Kohls scam - what's the angle?

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I purchased this:

http://homestore-usa.com/shark-nv752-rotator-powered-lift-away-t...

for $290, shipped. Lowest price online, free shipping, no tax.  Couldn't find any info on the site anywhere but they took paypal so I decided to roll the dice.

Paypal charge goes through, but it's to some foreign name, not the name of the site.  Hmmm... 

2 days later, I get a brand new shark vac sitting on my doorstep.  Phew!  But wait a minute, what's this - it's from Kohls.com.  wtf?  The tag reads "gift purchase".  

My name/address is the "Ship-To"
Some other person, normal name is the 'Bill-to" ... and this person's address is about an hour away from me.

I'm assuming this is some kind of scam - thoughts?

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Really?  You don't think that the CC will just eat the loss?

Xnarg1 (Jan. 19, 2017 @ 7:40p) |

FYI, the credit card company never eat fraud costs, it always goes back as a chargeback to the retailer. This is one of ... (more)

emp1 (Feb. 05, 2017 @ 6:11p) |

This. ^  A couple years ago numerous users were selling ON whey on the Sears Marketplace for an absurdly low prices - li... (more)

420 (Feb. 05, 2017 @ 9:27p) |

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Not a scam.

It was 'drop shipped', meaning that the place that you bought it from then purchased this from Kohls and told Kohls to ship it to you directly, skipping the middle man.

Possible scam is in them using stolen credit cards to drop ship merchandise.

There have been reports of people having their Kohl's accounts hacked and fake orders created to harvest Kohl's cash. If they are now shipping these fraudulent orders to some one paying for the goods, the fraudsters are just being more efficient.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/02/fraudsters-tap-kohls-cash-fo...

deleted

not a scam...the other guys name is the seller.
I used to do this.

I would order online and send it directly to the buyer and mark it as gift so that they dont put an receipt in the box.

I have at times ordered diapers from Amazon only to see it being directly shipped from Huggies Warehouse.

But Kohls is selling this item for $430:

http://www.kohls.com/product/prd-2166289/shark-nv752-rotator-pow...

I could buy the drop ship thing if I paid that ... but I paid $290. Starting to think devyanks90 is on the right track...

CowbellMaster said:   But Kohls is selling this item for $430:

http://www.kohls.com/product/prd-2166289/shark-nv752-rotator-pow... 

I could buy the drop ship thing if I paid that ... but I paid $290. Starting to think devyanks90 is on the right track...

  % off discounts do work with Shark so 30% off would get to $301. Still no margin there even with portal cashback.

430*30%=301+tax-60 Kohls cash-15$ cashback. still good deal if Kohls price was 430 with no sale price. some times they have sale price that drops further...

Most likely a bad site (without saying how he got his funds)

This site was created on 2016-12-29.
It shows this guy lives in CA (In the middle of a concert hall)
Has a return address in Indiana which is an empty lot.
A contact us located next to a mall (not in a mall mind you, next to a mall as in street)
And an impossible to Dial phone number (Starts with a 1).

Most likely the 'Bill To' is the owner of the Khols card.

What "ebestbuy" says.
I use 30% off coupon codes all the time.
The buyer gets the Kohl cash, the Ebates cash back, and the credit card points.
Pretty sweet deal if everything goes as planned. Making money off somebody elses purchase!!
Nightmare if something goes wrong.

jigsaw1975 said:   I have at times ordered diapers from Amazon only to see it being directly shipped from Huggies Warehouse.
  That is a different setup, Amazon workers inside P&G warehouse direct shipping.

http://seekingalpha.com/news/1327672-amazon-workers-shipping-goo...

OP's example of the Seller buying with a credit card and then shipping to the Buyer is not traditional drop shipping.

You can always buy from reputable buyer and use Price Priotection or
Price rewind in credit card

So in a preponderance of caution, I opened a case with PayPal and said I suspected this may be fraudulent. Within 2 hours, before escalation, seller refunded 100%. No communication. Hmmmmmmmmm

CowbellMaster said:   I purchased this:

http://homestore-usa.com/shark-nv752-rotator-powered-lift-away-t... 

for $290, shipped. Lowest price online, free shipping, no tax.  Couldn't find any info on the site anywhere but they took paypal so I decided to roll the dice.

Paypal charge goes through, but it's to some foreign name, not the name of the site.  Hmmm... 

2 days later, I get a brand new shark vac sitting on my doorstep.  Phew!  But wait a minute, what's this - it's from Kohls.com.  wtf?  The tag reads "gift purchase".  

My name/address is the "Ship-To"
Some other person, normal name is the 'Bill-to" ... and this person's address is about an hour away from me.

I'm assuming this is some kind of scam - thoughts?

Check out the Home Store website. http://homestore-usa.com/delivery-information/ 

Notice the use of and the lack of English grammar, this is clearly an offshore company masquerading as a legitimate website.

"No minimum order amount. If the order amount is low, we'll still offer free shipping but it is for airmail only. You can opt to upgrade to Express shipping for a fee during checkout. No surcharge for remote areas. With free shipping your package will delivery in 5-7 days."

