Chip & Sign cards - not so hot?

Archived From: Finance
  • Text Only
Voting History
rated:
I've noticed several retailers like Whole Foods, Wegmans who had new payment terminals installed few month ago now have the chip slots blocked with a plastic tab indicating "Please Swipe Card".
What's up with that? I recall there was some kind of update supposed to go out about a month ago intended to improve the authorization times. I guess that did not work?

Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
I have.

Sure, it's to the bank's ultimate benefit, so they can shut down fraudulent charges faster.

But as a consumer/cust... (more)

arch8ngel (Aug. 11, 2016 @ 1:03p) |

I was just over there, and everybody I dealt with seemed to understand C&S just fine.

There were no blank stares.
There we... (more)

arch8ngel (Aug. 11, 2016 @ 1:06p) |

People who work for NIST could not get jobs at Google, Amazon, Uber, FB, etc.

EvilCapitalist (Aug. 11, 2016 @ 1:13p) |

Staff Summary
Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

Who cares?

I've not seen any retailers go from chip back to magstripe, but plenty who have installed new terminals but not yet activated the chip reader for some reason. This article has merchants and credit companies pointing the finger at each other (though the author's total misunderstanding of the liability rules makes me question the accuracy of the entire story).

Uzito said:   I've noticed several retailers like Whole Foods, Wegmans who had new payment terminals installed few month ago now have the chip slots blocked with a plastic tab indicating "Please Swipe Card".
What's up with that? I recall there was some kind of update supposed to go out about a month ago intended to improve the authorization times. I guess that did not work?

  
EMV is an entire system, not just a card reader.  It is impossible to install everything in the system at once and switch it on simultaneously, some pieces may arrive before they can be used.  Now that consumers are getting used to inserting cards in some stores, they may try to insert a card in new  card readers in other stores, even before they are fully functional there.  Seeing card readers can cause consumer confusion if they are not yet enabled.   For this reason, some merchants are guiding consumers to keep swiping their cards' magnetic stripes until those merchants' EMV implementations are fully functional. 

The liability shift just means that the merchant is liable for fraud involving a chipped card if the merchant didn't have EMV running.  It is still their choice to accept that liability.  It really isn't the consumer's liability for fraud (except for the time wasted dealing with it, especially annoying if mag stripe fraud was preventable by everyone using EMV). 

Coincidence or not, Kroger hasn't asked me for ID to buy >$75 of gift cards since the chip reader went in.

I think some of you may be misunderstanding the OP. I have been to stores that had the chip readers activated (in fact, required if you have a chip card), and now the same stores are requiring swipes.
It may be an in progress update.

beatme said:   I think some of you may be misunderstanding the OP. I have been to stores that had the chip readers activated (in fact, required if you have a chip card), and now the same stores are requiring swipes.
It may be an in progress update.

  
Some companies have had issues with the integration, specifically scaling of the hardware security modules resulting in long waits for authorization.  When the merchants revert to magnetic stripes only, they also put in signage directing consumers to use the stripe instead of the chip.

Chip worked just fine this morning at Whole Foods

xoneinax said:   Chip worked just fine this morning at Whole Foods

Thanks for letting us know.

FWIW, I hate using the chip reader.  Every single place I've been, it takes forever to process.  Apple Pay is faster, so I end up using that most of the time.  

RailroadTrack said:   FWIW, I hate using the chip reader.  Every single place I've been, it takes forever to process.  Apple Pay is faster, so I end up using that most of the time.  
  
This ^^^^

Most are agonizingly slow.  Holds up lines forever when everyone is using them.

RailroadTrack said:   FWIW, I hate using the chip reader.  Every single place I've been, it takes forever to process.  Apple Pay is faster, so I end up using that most of the time.  
I thought that it was part of the system/design that it took so long since it often took 10-20 seconds when I used the chip reader. But there's one cafe I go to where it takes about 2 seconds or less. So, it seems that it's possible to take a short time.

Resistance is futile. Chip cards have been the standard in most of the world for years. The U.S. is playing catch-up. Get with the program!

Yeah! Chip Cards. This is gonna revolutionize everything. Just like when we adopted the Metric System.

We adopted the Metric System?

atikovi said:   We adopted the Metric System?
Interestingly enough, yes, we did, but only for wine and liquor.  This is completely OT, but US adoption of the metric system began -- and ended -- in the late 70s with the introduction of metric sizes for wine and liquor bottles.  The producers and distributors were completely in favor of the switch because the most popular sizes, the fifth and the half-gallon, were reduced slightly to .750 liter and 1.75 liter. The bottles looked pretty much the same but contained less product.


