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Based on an idea in a different thread and then the original was taken down by just cutting it to close to FWF's anti-solicitation rules. So the Mods liked the idea and suggested we modify it from the realtors themselves posting to the buyers posting and allowing the realtors to PM them.


I think the FWF community and the realtors that frequent this site would mutually benefit by having a thread dedicated to finding realtors that are willing to offer substantial commission rebates for essentially *do it yourself* real estate buyers.

Basically, from what I can gather trying to capture value as a buyer without a realtor is a bit of a mess for the following reasons:
1) I don't trust the typical Joe Blow seller out there to really financially understand the difference of an offer without a buyers agent(3% less commission) vs. an offer with a buyers agent. Odds are most are just going to accept or reject the same offer with or without a buyers agent commission. So from a behavioral standpoint you likely aren't going to receive any financial benefit without going with a buyers agent. This in essence means that defacto the seller is always paying the commission(even though it shouldn't be that way).
2) To add insult to injury it's quite likely that if you submit an offer that has no buyers agent commission attached to it(thereby preventing the sellers agent from being able to take both sides of the transaction for 6%) the seller's agent may try to scuttle your offer with the seller and there are just enough people who aren't financially bright to potentially fall for that.
3) That leaves basically submitting an offer that assumes 6% commission and then trying to bypass the sellers agent to talk to the sellers themselves to get the buy side removed and split the difference(cut the price afterward by 1.5%). That sounds like a hassle that isn't close to worth it.

Therefore, it seems like the easiest way to generate savings on the buy side is to go with a buy side agent that rebates back most of the commission. A commission rebate is legal in 40 states and non taxable(although there are apparently some regulations on it in numerous states, but that can be looked at for each FWF member when they're in that situation).


Below anybody that is looking at buying a house can post that they are looking for a rebating realtor in a particular state to pass through most of the commission while they the buyers do primarily all of the work.

The stipulations are:
1) The buyer does his/her own research on the homes themselves. By responding to a post below a realtor can assume he/she doesn't have to spend any of their time finding places to look at.
2) The buyer schedules their own viewings(call the listing agent and/or reverse lookup the sellers number) and the realtor doesn't have to shoot any emails or calls to book showings
3) The buyer tours homes themselves and doesn't require the realtor to cart them around to any showings
4) The buyer arrives at offer prices themselves and doesn't require any input from the buyers agent
5) The buyer submits offers himself(with the buyers agent attached) and doesn't require the buyers agent to get involved.
6) The buyers agent handles the least amount of the closing process they have to and hoists the rest of the work onto the buyer.
7) The assumption is that you'll only require an hour or 2 of the time of the buyers agent so a significant rebate offered by a realtor is justified because they don't have to do much to collect a sliver and pass the rest on to you.

If anything above isn't possible without the buyers agent doing something, I'll edit it.

Also, if any of the above is desired by the buyer they can negotiate it as an add on and have a slightly lower rebate. But specific realtors responding to posts below assumes that work on their part is kept to an absolute minimum in mentioning how much they will rebate.


Realtors this could be a very good source of additional revenue for basically little to no work. This includes both full time realtors and those that do it just part time or got their realtors license just for the hell of it. Method of communication to line up an arrangement is FWF private messaging(so prospective buyers don't have to post their personal information on the thread).

So anybody looking to buy feel free to post below to see if you can get any PMs from realtors who will give significant rebates for you doing almost all of the work.

Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
Need a rebating realtor for intended home purchase on the West side of the Big Island in Hawaii.

lp244 (Jul. 13, 2016 @ 2:00p) |

Will pm shortly

calbear629 (Jul. 13, 2016 @ 2:05p) |

My name is Christy Redmer, Realtor with We Give Realty located in Jacksonville - St. Augustine, FL. My husband Matt is ... (more)

CSwip (Aug. 20, 2016 @ 12:35p) |

States where rebates are legal: http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/real_estate/rebates-details.html

Currently illegal in: OR, AK, KS, OK, IA (only if more than 1 broker in transaction), MO, LA, MS, TN, AL


FWF mods has made their decision on allowing realtors to post their terms. Allowing realtors to post in a way that could be read as promoting themselves is not fair to their advertisers who pay for ads on this site(makes sense).

