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DTASFAB said:   I don't know where all you people are walking into a dealership and driving off the lot in a matter of minutes or hours. All the dealers in my area require at least a day for prep before they'll let you drive away in whatever vehicle they're selling to you.
  
Same here in Boston area, people at dealership works so slowly. Even after the price is all settled over the phone and email, it takes hours to drive away in the new car. They won't get everything ready before you come in because they afraid you don't show up and waste all their time, which I understand. But it typically takes them 1 hr to pull the car out because "it is in another lot". They wait til the new car arrives to begin checking your trade-in, and that is an hour (they didn't pull it into a bay, they just slowly do the paperwork or whatever). Then it is to wait 1 hr for the finance guy to free up. The actual paper work was 20 mins (with 15 mins of sales pitch of warranties). 

If they streamline and do everything in parallel, it should be an hour and 1/2 max. But I have experienced 4 to 7 hrs wait. And the reason I don't just get up and leave is, you always think it can't possible take an hour to drive the new car out right? Then 30 mins and 1 hr passed... The trade in have been sitting in the same parking spot for 2 hrs, they must have some tech guy already gone through everything right? nope, one slow step after another, every time...

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Responses in bold:
gwillison said:   Thanks for the replies, just to clarify...

1. Is credit union financing considered cash? Is financing through the dealer considered cash too? Im confused as to what they consider cash and what is not cash. When a credit union gives me a loan, do they provide a check, and immedaitley the dealer cashes it and gets the cash?

Doesn't matter.  "Cash deals" don't really mean anything.  If they try to get you distracted by talking about financing, just tell 'em, "let's talk price."

2. So do I go in and say "I already have financing, I only want to talk price".....or, not even mention that I have been pre-approved and just talk price.

You could say that, but I wouldn't.  Just talk price.

3. I plan on buying the last day of the month, to get the best deal. Im sure they will want me to buy the car that day if they truly are willing to drop the price to meet budget. If I tell them "I will bring you the check tomorrow" doesn't that mess up the deal? I had planned on going to the dealer early, getting the best deal (or going to different dealers), then driving to the credit union to get the actual check. THat way I can make the whole thing happen on the last day of the month, where you are supposed to get the best deal.

In my experience, the sales contract will be dated the day you make the deal.  Bringing in the check a few days later shouldn't have any impact on your "best deal."  I'm not so sure that makes a difference anyway; dealers are motivated to make sales 365 days a year.

Thanks for all the help, glad I found this thread.

FYI, its a 2017 Elantra I plan on getting. Truecar.com says I can get one for $15,900, im hoping I can get it for closer to $15,300 on the last day of the month, realistic that I can get that far below true car?


As an aside, I once made it in and out of a dealership in about 30 minutes.  It was a Sunday afternoon, and the dealership was closing.  I walked in with the printout of the dealer inventory sheet and said, "I'd like to buy this one, and this is what I want to pay, out the door."  They locked the door behind me and wrote up the deal, I wrote them a check and was on my way. 

There's no way I'd give them more than a couple of hours of my time.  That's just getting taken advantage of.

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tszyeung said:   
DTASFAB said:   I don't know where all you people are walking into a dealership and driving off the lot in a matter of minutes or hours. All the dealers in my area require at least a day for prep before they'll let you drive away in whatever vehicle they're selling to you.
  
Same here in Boston area, people at dealership works so slowly. Even after the price is all settled over the phone and email, it takes hours to drive away in the new car. They won't get everything ready before you come in because they afraid you don't show up and waste all their time, which I understand. But it typically takes them 1 hr to pull the car out because "it is in another lot". They wait til the new car arrives to begin checking your trade-in, and that is an hour (they didn't pull it into a bay, they just slowly do the paperwork or whatever). Then it is to wait 1 hr for the finance guy to free up. The actual paper work was 20 mins (with 15 mins of sales pitch of warranties). 

If they streamline and do everything in parallel, it should be an hour and 1/2 max. But I have experienced 4 to 7 hrs wait. And the reason I don't just get up and leave is, you always think it can't possible take an hour to drive the new car out right? Then 30 mins and 1 hr passed... The trade in have been sitting in the same parking spot for 2 hrs, they must have some tech guy already gone through everything right? nope, one slow step after another, every time...

