Legit unclaimed property that doesn't appear in state sites?

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I received a letter from 'Legal Claimant Services', a division of Keane claiming that my recently-deceased father has some assets in a Georgia bank. Of course, for a fee, they would help me recover the assets. Immediately, I performed an unclaimed property search in Georgia; the search yielded no results. Since I didn't see any unclaimed property in Georgia, I disregarded the letter.

My brother received the same letter and decided to look into it. He told me that both his attorney and accountant both think its legitimate. He then contacted Legal Claimant Services and found out that my father does in fact have some money in a Georgia account and they would help us recover it. For a whopping thirty percent!

He wants to go forward with their offer because it's 'found money'.

From what I understand, a third-party is never necessary to collect unclaimed property.

How legitimate is this? I assumed companies like 'Legal Claimant Services' simply screen-scrape the state-run unclaimed property sites and then mass-mail people, trying to capitalize off off people who don't realize that legitimate unclaimed property can be claimed at no cost.

Since this doesn't seem to be the case, how does this company know that I potentially have unclaimed assets to claim? Are there other(read: less expensive) means of retrieving these assets?

Update: I called the Georgia Department of Revenue to ask the same; they had no record that match either my Father's name nor his SSN.

Update2: My father did live in Georgia for a few years.

Update3: I called Legal Claimant Services and they sounded every bit as shady as I imagined. They said the money is in a 'stock account' and it's not registered with any State. I suppose I could find out what companies my father dealt with. Not sure how I would go about this but I'm willing to do some legwork in order to save 30%.

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Normally I wouldn't respond to a troll post like this but reuniting Unclaimed Property is near and dear to me. I was for... (more)

shoman100 (Aug. 21, 2012 @ 11:18a) |

Just found ~$10k that my grandma had in some Prudential stuff...she's still alive so :/

She's happy, but I'm sure it's ju... (more)

Al3xK (Aug. 21, 2012 @ 11:42a) |

Interesting.

So, I wonder how much value the OP would put on the time spent to research and go through the process of cla... (more)

niac7 (Oct. 03, 2012 @ 8:19p) |

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How much are we talking about? $100?, $10k? $10M?

according to this company, $4500. I dont want to give up a third of that if I can figure out where the account was held and recover it ourselves.

Can you call local banks in the area where your dad lived?

Perhaps you can go through your father's paperwork to find anything that would indicate what bank(s) he may have used while living in GA.

neilkod said:   I received a letter from 'Legal Claimant Services', a division of Keane claiming that my recently-deceased father has some assets in a Georgia bank. Of course, for a fee, they would help me recover the assets. Immediately, I performed an unclaimed property search in Georgia; the search yielded no results. Since I didn't see any unclaimed property in Georgia, I disregarded the letter.

My brother received the same letter and decided to look into it. He told me that both his attorney and accountant both think its legitimate. He then contacted Legal Claimant Services and found out that my father does in fact have some money in a Georgia account and they would help us recover it. For a whopping thirty percent!

He wants to go forward with their offer because it's 'found money'.

From what I understand, a third-party is never necessary to collect unclaimed property.

How legitimate is this? I assumed companies like 'Legal Claimant Services' simply screen-scrape the state-run unclaimed property sites and then mass-mail people, trying to capitalize off off people who don't realize that legitimate unclaimed property can be claimed at no cost.

Since this doesn't seem to be the case, how does this company know that I potentially have unclaimed assets to claim? Are there other(read: less expensive) means of retrieving these assets?

Update: I called the Georgia Department of Revenue to ask the same; they had no record that match either my Father's name nor his SSN.

Update2: My father did live in Georgia for a few years.

Update3: I called Legal Claimant Services and they sounded every bit as shady as I imagined. They said the money is in a 'stock account' and it's not registered with any State. I suppose I could find out what companies my father dealt with. Not sure how I would go about this but I'm willing to do some legwork in order to save 30%.


Just thinking out loud,

How long ago did your Father pass away?

Eventually, all abandoned property has to be escheated over to the state. Wait long enough, and it's legally required to end up there. Perhaps the company has the ability to get access to lists of dormant accounts that haven't been escheated yet.

I have some exp. with most of the facets/processes/etc regarding Unclaimed Property.

Here's what I think is happening.

