until the promo ends.

  Just tried for a skin cream that sells for INR 54 (in India, called Tenovate). Temovate, the US version is showing up as USD 260 on BlinkHealth. Not sure how to make any sense of this. 

  Wrong spelling. It's Temovate. Sells for $16 using GoodRx.

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canoeguy1 said:   
Mickie3 said:   GoodRx . com has been advertising like crazy on tv, radio, etc. about their "discounts" on meds. Just looked at EpiPens and they offer coupons for getting the drug at a lowest cost of $616 USD from Wally World.

The generic EpiPen can be ordered on-line from a vetted Canadian pharmacy for $107 USD.

The coupon may be OK if you have to get something in a hurry, but if you can order, you can save mega-bucks by shopping elsewhere.

  Which 'vetted' pharmacy is that? Who does the vetting?
Be careful that the 'Canadian' pharmacy is not really a Chinese one, that sells fake, contaminated or out-of-date medications from China/India. There's a lot of money to be made by selling a bit of water in a syringe as an 'Epipen'. SInce they're overseas, they're beyond the reach of law enforcement if someone dies as a result.

There are many options to get Epinephrine besides the Epipen, or going to questionable online pharmacies. Epinephrine costs approx $1 for a single dose. You can prefill a syringe yourself, and just buy the ampule (replace in 3 months or so). You can also buy pre-filled syringes. The only reasons to get an Epipen is because many people know how to use them, and they last longer (approx 18 months). At $600 vs $1, that's a hard sell.

  

Vetting is by PharmacyChecker.com and the Canadian International Pharmacy Association.  These are not fly by night operations, most are places that have a BM as well on-line operation.

Check out http://www.moneytalksnews.com/should-you-buy-your-meds-through-o... if you would like to see some interesting info.

As to the "you won't get real drugs" argument (aka FUD - fear, uncertainty,  doubt) that the FDA at the urging of Big Pharma uses, the following info may clear that BS up:Want more assurance? According to a report by NPR, researchers from the National Bureau of Economic Research ordered samples of drugs commonly used by Americans — including Viagra, Celebrex, Lipitor, Nexium and Zoloft — from 41 online pharmacies based in the United States, Canada, Australia, Europe or Asia. The researchers selected the pharmacies through online searches, just as consumers do.The results: The 328 medication samples they tested that were obtained from any type of certified pharmacy were found to be legitimate. Those that were certified by PharmacyChecker and the Canadian International Pharmacy Association were half as expensive as the drugs ordered from U.S.-based outlets. 

 

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javaman2003 said:   So far nobody has mentioned Costco pharmacy. They usually have very low prices. Costco also has a discount program.
  

Costco used to have their prices for drugs on-line, but looks as if they no longer do that.  Have had a few filled there, but no idea of how they compare as had really good insurance.

 

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canoeguy1 said:   
eswarjj said:   
saladdin said:   
linuspb said:   I've been using Goodrx for several years and have saved a lot of money.My wife has Medicare and several medicines that she takes are not covered by the part D plan. One generic is $84 a month full price and with the Goodrx discount it is only $22 a month. Some things are cheaper with the insurance but some are not. It's worth a try and doesn't cost anything to take a look. YMMV
  Try blinkhealth. There is a $25 promo floating around off your first order. A sneaky person could just keep using incongito mode each prescription until the promo ends.

  Just tried for a skin cream that sells for INR 54 (in India, called Tenovate). Temovate, the US version is showing up as USD 260 on BlinkHealth. Not sure how to make any sense of this. 

  Wrong spelling. It's Temovate. Sells for $16 using GoodRx.

  How does one go about it? On BlinkHealth, use GoodRx?
  btw, I had searched for 'm' Temovate on BlinkHealth. It's called Tenovate with a 'n' in India (http://www.medindia.net/drug-price/clobetasol-propinate/tenovate...