  So ... what happens if you roll in half an hour before their posted closing time? I bet if you came at 5pm on a Friday, they'd get you the car to drive out by 6PM

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rufflesinc said:   
tszyeung said:   
DTASFAB said:   I don't know where all you people are walking into a dealership and driving off the lot in a matter of minutes or hours. All the dealers in my area require at least a day for prep before they'll let you drive away in whatever vehicle they're selling to you.
  
Same here in Boston area, people at dealership works so slowly. Even after the price is all settled over the phone and email, it takes hours to drive away in the new car. They won't get everything ready before you come in because they afraid you don't show up and waste all their time, which I understand. But it typically takes them 1 hr to pull the car out because "it is in another lot". They wait til the new car arrives to begin checking your trade-in, and that is an hour (they didn't pull it into a bay, they just slowly do the paperwork or whatever). Then it is to wait 1 hr for the finance guy to free up. The actual paper work was 20 mins (with 15 mins of sales pitch of warranties). 

If they streamline and do everything in parallel, it should be an hour and 1/2 max. But I have experienced 4 to 7 hrs wait. And the reason I don't just get up and leave is, you always think it can't possible take an hour to drive the new car out right? Then 30 mins and 1 hr passed... The trade in have been sitting in the same parking spot for 2 hrs, they must have some tech guy already gone through everything right? nope, one slow step after another, every time...

  So ... what happens if you roll in half an hour before their posted closing time? I bet if you came at 5pm on a Friday, they'd get you the car to drive out by 6PM

  Bring your checkbook to NY and we'll try it together.

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gwillison said:   Thanks for the replies, just to clarify...

1. Is credit union financing considered cash? Is financing through the dealer considered cash too? Im confused as to what they consider cash and what is not cash. When a credit union gives me a loan, do they provide a check, and immedaitley the dealer cashes it and gets the cash?

2. So do I go in and say "I already have financing, I only want to talk price".....or, not even mention that I have been pre-approved and just talk price.

3. I plan on buying the last day of the month, to get the best deal. Im sure they will want me to buy the car that day if they truly are willing to drop the price to meet budget. If I tell them "I will bring you the check tomorrow" doesn't that mess up the deal? I had planned on going to the dealer early, getting the best deal (or going to different dealers), then driving to the credit union to get the actual check. THat way I can make the whole thing happen on the last day of the month, where you are supposed to get the best deal.

Thanks for all the help, glad I found this thread.

FYI, its a 2017 Elantra I plan on getting. Truecar.com says I can get one for $15,900, im hoping I can get it for closer to $15,300 on the last day of the month, realistic that I can get that far below true car?

  Don't talk about how you're going to pay for it until you have a bottom-line price. If they tell you that there's an option for a rebate that requires financing, tell them "we can talk about that when we agree to a price."

Each leg of the transaction should be separate, new vehicle price, old vehicle price and financing (if applicable).

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DTASFAB said:   
rufflesinc said:   
tszyeung said:   
DTASFAB said:   I don't know where all you people are walking into a dealership and driving off the lot in a matter of minutes or hours. All the dealers in my area require at least a day for prep before they'll let you drive away in whatever vehicle they're selling to you.
  
Same here in Boston area, people at dealership works so slowly. Even after the price is all settled over the phone and email, it takes hours to drive away in the new car. They won't get everything ready before you come in because they afraid you don't show up and waste all their time, which I understand. But it typically takes them 1 hr to pull the car out because "it is in another lot". They wait til the new car arrives to begin checking your trade-in, and that is an hour (they didn't pull it into a bay, they just slowly do the paperwork or whatever). Then it is to wait 1 hr for the finance guy to free up. The actual paper work was 20 mins (with 15 mins of sales pitch of warranties). 

If they streamline and do everything in parallel, it should be an hour and 1/2 max. But I have experienced 4 to 7 hrs wait. And the reason I don't just get up and leave is, you always think it can't possible take an hour to drive the new car out right? Then 30 mins and 1 hr passed... The trade in have been sitting in the same parking spot for 2 hrs, they must have some tech guy already gone through everything right? nope, one slow step after another, every time...