Now many of us have mentioned our professions on here before. Obviously you can respond to questions and messages on the thread stating your a realtor in the response(adds to credibility) or that you sent a follow up PM, etc. But a list in the quick summary is as of now a no go and the promotion of you or your rebate on the threads is as of now a no go.

Yeah the line is probably that fine so work with that however you can.
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Just to so the Mods can see where the FWF community stands on whether in this particular instance we would prefer to allow realtors to post themselves which states they're in and what rebate they're willing to give.

Green this post if it's your opinion that FWF should waive it's anti-solicitation rule in just this instance and allow the realtors to post:
1) They're a realtor willing to take PMs on the subject
2) What state they're in
3) What rebate they'll give

If you would prefer that FWF not waive their anti-solicitation rule in this particular instance then red this post.

Obviously they may still choose to allow or not allow what they like, but at least they'll see where many of us stand on the subject matter.


(if they do allow it agents that post will be added to the quick summary as well)

Apparently the issue of "procuring cause of the sale" should be discussed here.

As mentioned in another thread, in theory if you went to see a house using the listing agent and then you decided to buy that house the listing agent could try to claim that they were the cause of your decision to buy and be entitled to full 6% of the commission. That would cut out your buyers agent and the rebate that you would receive from him/her.

Now we have one example on the other thread of someone telling each of the listing agents that they would have a buyers agent when an offer came in and every one of those listings agents let them see the place and had no issue with the listing agent claiming the full commission for themselves.

I've also seen others get shown places by a sellers agent and they didn't bat an eye when the prospective buyer said that they had a buyers agent, but wasn't available to show.

So there probably is more to this subject. I don't know all of the details and as of yet nobody has given much of a good crash on the subject yet either. So this should be at least something that you should think.

I'm also including this example conversation I provided in another thread when calling a listing agent:

dshibb said:   
Phone rings:
-Agent: Hello
-Me: Hi, I'm calling about the place you have listed at 1234 Main Street in [town]
-Agent: Oh yeah, not a bad place still on the market
-Me: Great well I would like to schedule a showing of the place
-Agent: Are you a realtor?
-Me: No just an interested buyer
-Agent: Do you have a buyers agent?
-Me: Yes, but he's busy and I don't want to bother him about it. I'll bring him in if I like it.
-Agent: (doubt they'll say this) I suggest you use your buyers agent and have him schedule a showing for you.
-Me: Oh I'm sorry, maybe I'm doing a bad job of communicating myself here. Let's take a step back. Am I correct in my understanding that you're selling this place?
-Agent: Yes
-Me: Well okay well I'm interested in buying it and I would like to come take look at it and I don't want to bother my buyers agent. How would you suggest I do that?
-Agent: (probably wont say this) Well I don't show places to people who already have a buyers agent(royal lazy a$$hole who isn't doing their job).
-Me: Oh...well okay. I've got the address here so I'll just quick reverse lookup the phone number and have the sellers themselves show me the place since I don't want to take up any more of your time then(code: I will be calling the sellers and informing them that they have a $hitty realtor not doing their job and they'll be doing it instead).
-Agent: (what will happen) Wait...wait...wait. You don't need to do that. I guess I can make an exception and fit you in.
-Agent: (what wont happen) Knock yourself out.

If the latter does happen it takes all of about 30 seconds to get the phone number online and then anybody serious about selling the place will schedule a time for them to show you the place(and then subsequently fire their realtor especially once when I start talking to them while looking at the place).


If reverse lookup of the phone number doesn't work(cell) then you can always drop by and drop off a note or ring the door bell(what do you have to lose).

Research:

Any buyers agent can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here on these details, but this is from what I can gather the usual process by which a buyers agent will try to fit a client into a house.

First they'll try to figure out what the person is after. City(s), price range, beds, baths, etc. They will then usually cross reference that with any places they're a sellers agent for and see if they can show those to you. Reason: Because if you pick one of those they'll get to collect both sides of the commission.