UncaMikey said:   
atikovi said:   We adopted the Metric System?
Interestingly enough, yes, we did, but only for wine and liquor.  This is completely OT, but US adoption of the metric system began -- and ended -- in the late 70s with the introduction of metric sizes for wine and liquor bottles.  The producers and distributors were completely in favor of the switch because the most popular sizes, the fifth and the half-gallon, were reduced slightly to .750 liter and 1.75 liter. The bottles looked pretty much the same but contained less product.

  
Only wine and liquor?  Most medicines I've encountered has been measured in mL or mG.  Almost all personal size water bottles I've run into in the U.S. are 500 mL or 50 cL (or multiples), rather than a pint.  I can't work on any car made in the U.S. for many years without metric sized wrenches. Even my circuit breakers are now measured in Amperes!  (amps).  And I hear if a cop gives you a blood alcohol test it's in g/dL!  Good thing it matches that liquor bottle measuring system!
 

DTASFAB said:   Who cares?

Who cares about trying to force a restaurant to use a prepaid giftcard when you have plenty of other credit cards to use?


Metric Interstate 19
Disclaimer
NEDeals said:   
UncaMikey said:   
atikovi said:   We adopted the Metric System?
Interestingly enough, yes, we did, but only for wine and liquor.  [...]

Only wine and liquor?  Most medicines I've encountered has been measured in mL or mG. [...]

Also interestinginly OT, there's an entire Interstate highway in Arizona signed in metric km.  I found myself driving down this highway several years ago and the shock of seeing km made me momentarily consider if I unknowingly crossed the border into Mexico.

megacare said:   DTASFAB said:   Who cares?

Who cares about trying to force a restaurant to use a prepaid giftcard when you have plenty of other credit cards to use?


The prepaid advertising describes the cards as accepted wherever Visa or MasterCard is accepted. Not everyone trying to use a prepaid card has plenty of other cards to use.

Chip authorizations in Canada are nearly instantaneous.

NEDeals said:   
UncaMikey said:   
atikovi said:   We adopted the Metric System?
Interestingly enough, yes, we did, but only for wine and liquor.  This is completely OT, but US adoption of the metric system began -- and ended -- in the late 70s with the introduction of metric sizes for wine and liquor bottles.  The producers and distributors were completely in favor of the switch because the most popular sizes, the fifth and the half-gallon, were reduced slightly to .750 liter and 1.75 liter. The bottles looked pretty much the same but contained less product.

  
Only wine and liquor?  Most medicines I've encountered has been measured in mL or mG.  Almost all personal size water bottles I've run into in the U.S. are 500 mL or 50 cL (or multiples), rather than a pint.  I can't work on any car made in the U.S. for many years without metric sized wrenches. Even my circuit breakers are now measured in Amperes!  (amps).  And I hear if a cop gives you a blood alcohol test it's in g/dL!  Good thing it matches that liquor bottle measuring system!

  
The US officially uses both, but for most uses one or the other is standard.  As mentioned before, beverages tend to be metric for larger sizes and standard for small ones.  (this is also non-alcoholic as well as liquor -- Soda has been metric a long time and I have even seen metric smaller sizes but those are often imports.

Scientifically metric is standard, if you work in a lab then you are almost certainly using Metric.  Engineering can go either way, but distances/speeds in US are almost always standard.  Its common near the borders to have signs in both metric and standard, particularly Quebec and Mexico.  Both Canada and England have partial implementation/acceptance of metric.  FWIW the military uses miles for SOME things but all of their mapping and artillery is metric.  The grid square of any standard military map is 1000M (or 1KM).

mapen said:   
NEDeals said:   
UncaMikey said:   
atikovi said:   We adopted the Metric System?
Interestingly enough, yes, we did, but only for wine and liquor.  [...]

Only wine and liquor?  Most medicines I've encountered has been measured in mL or mG. [...]

Also interestinginly OT, there's an entire Interstate highway in Arizona signed in metric km

  It's about time the U.S. converts.  The confusion dealing with this is huge when dealing with other countries, producing products, etc.  We're the last country on earth that hasn't switched, aside from a few isolated uses.  If the english/imperial system is superior, why are we the last on the planet still using it?  Is the rest of the planet wrong and we're the only one's right?  If that's the case, why hasn't anyone switched back???

Anyway, this has nothing to do with chip cards, aside from cementing the U.S. as the leader in being last in implementing anything.

burgerwars said:   
mapen said:   
NEDeals said:   
UncaMikey said:   
atikovi said:   We adopted the Metric System?
Interestingly enough, yes, we did, but only for wine and liquor.  [...]

Only wine and liquor?  Most medicines I've encountered has been measured in mL or mG. [...]

Also interestinginly OT, there's an entire Interstate highway in Arizona signed in metric km

  It's about time the U.S. converts.  The confusion dealing with this is huge when dealing with other countries, producing products, etc.  We're the last country on earth that hasn't switched, aside from a few isolated uses.  If the english/imperial system is superior, why are we the last on the planet still using it?  Is the rest of the planet wrong and we're the only one's right?  If that's the case, why hasn't anyone switched back???