Can't wait to see how this all works out, please keep us posted.

CowbellMaster said:   So in a preponderance of caution, I opened a case with PayPal and said I suspected this may be fraudulent. Within 2 hours, before escalation, seller refunded 100%. No communication. Hmmmmmmmmm
  
I see a new FW deal: scamming the scammer for free stuff

dont look a gift horse in the Mouth

1.
find fault with something that has been received as a gift or favor.

Similar experience of receiving an item purchased from an Amazon 3rd party seller being shipped from Kohl's, at much lower price than the Kohl's price. Assumed it was purchased with Kohl's cash but the price difference does make me wonder too.

Here's what I'm thinking:

It's the scam as linked to above by devyanks90 just with the added bonus of a fake storefront. They collect paypal payments that will eventually be transferred to their account, but they get the Kohls cash immediately. The latter is guaranteed, the paypal money is gravy if it pans out.

Scammer saw my message, which basically said "I think this may be fraud" and immediately refunded my money to:

1) shut me up
2) keep paypal from looking at them w/human eyes

If they fought they'd be shut down and their scheme comes to an immediate end. At this point, how do I even notify PayPal there's a fraudster doing illegal things, my case was closed satisfactory!

So here I am with the item and a fully refunded charge. Scammer is out nothing - in fact they still have (and probably already spent) the Kohl's cash. The person whose account they hacked will eventually notice a $400+ (after tax) charge and call in. I will call Kohls shortly, I suppose, to give them a heads up. Thoughts on that strategy?

Kohl's should require online-purchase generated Kohl's cash to show ID when presented in-store. That would shut this scam down quick.

Xnarg1 said:   
CowbellMaster said:   So in a preponderance of caution, I opened a case with PayPal and said I suspected this may be fraudulent. Within 2 hours, before escalation, seller refunded 100%. No communication. Hmmmmmmmmm
  
I see a new FW deal: scamming the scammer for free stuff

  
Yup.  If this used stolen card, it's not being refunded to victim.  Victim likely will never find out or be able to contact CowbellMaster.  If s/he does, might get a credit refund a CC's expense.  
 

CowbellMaster said:   Here's what I'm thinking:

It's the scam as linked to above by devyanks90 just with the added bonus of a fake storefront. They collect paypal payments that will eventually be transferred to their account, but they get the Kohls cash immediately. The latter is guaranteed, the paypal money is gravy if it pans out.

Scammer saw my message, which basically said "I think this may be fraud" and immediately refunded my money to:

1) shut me up
2) keep paypal from looking at them w/human eyes

If they fought they'd be shut down and their scheme comes to an immediate end. At this point, how do I even notify PayPal there's a fraudster doing illegal things, my case was closed satisfactory!

So here I am with the item and a fully refunded charge. Scammer is out nothing - in fact they still have (and probably already spent) the Kohl's cash. The person whose account they hacked will eventually notice a $400+ (after tax) charge and call in. I will call Kohls shortly, I suppose, to give them a heads up. Thoughts on that strategy?

Kohl's should require online-purchase generated Kohl's cash to show ID when presented in-store. That would shut this scam down quick.

  
Very little you can do.  Kohl's and Paypal both are not interested in having human eyes look at this, which costs them money and gets them nothing.
As a company, the more you know, the more you're liable, so no benefit in knowing more, either.

Finally, even if they cam to find out, in the 21st century, they'll have insulated themselves using an arbitration clause.  For small items, they might still refund, as even arbitration is more expensive than throwing an occasional bone.  (Although the primary dissuasive nature of arbitration is that the receiving end will never issue a challenge in the first place because they know they can't win and can't find legal representation.)

PS: It doesn't have to be illegitimate, e.g., it might be somebody trying to cash out his Kohl's cash.  I was in that position before, and am currently again with Newegg.  What do I do with an expiring credit and nothing I want to buy?  But most places explicitly ban drop ship, so even if I might use drop ship to recover 60c on the $1, I may be forced to refund money in case somebody raises a stink invalidates my Kohl's cash and gets me banned?

Interesting. So what would you do in this situation - should I contact Kohls or am I opening myself up to unnecessary hassle?

Great pricematch opportunity using that site for a 3rd generation Nest. Buy it at Amazon for $250 and then screenshot the site and send it to Discover or Citi and get the $80 back for the difference.

devyanks90 said:   There have been reports of people having their Kohl's accounts hacked and fake orders created to harvest Kohl's cash. If they are now shipping these fraudulent orders to some one paying for the goods, the fraudsters are just being more efficient.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/02/fraudsters-tap-kohls-cash-for-cold-cash/

this happened to me, although the guy only bought like a ~$70 vacuum and sent it to some guy (or i guess himself) in michigan. only card i had on my account was my Kohl's card, so i called them up and they took care of the charge pretty quickly, and forced me to change my password. about a month later i was going to place an actual order, and i had inexplicably been locked out, and had to call again..eventually also sent me a new card without my asking.

kind of confusing though, since the Kohl's cash that was issued went to my email (and i was able to use it), which did not appear to have been hacked. changed that password anyway, to be safe. maybe they used to have the Kohl's cash appear on the order confirmation page or something, so they could steal it that way?

forbin4040 said:   Most likely a bad site (without saying how he got his funds)

This site was created on 2016-12-29.
It shows this guy lives in CA (In the middle of a concert hall)
Has a return address in Indiana which is an empty lot.
A contact us located next to a mall (not in a mall mind you, next to a mall as in street)
And an impossible to Dial phone number (Starts with a 1).