Finders are limited to 10% of the amount if it's "post escheat" property. That 10% might only be applicable in the state I work for. My guess is this is known as "pre escheat" money. Funds not yet sent to any governmental agency but will be soon as the company has lost contact with the owner and is beginning the escheatment process.

Check other states your father lived in. It may not necessarily end up with Georgia. Georgia might not list pre escheat data on their website. Call Georgia's unclaimed property tell them what you got
and see if they can search for it.

If it is pre escheat, it'll end up with a state agency as previously noted. Some states are more aggressive in trying to reunite lost property than others. So you do have the option to wait for this. You'll probably get more letters offering to return the funds and probably at a lessor percentage.

Also, that fee is negotiable. You could contact them and tell them you got several letters from different companies. You are contacting them all and will go with the best offer. They'll probably accept 10%.

Try this place for searching multiple states.

http://www.missingmoney.com/

My state is not included. if you want me to check pm me to discuss further.

Good luck and DON'T! pay that 30% fee. it's way too much 10% is the norm.

gatzdon said:   

How long ago did your Father pass away?

Eventually, all abandoned property has to be escheated over to the state. Wait long enough, and it's legally required to end up there. Perhaps the company has the ability to get access to lists of dormant accounts that haven't been escheated yet.


This is what gets me. He passed away three years ago. I want to know how this company has the info if my father doesn't appear in any of the state-run unclaimed property databases. I don't know how long it takes for this info to be released.

is it possible that this company can get information prior it to becoming publicly available?

Now that I think of it, what exactly is the process of this type of account/info becoming a matter of public record. According to this scammy company, My father had some type of securities account. I'm assuming there were no beneficiaries or otherwise added to the account.

So how does this work.

1. Dad supposedly had a brokerage account.
2. Dad is now deceased.

Should I expect this account to eventually be public record as unclaimed?
Does the bank have any obligation to notify my father's estate?

How can this company know about the account yet I can't find it on any government-run unclaimed property sites?

Ok here's where it gets kind of fuzzy.

"I want to know how this company has the info if my father doesn't appear in any of the state-run unclaimed property databases." Hard to say for sure. Dad's name could be misspelled so your search is not finding it. Could be pre escheat property that Georgia doesn't know/list. "is it possible that this company can get information prior it to becoming publicly available?" yes this is possible. The actual property could still be with the holder and this company could have bought/obtained the information from them.

Some other concerns. There are different types of unclaimed property. Estate property is handled differently and you typically a state won't list it or go look for you (this may not be accurate in all cases). State may keep that money once they get it and you don't claim it after a certain time. So there is some risk if you don't do anything and wait for the property to escheat to the state.


"exactly is the process of this type of account/info becoming a matter of public record". Basically...
Company loses contact with owner.
Sends property to state in a yearly report.
State takes possession. Attempts to reunite it to you.
This is very general and does not necessarily apply to each and every type of property.

Does the bank have any obligation to notify my father's estate?
They probably tried to contact your dad at the last known address he left with them.

Best thing you can do is start researching as much as you can, do as much homework as possible. Dig through old papers if you still have them. Contact the companies he used for those securities. Talk to his close relatives, tell them your story, maybe they'll remember who he had holding his securities. Hopefully other folks can chime in here with more things you can do.

If you got this letter from Keane, chances are the property has not yet been submitted to the state as unclaimed. Read the letter carefully. I just received a similar letter for stocks my mother-in-law bought put in trust for my wife years ago. The letter says that if we don't resolve it with Keane, the stock will go into unclaimed funds to the state.

You might find some useful information in this thread, where someone else in a similar predicament took them up on their offer and later explained where the money was "hiding":
http://forum.freeadvice.com/wills-trusts-estate-planning-113/dec...

Keane might have 'bought', from a financial institution source, a list of accounts about to age out.

LegalLurker said:   You might find some useful information in this thread, where someone else in a similar predicament took them up on their offer and later explained where the money was "hiding":
http://forum.freeadvice.com/wills-trusts-estate-planning-113/dec...


This was a great read. I started calling around banks that I suspected my father to do business with. Turns out he had an account with Wells Fargo Advisors. While the rep from WF was unable to tell me if this was 'the' account, he initiated a process with their Estate Processing team. They need me to confirm my identity so that we can discuss the account and plan for its recovery.