  So ... what happens if you roll in half an hour before their posted closing time? I bet if you came at 5pm on a Friday, they'd get you the car to drive out by 6PM

  Bring your checkbook to NY and we'll try it together.

  
From past experience, I determined that no matter when you show up, that you won't be driving home until the dealer closes. I then tried the show-up-at-closing-time method. The people just stayed late. I've concluded that you can't drive off in a car in less than 3 hours. That last time I had no trade-in, had cash, and a cert for an employee discount and didn't need to dicker on price. Didn't make a difference.

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Chyvan said:   
From past experience, I determined that no matter when you show up, that you won't be driving home until the dealer closes. I then tried the show-up-at-closing-time method. The people just stayed late. I've concluded that you can't drive off in a car in less than 3 hours. That last time I had no trade-in, had cash, and a cert for an employee discount and didn't need to dicker on price. Didn't make a difference.  


Wow - There's no way I would stand for this.  You all are forgetting who's the customer.
 

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dcwilbur said:   
Chyvan said:   
From past experience, I determined that no matter when you show up, that you won't be driving home until the dealer closes. I then tried the show-up-at-closing-time method. The people just stayed late. I've concluded that you can't drive off in a car in less than 3 hours. That last time I had no trade-in, had cash, and a cert for an employee discount and didn't need to dicker on price. Didn't make a difference.  


Wow - There's no way I would stand for this.  You all are forgetting who's the customer.

Up in Boston, dealership services for Econ box cars are just bad. Sure, you can get up anytime and leave. However, you just reset the clock of the 4-7 hrs process and starting all over again at other equally slow dealership. I also absolutely believe if I were in a BMW dealership , the experience would be vastly different. 

Also, agreed with Chyvan, the timing of your arrival to the dealership is irrelevant. I have been in dealership where I am the only customer, same speed. In fact, it is worst getting there late. Now, you are guarantee to waste another hour or so driving there and back for a return trip to get your inspection or plate transfer done as everyone in the shop is gone and DMV is now closed. 


 

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tszyeung said:   
 I also absolutely believe if I were in a BMW dealership , the experience would be vastly different. 


 

  BMW margins are higher than econombox

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byteless said:   
griffeycom said:   Going to be purchasing a new CRV soon. I want to use Honda financing because they're offering $500 towards downpayment and 0.9% for qualified buyers (FICO is near 800). How do I negotiate my price without them including the $500 in my OTD price?
  I am also looking to buy CRV soon.
keep in touch and lets share what is the best price you were quoted.
I am waiting until honda offer some incentives

  $27300 sale price + TTL.  This is AWD EX-L.  I qualify for Recent Grad so $500 off my loan and 0.9% for 60 months.

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How would you guys proceed if your replies your getting, do not even match the true car price? Would you reply and remind them that you have looked up the car on truecar.com? True car says an elantra is about $15.8k, and im getting replies of $16k, $16.3k. One said $15.7k, but then had a $700 dealer fee (required by law is only $300).

Also, why do some dealers in their breakdown give lower prices for tax, title, tags? Shouldn't this all be the same? HOw can i find out exactly how much this costs a dealer?

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griffeycom said:     $27300 sale price + TTL.  This is AWD EX-L.  I qualify for Recent Grad so $500 off my loan and 0.9% for 60 months.
  To be sure, the 27.3k is after the $500 recent grad discount and the $500 financing discount, correct. That is a great price for a EX-L. Can you share what location this dealer is in (as much as you are comfortable: city, state, region).

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vansville said:   How would you guys proceed if your replies your getting, do not even match the true car price? Would you reply and remind them that you have looked up the car on truecar.com? True car says an elantra is about $15.8k, and im getting replies of $16k, $16.3k. One said $15.7k, but then had a $700 dealer fee (required by law is only $300).

Also, why do some dealers in their breakdown give lower prices for tax, title, tags? Shouldn't this all be the same? HOw can i find out exactly how much this costs a dealer?

  Go back to the ones with high quotes, tell them you are redy to buy on x date -- and tell them they must beat the TrueCar price of x to get your business.