Second, if you're the type that wants to get online results yourself they'll plug you into whatever MLS program they want, input your search criteria, and then you'll get emails sent to you of places that fit that search criteria. You can do this at a lot of the publicly available MLS websites like Redfin(in certain areas), realtor.com, listingbook, etc. The only difference appears to be that some ones are a little slower to update than others. The realtors MLS also has agent notes, how many days on the market, commission amounts, etc. all on their end and you can't get access to that.

Third, if you're not picking places for him to schedule either off emails or off a public listing site then he's probably going to just use a narrow search criteria based on what he thinks you want(you can do the same on the sites listed above). And then he'll get a few dozen results and pick a handful of ones that look good and then take you out to go see them.


Needless to say if I have all of the above right. Then in your own research you can instead:
1) Look up public listing sites
2) Set up an account at many of them and they'll email you the new arrivals each day that fit your own criteria(of which you can set more broad and then look at more homes to scan through)
3) If you like(thanks rufflesinc) call up realtors in your area with no plan on ever actually contracting them as a buyers agent and then ask them to send you daily emails with whatever search criteria. That's easy for them to do. If they inquire about representation just tell them that if they send you something that interests you then you'll probably call them up about representation. Then just never actually follow through.

Where is it written that the commission baseline is 6%? For example, 4% is often the going price in the Boston metro, at least in the last few years.

Calling the sellers may be less likely to be successful in hot markets (e.g. San Francisco/Silicon Valley Peninsula and Northern Virginia). Also reverse look-ups are becoming more difficult now that many people don't have landlines, let alone listed numbers. My mobile carrier doesn't even know my name, and certainly not my address. (prepaid).

I think you need to significant modify the first few posts of this thread

Rebating realtors often need to call the listing agent , make appointment to tour the home with you , pull comps etc

Its not wise to say upfront they won't do all that . In fact many of us get 50-75% rebates from full service realtors so don't limit what they will do for you.

SUCKISSTAPLES said:   I think you need to significant modify the first few posts of this thread

Rebating realtors often need to call the listing agent , make appointment to tour the home with you , pull comps etc

Its not wise to say upfront they won't do all that . In fact many of us get 50-75% rebates from full service realtors so don't limit what they will do for you.


I guess my theory is that if we actually could get this down to an absolute minimum work that competition from realtors will drive this down into the 90% area for not having to do any showings. Why not right? For the time being I mentioned excess over .5% on a different thread, but realistically speaking if there is 3 competing realtors who all don't have to do more than 1 hour of work that percentage potentially will be bid down to .2% and you take the other 2.8%.

From the other thread:

LucJoe said:   Any rebating buyer's agents in IA?


Again from the other thread.

Matr0skin said:   Looking for an agent in CO willing to rebate everything over .5%

Looking for one in NC (Triangle area)...

my state won't allow this.... walks away from thread in disgust.

i am a part-time agent in illinois mainly as an investor. you have to find independent agent not a remax/chain agent. those eat up a lot of the commission already. independent broker/owners can rebate a LOT more

i am a part-time agent in illinois mainly as an investor. you have to find independent agent not a remax/chain agent. those eat up a lot of the commission already. independent broker/owners can rebate a LOT more

Interesting idea. This could provide thousands in savings, and much easier to find a willing agent offering rebates. In general, the rebating agent need not even be physically located in the same location, right? (other than the constraint of within the same state)

umcsom said:   my state won't allow this.

Which state its this?

umcsom said:   my state won't allow this.

Which state its this?

Charlotte, NC

Seems like you'd still need the buyer's agent to show the property - to avoid the sellers agent trying to claim the entire commission. Obviously for this to work, you wouldn't be spending several Saturday's viewing dozens of properties. Find the property online, view it, put in an offer.

BigMoneyGrip said:   Charlotte, NC

Seems like you'd still need the buyer's agent to show the property - to avoid the sellers agent trying to claim the entire commission. Obviously for this to work, you wouldn't be spending several Saturday's viewing dozens of properties. Find the property online, view it, put in an offer.

