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Regardless of if you agree with this or not - how could this work financially? Tuition has been spiking for years and if the Govt started covering it all wouldn't that just encourage colleges to continue to increase the cost? This cost has to be born somewhere by someone and it won't be cheap.  There should also be some component that the degree you get has to be economically viable and/or serve a social function.  Also repayment penalties, etc if you don't complete the program. in addition only something like 65% of high schoolers attend some type of college if that # rose significantly seems like the whole system would be overwhelmed/crash.

I just don't see how this could ever possibly work. It would be cheaper and more effective to just give all graduating seniors a $50K scholarship,etc for college. (Full disclosure I don't agree with any of the proposals, but willing to discuss as something clearly needs to be done with college costs spiraling)

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nic3456 said:   
I just don't see how this could ever possibly work. It would be cheaper and more effective to just give all graduating seniors a $50K scholarship,etc for college. 

  that covers pretty much every instate tuition for 4 years. How is that not "free"?

rufflesinc said:   
nic3456 said:   
I just don't see how this could ever possibly work. It would be cheaper and more effective to just give all graduating seniors a $50K scholarship,etc for college. 

  that covers pretty much every instate tuition for 4 years. How is that not "free"?

  It would still be free, but would help cap what colleges would charge/increase.  It would also make students bear some responsbility if they wanted to attend a school that was say $60K, vs 50K, etc and should require less administrative costs.

Isn't the fundamental problem the same as for K-12 costs?

One could argue that the skyrocketing costs of higher ed stem from the half-measure of subsidized loans. If we jump in with both feet and make available public schools for free like we do with k-12 (rather than loans), then the loan bubble need not affect costs. There are still private K-12 schools, and they can be pricey, but that doesn't interfere with the existence of public gradeschool, so one imagines there could still exist private universities as an alternative to public ones, without making public university implausible.

Nobody should try to argue logic with Mrs. Santa Claus.  

Yer gonna lose, dude! 

It won't happen. I don't see the point of discussing the hundreds of hair-brained proposals from candidates here.

As for college cost, if you are smart and clever, there are tons of way to get college education for next to nothing. Many of those have already been discussed here.

ZenNUTS said:   As for college cost, if you are smart and clever, there are tons of way to get college education for next to nothing. Many of those have already been discussed here.
  yes, the education, but what about the degree?

If the numbers are right assuming 3 million kids graduate a year and they were given $50K/each that's $150 Billion/year in extra expense - or ~$1,000 per US worker.

@naas - that is an interesting thought - I suppose then it comes down to how much Govt involvement people want

Free college will only decrease the compensatory value of a college degree - the more people with a degree makes the degree less valuable to an employer.
 

Glitch99 said:   Free college will only decrease the compensatory value of a college degree - the more people with a degree makes the degree less valuable to an employer.
  college is not a widget. You still have to take the courses and pass them.

Sanders has indicated that he is "not there yet" on endorsing HRC. Then suddenly HRC starts proposing things that Sanders wanted. I predict that the next step is an endorsement by Sanders.

Two main reasons for college tuition rising.

1) States have been slashing funding left and right.
2) Easy access to debt for students, and increase in the number of people believing that college is the golden ticket.

#2 is the reasons colleges are spending millions, if not billions updating their campus's to add comfort features, and cool looking things to attract students. They know how much money most students are capable of borrowing each year, and based on that, they can get away with ever increasing costs.

I think before someone qualifies for University free tuition, they should have to go to a community college, and get a 2 year degree, with some reasonable GPA. This should be to weed out the people who really will not have a chance in most University's. At the same time a good number of these people might decide that the 2 year degree, or a technical degree might better suit them. Then limit the number of years, number of credit hours that you can take at a University to complete your degree.

rufflesinc said:   
Glitch99 said:   Free college will only decrease the compensatory value of a college degree - the more people with a degree makes the degree less valuable to an employer.
  college is not a widget. You still have to take the courses and pass them.

  That was the basic premise behind a high school diploma too...


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Glitch99 said:   rufflesinc said:   
Glitch99 said:   Free college will only decrease the compensatory value of a college degree - the more people with a degree makes the degree less valuable to an employer.
  college is not a widget. You still have to take the courses and pass them.

  That was the basic premise behind a high school diploma too...

Maybe where you went to high school but not mine and I went to hs in tennessee.

Yes, we already have "free college" - it's called high school. If you think the government is doing a good job educating high schoolers, then by all means have them also educate college students.

soundtechie said:   Yes, we already have "free college" - it's called high school. If you think the government is doing a good job educating high schoolers, then by all means have them also educate college students.
we already have something called public universities....

soundtechie said:   Yes, we already have "free college" - it's called high school. If you think the government is doing a good job educating high schoolers, then by all means have them also educate college students.
  