I wish that WF would have been able to give me some hints about the balance so that I could tell if this is the account that Legal Claimant Services is referring to, or if there are more - But I understand their position-they have a team that I need to deal with in order to get this moving forward.

The freeadvice.com thread is a little scary in the fact that after 11 years, the information never turned up on any state sites.

I say you negotiate them down to 20% and then sign the asset recovery agreement.

This will turn into a years-long obsession that is not worth it for the amount of money involved.

Of course if the amount of money was significant enough... you could sue the company and force them to disclose the particulars in discovery. Don't try this at home, you'll shoot your eye out. IANYL

Crazytree said:   I say you negotiate them down to 20% and then sign the asset recovery agreement.

This will turn into a years-long obsession that is not worth it for the amount of money involved.

Of course if the amount of money was significant enough... you could sue the company and force them to disclose the particulars in discovery. Don't try this at home, you'll shoot your eye out. IANYL


Hell-to-the-no. So far I'm enjoying this process. I'm learning a ton. With about an hour of phone-calling, I have found at least two of my fathers' accounts that have no beneficiary listed. I also discovered a few unclaimed accounts in my name.

neilkod said:   Crazytree said:   I say you negotiate them down to 20% and then sign the asset recovery agreement.

This will turn into a years-long obsession that is not worth it for the amount of money involved.

Of course if the amount of money was significant enough... you could sue the company and force them to disclose the particulars in discovery. Don't try this at home, you'll shoot your eye out. IANYL


Hell-to-the-no. So far I'm enjoying this process. I'm learning a ton. With about an hour of phone-calling, I have found at least two of my fathers' accounts that have no beneficiary listed. I also discovered a few unclaimed accounts in my name.


"Hell-to-the-no."? Please don't do that.

I looked up my name in missingmoney.com and saw that I have outstanding balance of $10.00 from Best Buy. Since I hate Best Buy, I thought I will claim it. I know Best Buy has already paid it to state, I just hate my name to be associated with Best Buy. So, $10.00 from Best Buy, here I come

There are some federal lists for unclaimed property. I think one if specific for credit unions that are federal chartered. Google it. I'd also look at states where your dad lived or owned propery, went to school or served in the millitary. It may not be in Georgia. For $1500 in finders-fees, I'd just search every one of our 50 states plus DC......

I have situations like this from time to time for fairly sizable claims. Our state statute allowed 'reasonable fees' which was defined as anything up to 50%. I hate these finders so much that I worked to change the law that reduces the maximum fee to 5% and requires me to pay the proceeds to the actual claimant. I've been sued by these companies for not paying the money to them, they have never prevailed. Pretty much solved our problem with these guys.

One claimant called AFTER he signed the finder's agreement. The finder submitted this agreement to me and demanded payment. I put out a few extra 'feelers' and found the guy on our own. He called me up. I told him to come down and I will cut him a check that day. He did and bought the office lunch. Finder went after him and got nothing.

SigX said:   I have situations like this from time to time for fairly sizable claims. Our state statute allowed 'reasonable fees' which was defined as anything up to 50%. I hate these finders so much that I worked to change the law that reduces the maximum fee to 5% and requires me to pay the proceeds to the actual claimant. I've been sued by these companies for not paying the money to them, they have never prevailed. Pretty much solved our problem with these guys.

One claimant called AFTER he signed the finder's agreement. The finder submitted this agreement to me and demanded payment. I put out a few extra 'feelers' and found the guy on our own. He called me up. I told him to come down and I will cut him a check that day. He did and bought the office lunch. Finder went after him and got nothing.


Ditto.

The amount of money "finders" get is truly staggering.

It's a huge industry and they are making money "hand over foot".

1. If you don't know about the money and can't find it, 50% is fair. 50% of nothing is nothing...duh...so 30% IS fair.
You will most likely get full disclosure when you sign probably.

2. The government holds over 1 trillion dollars in unclaimed assets. There are oil companies that hold billions in unclaimed royalties, life insurance companies, unclaimed child support, unclaimed bonds, unclaimed just about anything.

3. This company that wants to pay you money and and you're mad? Why, because they make money too? Please get a clue.

It must be a market similar to MLM, because they got shills that respond within the same day.

Woohoo!