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Holy cow, thanks so much for the discussion and responses, everyone! I'm compiling the relevant info to the piece into quotes, and once it's done, I'll get y'all the link. Thank you so much!

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This might help - In todays paper (Philly) http://www.philly.com/philly/health/Theres-a-cheaper-way-to-get-... But an even less expensive alternative has been available since 2013 -- though because of drug regulations, few patients and even doctors know about it. Horsham-based Lineage Therapeutics has offered a generic form of Adrenaclick, an autoinjector that delivers the same dose of epinephrine as EpiPen, that can be purchased for as little as $146 a pair at WalMart or Sam’s Club with a discount available at the Good Rx website.

http://www.epinephrineautoinject.com/

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canoeguy1 said:   

months or so). You can also buy pre-filled syringes. The only reasons to get an Epipen is because many people know how to use them, and they last longer (approx 18 months). At $600 vs $1, that's a hard sell.
  This argument is really getting old. I've yet to see the thousands of people dropping dead from ordering drugs online. No doubt there are some scams but let's not get dramatic. There are certainly cases of US pharmacies giving incorrect doses and US drug makers diluting drugs. There are tons of people crossing the border to get cheap drugs in mexico and I haven't heard of mass deaths. Been on a cruise that stops in mexico? There are dozens and dozens of people that go straight to pharmacies to get cheap medicine, I'm not stepping over bodies on the ship either.


It's crazy to buy pharmaceuticals off the internet, when you have no clue if it's a scam or not. 

For a lifesaving, critical drug like an Epipen, it should be criminal to bet your child's life on it. If you want to roll the dice and get yourself killed, fine. But don't force the consequences of that decision on your kids!

Mexico is not the internet! Those Mexican pharmacies are real pharmacies, selling real products. If they sell fakes, they have an address, and they can be arrested. On the internet, you have absolutely no clue who you're dealing with, or where they operate from.
I'm always amazed at the number of gullible people who just send money to some website based simply on a colorful ad and a low price. Anyone can set up a 'pharmacy' simply by creating a webpage and watching the money roll in.

And no, you will not generally 'drop dead' from fake or diluted drugs (although items like a fake Epipen may very well kill you). They just won't work as they are supposed to!

  
So one of the leading causes of deaths in children are motor vehicle accidents. You never put your kids in a car? What? You do!! You must not care about their health.

So you're gullible putting your kids in death mobiles..

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canoeguy1 said:   
JW10 said:   Discount prescription cards are a dime a dozen. What is their True Value?  YMMV. Another well publicized and often used drug is Nexium.
There is a "savings card", but I am not allowed to use it because I have Medicare Part D. The pharmacist says any Medicare participate is not allowed by the federal government to use these discount cards. This is a pharmacist that I trust implicitly.

https://www.purplepill.com/nexium-savings-card.html

  Why bother? Proton pump inhibitors are OTC. Regular old Omeprazole works just as well as Nexium, and costs $17 for 42 tablets at Wally World. That's almost 1.5 months, so it
s $12/month.

If for whatever reason you REALLY want brand-name Nexium (no scientific studies to back it up), you can get it for $24 for 1.5 months OTC at Wally World (that's $16 per month)
For the Nexium card, you have to get a doctor's prescription, wait for reimbursement, and then you still have to pay $15 per month!
You save a whole dollar for all that trouble, and pay $3 more than the generic even with the card.
Some discount!

  Check the amount of Nexium on the package compared to the prescription strength.  It is half or less.

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saladdin said:   
canoeguy1 said:   

=
  This argument is really getting old. I've yet to see the thousands of people dropping dead from ordering drugs online. No doubt there are some scams but let's not get dramatic. There are certainly cases of US pharmacies giving incorrect doses and US drug makers diluting drugs. There are tons of people crossing the border to get cheap drugs in mexico and I haven't heard of mass deaths. Been on a cruise that stops in mexico? There are dozens and dozens of people that go straight to pharmacies to get cheap medicine, I'm not stepping over bodies on the ship either.


