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rated:
Basically, Microsoft force installed windows 10, it crashed her work computer.  She lost business.  So she sues, and Microsoft says...not worth it, here's $10k

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3089071/microsoft-windows/c...
 

Moderator Comment: This thread is mirrored to these forums: DEAL DISCUSSION, TECHNOLOGY, FINANCE, FINANCE. — Dec. 10, 2016 @ 2:53am
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Windows 10 is great. Since Windows 2000, every other release of windows has been worthy of consideration.

They must have ... (more)

etee (Aug. 13, 2016 @ 12:47p) |

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/microsoft-pays-windows-10-installs-23...
some other dude got $650 for his time spent after a w... (more)

imbatman (Sep. 29, 2016 @ 6:47a) |

I feel like they should pay me too. They were more involved with my transition, though. Their employees actually screw... (more)

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rated:
She's my hero!

rated:
My hero too....Microsoft loves forcing users to do all kinds of things....I now use Apple/Mac OS

rated:
Yes forced conversion to Windows 10 is ridiculous. Made our $500K microscope inoperable until we downgraded to a previous Windows OS. A choice to upgrade or not would have been nice....

rated:
she said: she could not shut down her company the week or more it would take to buy a new PC and have her IT consultant set it up, provision it with the software she needed, and transfer her files

Right...a "week or more" to have someone come in and install Chrome and Outlook and transfer a pst to a new machine.  She uses GoDaddy for email - that's probably what crippled her ability to reply to clients.

The forced upgrades to 10 suck but I think she was being a bit indulgent in her description of the issue, as many users often are.  This issue at worst would have taken a local shop a half a day to rectify.

rated:
i thought it was a lottery or something. lol. only 10k? why does microsoft need to force us with all of this.

rated:
christoj879 said:   
she said: she could not shut down her company the week or more it would take to buy a new PC and have her IT consultant set it up, provision it with the software she needed, and transfer her files

Right...a "week or more" to have someone come in and install Chrome and Outlook and transfer a pst to a new machine.  She uses GoDaddy for email - that's probably what crippled her ability to reply to clients.

The forced upgrades to 10 suck but I think she was being a bit indulgent in her description of the issue, as many users often are.  This issue at worst would have taken a local shop a half a day to rectify.

  For basic apps, yes. What about the proprietary software and/or databases she was using for her business? Would you turn those over to a "local shop" and hope for the best? They may have no experience with those. The software may not work in Win 10. I can't even get itunes to work in Win10! (keeps saying "This app won't work on your PC")
If the shop fails, there goes your business (and clients) till they get it fixed.
She really needed a backup PC, fully configured.  She's partially at fault for trying to run a business without any proper backup (what if the PC had died on her?), but Microsoft sure deserves to pay a good part of the damages in this case.

rated:
I agree that she should have had daily image backups if the PC was that important to her business. Any semi-competent IT person could roll that back in about an hour.

rated:
belgique said:   My hero too....Microsoft loves forcing users to do all kinds of things....I now use Apple/Mac OS

  Because Apple doesn't ever force people to do anything...  right?
 

rated:
skarydrunkguy said:   
belgique said:   My hero too....Microsoft loves forcing users to do all kinds of things....I now use Apple/Mac OS

  Because Apple doesn't ever force people to do anything...  right?

  
I don't know if Apple forces users to upgrade. At least on the OS it doesn't matter, since Apple gives away (free) the operating system of their computers.

I'm done with Windows. First, it just sucks. Not only it forces people to upgrade to the new OS, but my biggest complaint is when the computers reboots to perform an update, right in the middle of something important! MS programmers must have put a line of code that says IF THE USER IS DOING SOMETHING IMPORTANT & THERE IS AN UPDATE, UPDATE!

I'm converting my PC to Linux (not even keeping Windows in a partition), and I won't look back. I used to use Linux at work (together with Windows), and I was way more productive while on the Linux side (connecting with SSH to a Linux cluster). Yes, it helps to be somewhat competent with a computer, but most Linux versions nowadays have a pretty good GUI interface.