It also means if you show up to open houses you tell the seller's agent that your agent sent you.

stanolshefski said:   BigMoneyGrip said:   Charlotte, NC

Seems like you'd still need the buyer's agent to show the property - to avoid the sellers agent trying to claim the entire commission. Obviously for this to work, you wouldn't be spending several Saturday's viewing dozens of properties. Find the property online, view it, put in an offer.

It also means if you show up to open houses you tell the seller's agent that your agent sent you.


If you had some business cards from your buyers agent, you could hand one of those over at the open house. Tell the seller's agent that your guy is on a family vacation this week.

Wow, this site just keeps getting worse when it comes to ways to rip off real estate agents. This thread contains deception, lies, call scripts containing manipulation, etc. You should all be very proud of yourself selling your integrity for a few bucks. EDIT: I also find ironic the list of services (not all inclusive btw) that the OP enumerates. Obviously real estate agents earn their commission since they are attaching value to this list.

I think if the buyer paid for the buyer's agent directly on their own, the level of service and satisfaction would be improved. But, if a person has the knowledge/expertise and is better than a Realtor, why would they want to pay for a service that they aren't getting value out of?

In a simple example, if you are familiar with Plumbing, you would likely fix a plumbing problem yourself, instead of contracting it out. On the other hand, if you knew little/nothing about Plumbing, you would hire someone who was more familiar to do it.

The issue with a buyer's agent, is that you're forced to pay someone to do something that you could do yourself.

And, moreover, if the buyer's agent used a more transparent cost structure, such as on a time-materials basis (e.g $XX/hour), or a fixed-rate basis $XXXX, then it would be allow for more better cost control. % of a sale makes no real sense, as that would be like having a plumber charge me based on the value of my home, to perform the same repair in the same location.

Porqin said:   And, moreover, if the buyer's agent used a more transparent cost structure, such as on a time-materials basis (e.g $XX/hour), or a fixed-rate basis $XXXX, then it would be allow for more better cost control. % of a sale makes no real sense, as that would be like having a plumber charge me based on the value of my home, to perform the same repair in the same location.

Don't forget about the perverse conflict of interest that buyer's agents have -- the lower price you pay, the less they get paid. Some agents also view extended negotiations as bad for business because A) it increases the likelihood that the sales price will go down (they get paid less), and B) it increases the likelihood that the contract will not go through (it costs them more time, and they might not get paid).

In terms of selling, I am in favor of a fixed fee + a exponentially growing percentage of any amount over a certain value you determine. That will really make the seller's agent eager to get the best price for you.

States where rebates are legal: http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/real_estate/rebates-details.ht...

Currently illegal in: OR, AK, KS, OK, IA (only if more than 1 broker in transaction), MO, LA, MS, TN, AL

BigMoneyGrip said:   
If you had some business cards from your buyers agent, you could hand one of those over at the open house. Tell the seller's agent that your guy is on a family vacation this week.


And lying and unethical behavior is better for you why?

NEDeals said:   BigMoneyGrip said:   
If you had some business cards from your buyers agent, you could hand one of those over at the open house. Tell the seller's agent that your guy is on a family vacation this week.


And lying and unethical behavior is better for you why?

Yeah, and I've never heard a realator say "there's never been a better time to buy a home" -- that's the model of truthfulness and ethical behavior, right?

justsomeguy1974 said:   Wow, this site just keeps getting worse when it comes to ways to rip off real estate agents. This thread contains deception, lies, call scripts containing manipulation, etc. You should all be very proud of yourself selling your integrity for a few bucks. EDIT: I also find ironic the list of services (not all inclusive btw) that the OP enumerates. Obviously real estate agents earn their commission since they are attaching value to this list.

Yeah because we all know that people that work on their own cars are ripping off mechanics(rolls eyes).

Porqin said:   Interesting idea. This could provide thousands in savings, and much easier to find a willing agent offering rebates. In general, the rebating agent need not even be physically located in the same location, right? (other than the constraint of within the same state)

I guess that would purely depend on what you need them for.