It's crazy to buy pharmaceuticals off the internet, when you have no clue if it's a scam or not. 

For a lifesaving, critical drug like an Epipen, it should be criminal to bet your child's life on it. If you want to roll the dice and get yourself killed, fine. But don't force the consequences of that decision on your kids!

Mexico is not the internet! Those Mexican pharmacies are real pharmacies, selling real products. If they sell fakes, they have an address, and they can be arrested. On the internet, you have absolutely no clue who you're dealing with, or where they operate from.
I'm always amazed at the number of gullible people who just send money to some website based simply on a colorful ad and a low price. Anyone can set up a 'pharmacy' simply by creating a webpage and watching the money roll in.

And no, you will not generally 'drop dead' from fake or diluted drugs (although items like a fake Epipen may very well kill you). They just won't work as they are supposed to!

  
So one of the leading causes of deaths in children are motor vehicle accidents. You never put your kids in a car? What? You do!! You must not care about their health.

So you're gullible putting your kids in death mobiles..

  When you put your kids in a car, you take all proper safety precautions to minimize risk. ie seatbelts and child car seats. If you don't, you WILL be held criminally responsible (child neglect). You are required to minimize, not eliminate, risk.
Same should go for internet drugs. If your kids are hurt/killed by counterfeit online drugs because you were to cheap to buy FDA-approved ones from a proper store, you should be held criminally responsible. You did not minimize the risk to your kids, and put your wallet before their well-being.

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JW10 said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
JW10 said:   Discount prescription cards are a dime a dozen. What is their True Value?  YMMV. Another well publicized and often used drug is Nexium.
There is a "savings card", but I am not allowed to use it because I have Medicare Part D. The pharmacist says any Medicare participate is not allowed by the federal government to use these discount cards. This is a pharmacist that I trust implicitly.

https://www.purplepill.com/nexium-savings-card.html

  Why bother? Proton pump inhibitors are OTC. Regular old Omeprazole works just as well as Nexium, and costs $17 for 42 tablets at Wally World. That's almost 1.5 months, so it
s $12/month.

If for whatever reason you REALLY want brand-name Nexium (no scientific studies to back it up), you can get it for $24 for 1.5 months OTC at Wally World (that's $16 per month)
For the Nexium card, you have to get a doctor's prescription, wait for reimbursement, and then you still have to pay $15 per month!
You save a whole dollar for all that trouble, and pay $3 more than the generic even with the card.
Some discount!

  Check the amount of Nexium on the package compared to the prescription strength.  It is half or less.

  I am talking about the 20 mg dose. That is the regular dose. No need for a prescription.
If you need a higher dose, you take two 20 mg pills a day (one at morning, one at night), not a higher strength pill. Still no prescription needed.

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canoeguy1 said:   
saladdin said:   
canoeguy1 said:   

=
  This argument is really getting old. I've yet to see the thousands of people dropping dead from ordering drugs online. No doubt there are some scams but let's not get dramatic. There are certainly cases of US pharmacies giving incorrect doses and US drug makers diluting drugs. There are tons of people crossing the border to get cheap drugs in mexico and I haven't heard of mass deaths. Been on a cruise that stops in mexico? There are dozens and dozens of people that go straight to pharmacies to get cheap medicine, I'm not stepping over bodies on the ship either.


It's crazy to buy pharmaceuticals off the internet, when you have no clue if it's a scam or not. 

For a lifesaving, critical drug like an Epipen, it should be criminal to bet your child's life on it. If you want to roll the dice and get yourself killed, fine. But don't force the consequences of that decision on your kids!

Mexico is not the internet! Those Mexican pharmacies are real pharmacies, selling real products. If they sell fakes, they have an address, and they can be arrested. On the internet, you have absolutely no clue who you're dealing with, or where they operate from.
I'm always amazed at the number of gullible people who just send money to some website based simply on a colorful ad and a low price. Anyone can set up a 'pharmacy' simply by creating a webpage and watching the money roll in.