Anyway, this has nothing to do with chip cards, aside from cementing the U.S. as the leader in being last in implementing anything.

  I think the main reason for status quo is going around and changing everything would take a huge expense in a large country like US.  With little money available for bridge repair and pavement repair, it wouldn't make much sense to blow highway funds replacing speed and distance signs at a fairly high unit cost (including install labor) for a questionable benefit. Even if phased in gradually, it would lead to signage confusion.  Today it is just as easy to dual label consumer products as putting one unit on, and electronic devices can display whatever unit you like very easily.

NEDeals said:   I think the main reason for status quo is going around and changing everything would take a huge expense in a large country like US.  With little money available for bridge repair and pavement repair, it wouldn't make much sense to blow highway funds replacing speed and distance signs at a fairly high unit cost (including install labor) for a questionable benefit. Even if phased in gradually, it would lead to signage confusion.But ... they already changed or added road signs with the failed conversion ... then they changed back or removed them. Talk about a waste of resources / money.
  

Perhaps I should have been clearer.  I was managing a liquor store in the late 70s, so this metric issue was a big deal at the time.  I think wine and liquor packaging is the only area in the US where the metric system is *required*, mandated by law, and any other system is illegal.  A winery or distillery can NOT sell a fifth or a half-gallon.

The fact that many/most items are labeled with both standard and metric sizes does not mean we've switched to the metric system. Medicine and machinery and food can be made/sold in any size the producer wants and labeled appropriately, that's all voluntary. But wine and liquor must be sold in metric sizes only.

Switching liquor/wine to the metric system was to be the first phase of the US conversion to metric in everything, but the public response to kilometers and liters was so bad the gov't backed off and dropped the effort. The wine/liquor producers liked the new metric system for obvious reasons so that conversion stuck.

This OT discussion is more interesting than the OP's question.  

 

In the late 70s the schools were actively teaching metric as part of the conversion, too. Nobody had issues with liters, its close enough to quart that it was painless. We even learned some of the less common multipliers. (deci/deca)

However the sticking point was when they got to speed/distance. Kilometers didn't go over so well because they were VERY different as a measure. Especially among the older folks.

We are nowhere near the only country using imperial -- its still used by a lot of Commonwealth countries.

RedWolfe01 said:   Kilometers didn't go over so well because they were VERY different as a measure. Especially among the older folks.
  And don't forget Celsius -- temperature conversion is even tougher than miles/kilometers, for us older folks and for everyone else.


https://xkcd.com/1643/
Disclaimer
UncaMikey said:   
RedWolfe01 said:   Kilometers didn't go over so well because they were VERY different as a measure. Especially among the older folks.
  And don't forget Celsius -- temperature conversion is even tougher than miles/kilometers, for us older folks and for everyone else.


Those two examples, temperature especially, are cases where the imperial units are more practical and understandable to humans.

 

mapen said:   
NEDeals said:   
UncaMikey said:   
atikovi said:   We adopted the Metric System?
Interestingly enough, yes, we did, but only for wine and liquor.  [...]

Only wine and liquor?  Most medicines I've encountered has been measured in mL or mG. [...]

Also interestinginly OT, there's an entire Interstate highway in Arizona signed in metric km

 That is probably for the non-American drivers heading up from and to Mexico.  It is interesting that it is all in km.  We still have a few of the signs around here from the failed conversion.  It is funny to see the signs for major cities ticking down in miles and then 15 miles or so out of the city, you will see one sign for the major city being 15 miles or 21 km away.

As for chips, don't see how the fraud is reduced. I have an Amex that the chip has stopped working. So to use it, I have to insert the card, get the error message, and do it twice more. Then the store will let me swipe the card (it is in the system - tried after two once, and had to do the 3 failed readings again).

So if someone clones the stripe portion of a card, and uses a damaged chip cloned card, they can bypass the chip security after 3 failed readings. Where is the security in that?

NoMoneyInMyWallet said:   
NEDeals said:   I think the main reason for status quo is going around and changing everything would take a huge expense in a large country like US.  With little money available for bridge repair and pavement repair, it wouldn't make much sense to blow highway funds replacing speed and distance signs at a fairly high unit cost (including install labor) for a questionable benefit. Even if phased in gradually, it would lead to signage confusion.
But ... they already changed or added road signs with the failed conversion ... then they changed back or removed them. Talk about a waste of resources / money.
  

  
Who is "they?"  Are you saying that "they" changed the road signs wholesale across the United States, or just a few isolated roads in Delaware or Arizona? 