I just don't understand how Windows dominates the PC market anymore. Having to pay for an OS?! With Linux being free?! Or Apple's OS X being free?! For your next computer do yourself a favor: buy the hardware, and just install a free OS (Linux or OS X). It is the FWF way (cheaper and better).

rated:
funny to see people fighting over apple vs microsoft vs linux etc etc... same with ios vs android. At the end of the day, you do the same thing irrespective of OS/manufacturer-- use chrome for surfing, use maybe office apps etc.

Wish people, instead of getting caught in hype, would give lower priority to these machines and enjoy their life more

Cheers

rated:
noelandres said:   
skarydrunkguy said:   
belgique said:   My hero too....Microsoft loves forcing users to do all kinds of things....I now use Apple/Mac OS

  Because Apple doesn't ever force people to do anything...  right?

  
I don't know if Apple forces users to upgrade. At least on the OS it doesn't matter, since Apple gives away (free) the operating system of their computers.

I'm done with Windows. First, it just sucks. Not only it forces people to upgrade to the new OS, but my biggest complaint is when the computers reboots to perform an update, right in the middle of something important! MS programmers must have put a line of code that says IF THE USER IS DOING SOMETHING IMPORTANT & THERE IS AN UPDATE, UPDATE!

I'm converting my PC to Linux (not even keeping Windows in a partition), and I won't look back. I used to use Linux at work (together with Windows), and I was way more productive while on the Linux side (connecting with SSH to a Linux cluster). Yes, it helps to be somewhat competent with a computer, but most Linux versions nowadays have a pretty good GUI interface.

I just don't understand how Windows dominates the PC market anymore. Having to pay for an OS?! With Linux being free?! Or Apple's OS X being free?! For your next computer do yourself a favor: buy the hardware, and just install a free OS (Linux or OS X). It is the FWF way (cheaper and better).

  
you could turn off the auto upgrades. You could restore after the update.

rated:
sackoloot said:   
noelandres said:   
skarydrunkguy said:   
belgique said:   My hero too....Microsoft loves forcing users to do all kinds of things....I now use Apple/Mac OS

  Because Apple doesn't ever force people to do anything...  right?

  
I don't know if Apple forces users to upgrade. At least on the OS it doesn't matter, since Apple gives away (free) the operating system of their computers.

I'm done with Windows. First, it just sucks. Not only it forces people to upgrade to the new OS, but my biggest complaint is when the computers reboots to perform an update, right in the middle of something important! MS programmers must have put a line of code that says IF THE USER IS DOING SOMETHING IMPORTANT & THERE IS AN UPDATE, UPDATE!

I'm converting my PC to Linux (not even keeping Windows in a partition), and I won't look back. I used to use Linux at work (together with Windows), and I was way more productive while on the Linux side (connecting with SSH to a Linux cluster). Yes, it helps to be somewhat competent with a computer, but most Linux versions nowadays have a pretty good GUI interface.

I just don't understand how Windows dominates the PC market anymore. Having to pay for an OS?! With Linux being free?! Or Apple's OS X being free?! For your next computer do yourself a favor: buy the hardware, and just install a free OS (Linux or OS X). It is the FWF way (cheaper and better).

  
you could turn off the auto upgrades. You could restore after the update.

When it comes to avoiding Windows 10, you can't just turn off auto updates.  It does sneaky updates when you are sleeping even if you have the "no updates" setting.

rated:
sackoloot said:   
noelandres said:   
skarydrunkguy said:   
belgique said:   My hero too....Microsoft loves forcing users to do all kinds of things....I now use Apple/Mac OS

  Because Apple doesn't ever force people to do anything...  right?

  
I don't know if Apple forces users to upgrade. At least on the OS it doesn't matter, since Apple gives away (free) the operating system of their computers.

I'm done with Windows. First, it just sucks. Not only it forces people to upgrade to the new OS, but my biggest complaint is when the computers reboots to perform an update, right in the middle of something important! MS programmers must have put a line of code that says IF THE USER IS DOING SOMETHING IMPORTANT & THERE IS AN UPDATE, UPDATE!