I found a McAffee rebate that was sent to an old mailing address of mine!

What shall I buy with my new found wealth?

Whoa!!!! Found a medical billing refund for the wife! Says it's >$50!

I am thinking Vegas vacation here...

Green!

I did this a while back (I annually check the sites). This year, I checked a couple co-workers names. Found money for 5 or 6 of them, let them know.

1 search was for significant amount... that person took me to lunch. I didn't charge any them for helping them find $$$. I thought about it, but then figured it best to keep business separate from work... or else they will start hounding me to buy GS cookies and gift wrap!

BitemeIamtoxic said:   Keane might have 'bought', from a financial institution source, a list of accounts about to age out.

Yep. Keane is famous for this. If you sign up with them, they'll take a percentage, the bank gets a percentage, and you get the rest. The bank can't legally charge a fee to give your money, and by law once it escheats Keane can only get a fixed finders' fee per account. So it's in the bank's best interest to not look for you too hard and it's in Keane's interest to hard-sell before the accounts age out. It's shady but there's not much consumers can do. Banks have permission to sell this info in the account agreements.

If this comes up again, the consumer should check banks or accountholders they think may have the property; if they come up empty check public abandoned property listings every few months until it turns up.

'Found' $3500 for buddy's ex-wife listed on NAUPA. Best find ever, she moved away.

I found one for my boss. It turned out to be for some court fees from the 80s. He got a ticket for a curfew violation at a scenic overlook when he was in college. He forgot all about it - apparently his ticket got tossed but he never got his court costs refunded.

Keane was actually hired by the bank or brokerage house. Not going to try to tackle escheatment and SEC regs here, but you fathers account most likely had returned statements sent back to the company that held his position. After so many (usually 3) statements come back SEC regs require they try to find your Dad. The company will try to use some public database information, but if they don’t get a new address they may hire Keene to track him down. There are many ethical/moral opinions on how this process should work, so I will skip that topic also. Keane is a very legit company. One recommendation would be to negotiate and try to identify the bank that held the asset. Keene may be required, by its agreement with the bank, to provide you with the account information for free if you identify who holds the account. I said “may be” because each agreement is different.

FattestGuy said:   Keene may be required, by its agreement with the bank, to provide you with the account information for free if you identify who holds the account. I said “may be” because each agreement is different.

I called Keane; they weren't willing to disclose the name of the institution. How can I find out if they are required to provide account information? I can't imagine they'd be willing to provide account information at all given that their 'play' is that they know who the account is with and I don't.

I might have found the account on my own but I'm not sure if it's the account that keane is referring to - it may be another. I'll keep the thread updated.

neilkod said:   FattestGuy said:   Keene may be required, by its agreement with the bank, to provide you with the account information for free if you identify who holds the account. I said “may be” because each agreement is different.

I called Keane; they weren't willing to disclose the name of the institution. How can I find out if they are required to provide account information? I can't imagine they'd be willing to provide account information at all given that their 'play' is that they know who the account is with and I don't.

I might have found the account on my own but I'm not sure if it's the account that keane is referring to - it may be another. I'll keep the thread updated.
Have fun obsessing over this for the next eight years.

neilkod said:   FattestGuy said:   Keene may be required, by its agreement with the bank, to provide you with the account information for free if you identify who holds the account. I said “may be” because each agreement is different.

I called Keane; they weren't willing to disclose the name of the institution. How can I find out if they are required to provide account information? I can't imagine they'd be willing to provide account information at all given that their 'play' is that they know who the account is with and I don't.

I might have found the account on my own but I'm not sure if it's the account that keane is referring to - it may be another. I'll keep the thread updated.


I'd get the money from the account refunded on your own and then wait a few months and see if the sharks still have anything to collect. If you did indeed find it, then 30% of nothing is nothing......

neilkod said:   FattestGuy said:   I might have found the account on my own but I'm not sure if it's the account that keane is referring to - it may be another. I'll keep the thread updated.

Turns out the account that i discovered is the account in question. Wells Fargo has an estate processing department and they were super-helpful. I don't think I spent more than a half-hour on the telephone with them over the course of a few days.

They required a copy of the death certificate and a Letter of Testamentary so that they could speak with me about the account. After I provided such, they were able to provide details on the account - what WF told me matched the details that Keane was able to release - The balance and the location where the account was opened(GA).