If you can manage everything mentioned above on your own it would seem that in theory you would only need someone in the same state. If let's say you want him to sit on the sidelines and you end up needing a buyers agent to show a non occupied property(lets say foreclosure) with a stubborn listing agent than you may have to in that 1 instance bring the buyers agent out(and if he's on the other side of the state it could be an issue). Or it would seem to me that a way around that is to just find another buyers agent who will agree to being paid maybe a $100 to show you that place without requiring a contract for them to represent you as a buyers agent.

I'd bet that you could find local realtors willing to do tasks like that for a flat fee while you don't bother your rebating agent who is 300 miles away, but in the same state. Then when the offer is submitted all you'll probably have to do is make 1 phone call, maybe have some things emailed/faxed/mailed to you to hand over to the listing agent that has the buyers agents information attached to an offer. That's at least my guess. Maybe someone could provide more specific information.

dshibb said:   justsomeguy1974 said:   Wow, this site just keeps getting worse when it comes to ways to rip off real estate agents. This thread contains deception, lies, call scripts containing manipulation, etc. You should all be very proud of yourself selling your integrity for a few bucks. EDIT: I also find ironic the list of services (not all inclusive btw) that the OP enumerates. Obviously real estate agents earn their commission since they are attaching value to this list.

Yeah because we all know that people that work on their own cars are ripping off mechanics(rolls eyes).


I think that's a troll you're feeding. Nobody's that stupid.

NEDeals said:   
And lying and unethical behavior is better for you why?


I think people have to realize that lying or deception basically has to run hand and hand with a sales oriented business.

Ask you're realtor once if they've ever given a better a rebate than you've received once. They basically have to lie when that question gets asked if they have. Ask them how much total time they'll spend on work after they list your place on MLS and again they'll probably lie. They almost have to.

I'll use a different example. NEDeals is listing something on craigslist and it's a relatively expensive item and he has the misfortune of getting a call from me. Now once I start it'll be only a matter of time until I've got you down to not only your 'original bottom dollar', but potentially lower than that. Now if instead of going through and manipulating my way to that outcome I instead just asked you "What is the lowest price you could ever see yourself giving on this?" And you actually answered honestly you would be an idiot.

Now personally when it comes to my business I'm honest about everything. Sure I do that because I want to, but primarily it's because I think it makes smart business sense to be brutally honest about everything. When it comes to me buying something or procuring information from some source you better believe that I lie my face off because you have to in order to not be taken in a negotiation.

stanolshefski said:   NEDeals said:   BigMoneyGrip said:   
If you had some business cards from your buyers agent, you could hand one of those over at the open house. Tell the seller's agent that your guy is on a family vacation this week.


And lying and unethical behavior is better for you why?

Yeah, and I've never heard a realator say "there's never been a better time to buy a home" -- that's the model of truthfulness and ethical behavior, right?


Who have you heard say that and what were the total circumstances surrounding the comment? Even assuming your example is lying and unethical, this justifies someone to lie and be unethical, how exactly? If you someone steals from you, do you now have license to steal from someone else's house?

You can't justify bad behavior from bad behavior, even if the latter actually existed.

I think electricians and plumbers are really expensive.
someone should start a thread on rebating master plumbers.

OIiverQuackenbush said:   I think electricians and plumbers are really expensive.
someone should start a thread on rebating master plumbers.


Why? If you want to do that work yourself than you don't have to hire anyone and it's just as easy as performing the work and not paying anybody. In real estate as detailed above it's not as simple.


And there is no point to a 'rebating plumber'. They can just charge you a different rate. Unfortunately buyers agent commissions are set by the sellers agent so you have no control what the price for services is unless they rebate it back to you.

Porqin said:   And, moreover, if the buyer's agent used a more transparent cost structure, such as on a time-materials basis (e.g $XX/hour), or a fixed-rate basis $XXXX, then it would be allow for more better cost control. % of a sale makes no real sense, as that would be like having a plumber charge me based on the value of my home, to perform the same repair in the same location. Issue with that is consumer would be paying for the time they spend looking at various houses and areas that they ultimately decide against. There are also those that look and end up not buying. also those sellers that list, sometimes at unrealistic prices, possibly testing the market, and go through multiple agents. that all is part of business... time and expenses incurred by agents. so it is strictly a results driven business.