I'm converting my PC to Linux (not even keeping Windows in a partition), and I won't look back. I used to use Linux at work (together with Windows), and I was way more productive while on the Linux side (connecting with SSH to a Linux cluster). Yes, it helps to be somewhat competent with a computer, but most Linux versions nowadays have a pretty good GUI interface.

I just don't understand how Windows dominates the PC market anymore. Having to pay for an OS?! With Linux being free?! Or Apple's OS X being free?! For your next computer do yourself a favor: buy the hardware, and just install a free OS (Linux or OS X). It is the FWF way (cheaper and better).

  
you could turn off the auto upgrades. You could restore after the update.

  
I guess I could do that. But my point stands, MS programmers put MS priorities over the user's. In pretty much all they do. So I am done with MS. I shouldn't have to spend my time trying to make my OS work for me (as you suggest).

rated:
Odd, I still have Win7 machines for work (typing on one now) that haven't been "forced" to upgrade. It has asked quite a few times, I just select "no" and move on.

Maybe someday my client will upgrade, but until then I need the domain client in W7 to work.

rated:
not mine. I think she was wrong
 

rated:
Microsoft Windows  does NOT force an upgrade time. You can select the time it does it.  LEARN how to use it 

rated:
$10k seems to be a little small for such a large company like microsoft. seems like she might have forgotten to turn off auto update and settled.

rated:
talk about "propitiatory Os systems..

rated:
noelandres said:   
I just don't understand how Windows dominates the PC market anymore. Having to pay for an OS?! With Linux being free?! Or Apple's OS X being free?! For your next computer do yourself a favor: buy the hardware, and just install a free OS (Linux or OS X). It is the FWF way (cheaper and better).
 

This is hilarious. Clearly you don't have to deal with non-technological users, or with users who specifically don't want to deal with OS installation.

rated:
Wow, there is a lot of ignorance in this thread.

For running a home business, most people are stuck in Windows. Depending on the business, many people are even stuck with other antiquities like Java, Acrobat, Flash, and so on.

That said. That woman got off cheap. If one has data that critical to running a business, then one needs to take precautions to ensure the integrity and availability of that data.

Everyone reading that article should learn a lesson too. Not just for a business, but also for personal pictures/home movies/financial records/etc... Hard drives fail. Power surges happen. Tornados/Hurricanes happen. Cosmic radiation and computer demons happen.

Keep a bare minimum of two copies of really critical, irreplaceable data.

While a free cloud service is better than nothing, it's still not a solution. Free cloud services have no obligation to you and will do little more than reset your account. If nothing else, backup to two free cloud services (less chance of both losing your data simultaneously).

Full system images are pretty easy to create now. Mirror Raid NAS's are pretty cheap now. No reason to ever not have access to your data should a single drive/computer fail.

That said, I'm glad the woman got her money from Microsoft. I'm sick of beating back Windows 10 installation prompts. I've deleted/hidden so many updates, and they just create a fresh new one so it still pops up.

rated:
I don't get it, she agreed to the install and now bitch about it?

The instruction to suppress the nagware is one web search away. About 100% of the industrial system still runs on Windows 7 or older.

Totally agrees on the data backup. One of the engineer here used to do basic PC support and the one time he saw a grown man cry was when he told the guy he can't recover the data for his small business.

rated:
ZenNUTS said:   I don't get it, she agreed to the install and now bitch about it?

The instruction to suppress the nagware is one web search away. About 100% of the industrial system still runs on Windows 7 or older.

Totally agrees on the data backup. One of the engineer here used to do basic PC support and the one time he saw a grown man cry was when he told the guy he can't recover the data for his small business.

  You don't 'agree to the install' during feb-april I believe.  You have to actively Deny it.  Otherwise you wake up one morning and your computer is now Windows 10.  Microsoft changed that, but it was a bit of a wake up call to people who don't read every word and click X

rated:
ahallfatwallett said:   I agree that she should have had daily image backups if the PC was that important to her business. Any semi-competent IT person could roll that back in about an hour.
  