I'm now in the process of having the money transferred from my father's account into one that I'm about to open. By doing a little bit of legwork, I was able to save about $1300 in the process.

good work op. After you have the money, call Keane and enroll their services immediately! Should be good for a chuckle.

Glad it worked out for you OP!
A great example of not going with the easy way, but putting forth some effort, and reaping the benefits!

mwa423 said:   good work op. After you have the money, call Keane and enroll their services immediately! Should be good for a chuckle.

Actually a good idea.

Step 1:
Find and claim all that you can.

Step 2:
Retain Keane to claim whatever you didn't find. (probably nothing)

SigX said:   I have situations like this from time to time for fairly sizable claims. Our state statute allowed 'reasonable fees' which was defined as anything up to 50%. I hate these finders so much that I worked to change the law that reduces the maximum fee to 5% and requires me to pay the proceeds to the actual claimant. I've been sued by these companies for not paying the money to them, they have never prevailed. Pretty much solved our problem with these guys.

One claimant called AFTER he signed the finder's agreement. The finder submitted this agreement to me and demanded payment. I put out a few extra 'feelers' and found the guy on our own. He called me up. I told him to come down and I will cut him a check that day. He did and bought the office lunch. Finder went after him and got nothing.

--------------
You must work for WA state (the ONLY state with 5% cap on finders fees). The state DOES NOT care for its citizens, if it did would view finders as partners in finding beneficiaries of unclaimed funds (as ALL states have VERY limited staff, and ZERO motivation to search for account owners).You are discouraging legitimate firms to reunite unclaimed funds with their owners. And the ONLY reason you (and your kind) hate these finders is because they come between you (the state) and the rightful owners. The less finders knocking at your treasury door, the more money left with the state to keep forever or to generate extended interest. Why did you wait for the finder to submit the claim/agreement, and then you put "extra feelers" to find the guy on your own. Where is the morality of your actions. Why would you adversely interfere into a legit and mutual agreement between two parties. If you (and your kind) were doing your job correctly, there would not be ONE TRILLION dollars floating around in government coffers.

There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars which get "absorbed" into government's general funds EVERY DAY (and I am not talking about money held in state's treasuries), because rightful beneficiaries have no clue of their existence, and because every day a deadline to claim these funds passes.

How many people experience hardship, how many people would live a better life, how many people could afford much needed medication, and how many people died because they could not afford life saving treatments, all the while having thousands of dollars in unclaimed funds sitting somewhere. And you dare to say that you hate "finders" ,the only and very people who are actually motivated to reunite the beneficiaries with their money? And you try to discourage the finders from doing business in your state? Your REAL reasons are obvious.

For the guy who started this thread:

A finder firm works pretty much like an attorneys firm. Attorneys are allowed to charge a seemingly high fee for their services and knowledge. They invest alot of resources, and some,their own money into every case. Since many of the cases (and the mentioned investments) are profitable, their real profit of doing business is actually lower than what they ask , and what you would think.

Finders spend alot of resources to close a deal. They audit millions of records, search thousands of databases,make untold number of trips to court houses and government agencies, pay for information materials and lists, pay the PI's, sometimes the attorneys,and genealogists, and travel extensively. All this to find the missing money, to find the beneficiary and to hope to close a deal for his efforts and recoup or make a profit on this investment of time, money, knowledge, and head aches caused by the people (like the one I am replying to here)who have different agendas and intentions, and who interfere with perfectly legal agreements.

In regard to your father funds, GOOD LUCK. I just hope they are not funds which have a claim deadline somewhere, because you will loose them forever. And NO, not all funds end up in state's treasury sometimes in the future. Actually there are unclaimed money which have a window of ONLY 45 DAYS to be claimed (after they are publicly disclosed), after that you can forget about it.

Finders will not go away, I am one of them. I just don't go after accounts smaller than 10 thousand. In just ONE state there are 10,000 accounts which are over 10,000 dollars. I am surprised someone came after you with 4,500, you're just lucky, however, sometimes if you snooze....you loose.

Normally I wouldn't respond to a troll post like this but reuniting Unclaimed Property is near and dear to me. I was fortunate to have a large sum reunited to me in a time of fiscal need. I am forever grateful and now work with Unclaimed Property but don't profit directly from it like you.