Most likely the 'Bill To' is the owner of the Khols card.

Here's another site that looks the same, uses the same return shipping address in Indiana, and has the same person as the domain registrant: http://ematekco.com/return-policy/ 

WHOIS
https://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=homestore-usa.com 
https://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=ematekco.com   

You possess merchandise that you did not pay for and that you believe is stolen. Contact Kohl's and PayPal.

EradicateSpam said:   You possess merchandise that you did not pay for and that you believe is stolen. Contact Kohl's and PayPal.
 This.
But be sure to do it in an OFFICIAL way, that you know is recorded somewhere where you can later access it. I would suggest using registered mail, not a phone! You want to be sure that you have a paper trail in case the police actually investigate this. They might consider you to be part of the scam, unless you can prove otherwise. That's doubly true since you received a refund and still have the goods.
Most likely, nothing will come of it and you can keep the merchandise. The cost of the registered mail is cheap in comparison.  

http://www.scamadviser.com/check-website/homestore-usa.com

Not good news for you. Knowing you filed a fraud report with paypal and you may have merchandise from Kohls that was obtained illegally means you have to take action. you could contact Kohls to investigate. Knowing you may have stolen property means you must contact Kohls or police or both.

At least you got your money back since its possible he close down his paypal and you have nothing.

Now..if for example you bought the unit and it did not work correctly and you wanted a refund..then you could keep the unit..most times the seller does not want the item back. But in this case...you already suspected fraud..therefore you cannot bury your head in the sand. Last thing you need is a detective coming to your door.

just enjoy your item! you got a good price

Kohl's associates get 35% off. Some staff may get more.

Every day, thousands of cards are stolen, one do not go around finding something. It will be a lot of hassle, time wastage etc. Just enjoy what you got rather than taking the headache.

CowbellMaster said:   So what would you do in this situation

Order more stuff. You're over thinking this. You scammed a scammer. I bet they'd cancel if you ordered from them again.

Edit: The return address is a woman on the side of the road walking a dog.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6178752,-86.526868,3a,75y,267.65...

It is better to be honest because in the long run it is more important what the real Master (God) thinks of you instead of how cheap you can get something. Also think if you were on the other end and someone stole your credit card and somehow the CC company made you pay.

withnoe said:   It is better to be honest because in the long run it is more important what the real Master (God) thinks of you instead of how cheap you can get something. Also think if you were on the other end and someone stole your credit card and somehow the CC company made you pay.
  
Welcome to 2017 where we reset our brains to 100 years ago.  Can't wait for those manufacturing jobs!

I'll definitely notify Kohls, it's just a question of timing. I did pay $290 for the thing, and although I got notification of an impending refund all I see on my CC is the $290 charge. As soon as I see the credit I'll give them a call and let them know what's what.

Totally a drop ship scam. Sell something online, get cash via paypal, use stolen credit card to buy item and have it shipped to unsuspecting consumer.


You were notified you were refunded by paypal? Yeah, TOTAL scam. Paypal figured out this seller's volume was too high or committing some fraud and is refunding people. I would be prepared for Kohl's to ask for their product back. 

Occasional said:   Totally a drop ship scam. Sell something online, get cash via paypal, use stolen credit card to buy item and have it shipped to unsuspecting consumer.


You were notified you were refunded by paypal? Yeah, TOTAL scam. Paypal figured out this seller's volume was too high or committing some fraud and is refunding people. I would be prepared for Kohl's to ask for their product back. 

  
Really?  You don't think that the CC will just eat the loss?  

Xnarg1 said:   Occasional said:   Totally a drop ship scam. Sell something online, get cash via paypal, use stolen credit card to buy item and have it shipped to unsuspecting consumer.


You were notified you were refunded by paypal? Yeah, TOTAL scam. Paypal figured out this seller's volume was too high or committing some fraud and is refunding people. I would be prepared for Kohl's to ask for their product back. 

  
Really?  You don't think that the CC will just eat the loss?  

FYI, the credit card company never eat fraud costs, it always goes back as a chargeback to the retailer. This is one of the reasons cc companies are so quick to give you a refund.

They might ask for the product back but probably not, a couple hundred $ is probably not worth their time. Although one time Staples double shipped an order to me by accident and they did call to ask for it back, it was about $300 - $400 worth of goods.

alamo11 said:   Possible scam is in them using stolen credit cards to drop ship merchandise.
  
This. ^  A couple years ago numerous users were selling ON whey on the Sears Marketplace for an absurdly low prices - like $30 for 10 lbs.  I ordered several and each one came from bodybuilding.com with a different buyer's name.  Other people on SD all had the same experience - all from bb.com with hundreds of different names listed in the buyer field  I sent bodybuilding.com numerous emails about it, but they never even replied.  



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