The government did a great job educating me in college.

 

rufflesinc said:   
soundtechie said:   Yes, we already have "free college" - it's called high school. If you think the government is doing a good job educating high schoolers, then by all means have them also educate college students.
we already have something called public universities....

  

Those "public universities" are getting their state funding slashed year after year.. Pretty soon they will have zero state funding, and might as well be private schools.

nic3456 said:    how could this work financially? 
  
Easy
'College' will need to fundamentally morph into something much more practical 
 

daw4888 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
soundtechie said:   Yes, we already have "free college" - it's called high school. If you think the government is doing a good job educating high schoolers, then by all means have them also educate college students.
we already have something called public universities....

  

Those "public universities" are getting their state funding slashed year after year.. Pretty soon they will have zero state funding, and might as well be private schools.

  That doesn't change the fact that its no less the government doing the educating than public K-12 schools

There are 6.8M undergrad students at public 4 year colleges and 6.4M at 2 year colleges.
Average tuition is $9410 at 4 year schools and $3300 at community.
Aid is specific to families making under $125k which is 80%.

Thats about $68 billion total.

Right now the federal government spends ~$65B on financial aid (not counting loans). States spend $10B.

jerosen said:   
Thats about $68 billion total.

Right now the federal government spends ~$65B on financial aid (not counting loans).

  Thats weird.

daw4888 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
soundtechie said:   Yes, we already have "free college" - it's called high school. If you think the government is doing a good job educating high schoolers, then by all means have them also educate college students.
we already have something called public universities....

  

Those "public universities" are getting their state funding slashed year after year.. Pretty soon they will have zero state funding, and might as well be private schools.

  

You're right that state funding has been dropping for decades.

However public universities on average still get ~50% of their funding from government sources.     
 

rufflesinc said:   
jerosen said:   
Thats about $68 billion total.

Right now the federal government spends ~$65B on financial aid (not counting loans).

  Thats weird.

  

Well a lot of that aid goes to private and for profit universities.   
For example $10B of pell grants go to private schools.

$18B of it is tax credits and ~25% of that went to people making over $100k.    

Theres also $15B for military/veterans that isn't specific to private / public.

I don't think they're saying the plan would be to unfund aid at private schools but that would be one way to make public schools free without increasing cost to the govt.
 

rufflesinc said:   
Glitch99 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
Glitch99 said:   Free college will only decrease the compensatory value of a college degree - the more people with a degree makes the degree less valuable to an employer.
  college is not a widget. You still have to take the courses and pass them.

  That was the basic premise behind a high school diploma too...

Maybe where you went to high school but not mine and I went to hs in tennessee.

  That's my point - it WAS the idea behind a high school diploma, before everyone began to consider graduation rates to reflect poorly on the school system rather than the caliber of students being taught.  The same will happen with universal college.

Glitch99 said:     That's my point - it WAS the idea behind a high school diploma, before everyone began to consider graduation rates to reflect poorly on the school system rather than the caliber of students being taught.  The same will happen with universal college.
  We are already there.  There are some absolutely useless college grads out there.

ZenNUTS said:   
Glitch99 said:     That's my point - it WAS the idea behind a high school diploma, before everyone began to consider graduation rates to reflect poorly on the school system rather than the caliber of students being taught.  The same will happen with universal college.
  We are already there.  There are some absolutely useless college grads out there.

  useless because they got a degree without working for it, or useless because their degree does not translate into a job? If you got a degree in underwater basket weaving , you could still be good at underwater basket weaving ...

rufflesinc said:   
ZenNUTS said:   
Glitch99 said:     That's my point - it WAS the idea behind a high school diploma, before everyone began to consider graduation rates to reflect poorly on the school system rather than the caliber of students being taught.  The same will happen with universal college.
  We are already there.  There are some absolutely useless college grads out there.

  useless because they got a degree without working for it, or useless because their degree does not translate into a job? If you got a degree in underwater basket weaving , you could still be good at underwater basket weaving ...

  
Its a combination of majors that are useless, and colleges offering higher grades than ever, so more people are graduating with degrees than would have in the past.  Just like everywhere else in society things are getting dumbed down to help average people pass/accomplish things that should be for above average intellect/skills.  I am not saying those people wont be productive in the long run, but there should be some bar set that you have to exceed to get a decent degree.  You cant just keep lowing the bar because its to hard to all the kids with tons of student loan money, and the school wants that money to blow on a pretty new building.

I dont know how well this site is vetted, but it turned up near the top in my quick google search
http://www.gradeinflation.com/

Borrow a few hundred billion more from China?