Good luck on that!  Most medium-sized business do not actually have working backups.  ie tested periodically and confirmed.
 

rated:
ZenNUTS said:   I don't get it, she agreed to the install and now bitch about it?

The instruction to suppress the nagware is one web search away. About 100% of the industrial system still runs on Windows 7 or older.

Totally agrees on the data backup. One of the engineer here used to do basic PC support and the one time he saw a grown man cry was when he told the guy he can't recover the data for his small business.

  install was automatic on DWs computer. laptop was on counter. I was sitting on sofa. Saw it start to shut down. Went over to investigate and Win10 was installing. We never had a prompt to install the update.

maybe DW should sue since that's her personal and business computer. Who cares that she only uses it once every 3 weeks and I have all the data backed up to external HD.

rated:
I've had my updates settings mysteriously change twice on Win7, and I ALWAYS have it turned off. Keep your eyes open and save restore points before every significant change you make.

rated:
And that's why I never went above windows 7 for so many years.

rated:
It's quite easy to disable Windows 10 as an automatic update. Use GWX Control Panel (free):

http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

I've used it a dozen times on different machines. No Windows 10 notifications after that, period. Windows updates continue otherwise. (Windows 7 will continue to receive updates/support through January, 2020.)

rated:
gremln007 said:   
ahallfatwallett said:   I agree that she should have had daily image backups if the PC was that important to her business. Any semi-competent IT person could roll that back in about an hour.
  
Good luck on that!  Most medium-sized business do not actually have working backups.  ie tested periodically and confirmed.

Probably true, but whose fault is that?  The business owner's.  Pretty much every PC owner has heard that hard drives can fail and they could lose files.  Even the ones who know often ignore it - and they'll admit they are taking a chance if you ask them.  They just assume it won't ever happen to them and only happens to other people.

RAID is one way to protect against hard drive failure, but it doesn't protect against infection, data corruption, or accidental erasure.  I've encountered one of the "crypto" infections that encrypts all the documents on your hard drive then forces you to pay a ransom to get them back.  There is NO WAY to recover them otherwise.  (An early version of one of the crypto infections was cracked so people could unlock their files, but later versions uses more difficult encryption.)  A RAID would have two copies of now completely useless encrypted files.

An offline backup - either a cloud backup, a NAS, or external hard drive that is NOT always plugged in - is truly the only way to protect against infections.  That's why I don't bother with RAID anymore.

rated:
RedWolfe01 said:   Odd, I still have Win7 machines for work (typing on one now) that haven't been "forced" to upgrade. It has asked quite a few times, I just select "no" and move on.

Maybe someday my client will upgrade, but until then I need the domain client in W7 to work.

Agreed.  They do not force you to "upgrade".

I'm running Windows 7 across the board and will continue to do so until 2020.  I hope by then something better than 7, and less intrusive than 10, comes along.  Who knows what it might be.  But for now I simply decline every time I am offered

KB3035583

and that takes care of everything.  Mickeysoft does encourage me to swallow that "upgrade", but they have not force fed it.  I do have to decline, though, every time I use Windows update.  I do not, BTW, allow MS to install upgrades automatically.  Instead, I pick and choose what I want.

And even if you get KB3035583 by accident, it's not fatal until you click.  If you get it and have not clicked, you can remove it.

Some people actually like and want Windows 10.  But millions of us have a different view and will happily use Windows 7 until 2020.  It's a really good OS, best since XP.

rated:
I am a technical user who repeatedly rejected the upgrade and windows 10 still managed to fill my ssd drive up completely freezing my computer downloading the update even though I told it I didn't want to install it. I should probably sue them in small claims for the few hours it took me to figure that out.

People who are saying it is easy... no it isn't. Microsoft changed the way to avoid windows 10 multiple times. Unless you are reasonably technical (keep in mind most people are completely incompetent and that is who MS caters to) it actually was fairly difficult to block it. Many people had it installed before they even knew what windows 10 was to learn they needed to avoid it. They are used to clicking through windows updates and saying yes (which usually is a good thing as unupdated computers are vulnerable).