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tszyeung said:   
dcwilbur said:   
Chyvan said:   
From past experience, I determined that no matter when you show up, that you won't be driving home until the dealer closes. I then tried the show-up-at-closing-time method. The people just stayed late. I've concluded that you can't drive off in a car in less than 3 hours. That last time I had no trade-in, had cash, and a cert for an employee discount and didn't need to dicker on price. Didn't make a difference.  


Wow - There's no way I would stand for this.  You all are forgetting who's the customer.

Up in Boston, dealership services for Econ box cars are just bad. Sure, you can get up anytime and leave. However, you just reset the clock of the 4-7 hrs process and starting all over again at other equally slow dealership. I also absolutely believe if I were in a BMW dealership , the experience would be vastly different. 

Also, agreed with Chyvan, the timing of your arrival to the dealership is irrelevant. I have been in dealership where I am the only customer, same speed. In fact, it is worst getting there late. Now, you are guarantee to waste another hour or so driving there and back for a return trip to get your inspection or plate transfer done as everyone in the shop is gone and DMV is now closed. 


 

  
Unless it has changed Massachusetts has requirements that some "prep" work has to be done with buyers name.  (like the inspections)  I was told I could NOT buy a vehicle in MA because I was not a resident.  (I was told to go to NH, actually)  They have to issue a MA hard plate to complete the sale.  So I can believe that its a longer process there.

When I bought a car with a credit union pre-approval they sent the sales order to the CU and did not release the car until the CU approval came back to them.  However Pentagon converted to something similar to Capital One's blank check, which IS treated as a live check with a maximum value - the terms are that the vehicle price has to conform to Black Book.

As far as delivery goes other places it depends on if you are buying a car literally "on the lot" -- which tend to be delivery "ready."  If you are buying a higher volume but not highly customized car like a Honda or Nissan then they have a ton of them in a storage lot that are still wrapped from delivery.  If they transfer it back or to another dealer they a) didn't waste time/supplies getting it ready and b) don't have to do any prep for shipping.  

I have always had to schedule new motorcycles, those tend to be crated.  The demo I bought I had to fly in for, so they already had everything ready to go.  

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fwuser12 said:   
griffeycom said:     $27300 sale price + TTL.  This is AWD EX-L.  I qualify for Recent Grad so $500 off my loan and 0.9% for 60 months.
  To be sure, the 27.3k is after the $500 recent grad discount and the $500 financing discount, correct. That is a great price for a EX-L. Can you share what location this dealer is in (as much as you are comfortable: city, state, region).

  No.  The 27.3K was before $500 grad discount.    Dealer was in Indianapolis metro.  Of all the dealers I emailed this was the only one who offered to guarantee my #1 color pick, also was roughly $150 cheaper than the next best and luckily for me ended up being one of the closer ones to me!

Rounded numbers were $27300 + $1900 Tax, $180 "fees".  Just under $29400 OTD before $500 grad incentive. 
 

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Anyone know whats up with true car and its pricing?  A 2017 Elantra.  Baltimore, MD = $15.2k.  Bel Air Md (30 mins away) $15.9k.  Lancaster PA (1 hour away) $16.2.

Big differences.  Will the dealers who are true car dealers actually match this?  So the dealer in bel air is only expected to match $15.9k, but the dealer 30 mins away has to offer it at $15.2k?

And also if anyone knows.  Do you take the true car price, add taxes, add title and tags, and that is the OTD price they should give you?

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Chyvan said:   From past experience, I determined that no matter when you show up, that you won't be driving home until the dealer closes. I then tried the show-up-at-closing-time method. The people just stayed late. I've concluded that you can't drive off in a car in less than 3 hours. That last time I had no trade-in, had cash, and a cert for an employee discount and didn't need to dicker on price. Didn't make a difference.
  I just finished buying a new Mercedes. I pre-negotiated the price online, showed up to buy it. Spent ~30 minutes inspecting/test driving, then about an hour on closing (30 minutes saying no to the finance guy's upsells and signing the paperwork), and drove away. Still took 30 minutes too long, but overall it was OK. 

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stanolshefski said:   
gwillison said:   Thanks for the replies, just to clarify...

1. Is credit union financing considered cash? Is financing through the dealer considered cash too? Im confused as to what they consider cash and what is not cash. When a credit union gives me a loan, do they provide a check, and immedaitley the dealer cashes it and gets the cash?