And no, you will not generally 'drop dead' from fake or diluted drugs (although items like a fake Epipen may very well kill you). They just won't work as they are supposed to!

  
So one of the leading causes of deaths in children are motor vehicle accidents. You never put your kids in a car? What? You do!! You must not care about their health.

So you're gullible putting your kids in death mobiles..

  When you put your kids in a car, you take all proper safety precautions to minimize risk. ie seatbelts and child car seats. If you don't, you WILL be held criminally responsible (child neglect). You are required to minimize, not eliminate, risk.
Same should go for internet drugs. If your kids are hurt/killed by counterfeit online drugs because you were to cheap to buy FDA-approved ones from a proper store, you should be held criminally responsible. You did not minimize the risk to your kids, and put your wallet before their well-being.

  You don't want to minimize risk by not putting your kids in a car? You must not love your kids.That's criminal.
See how that works?

 

rated:
saladdin said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
saladdin said:   
canoeguy1 said:   

=
  This argument is really getting old. I've yet to see the thousands of people dropping dead from ordering drugs online. No doubt there are some scams but let's not get dramatic. There are certainly cases of US pharmacies giving incorrect doses and US drug makers diluting drugs. There are tons of people crossing the border to get cheap drugs in mexico and I haven't heard of mass deaths. Been on a cruise that stops in mexico? There are dozens and dozens of people that go straight to pharmacies to get cheap medicine, I'm not stepping over bodies on the ship either.


It's crazy to buy pharmaceuticals off the internet, when you have no clue if it's a scam or not. 

For a lifesaving, critical drug like an Epipen, it should be criminal to bet your child's life on it. If you want to roll the dice and get yourself killed, fine. But don't force the consequences of that decision on your kids!

Mexico is not the internet! Those Mexican pharmacies are real pharmacies, selling real products. If they sell fakes, they have an address, and they can be arrested. On the internet, you have absolutely no clue who you're dealing with, or where they operate from.
I'm always amazed at the number of gullible people who just send money to some website based simply on a colorful ad and a low price. Anyone can set up a 'pharmacy' simply by creating a webpage and watching the money roll in.

And no, you will not generally 'drop dead' from fake or diluted drugs (although items like a fake Epipen may very well kill you). They just won't work as they are supposed to!

  
So one of the leading causes of deaths in children are motor vehicle accidents. You never put your kids in a car? What? You do!! You must not care about their health.

So you're gullible putting your kids in death mobiles..

  When you put your kids in a car, you take all proper safety precautions to minimize risk. ie seatbelts and child car seats. If you don't, you WILL be held criminally responsible (child neglect). You are required to minimize, not eliminate, risk.
Same should go for internet drugs. If your kids are hurt/killed by counterfeit online drugs because you were to cheap to buy FDA-approved ones from a proper store, you should be held criminally responsible. You did not minimize the risk to your kids, and put your wallet before their well-being.

  You don't want to minimize risk by not putting your kids in a car? You must not love your kids.That's criminal.
See how that works?

 

  Actually, it doesn't work. You're just being obstinate and trying hard NOT to understand.

rated:
It's a risk/reward question. Buying internationally carries some additional risk, but also some additional savings. Not buying the car with the best NHTSA crash rating, and the top rated carseat at Consumer Reports, also carries some additional risk, but also some savings.

It's a tradeoff in both cases.

rated:
cestmoi123 said:   It's a risk/reward question. Buying internationally carries some additional risk, but also some additional savings. Not buying the car with the best NHTSA crash rating, and the top rated carseat at Consumer Reports, also carries some additional risk, but also some savings.

It's a tradeoff in both cases.

  Yes. Some risks are at an acceptable level, others are not.
Not buying the car seat with the highest  rating might increase the kid's chance of death by 1 in 10 million over a period of a year.
Not using any car seat at all might increase their risk of death to 1 in 10,000. That's not acceptable to society.