MS is doing everything possible to avoid the win XP issue from happening again and being forced to support win 7 for 20 years.

rated:
LordB said:   I am a technical user who repeatedly rejected the upgrade and windows 10 still managed to fill my ssd drive up completely freezing my computer downloading the update even though I told it I didn't want to install it. I should probably sue them in small claims for the few hours it took me to figure that out.

People who are saying it is easy... no it isn't. Microsoft changed the way to avoid windows 10 multiple times. Unless you are reasonably technical (keep in mind most people are completely incompetent and that is who MS caters to) it actually was fairly difficult to block it. Many people had it installed before they even knew what windows 10 was to learn they needed to avoid it. They are used to clicking through windows updates and saying yes (which usually is a good thing as unupdated computers are vulnerable).

MS is doing everything possible to avoid the win XP issue from happening again and being forced to support win 7 for 20 years.

  
Thanks for an interesting post.  I currently have four different computers running 7 in an ongoing manner.  I've never encountered the problem you describe.  Of course, as mentioned above, I do NOT allow MS to install updates without my first reviewing them.  Instead, I use the setting they call

"Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them."

I guess if you give Mickeysoft an inch they will take a mile.

rated:
noelandres said:   I don't know if Apple forces users to upgrade.
 

I know we are talking about computers and you are right that this is the case on OSX.
But on iOS the constant reminders to update are very annoying. At least you have an option to say no. I would prefer an option to check and download iOS updates manually.

rated:
LordB said:   I am a technical user who repeatedly rejected the upgrade and windows 10 still managed to fill my ssd drive up completely freezing my computer downloading the update even though I told it I didn't want to install it. I should probably sue them in small claims for the few hours it took me to figure that out.

People who are saying it is easy... no it isn't.

  Yes it is quite easy, at least for someone who isn't a computer novice.  Use GWX Control Panel as mentioned above.  No commands to type, just a few clicks.  I've never have 10 get installed on any PC I've installed this on, months later.

If you use the MajorGeeks page, it has a demo video:

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/gwx_control_panel.html

If you ARE a computer novice, you should already have a "helper" who does these things for you, don't you?  Just show them this post to have them help you disable the Windows 10 upgrade if they don't know how to do it.

rated:
LordB said:   I am a technical user who repeatedly rejected the upgrade and windows 10 still managed to fill my ssd drive up completely freezing my computer downloading the update even though I told it I didn't want to install it. I should probably sue them in small claims for the few hours it took me to figure that out.


 

  What the heck are you doing with only (basicly) 3+gig free  space (size of Win10 setup files)  left on an SSD . Any size SSD will choke with that little space left on it . Even when installed (uncompressed) Win10 is only 14.8 gigs , and thats still very little room for an SSD to work properly without causing "some" type of issues  .  Not too tech savy imo .

rated:
stereo55 said:   
LordB said:   I am a technical user who repeatedly rejected the upgrade and windows 10 still managed to fill my ssd drive up completely freezing my computer downloading the update even though I told it I didn't want to install it. I should probably sue them in small claims for the few hours it took me to figure that out.


 

  What the heck are you doing with only (basicly) 3+gig free  space (size of Win10 setup files)  left on an SSD . Any size SSD will choke with that little space left on it . Even when installed (uncompressed) Win10 is only 14.8 gigs , and thats still very little room for an SSD to work properly without causing "some" type of issues  .  Not too tech savy imo .

  My CBS log folder has ballooned up to over 50GB's before I realized what was happening.  I wouldn't expect even an amateur 'tech savy'  user to figure what's going on there.  The Windows 10 updates that I have to keep hiding/rejecting are the only thing I can think of for that.

rated:
shinobi1 said:   
LordB said:   I am a technical user who repeatedly rejected the upgrade and windows 10 still managed to fill my ssd drive up completely freezing my computer downloading the update even though I told it I didn't want to install it. I should probably sue them in small claims for the few hours it took me to figure that out.