This will help ensure we have a more educated population of retail cashiers and bartenders.

rufflesinc said:   
ZenNUTS said:   
Glitch99 said:     That's my point - it WAS the idea behind a high school diploma, before everyone began to consider graduation rates to reflect poorly on the school system rather than the caliber of students being taught.  The same will happen with universal college.
  We are already there.  There are some absolutely useless college grads out there.

  useless because they got a degree without working for it, or useless because their degree does not translate into a job? If you got a degree in underwater basket weaving , you could still be good at underwater basket weaving ...

  Useless if you are not using it.

soundtechie said:   Sanders has indicated that he is "not there yet" on endorsing HRC. Then suddenly HRC starts proposing things that Sanders wanted. I predict that the next step is an endorsement by Sanders.
  Feel the Bern baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rufflesinc said:   
Glitch99 said:   Free college will only decrease the compensatory value of a college degree - the more people with a degree makes the degree less valuable to an employer.
  college is not a widget. You still have to take the courses and pass them.

  You've obviously not been to a lot of US colleges lately.   EVERYONE passes.   Paying the bill = passing.   Some of the dumbest people I've ever met in my life I met in college.  And, some of them were students, not instructors.
 

I hated the idea of free college at first, but I am warming to the idea. Maybe two years of public service in exchange for free college tuition?

drodge said:   
rufflesinc said:   
Glitch99 said:   Free college will only decrease the compensatory value of a college degree - the more people with a degree makes the degree less valuable to an employer.
  college is not a widget. You still have to take the courses and pass them.

  You've obviously not been to a lot of US colleges lately.   EVERYONE passes.   Paying the bill = passing.   Some of the dumbest people I've ever met in my life I met in college.  And, some of them were students, not instructors.

  hmm. you were saying?

Isn't there already a GI Bill? I don't know the specifics, but doesn't it give 'free' college for only a few years of service? It seems the government already provides a way for people who can't afford college to pay for it- it just requires work and effort. Frankly, if you aren't willing to spend some work/effort to get into and pay for college, then I don't know how you will succeed in college (or beyond).

Its not the TUITION that is expensive for most public schools. Especially if you also include Community Colleges. I think its certainly within range of the CC and basic public schools to be "free" but the costs have to be cost controlled BY the same legislation. But we don't HAVE enough capacity for that to work for EVERYONE - it would still be competitive for admissions.

Its the cost of living and food that get you -- if your parents can't afford to support you or if there is no educational option in range of your parents house.

As an example, Texas has a law that provides a free ride for the first year for every Valedictorian of a Texas public high school. The big state school (UT Austin) immediately had to request a cap on those admissions to prevent blocking out every other student category. That was just for *1* free automatic admission per high school...

RedWolfe01 said:   Its not the TUITION that is expensive for most public schools. Especially if you also include Community Colleges. I think its certainly within range of the CC and basic public schools to be "free" but the costs have to be cost controlled BY the same legislation. But we don't HAVE enough capacity for that to work for EVERYONE - it would still be competitive for admissions.

Its the cost of living and food that get you -- if your parents can't afford to support you or if there is no educational option in range of your parents house.

As an example, Texas has a law that provides a free ride for the first year for every Valedictorian of a Texas public high school. The big state school (UT Austin) immediately had to request a cap on those admissions to prevent blocking out every other student category. That was just for *1* free automatic admission per high school...

  

Community college is free in Tennessee and Oregon.   It just started in OR this year, we'll see how it works out.      Some states have deals for free university rates for students based on certain criteria.   Georgia has had their Hope Scholarhip deal for a while.    I'm pretty sure theres others.


Texas has over 3000 public high schools and there are can be (often are) more than 1 valedictorian per school.   My nephew's school had 9 valedictorians.

So we could be talking 10-20k kids in TX.    And UT is very good and popular school which would attract a lot of those kids.


edit :  I originally had a link to a texas school where I though it showed 4 valedictorians but apparently those are for 4 different schools.    
looks like this is the law for TX : http://tea.texas.gov/HRG/
It sounds like it applies to just 1 student.    "highest ranking graduate"     And I don't know if TX allows multiple valedictorians or not
 

wp746911 said:   Isn't there already a GI Bill? I don't know the specifics, but doesn't it give 'free' college for only a few years of service?
 

  

Free college in exchange for running around in a sandbox and getting shot at. I bet that if I walked up to a vet and told him that he got his paycheck for free that he would punch me in the face.

Skipping 87 Messages...
State-level school control and funding would fix a lot of this. At the expense of the current rich schools not being quite as nice.

Foreigners coming to the US must be horrified at our schools being funded and supervised at local levels. It's the equivalent of going to the post office in two different towns and having a stamp cost .32 at one and $1 at another.



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