2. So do I go in and say "I already have financing, I only want to talk price".....or, not even mention that I have been pre-approved and just talk price.

3. I plan on buying the last day of the month, to get the best deal. Im sure they will want me to buy the car that day if they truly are willing to drop the price to meet budget. If I tell them "I will bring you the check tomorrow" doesn't that mess up the deal? I had planned on going to the dealer early, getting the best deal (or going to different dealers), then driving to the credit union to get the actual check. THat way I can make the whole thing happen on the last day of the month, where you are supposed to get the best deal.

Thanks for all the help, glad I found this thread.

FYI, its a 2017 Elantra I plan on getting. Truecar.com says I can get one for $15,900, im hoping I can get it for closer to $15,300 on the last day of the month, realistic that I can get that far below true car?

  Don't talk about how you're going to pay for it until you have a bottom-line price. If they tell you that there's an option for a rebate that requires financing, tell them "we can talk about that when we agree to a price."

Each leg of the transaction should be separate, new vehicle price, old vehicle price and financing (if applicable).

 
Dealers make money in 3 ways: 1) The car purchase itself, 2) Your trade-in, 3) Financing. They can pull levers on all three and maximize their profits. So generally, you can get a lower price if you finance the vehicle. Depending on the financing terms, you can turnaround and pay it off immediately. So you can either say you're doing a cash price and then see what additional incentives you can get for financing. OR you can suggest you're financing in the negotiations to get the lowest price and then say you're paying cash. Depends on the situation.

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gwillison said:   YOu said capital one provides a blank check.  I called two local credit unions (I have heard a CU will give you the best rate), and they said they do not do this.  THey said the check must be made out to a specific dealer.  Does this kill my leverage of having my own financing, or would you simply just recommend getting loan terms, driving to the dealer with that info, agreeing, then going to the credit union to get the physical check made out to that dealer?

I want to walk into a dealer with my own financing, but it appears that the credit unions will not give a blank check, they want a dealers name on it.  I guess its not an issue, but it ads the extra step.  I will have to agree with the dealer, then leave the dealer, go get the actual check, and then return to the dealer.  WIll they still give be the best price this way.  I noticed you said you can come in with a capital one blank check which sounds ideal, and it seems they may give you a better price than what I described.

Any more suggestions on having my "own financing" and having the most leverage when going into a dealer? Are credit union checks considered CASH deals?  Do credit union loans differ than the financing the dealer will give you, in how low they go on price?

Thank you

  
FWIW, Penfed offers a "blank check" preapproved car loan.  They call it a "loan draft check" and the terms are good for 90 days from the issue date.  After a 10 minute phone call with a CSR I got one when I bought a car last month.  They'll mail it free or overnight it for $15.

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I will throw in my 2 cents too. On new cars, I pay for a print out from consumers reports. This show me the bottom line price for the vehicle including the dealer incentives. This show s me absolutely what the dealers cost is. Then I start on the phone. I call car dealerships though out the state to find the best deal. I do not worry about how far they are. I let them know what their cost is and that I am calling for the best deal. I let them know, that it will be a quick sale with no issues. I also tell them that even though they will not make much on me, it will add a quick car to their monthly numbers. Many will tell me they do not work this way. I will get a few that will. I ask for the quote including all fees etc. be sent to me. Then I take the best of these and start approaching closer car dealerships for me in the Fresno, Stockton, Modesto, Visalia and Merced areas. I see how close they can get to the price. Some will get very close. Then I factor in the drive time v. the savings and choose the priority of car dealerships to see first. Sometimes dealerships are looking that 1 extra car for the month. I also use the large national websites too. I learned this technique from working with 100s of local car dealership. I use a local site that focuses on used cars Fresno Used Cars Fresno.