JaxFL said:   Porqin said:   And, moreover, if the buyer's agent used a more transparent cost structure, such as on a time-materials basis (e.g $XX/hour), or a fixed-rate basis $XXXX, then it would be allow for more better cost control. % of a sale makes no real sense, as that would be like having a plumber charge me based on the value of my home, to perform the same repair in the same location. Issue with that is consumer would be paying for the time they spend looking at various houses and areas that they ultimately decide against. There are also those that look and end up not buying. also those sellers that list, sometimes at unrealistic prices, possibly testing the market, and go through multiple agents. that all is part of business... time and expenses incurred by agents. so it is strictly a results driven business.

^^^^JaxFL is right! The structure that is in place is because that is what consumers are most conducive towards. Many actually believe they're getting carted around for free to look at as many homes as they would like. They don't put 2 and 2 together to realize that everybody doing this is figured into the high commission at the end. If a realtor suggested they pay a very high hourly rate similar to lawyer rates($100+) for being carted around, research, for time spent during offers, and closing they would scream bloody murder and not use that realtor. And the reason why hourly rates have to be so high? Because if you've ever worked in a business like that you would know that there is numerous odd hours that couldn't be billed to someone who you need to make up for them by charging more when you can bill. It also incentivizes your realtor to drag their feet and allow deals to go through to someone else so that they can bill more hours.

So far IMO the best compensation structure mentioned is the one Porqin mentioned for the listing agent side. If I was to sell I would try hard to see if an agent was willing to agree to such a comp structure.

For buyers agent that was smart and I actually thought could deliver well on their cost I would set up a similar deal, but in reverse. Flat fee + sliding scale on the cheaper the price I get below some target amount. The problem is of course that you can keep on determining that the cheaper places he is bringing you to are not enough quality for that price so more thought would have to be done on that. You could use per square foot(meh). You could go off discount to appraisal value(like that) or you could go off of cost of ownership to own vs. estimate of renting a similar place in same location(also potentially a good option).

I am confused... Unless you are doing this to get the tax free income on the rebate for some reason, it would seem that the best strategy is always deal with listing agent.

They are not stupid... if your offer is lower than one from somebody with a buyers agent, they have incentive to cut their commission to the owner to make your deal go thru... and they do that often.

You get the house at 3% less, the owner gets the best price for the house, and nobody has to lie... What am I missing?

SteveG

dshibb said:   ...For buyers agent that was smart ]and I actually thought could deliver well on their cost I would set up a similar deal, but in reverse. Flat fee + sliding scale on the cheaper the price I get below some target amount. The problem is of course that you can keep on determining that the cheaper places he is bringing you to are not enough quality for that price so more thought would have to be done on that. You could use per square foot(meh). You could go off discount to appraisal value(like that) or you could go off of cost of ownership to own vs. estimate of renting a similar place in same location(also potentially a good option).

I am involved in buying professionally (but not real estate) and I doubt this would work due to the variability of the product. The target is indeterminate.

SteveG

sgogo said:   They are not stupid... if your offer is lower than one from somebody with a buyers agent, they have incentive to cut their commission to the owner to make your deal go thru... and they do that often.

I don't know if I buy the notion that this 'happens often'(with a rebating agent you get the benefit every single time) and it presumes that there always will be another offer on the house.

Skipping 289 Messages...
My name is Christy Redmer, Realtor with We Give Realty located in Jacksonville - St. Augustine, FL. My husband Matt is the broker/owner of We Give Reaty, so it is an independent real estate agency. This is how we are able to offer a substantial rebate on new construction home purchases for anyone who uses us as their buyers agent. We give a 2% rebate, which is equal to over 66% of our commission on a typical 3% commission that the builders in this area pay us. This is legal in Florida, and we are careful to follow Florida law which states that rebating or commission sharing has to be disclosed to all parties involved in the transaction. We offer our 2% rebate to anyone who uses us to purchase ANY new construction home in the state of Florida. Please visit our website at www.WeGiveRealty.com for more information.



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