Buying potentially fake Epipens online is more like not using a car seat at all. Assuming that people with fatal allergies need one such pen every 3 years, and assuming that 1 in 10,000 epipens is counterfeit, the chance of death from a fake is 1 in 1500 over a lifetime. That's Sky-high.
Rolling the dice with something like Viagra is probably OK, as long as the fake doesn't actively harm you. Doing it with a lifesaving drug is nuts.

rated:
Hey again everyone! Thanks so much for your contributions; the article was JUST posted here: http://bit.ly/2citmrZ

Special thanks to canoeguy1, oppidum, bb6619, and vadeltachi for their posts. Y'all were featured in the article! We'd love to have more contribution from forum members for future pieces, so keep an eye out for more questions from us.

rated:
When I have had to take a prescription, almost without fail, the prescribing doctor has manufacturer samples as well as a co-pay discount card. Often, the card makes the drug free or the same / cheaper than a generic.

Insurers hate these cards because they encourage patients to fill prescriptions for the name brand medicine rather than a generic - the patient doesn't care, since the cost is the same, but the insurer pays a much larger amount to the pharmacy / manufacturer than they would have on a generic.

For every prescription, I google whether there is a co-pay card available.

rated:
canoeguy1 said:   
cestmoi123 said:   It's a risk/reward question. Buying internationally carries some additional risk, but also some additional savings. Not buying the car with the best NHTSA crash rating, and the top rated carseat at Consumer Reports, also carries some additional risk, but also some savings.

It's a tradeoff in both cases.

  Yes. Some risks are at an acceptable level, others are not.
Not buying the car seat with the highest  rating might increase the kid's chance of death by 1 in 10 million over a period of a year.
Not using any car seat at all might increase their risk of death to 1 in 10,000. That's not acceptable to society.

Buying potentially fake Epipens online is more like not using a car seat at all. Assuming that people with fatal allergies need one such pen every 3 years, and assuming that 1 in 10,000 epipens is counterfeit, the chance of death from a fake is 1 in 1500 over a lifetime. That's Sky -high.
Rolling the dice with something like Viagra is probably OK, as long as the fake doesn't actively harm you. Doing it with a lifesaving drug is nuts.

  

What part of the above info do you NOT understand?  Will repeat it for you:

According to a report by NPR, researchers from the National Bureau of Economic Research ordered samples of drugs commonly used by Americans — including Viagra, Celebrex, Lipitor, Nexium and Zoloft — from 41 online pharmacies based in the United States, Canada, Australia, Europe or Asia. The researchers selected the pharmacies through online searches, just as consumers do.The results: The 328 medication samples they tested that were obtained from any type of certified pharmacy were found to be legitimate. Those that were certified by PharmacyChecker and the Canadian International Pharmacy Association were half as expensive as the drugs ordered from U.S.-based outlets.  


NONE were fakes, get over it!!!!!




 

rated:
Mickie3 said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
cestmoi123 said:   It's a risk/reward question. Buying internationally carries some additional risk, but also some additional savings. Not buying the car with the best NHTSA crash rating, and the top rated carseat at Consumer Reports, also carries some additional risk, but also some savings.

It's a tradeoff in both cases.

  Yes. Some risks are at an acceptable level, others are not.
Not buying the car seat with the highest  rating might increase the kid's chance of death by 1 in 10 million over a period of a year.
Not using any car seat at all might increase their risk of death to 1 in 10,000. That's not acceptable to society.

Buying potentially fake Epipens online is more like not using a car seat at all. Assuming that people with fatal allergies need one such pen every 3 years, and assuming that 1 in 10,000 epipens is counterfeit, the chance of death from a fake is 1 in 1500 over a lifetime. That's Sky -high.
Rolling the dice with something like Viagra is probably OK, as long as the fake doesn't actively harm you. Doing it with a lifesaving drug is nuts.