MilleniumBuc said:   As for chips, don't see how the fraud is reduced. I have an Amex that the chip has stopped working. So to use it, I have to insert the card, get the error message, and do it twice more. Then the store will let me swipe the card (it is in the system - tried after two once, and had to do the 3 failed readings again).

So if someone clones the stripe portion of a card, and uses a damaged chip cloned card, they can bypass the chip security after 3 failed readings. Where is the security in that?

  
The security is supposed to be in the increased attention at a staffed terminal when programmed to allow a bypass.  But nothing is foolproof, even when security is generally increased.  

UncaMikey said:   
RedWolfe01 said:   Kilometers didn't go over so well because they were VERY different as a measure. Especially among the older folks.
  And don't forget Celsius -- temperature conversion is even tougher than miles/kilometers, for us older folks and for everyone else.

  
It's not very hard. Travel outside of the USA (almost anywhere) and you are immersed with Celsius weather reports and temperature reporting.  You learn real quick what is comfortable and what is not, just like anyone else.

Twenty years ago, US aviation finally went to Celsius temperature for official weather information.  It was a completely non-issue.  The only brain twists are when somebody tries to do numerical calculations to a different system.  But when you just learn that 26 degrees is quite comfortable, 40 is really hot, and 37 exactly is your average body temperature, your figure it out easily. 

NEDeals said:   
UncaMikey said:   
RedWolfe01 said:   Kilometers didn't go over so well because they were VERY different as a measure. Especially among the older folks.
  And don't forget Celsius -- temperature conversion is even tougher than miles/kilometers, for us older folks and for everyone else.

  
It's not very hard. Travel outside of the USA (almost anywhere) and you are immersed with Celsius weather reports and temperature reporting.  You learn real quick what is comfortable and what is not, just like anyone else.

Twenty years ago, US aviation finally went to Celsius temperature for official weather information.  It was a completely non-issue.  The only brain twists are when somebody tries to do numerical calculations to a different system.  But when you just learn that 26 degrees is quite comfortable, 40 is really hot, and 37 exactly is your average body temperature, your figure it out easily. 

   We travel outside the US a lot, 4-6 times a year, to places that use C°, and I know of the approximate comparisons, but I still have trouble.   Oh, and I much prefer 20° to 26°.

UncaMikey said:   
NEDeals said:   
UncaMikey said:   
RedWolfe01 said:   Kilometers didn't go over so well because they were VERY different as a measure. Especially among the older folks.
  And don't forget Celsius -- temperature conversion is even tougher than miles/kilometers, for us older folks and for everyone else.

  
It's not very hard. Travel outside of the USA (almost anywhere) and you are immersed with Celsius weather reports and temperature reporting.  You learn real quick what is comfortable and what is not, just like anyone else.

Twenty years ago, US aviation finally went to Celsius temperature for official weather information.  It was a completely non-issue.  The only brain twists are when somebody tries to do numerical calculations to a different system.  But when you just learn that 26 degrees is quite comfortable, 40 is really hot, and 37 exactly is your average body temperature, your figure it out easily. 

   We travel outside the US a lot, 4-6 times a year, to places that use C°, and I know of the approximate comparisons, but I still have trouble.   Oh, and I much prefer 20° to 26°.

  I always remember 28C = 82F (swapping the numbers around), and work from there.

I've been living in USA for 20 years. I could never get used to F. I still use C at home for A/C. All my weather web site settings are still in C.  Every repair guy who comes to repair our ACs (and unfortunately we need lots of repairs) gets a little surprise seeing that.

Years ago, when internet did not have this much info, I called Trane to change our thermostat's display from F to C. They wanted a huge amount of money to do that.

One of our AC's thermostat has total different programming for C and F (normally if you program the thermostat in F, it should work fine in C). Apparently even the engineers here don't know much about C (and this is a pretty good one with remote control and sensor).

And you can easily guess if I could get used to inch/feet/lb. They are terrible. I want to move to Australia sometimes just because of them.

Not adopting the metric system is incredibly wasteful- example: everyone has to buy two separate sets of tools such as wrenches: metric and SAE.

I wish our country would set a 20 year plan for switching to metric. We can keep temperature as Fahrenheit if we prefer that.

Skipping 56 Messages...
 I disagree.  You have complete confusion of a standards based organization based on science versus  a profit  company like Google, or Github or Amazon, which SELL things instead of produce standards.  . 
  People who work for NIST could not get jobs at Google, Amazon, Uber, FB, etc.



Disclaimer: By providing links to other sites, FatWallet.com does not guarantee, approve or endorse the information or products available at these sites, nor does a link indicate any association with or endorsement by the linked site to FatWallet.com.

Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

While FatWallet makes every effort to post correct information, offers are subject to change without notice.
Some exclusions may apply based upon merchant policies.
© 1999-2017