Your post would have carried more weight if you didn't twist/omit the truth to make it seem like you and your clients are victims of some government conspiracy.

"as ALL states have VERY limited staff, and ZERO motivation "

California has a large staff, sends millions of letters each year both before and after the property is sent to the state, notices are published in newspapers, media events occur several times a year. California is averaging about $250 million paid back each year for the last few years. And that's not counting securities nor what was sent back by the Holder as a result of notification by the state.

"You are discouraging legitimate firms to reunite unclaimed funds with their owners. And the ONLY reason you (and your kind) hate these finders is because they come between you (the state) and the rightful owners."

Horsepuckey. The only thing he wants to do is to prevent people like you from charging high fees on unsuspecting victims. There's several finders out there that have made 100's of millions of dollars on unclaimed property. You one of them? Even if you are not one of them 5-10% isn't enough for you? How much is?

"Finders spend alot of resources to close a deal. They audit millions of records, search thousands of databases,make untold number of trips to court houses and government agencies, pay for information materials and lists, pay the PI's, sometimes the attorneys,and genealogists, and travel extensively. "

Horsepuckey pt 2. The majority of claims are satisfied by public records or private records that the claimant has to provide. "Thousands of databases". really?

I notice you don't even mention how folks can claim the money all on their own or how to go about finding it. It's interesting how you attack Sigx's motives. YOUR motives seem clear to me. You seem pissed because someone is making it difficult for you to profit on the misfortunes of others. Are those big finder companies making life difficult for you? Is there a place for finders, sure, some people just aren't good about things and they'll never even bother to look for Unclaimed Property. I just don't think there is a place for greedy finders.

You are correct on the low staffing in some states, some states indeed make a minimal effort. It's the people that drive the changes to Unclaimed Property. If you gave a rats ass you'd get on the case of your state's legislature to make improvements to the handling of their unclaimed property, much like what happened in California. California's handling of Unclaimed Property was not ideal in the past. As a result of lawsuits and changes sponsored and implemented by the Controller John Chiang, the program has made a complete turnaround. John Chiang made it his personal mission to improve the Unclaimed Property process and has succeeded. California leads the nation in Unclaimed Property, in both reporting, attempting to notify people and reimbursement of lost property.

BTW welcome to Fatwallet.

Here's some interesting reading on Unclaimed Property in California.

http://www.sco.ca.gov/Files-EO/UPD_properties_returned_March_201...

http://www.sco.ca.gov/Files-EO/UPD_cash_returned_March_2012.pdf

http://www.sco.ca.gov/Files-EO/UPD_securities_returned_March_201...

http://www.sco.ca.gov/Files-EO/UPD_notices_mailed_March_2012.pdf

Just found ~$10k that my grandma had in some Prudential stuff...she's still alive so :/

She's happy, but I'm sure it's just a drop in the bucket for her retirement.

Skipping 1 Messages...
Interesting.

So, I wonder how much value the OP would put on the time spent to research and go through the process of claiming these funds.

The same effort could have been made on his behalf. Time is more valuable than money for most.

The time the OP spent searching and going through the process could have been used for other profitable purposes that may have been more valuable than the $1300 saved.

Just a thought.

Glad you were able to find it.

I agree that the guys that are trying to sell you on funds you can easily obtain could seem a little shady. At the same time, if you didn't know you didn't know.

To their credit, if they had never contacted the OP in the first place, you would have never even thought to go looking for the money and thus would've never had it.

That's got to be worth something, I'd presume. Hell, I tip 20% of my tab at restaurants for good service. Why the heck would I mind 'tipping' someone that clued me in on a $4500 find that I would've never even known existed.

I guess I'm different though.

By the way, there are lots of private databases that have unclaimed money and they are very hard to get a hold of. Much harder than your situation.

If a firm specializes in finding these, it is well worth the money. I had money owed to me from a foreclosure in my county. It took me forever to get it and it was mine! I would've gladly paid a % to have someone do the process for me.

Once again, happy you found the money.

My advice is that everyone simply keep an open mind about so-called 'finders'.

If they never contact you, you might not know about money waiting for you.


"Hey, I found some money for you! Can I get a finder's fee?"

"No, you scam artist! Where's my money?!?!"



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