  

What part of the above info do you NOT understand?  Will repeat it for you:

According to a report by NPR, researchers from the National Bureau of Economic Research ordered samples of drugs commonly used by Americans — including Viagra, Celebrex, Lipitor, Nexium and Zoloft — from 41 online pharmacies based in the United States, Canada, Australia, Europe or Asia. The researchers selected the pharmacies through online searches, just as consumers do.The results: The 328 medication samples they tested that were obtained from any type of certified pharmacy were found to be legitimate. Those that were certified by PharmacyChecker and the Canadian International Pharmacy Association were half as expensive as the drugs ordered from U.S.-based outlets.  


NONE were fakes, get over it!!!!!




 

You have no grasp of statistics. 
A sample size of 300 is totally meaningless when you're talking about a lifesaving drug. Even if only one in 100,000 is counterfeit, that's still way too high since a counterfeit product is lethal in this case.. With a sample size of 300, you can say with some confidence that your chances of getting a counterfeit item are better than 1 in 50. THAT'S IT!

1 in 50 is very far removed from 1 in 100,000!
Try to learn some basic math before spewing stuff like this.

rated:
canoeguy1 said:   
Mickie3 said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
cestmoi123 said:   It's a risk/reward question. Buying internationally carries some additional risk, but also some additional savings. Not buying the car with the best NHTSA crash rating, and the top rated carseat at Consumer Reports, also carries some additional risk, but also some savings.

It's a tradeoff in both cases.

  Yes. Some risks are at an acceptable level, others are not.
Not buying the car seat with the highest  rating might increase the kid's chance of death by 1 in 10 million over a period of a year.
Not using any car seat at all might increase their risk of death to 1 in 10,000. That's not acceptable to society.

Buying potentially fake Epipens online is more like not using a car seat at all. Assuming that people with fatal allergies need one such pen every 3 years, and assuming that 1 in 10,000 epipens is counterfeit, the chance of death from a fake is 1 in 1500 over a lifetime. That's Sky -high.
Rolling the dice with something like Viagra is probably OK, as long as the fake doesn't actively harm you. Doing it with a lifesaving drug is nuts.

  

What part of the above info do you NOT understand?  Will repeat it for you:

According to a report by NPR, researchers from the National Bureau of Economic Research ordered samples of drugs commonly used by Americans — including Viagra, Celebrex, Lipitor, Nexium and Zoloft — from 41 online pharmacies based in the United States, Canada, Australia, Europe or Asia. The researchers selected the pharmacies through online searches, just as consumers do.The results: The 328 medication samples they tested that were obtained from any type of certified pharmacy were found to be legitimate. Those that were certified by PharmacyChecker and the Canadian International Pharmacy Association were half as expensive as the drugs ordered from U.S.-based outlets.  


NONE were fakes, get over it!!!!!




 

You have no grasp of statistics. 
A sample size of 300 is totally meaningless when you're talking about a lifesaving drug. Even if only one in 100,000 is counterfeit, that's still way too high since a counterfeit product is lethal in this case.. With a sample size of 300, you can say with some confidence that your chances of getting a counterfeit item are better than 1 in 50. THAT'S IT!

1 in 50 is very far removed from 1 in 100,000!
Try to learn some basic math before spewing stuff like this.

  

I got my Econometric (statistical Economics) graduate degree (MBA) at a top tier school, where did you get yours?  Maybe you should go back and take a look at stat theory on sample sizes and you will see that they are not at all like you are thinking they are.   A sample size of 300 and one of 3000 are statistically indistinguishable, given a large universe.

Also, I find it rather amusing that you ASSume that nobody who buys drugs from a local pharmacy in the US has NEVER been given a fake or fraudulent dosage drug.  This has happened on numerous occasions:

"Counterfeit Drugs Are Flooding the Nation's Pharmacies And Hospitals" 
http://www.aarp.org/health/drugs-supplements/info-2016/counterfe...