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mkelleyranger said:   I will throw in my 2 cents too. On new cars, I pay for a print out from consumers reports. This show me the bottom line price for the vehicle including the dealer incentives. This show s me absolutely what the dealers cost is. Then I start on the phone. I call car dealerships though out the state to find the best deal. I do not worry about how far they are. I let them know what their cost is and that I am calling for the best deal. I let them know, that it will be a quick sale with no issues. I also tell them that even though they will not make much on me, it will add a quick car to their monthly numbers. Many will tell me they do not work this way. I will get a few that will. I ask for the quote including all fees etc. be sent to me. Then I take the best of these and start approaching closer car dealerships for me in the Fresno, Stockton, Modesto, Visalia and Merced areas. I see how close they can get to the price. Some will get very close. Then I factor in the drive time v. the savings and choose the priority of car dealerships to see first. Sometimes dealerships are looking that 1 extra car for the month. I also use the large national websites too. I learned this technique from working with 100s of local car dealership. I use a local site that focuses on used cars Fresno Used Cars Fresno
   You are not getting "absolutely what the dealer cost is" from Consumer Reports. This "cost" used to be dealer invoice. Over the past 15 years invoice has crept upwards. Invoice used to be 15% below MSRP but now it is about 7% under that. Beyond invoice, most dealers get holdback (~3%) back from the factory. They also get volume kickbacks based on their monthly quarterly sales. That is why you can them to give you a better deal when they need "that 1 extra car for the month". Every dealer gets different kickbacks depending upon their numbers sold. There is generally a specific Target like 200 cars for the month. The higher volume dealers will get a larger kickback so you stand a better chance of lower price from some of them. Sometimes the volume of sales is tied to overall numbers and sometimes a specific model. It would be impossible for CR or any other outside entity to know "absolutely what dealer cost is" on any specific car/make/model. They can tell you MSRP, invoice, holdback, and current incentives but that's all. A highly proficient  negotiator can get several thousand dollars below that price. It may take more time and effort than the average person wants to devote however. I'm retired so my time is free! YMMV

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junkmail9572 said:   They can tell you MSRP, invoice, holdback, and current incentives but that's all. A highly proficient  negotiator can get several thousand dollars below that price. It may take more time and effort than the average person wants to devote however. I'm retired so my time is free! YMMV
 

  


That is going to depend strongly on the specific category of vehicle you're talking about.

"Several thousand dollars" of extra negotiation room on a relatively expensive vehicle like a minivan or a full size truck?  Absolutely.

"Several thousand dollars" of negotiation room on a sub-compact?  Not unless they are desperate to be rid of it.
You're squeezing blood from a stone on that end of the market.

rated:
arch8ngel said:   
junkmail9572 said:   They can tell you MSRP, invoice, holdback, and current incentives but that's all. A highly proficient  negotiator can get several thousand dollars below that price. It may take more time and effort than the average person wants to devote however. I'm retired so my time is free! YMMV
  


That is going to depend strongly on the specific category of vehicle you're talking about.

"Several thousand dollars" of extra negotiation room on a relatively expensive vehicle like a minivan or a full size truck?  Absolutely.

"Several thousand dollars" of negotiation room on a sub-compact?  Not unless they are desperate to be rid of it.
You're squeezing blood from a stone on that end of the market.

   Yes you are entirely right, instead of several thousand dollars I should have said "double invoice minus holdback savings" or maybe "20% off MSRP". I stand corrected-

rated:
mkelleyranger said:   I will throw in my 2 cents too. On new cars, I pay for a print out from consumers reports. This show me the bottom line price for the vehicle including the dealer incentives. This show s me absolutely what the dealers cost is. Then I start on the phone. I call car dealerships though out the state to find the best deal. I do not worry about how far they are. I let them know what their cost is and that I am calling for the best deal. I let them know, that it will be a quick sale with no issues. I also tell them that even though they will not make much on me, it will add a quick car to their monthly numbers. Many will tell me they do not work this way. I will get a few that will. I ask for the quote including all fees etc. be sent to me. Then I take the best of these and start approaching closer car dealerships for me in the Fresno, Stockton, Modesto, Visalia and Merced areas. I see how close they can get to the price. Some will get very close. Then I factor in the drive time v. the savings and choose the priority of car dealerships to see first. Sometimes dealerships are looking that 1 extra car for the month. I also use the large national websites too. I learned this technique from working with 100s of local car dealership. I use a local site that focuses on used cars Fresno Used Cars Fresno
so how much did you end up saving over MSRP? and how long did it take you to find/get this deal?

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