People who are saying it is easy... no it isn't. Microsoft changed the way to avoid windows 10 multiple times. Unless you are reasonably technical (keep in mind most people are completely incompetent and that is who MS caters to) it actually was fairly difficult to block it. Many people had it installed before they even knew what windows 10 was to learn they needed to avoid it. They are used to clicking through windows updates and saying yes (which usually is a good thing as unupdated computers are vulnerable).

MS is doing everything possible to avoid the win XP issue from happening again and being forced to support win 7 for 20 years.

  
Thanks for an interesting post.  I currently have four different computers running 7 in an ongoing manner.  I've never encountered the problem you describe.  Of course, as mentioned above, I do NOT allow MS to install updates without my first reviewing them.  Instead, I use the setting they call

"Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them."

I guess if you give Mickeysoft an inch they will take a mile.

  In case you missed it above, don't count on this holding. Something out there can change this setting on you. I wouldn't believe it, either, except it happened twice.

rated:
dbphillips said:   
shinobi1 said:   
LordB said:   LordB;19548241 said:
  
Thanks for an interesting post.  I currently have four different computers running 7 in an ongoing manner.  I've never encountered the problem you describe.  Of course, as mentioned above, I do NOT allow MS to install updates without my first reviewing them.  Instead, I use the setting they call

"Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them."

I guess if you give Mickeysoft an inch they will take a mile.

  In case you missed it above, don't count on this holding. Something out there can change this setting on you. I wouldn't believe it, either, except it happened twice.

  There is one level of updates that are installed no matter what settings. The only way to stop it is to disable the windows update service.

rated:
gatzdon said:   
stereo55 said:   
LordB said:   I am a technical user who repeatedly rejected the upgrade and windows 10 still managed to fill my ssd drive up completely freezing my computer downloading the update even though I told it I didn't want to install it. I should probably sue them in small claims for the few hours it took me to figure that out.


 

  What the heck are you doing with only (basicly) 3+gig free  space (size of Win10 setup files)  left on an SSD . Any size SSD will choke with that little space left on it . Even when installed (uncompressed) Win10 is only 14.8 gigs , and thats still very little room for an SSD to work properly without causing "some" type of issues  .  Not too tech savy imo .

  My CBS log folder has ballooned up to over 50GB's before I realized what was happening.  I wouldn't expect even an amateur 'tech savy'  user to figure what's going on there.  The Windows 10 updates that I have to keep hiding/rejecting are the only thing I can think of for that.

  HHmm , well maybe if you had explained your situation in better detail vs leaving it open for an obvious  interpretation of  the situation as a "newbie" or "user" type error , then maybe you would have received a much different response or not one  at all coming from , as you put it ....an "amatuer" tech ; lol .

I personally had no problems "rejecting" Win10 updates or downloads on my own multiple systems (clients included) , however I too understand that given the exact same type of situation/scenario/problem on the exact/similar  type of of hardware on single or multiple system builds  can often (more times than not) require its own unique , workaround or  fix (specially on Windows os ). 

By the way , I might almost be offended by the term "ameteur" tech  if I wasnt so laid back , but also very confident in my own abilities over the last 20+ years of dealing with the Windows operating system ... ( well that sounded abit pompous , huh ... rofl , but I really just did that statement more out fun  and not to glorify myself ; but working with the os for 20+ years is true )



Lastly , the Windows os (and Microsoft) can be "evil" at times and Windows 10 is not for everybody or every pc . Ive upgraded most of my systems to 10 without any problems (bsod , crashes , etc) and its been very stable thus far on my new builds and even on a few older system I have laying around . Windows 10 is not perfect by any means , but its not bad . Keep in mind you can try the upgrade for 30 days and revert back to your older os before the 30 days is up . For those not aware ,the free upgrade does end July 29th , after that you must pay for it .

 

Skipping 40 Messages...
rated:
I feel like they should pay me too. They were more involved with my transition, though. Their employees actually screwed my computer up doing the upgrade.

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