"Fake Drugs - All At a Pharmacy Near You!"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2012/02/16/fake-drugs-al...










 

rated:


I got my Econometric (statistical Economics) graduate degree (MBA) at a top tier school, where did you get yours?  Maybe you should go back and take a look at stat theory on sample sizes and you will see that they are not at all like you are thinking they are.   A sample size of 300 and one of 3000 are statistically indistinguishable, given a large universe.

Also, I find it rather amusing that you ASSume that nobody who buys drugs from a local pharmacy in the US has NEVER been given a fake or fraudulent dosage drug.  This has happened on numerous occasions:

"Counterfeit Drugs Are Flooding the Nation's Pharmacies And Hospitals" 
http://www.aarp.org/health/drugs-supplements/info-2016/counterfe... 


"Fake Drugs - All At a Pharmacy Near You!"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2012/02/16/fake-drugs-al... 









 

If you want to learn, and not just claim bogus degrees that you clearly don't have, here's a link to an article that explains the math. Look at the final example.

http://asq.org/quality-progress/2007/11/basic-quality/zero-defec...

Using this methodology, you would have to inspect 300,000 products to have a 95% confidence that the defect rate is 1 in 100,000 or better. Normally, you go for far higher confidence levels, though. ie 99%.Then you need to inspect 500,000 products!!
Your 300 sample size is a joke. I wouldn't even buy basic OTC drugs with the defect rate that allows.

Of course, US pharmacies also have bad products, but the rate will be extremely low (for something like an Epipen, probably 1 in 10 million or better), and each batch will be rigorously tested using proper, mathematics-based sampling, not just seat-of-the-pants 'gut feelings' that you're employing.

rated:
canoeguy1 said:   Mickie3 said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
cestmoi123 said:   It's a risk/reward question. Buying internationally carries some additional risk, but also some additional savings. Not buying the car with the best NHTSA crash rating, and the top rated carseat at Consumer Reports, also carries some additional risk, but also some savings.

It's a tradeoff in both cases.

  Yes. Some risks are at an acceptable level, others are not.
Not buying the car seat with the highest  rating might increase the kid's chance of death by 1 in 10 million over a period of a year.
Not using any car seat at all might increase their risk of death to 1 in 10,000. That's not acceptable to society.

Buying potentially fake Epipens online is more like not using a car seat at all. Assuming that people with fatal allergies need one such pen every 3 years, and assuming that 1 in 10,000 epipens is counterfeit, the chance of death from a fake is 1 in 1500 over a lifetime. That's Sky -high.
Rolling the dice with something like Viagra is probably OK, as long as the fake doesn't actively harm you. Doing it with a lifesaving drug is nuts.

  

What part of the above info do you NOT understand?  Will repeat it for you:

According to a report by NPR, researchers from the National Bureau of Economic Research ordered samples of drugs commonly used by Americans — including Viagra, Celebrex, Lipitor, Nexium and Zoloft — from 41 online pharmacies based in the United States, Canada, Australia, Europe or Asia. The researchers selected the pharmacies through online searches, just as consumers do.The results: The 328 medication samples they tested that were obtained from any type of certified pharmacy were found to be legitimate. Those that were certified by PharmacyChecker and the Canadian International Pharmacy Association were half as expensive as the drugs ordered from U.S.-based outlets.  


NONE were fakes, get over it!!!!!




 

You have no grasp of statistics. 
A sample size of 300 is totally meaningless when you're talking about a lifesaving drug. Even if only one in 100,000 is counterfeit, that's still way too high since a counterfeit product is lethal in this case.. With a sample size of 300, you can say with some confidence that your chances of getting a counterfeit item are better than 1 in 50. THAT'S IT!

1 in 50 is very far removed from 1 in 100,000!
Try to learn some basic math before spewing stuff like this.
  

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rated:
Walgreens has one also

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